Mia or Zihark?

[Brendor]

I'm thinking of starting a new game but I don't know if I should go with Mia or Zihark as the Swordmaster. I never used Mia so I don't really know if she's good. I've heard people say she's fast but has shit strength. My Ziharks have always been good and I wanna try someone new but I'm not sure if the trade is worth it.

Inb4: use both

Inb4: use Stefan

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I know personal experience means jack, but for all of my runs, even with Mia's joining time advantage, by the time I get Zihark, she's still doing around four damage. I'd say go with Zihark.

[Irysa]

PoR is not very difficult and you can easily fix Mia's str with BEXP if you're worried about it. Use her if you want to.

[Knight]

Mia hits like an insect, I much prefer Zihark.

[Snowy_One]

Go with Mia. Zihark's got no useful skills and Vantage kicks serious ass.

[PKL]

Go with Mia. Zihark's got no useful skills and Vantage kicks serious ass.

[BrightBow]

Vantage is a funny skill. It's going to trigger in any fight of the user on enemy phase... and yet it's effectively useless since the outcome of a battle will only change if the enemy dies on the first hit.

Which won't happen most of the time. Especially when it involves Mia's noodle arms.

Edited December 6, 2013 by BrightBow

[Shadow Mir]

Zihark. Mia may have Vantage, but it means bugger all unless the enemy's weak enough to kill before they attack (which, since it's Mia, aka she who lacks the strength to make that hit count, won't happen much).

Edited December 6, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Snowy_One]

Which is the reason why you combo it with other skills. Mia can combo it well with adept and wrath (and guard for a defensive tilt) while Zihark needs to take the far more valuable vantage skill to match her, and if you want anything other than vantage/adept on him the cost skyrockets.

The cost of getting a good Mia is one cheap skill and maybe a STR band.

The cost of a good Zihark is one great skill, possibly a second, and he still comes in inferior.

See, here's the thing. Mia can support Rhys and Ilyana to make up her STR gap, but that support ALSO applies to MAG. So a SS-wielding Mia is certainly not impossible (though you'd have to build for it). Worst comes to worst, you've just got an extra healer/siege tomer to boot.

In order for Zihark to be good he NEEDS a Muarim support. Not wants, NEEDS. Mia's got some flexibility since all she has to do is tie with Zihark to surpass him due to extra chapters, and she has multiple ways to do so. Zihark, in order to pass Mia, needs to put a unit on his team which suffers the Laguz Steel-weapon curse (they're effectivally stuck wielding steel weapons the entire game) and either has to work with the transform gauge or take the valuable band.

Either supports don't matter and Mia wins since she's got a much lower overall cost and higher payout, if a higher initial cost, or supports matter and Mia's support flexibility wins the day.

Either way, Mia wins.

[Shadow Mir]

Which is the reason why you combo it with other skills. Mia can combo it well with adept and wrath (and guard for a defensive tilt) while Zihark needs to take the far more valuable vantage skill to match her, and if you want anything other than vantage/adept on him the cost skyrockets.

The cost of getting a good Mia is one cheap skill and maybe a STR band.

The cost of a good Zihark is one great skill, possibly a second, and he still comes in inferior.

See, here's the thing. Mia can support Rhys and Ilyana to make up her STR gap, but that support ALSO applies to MAG. So a SS-wielding Mia is certainly not impossible (though you'd have to build for it). Worst comes to worst, you've just got an extra healer/siege tomer to boot.

In order for Zihark to be good he NEEDS a Muarim support. Not wants, NEEDS. Mia's got some flexibility since all she has to do is tie with Zihark to surpass him due to extra chapters, and she has multiple ways to do so. Zihark, in order to pass Mia, needs to put a unit on his team which suffers the Laguz Steel-weapon curse (they're effectivally stuck wielding steel weapons the entire game) and either has to work with the transform gauge or take the valuable band.

Either supports don't matter and Mia wins since she's got a much lower overall cost and higher payout, if a higher initial cost, or supports matter and Mia's support flexibility wins the day.

Either way, Mia wins.

And Mia requires tethering two mages to her (one of whom is bottom 3 in durability for the whole game) just to have anything I can call offence. This just reeks of your usual "give Mia everything she needs and sandbag Zihark to hell" BS I've seen for aeons. And I still think that SS Mia is laughable, so that ain't helping your case.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[PKL]

Zihark has a better skill, better strength and doesn't need shitty mages to support him in order to be good. Mia's advantage is just availability.

[ZemZem]

Yeah, Mia has Vantage. So what? Won't matter much when she can't really hit hard and isn't that durable.

Zihark's way better. His durability isn't that better, but at least his STR is superior and actually can take hits. Not saying Mia is bad, though.

[Dark Sage]

i wouldn't bother, mia and zihark both blow

[Komeiji Koishi]

I like my swordmasters, so it'd be tough to say which is better. But, on starting stats alone, Zihark wins, and the occasional adept strike helps out quite a bit, and Mia doesn't have that when you get her. Also, and I don't remember correctly, but I think Mia has less overall skill capacity than Zihark, but don't quote me on it.

[Jedi]

Like both for various reasons, but personal bias makes me lean Zihark

[Loki Laufeyson]

If you want a Swordie, i would say use the Z-man. Mia has strength issues which means she could wind up tinking things even after promotion. Zihark doesnt require a lot of BEXP or forges and (ridiculous) supports to get functional. Plus free Adept is nice.

[NinjaMonkey]

So a SS-wielding Mia is certainly not impossible

This is Path of Radiance, where weapon levels cap at S. Thus, an SS-wielding Mia is impossible...

[Florete]

PoR is not very difficult and you can easily fix Mia's str with BEXP if you're worried about it. Use her if you want to.

That.

I also find it interesting how people are talking like Zihark has so much more Str than Mia when she's only ever going to be a point or two behind. Her Str is hardly "shit," though it may seem so at first, but that's mostly because of her weapon.

[Samias]

This is Path of Radiance, where weapon levels cap at S. Thus, an SS-wielding Mia is impossible...

SS stands for Sonic Sword in this case.

Also I dislike both Mia and Zihark as both of them lack good 1-2 range (ugh Sonic Sword Mia) and lately I've gotten nothing but terribly str screwed Mia/Ziharks when I do use them. I'd rather use Boyd or Nephenee if I insisted on another foot unit. If I HAD to use a swordsman, Mia has better availability so I'm biased towards her. Just give her a better sword immediately.

[dondon151]

I also find it interesting how people are talking like Zihark has so much more Str than Mia when she's only ever going to be a point or two behind.

a point or two of str is a big difference.

[PuffPuff]

i wouldn't bother, mia and zihark both blow

Stefan>>>>>Mia/Zihark

Just give her a better sword immediately.

Don't forget a Seraph Robe. She will need it for her starting stats and 50% HP growth.

-----

I wouldn't say that one another is better. Zihark is better physically than Mia is and that Mia is better magically. Mia can make use upon the Sonic/Runeswords upon which Zihark cannot with his poor Mag growth. Since there are only 1~2 ranged swords in the game aside from the Ragnell, Zihark is going to have trouble with 1~2 ranged enemies upon which Mia will not. Zihark gets 5% more Str growth than Mia does as well as 10% more in Def. It'll make him a good choice against more dangerous foes due to him having Adapt and having his greatest asset above all else, Earth affinity. So, it's a matter of choice. Either choose better support/physical attacker and defender, ...or a better ranged weapon user with also better Res. It's your choice. The only thing about Stefan is that he doesn't cost you an Occult scroll like Mia/Zihark would. Stefan's bad luck means nothing when he has all around good stats in everything else. Plus, he has a chance to shine better after getting one Ashera Icon. (As I do care for crit chances among enemies.) But...of the two, I'd choose Mia for better 1~2 ranged combat. But...Stefan beats both of them anyway, so I usually use him. Plus his 20% Mag growth gives him an ok chance to do good at 1~2 ranged combat as well as having instant access to the Vague Katti.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Dark_Huntress

[Smiley Jim]

Ok, I could say that both are inferior to Stefan and be done with it, but I'll go through both of them, their pros and cons, and come up with a consensus.

[spoiler=Mia]

Pros:

+ Available earlier than Zihark

+ Vantage pairs well with many skills

+ Her affinity is better offensively than Zihark's

+ Has better magic and res (not like it matters)

Cons:

- Mediocre strength

- Crappy physical durability

- Requires being tethered to two low move, low durability units to have anything resembling an offensive game

- Vantage needs to be paired with other skills to be useful

[spoiler=Zihark]

Pros:

+ Good strength for his class

+ Adept is a better standalone skill than Vantage

+ His affinity is better defensively than Mia's

+ Zihark supports with more useful units than Rice and Ilyana (ironically, he also supports with Ilyana)

Cons:

- Available later than Mia

- Durability is below average (but still better than Mia's)

- Adept doesn't mix well with as many skills as Vantage

Uh, Big Z wins. Mia's negatives outweigh her positives, and while Zihark only has minute statistical advantages over her in strength and defense, those statistical advantages can make or break a unit (Like dondon said, a 1-2 advantage in attack can mean the difference between ORKOing something and not being able to do so.) I suppose you COULD use BEXP to make Mia better, but I can do the exact same thing with Zihark and make HIM better.

It doesn't change the fact that Stefan is superior to both of them anyway due to joining as a Lv8 pre-promote with ridiculous stats for his level, coming with a very strong weapon, and having Astra at base.

[Snowy_One]

The funny thing about Mia vs. Zihark debates is that the Zihark supporters are always hypocritical. ALWAYS!

I seriously don't get it. STR is an issue so Zihark wins? 'Fixing' Mia's STR is a simple matter of giving her either a band or an energy drop (both of which are less valuable than an entire single-use skill scroll) and Mia can get up to +4 additional attack from supports. This means that Mia WINS 'damage-dealing' by 2, not loses by 2 unless you staple Brom to Zihark to have him lose by only 1.

Zihark's Muarim support is valuable? Ignoring that Muarim becomes bad later on in the game (and is technically outdated the moment you can forge steel) Muarim needs to physically attack, unlike Rhys who has access to both ranged staves and tomes and it's PERFECTLY fine for Ilyana to hang around Zihark, but NEVER Mia and there are no problems at all with Brom being around Zihark. Yes, that is sarcasm. I've seen people decry keeping Rhys and Ilyana around Mia for movement reasons while, at the same time, claiming there is no problem with Brom or Ilyana being around Zihark.

Durability a problem? Mia is one of three sword-units who can make effective use of both the Sonic Sword and Runesword as well as vantage-crits killing ~20% of foes before they can even attack ALWAYS but Zihark's evade, dependent on Muarim mind you, is JUST fine, ignoring that a SS Mia not only deters enemies, but when combined with wrath can result in her crit-killing quite a few (and healing too if it's the RS). And that's not to mention the other skills that can be combined with vantage to make it awesome, like guard which is one of the worst vantage-combos, but still MILES better than anything Zihark can offer and activates 10-20% of the time, kind of like Muarim's support except always there even when Mia's supports aren't.

Here is the thing. Anything Zihark can do Mia can do better. Plain and simple. The question isn't 'which one is better' but 'is the extra cost of getting Mia to her best worth it'. Let me summarize it simply for you.

Mia, at her costliest, costs these resources (ignoring B/EXP for both).

- A Rhys/Ilyana support.

- A STR band.

- One of Wrath/Adept/guard.

- And optionally the magic-dusts/mage band (obviously can't be used in conjunction with the STR band) and SS if you want her to go ranged.

Zihark at his costliest costs.

- A Muarim/Ilyana support.

- Vantage

- Either Wrath or Guard if you don't want vantage/adept.

Mia at her strongest offers this.

- One of two strongest SM (26 STR compared to Zihark's 25 if he goes with Brom, Stefan's 26 if he supports Soren/Mordi, and Lucia's 19 STR).

- One of only three viable SS users (Tanith and Mist being the others).

- An easy wrath/vantage, easily the MOST broken skill-combo in the game for a swordmaster or anyone not named Ike (who has Aether and can fight the only two units who might be worth using a different combo on).

- Two alternate skill-set-ups if you don't like wrath/vantage.

- Is functionally more durable due to crit-kills and a non-reliance on avoid.

- Joins earlier to boot.

Meanwhile Zihark's advantage?

- If you strip away boths edges, he requires less work, even though his only real lead on Mia, STR, is negated by a solid forge.

Mia has the highest payoff of all the SM's. The only question is 'is she worth what it costs to get there'. In my eyes, the answer is a resounding 'yes'. Especially since 'tying' with Zihark is a simple matter of going 'oh, Mia has STR problems and there are all these bands and items which can boost STR. Maybe I should give one to her.' which is usually followed by a complete brain-fart on the behalf of Zihark supporters of 'But that's a resource that needs to be spent, even if I probably have no one else to spend it on and am not focusing on the optimal LTC and am just playing for fun, so Zihark is better because Mia is a woman and weak'. From there, it's all uphill in leaps and bounds for Mia. Not so much for Zihark.

[Shadow Mir]

I'll just pick this about piece by piece:

Mia requires:

-Two subpar units (especially one in particular) to have any noticeable offense

-Wrath (which even with, unless she's hogging Ilyana AND Rhys, won't even make a difference since she's rather weak, and it's not like critical hits are reliable otherwise; and that's ignoring the laundry list of enemies it means jack shit on)

-A magic weapon which she easily loses the competition for because Tanith can put it to better use

There's more, but I'll let someone else take over.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[PKL]

Don't forget: Wrath is ruled out because it comes in Chapter 18 and has a big IKE tag all over it. Unless you want a really crappy and difficult Berserk Ashnard fight. Even if she does get Wrath for some reason, it comes in Chapter 18 like I said, so that's Chapter 19 Wrath Mia at best. But zihark has been beating Mia in strength all this time. The argument that Mia can tie Zihark with a forge is so false, because I can just give that forge to Zihark and make him even better than her. Note that Zihark has Adept chances on every enemy, making his offense even better when compared to Mia's. Vantage is a crappy skill that needs her to be able to crit and OHKO with it. Mia critting everything she has to is a lot less likely to occur than Earth affinity avoids. Ugh, why am I even responding to these crazy arguments?

Edited December 7, 2013 by PKL