FE8 Mountless LTC Challenge

[Espinosa]

Challenge playlist:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbSv8zSDR9c26lYu02EA8IaBJcmStZg47

LTCing Sacred Stones over and over is fun, and this time I started a different challenge where the cast will differ significantly from the Girls Only run I recently finished.

The theme of this run is that no mounted units can be used for combat, infrastructure or even utility like visiting villages. That makes this another Sethless challenge, yet also lacking the top two draft picks in Franz and Vanessa, as well as other proficient mounted units (Kyle and Forde, Tana, Duessel, Eph!Cormag) and paths for unpromoted characters (Ranger!Gerik/Neimi, Mage Knight!Lute, Great Knight!Gilliam).

Though the lack of cavalry and fliers (besides Myrrh and Knoll's Phantoms way later) slows us down by default, this governing core behind all decisions made in this run is the accumulation of lowest turns by the end of the challenge. If the Female Only Challenge can finish the game in 93 turns, losing a dozen or so turns to a lowest turns run with a full party, how long will this one take? Let's play it out and see.

First video, showing Prologue to Chapter 2:

Turn counts:

P 2
C1 5
C2 5
C3 6
C4 4
C5 4
C5x 11
C6 3
C7 4
C8 7
C9 6
C10 5
C11 5
C12 7
C13 2
C14 7
C15 3
C16 1
C17 1
C18 5
C19 1
C20 1
Fin 2

Promotions:

C6 Ross - Pirate
C9 Gilliam - General
C9 Artur - Sage
C9 Ross - Berserker
C14 Garcia - Hero
C15 Gerik - Hero
C15 Moulder - Bishop
C16 Knoll - Summoner

Stat boosters:

C5 Dragonshield - Artur
C5 Secret Book - Ross
C7 Energy Ring - Artur
C8 Angelic Robe - Artur
C9 Goddess Icon - Artur
C10 Secret Book - Ross
C12 Energy Ring - Artur
C14 Energy Ring - Ross
C15 Swiftsole - Ross

Something to seriously think about is which units to focus on and which route to take.

Ephraim's routes doesn't have the rivers and mountains that prolong the time spent in some of the Eirika route chapters; on the other hand, Eirika's offers faster access to Gerik, Tethys and Innes, as well as Saleh, whereas the early access to Duessel and Cormag is meaningless on this run.

I'm not yet sure but I think Pirate/Berserker Ross can speed up the Eirika route maps that require a flier for a quick completion. Then again, Zerker Ross might need quite a bit of time to cross some of those cliffs (namely in chapter 10 anyway).

Edited July 21, 2015 by Snoop Dogg

[Nicolas]

How many turns do you predict I will take?

Subzero.

And Ephraim Route, because Ephraim Route is awesome (Father and Son )

[SB.]

Predicting Artur or Tethys for MVP, honestly.

Definitely Eirika route, Ephraim mode LTC sucks without flight.

[Espinosa]

Artur hasn't gained any defence yet (as of C5x) which makes me sad because I can't just throw him on a fort in the first Fog of War map which is perfect for getting somebody 1-3 levels (depending on potential to survive an enemy phase and/or ORKO). He's the reason why I'm neglecting Lute on this run though - just the C4 action gives him a big advantage over Lute. He grows magic with more difficulty compared to Lute though (and speed too I suppose) and low luck means not so much the danger of eating a crit but lower avo in general (Lute was an excellent dodgetank in the desert on my recentest run).

You know who this run's dark hose just might be? ...Colm. He's got 6 move is the most mobile of the unpromoted units, so it could well be the case that to get the lowest turn counts I need to seriously raise him. His stats + E swords really disgust me, and I can't fathom seriously raising him. Still, before Artur/Ross promote/Innes and Gerik join, I'm out of 6-move units capable of combat so even if he's not my entire frontline (lol Colm being a frontliner) he should have some unique utility just because of the extra move. You'll see what I mean when I show off my chapter 5 clear, though.

[SB.]

I'm guessing it's Colm kills Saar?

[PKL]

Good luck. I expect something below 120. If I had to guess, 110-115 range.

[Espinosa]

I'm guessing it's Colm kills Saar?

No but close enough lol. I guess I could get Colm to sufficient strength (w/ Armorslayer) and D swords by then, but that comes at the expense of poorer everyone else, which shows in rout maps and just generally overpowering the earlygame opposition. He still has base strength entering chapter 6 but I haven't been entirely neglecting him.

In chapter 6, Colm needs +4 str above base to 4HKO Novala with an Iron Sword (only thing that doesn't weigh him down), which could be used in a 3-turn.

However, I still think chapter 6 could be 3-turned even with a crappy Colm - still working on it.

I think long rescuechains will be the trademark of this run, since you lack Canto and high move units. Too bad this game lacks FE5's takegive mechanic.

[ZemZem]

Touhous is the only answer.

Good luck, buddy. I expect full use of DA BOULDA.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Ephraim never promotes hype

[Espinosa]

For people who voted Hero Crest for Garcia/Joshua, what's your reason Gerik doesn't get to use it first? Joshua never gets 2-range (though his bosskilling should be good until endgame but so should Ross's). I have two scenarios in mind: either Garcia/Joshua have a lot of action until chapter 11 OR we want to harvest Gerik's unpromoted level-ups which pretty much means he can't specialise in axes longterm. I think you know something I don't.

Good luck, buddy. I expect full use of DA BOULDA.

Moulder was MVP of chapter 5. Well, maybe not really but he ended up doing some unorthodox things.

Chapter 6 got 3-turned as expected. Not much space to harvest an enemy phase on the fort but you can't have everything.

It does look like Eirika's route is the way to go. Without fliers, how long does it even take for the Mogalls to come to you in Phantom Ship? And Ephraim's first map might be longer than Eirika's regardless of being entirely indoors, and who knows how quickly Pirate Ross will cross the sea (he could/should carry a buddy along too to assist with the rout)? There's also the issue of the Ocean Seal being out of reach in Eph's C9, and I'm putting a lot of faith into Ross's longterm use (I think he could be a preferrable bosskiller to Myrrh due to Garm, strength cap and +crit).

[PKL]

I voted Garcia because I forgot Gerik existed :P. But anyway, Garcia might not be a bad idea either. Considering he will have better axe rank for Garm and I find he doubles 80% of the game with his bad spd anyway. Slap him a Garm and he can double another 15%. But my experience is draft-based with him so idk if this will be the same.

[Hawk King]

Eirika's route

105 turns

Unless Garcia is massively SPD blessed Gerik should take the crest. Not necessarily right away though. Joshua is crap.

Ross and Artur will be the MVPs.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

How are you doing 5x btw?

[Espinosa]

When I get Garm I barely have any enemies remaining to double though, right? Besides the endgame bosses that is. I guess there's a good chance that I will have two Heroes in Garcia AND Gerik? We'll see. Garcia + Ross trading Garm to beat Fomortiis sounds fun though.

Gilliam's closest to promotion right now but I really don't feel like focusing my exp allocation on him at all - even though having him move without lagging behind would be nice.

Question: if I force Murray to unequip his Steel Sword and attack with Javelin instead, will Halberd's damage rise by exactly six points? That should be an OHKO then (50 hit > 20 hit too lol). I think I might be able to 4-turn chapter 7 with the Energy Ring stolen but I'm not sure yet. I wish Colm had higher Con, haha.

edit: 5x was done with Ephraim solo. 11 turns, hot level-ups (but who cares since he only appears in C15).

Edited September 25, 2013 by Espinosa

[Hawk King]

WTA is factored and then effective MT so yes, it should go up by 6 points.

A 2nd Garm user is useless. Ross will double Fomortis so it will be better to refresh him with Tethys than it would be to trade Garm to someone else.

[Espinosa]

Chapter 8 seems to be the first map where lots of turns will be lost (Artur is L7, Neimi is L1 and Gilliam L9 though Gilliam would be just another 5 move unit anyway). I have a feeling I might regret not having trained Colm well (he's L5 with E swords and can't exactly fight or take hits very well). We'll see what I can do - I managed to get away with a crappy Colm in chapter 6 too, but this one will be much tougher (namely, Eirika being the only one able to damage the boss, though I guess Josh with the Armorslayer would do a good job if I got him there on time).

I'm also looking at the map of chapter 10 and I doubt having Ross peakwalk can cut any turns off - he can only move one square on the mountains. Having him with 6 move should speed up the chapter's completion regardless, though. Promoting Artur for chapter 9 seems like a good idea too, what with having a crappy Colm, but I kinda want him to grow more unpromoted magic (and the other stats too since he's quite scrubby at this point).

[PKL]

Needs moar vids ;_;

I demand them.

Innes will be a bro when you get him.

[Espinosa]

Patience, I've been recording everything so I'll put something together soon.

Looking forward to Innes too - this just might be the perfect run for him to shine in. Wish he came a map earlier though (or two lol).

[Espinosa]

Chapter 3 and 4 in 6 and 4 turns respectively.

[Carter]

Do you get Lute, even if you skip the village in Chapter 4?

[X-Naut]

Yeah, she auto-joins at the end if you didn't visit the village.

[Carter]

Oh good.

Because at first, I was like "WHAT?! YOU SKIPPED LUTE!"

[ZemZem]

Playable characters who start off as NPCs in FE8 always join at the end of the chapter if they survive. Marisa, though, joins at the end of Chapter 12 Ephraim's route if she survives (she's an enemy) and Ewan was recruited. I believe that's the only case.

Anyway, I wish you went Ephraim's route, Espinosa. :<

[Refa]

Playable characters who start off as NPCs in FE8 always join at the end of the chapter if they survive. Marisa, though, joins at the end of Chapter 12 Ephraim's route if she survives (she's an enemy) and Ewan was recruited. I believe that's the only case.

Anyway, I wish you went Ephraim's route, Espinosa. :<

Orson also recruits himself if he survives the end of Chapter 16.

[Espinosa]

Downsides of going with Ephraim playing experience-wise:

- no Innes for 5 chapters

- Ocean Seal too far away in chapter 9 resulting in Ross not promoting until chapter 15

- Cormag and Duessel's existence does not matter

- Saleh and Gerik absent in 3 more maps

More downsides related to lowturning:

- Tethys joins late which hinders the staff rank growth

- Eph is too heavy to be carried around by Colm and promoted Artur

- All maps are longer due to no mounts

- Phantom Ship could take forever if the Mogalls in the corners of the map do not move (and to my knowledge they don't, at least for a while)

I guess the main reason to go with Ephraim is the difficulty of some of his maps which makes it interesting, plus... this:

(what Ephraim looks like after 7x - you'll see how this happened in the next video - too bad he only makes use of these stats in two maps)

I'd probably consider going with Ephraim if I had a good idea what the Mogall AI in the Phantom Ship is like, and also if his maps were better suited for an infantry army.