Design of the Falchion (and tyrfang)

[sirmola]

I Noticed some time ago that the Falchion of awakening has an entirely different design compared all other appearances. However, i just noticed that marth from the new super smash brothers uses the old design. Any ideas why either of these are so? Especialy the falchion. Why redesighn it when it had appeared that way in 6 games and you are trying to be nostalgic? Also, i noted that the awakening version of the tyrfing from FE4(the original version of which looks like the pre-awakening falchion) Was redesigned to look like the awakening Falchion. Do you think this lends credence to the theory that the tyrfing was reforged to become the Falchion between FE4 and FE1? (in which case the awakening version is from an alternate universe.)

[Knight]

I think the Falchion was updated to adjust to the more stylized art-style. A lot of the armour and designs in the game look less realistic and more fantastic, so they redesigned the Falchion for that. It's also explained in game that the Falchion has changed shape over a thousand years, different shape from the one Marth uses but the same blade. That's also why Marth's blade in Smash looks like the original, because that is the blade from Marth's game Shadow Dragon, not Awakening. As for Tyrfing, I don't know.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Knight

[HK Motendra]

With the exception of their old design, Tyrfing and Falchion are not related at all, due to their difference in origin. Falchion was forged from Naga, herself, while Tyrfing was a holy weapon wielded by Baldur. (Don't really know the details about Tyrfing, other than that)

[sirmola]

With the exception of their old design, Tyrfing and Falchion are not related at all, due to their difference in origin. Falchion was forged from Naga, herself, while Tyrfing was a holy weapon wielded by Baldur. (Don't really know the details about Tyrfing, other than that)

There is a fan theory that instead of creating the falchion from scratch, naga reforged the tyrfing. You occasionally see it brought up when the topic turns to wacky fire emblem theories, usually at around the same time as "nils and forseti are the same dragon". Note that the developers of awakening went out of their way to state that Chrom(and by extension marth) are decended from celice. The biggest disadvantage of this theory is probably how naga creates a falchion from scratch in SD(although that is technically noncanon, it could have happened).

Edited April 30, 2014 by sirmola

[HK Motendra]

There is a fan theory that instead of creating the falchion from scratch, naga reforged the tyrfing. You occasionally see it brought up when the topic turns to wacky fire emblem theories, usually at around the same time as "nils and forseti are the same dragon". Note that the developers of awakening went out of their way to state that Chrom(and by extension marth) are decended from celice.

Is there a source to this theory? The idea of it sounds interesting, given that there is indeed a connection between them, but the thing that strikes no to me is the fact that Falchion was made from Naga's own fang

[BrightBow]

With the exception of their old design, Tyrfing and Falchion are not related at all, due to their difference in origin. Falchion was forged from Naga, herself, while Tyrfing was a holy weapon wielded by Baldur. (Don't really know the details about Tyrfing, other than that)

And Baldur got his sword from a dragon too. So it's pretty much the same thing.

Now, the weapons are described more vaguely in FE4. They are merely said to be "weapon sealed with the power of their respective tribesmen". So technically we don't know if the weapon is made from a fang like with the Falchion. But since they look exactly the same, there is no reason to assume that the most obvious answer isn't the right one.

But the way of it's creation is a trivial difference either way. One way or another, it is a weapon containing the power of a dragon.

Edited April 30, 2014 by BrightBow

[RJWalker]

New Tyrfing looks awful. It really does.

[Booton]

New Tyrfing looks awful. It really does.

I'm not even sure why they felt the need to change the design in the first place. The Mystletainn and Balmung look really close to their original designs, then Tyrfing is just like... what.

[sirmola]

I'm not even sure why they felt the need to change the design in the first place. The Mystletainn and Balmung look really close to their original designs, then Tyrfing is just like... what.

That's what made me wonder in the first place. There are a few changes to legacy content. For example, Mjolnir (aka thorhammer) has a picture of a hammer on the cover, but this is a different league entierly.

[Roivann]

I thought that it might have had something to do with the fact that Tyrfing in its original design looked too "regular" for lack of a better word, and IS changed it to look more unique.

[Jotari]

There is a fan theory that instead of creating the falchion from scratch, naga reforged the tyrfing. You occasionally see it brought up when the topic turns to wacky fire emblem theories, usually at around the same time as "nils and forseti are the same dragon". Note that the developers of awakening went out of their way to state that Chrom(and by extension marth) are decended from celice. The biggest disadvantage of this theory is probably how naga creates a falchion from scratch in SD(although that is technically noncanon, it could have happened).

Does she create it? I thought she just kind of woke up and happened to have it and no one knew why.

[sirmola]

Does she create it? I thought she just kind of woke up and happened to have it and no one knew why.

Honestly, nobody died in my SD play-through, so i wouldn't know.

[Jotari]

I usually take that route. Pains me to kill Tiki but it only has the be for five minutes since she can instantly be brought back with the Aum Staff. More important than anything though is the ifinite weapon usage provided by the Star Sphere.

[RJWalker]

SD's second Falchion is not a concern since that's non-canon in FE12.

[VincentASM]

I'm not even sure why they felt the need to change the design in the first place. The Mystletainn and Balmung look really close to their original designs, then Tyrfing is just like... what.

In the Knights of Iris book, there's a comment next to the Tyrfing design that might be related.

Can't quite make it all out but I figured the design was meant to mimic the Falchion's. That or the person was commenting on how the Tyrfing looks like the Falchion, but I reckon the former would probably make more sense.

[Crixler]

Falchion has actually had three different designs, not two. There's the classic Falchion, which was virtually identical to classic Tyrfing, the modern Falchion (FE11/12), and the Awakening Falchion. The classic Falchion to modern Falchion was pretty clearly a retcon. Meaning the classic Falchion design is not canon. It's strange that SSB is still using it. Then the Awakening Falchion, on the other hand, is not a retcon, and it's literally supposed to have had its appearance altered (from the FE11 version) in-universe.

Tyrfing is a bit more mysterious. Its appearance in Awakening is very different than classic Tyrfing. But was that a retcon, or was it, like Falchion, reforged between games? If it was reforged, what did it look like canonically before that? Like classic Tyrfing? Or maybe like modern Falchion for whatever reason? Maybe something else entirely?

Personally, I like to think that Tyrfing was reforged between games, and that prior to that it still retained its classic appearance. That way those who are into nostalgia still have the old design, and it would then be completely distinct from Falchion.

But I imagine we may never know unless IS remakes FE4.

[ClassyWolf]

Falchion has actually had three different designs, not two. There's the classic Falchion, which was virtually identical to classic Tyrfing, the modern Falchion (FE11/12), and the Awakening Falchion. The classic Falchion to modern Falchion was pretty clearly a retcon. Meaning the classic Falchion design is not canon. It's strange that SSB is still using it. Then the Awakening Falchion, on the other hand, is not a retcon, and it's literally supposed to have had its appearance altered (from the FE11 version) in-universe.

Tyrfing is a bit more mysterious. Its appearance in Awakening is very different than classic Tyrfing. But was that a retcon, or was it, like Falchion, reforged between games? If it was reforged, what did it look like canonically before that? Like classic Tyrfing? Or maybe like modern Falchion for whatever reason? Maybe something else entirely?

Personally, I like to think that Tyrfing was reforged between games, and that prior to that it still retained its classic appearance. That way those who are into nostalgia still have the old design, and it would then be completely distinct from Falchion.

But I imagine we may never know unless IS remakes FE4.

... do you know what retcon means? because I would simply call the modern falchion a redesign, because if you look at the cutscenes:

anri in 11/12: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120223022321/fireemblem/images/thumb/c/c9/AnriMedeus.jpg/640px-AnriMedeus.jpg

marth 11/12: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090824225450/fireemblem/images/6/6c/Marth_leaping_to_strike.png

It's the same sword, and no reforging, it's just an design uppdate, really I find the awakening design wierder because of the hole that appears in the balde even though it's supposed to be indestructable...

And the classic falchion is just the old design before the uppdate, I don't think you can call it a retcon.

[sirmola]

Falchion has actually had three different designs, not two. There's the classic Falchion, which was virtually identical to classic Tyrfing, the modern Falchion (FE11/12), and the Awakening Falchion. The classic Falchion to modern Falchion was pretty clearly a retcon. Meaning the classic Falchion design is not canon. It's strange that SSB is still using it. Then the Awakening Falchion, on the other hand, is not a retcon, and it's literally supposed to have had its appearance altered (from the FE11 version) in-universe.

Tyrfing is a bit more mysterious. Its appearance in Awakening is very different than classic Tyrfing. But was that a retcon, or was it, like Falchion, reforged between games? If it was reforged, what did it look like canonically before that? Like classic Tyrfing? Or maybe like modern Falchion for whatever reason? Maybe something else entirely?

Heh. I never noticed that.

Personally, I like to think that Tyrfing was reforged between games, and that prior to that it still retained its classic appearance. That way those who are into nostalgia still have the old design, and it would then be completely distinct from Falchion.

But I imagine we may never know unless IS remakes FE4.

I'm not sure that the developers though that through. They probably decided to update the tyrfing just to keep the reference intact. I would guess that it has been reforged too though.

EDIT: I just realized that the falchion looks really simeler to the mark of naga:

HIgher res picture of the falchion: http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140219101352/fireemblem/images/a/a4/Falchion_%28FE13_Artwork%29.png

Note the teardrop hole, the two side pointy bits, and the triangle underneath. Some people have probably already figured this one out, But this goes part of the way toward explaining the odd design(but not why they chose this pattern).

Edited May 2, 2014 by sirmola

[Crixler]

... do you know what retcon means? because I would simply call the modern falchion a redesign, because if you look at the cutscenes:

anri in 11/12: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120223022321/fireemblem/images/thumb/c/c9/AnriMedeus.jpg/640px-AnriMedeus.jpg

marth 11/12: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090824225450/fireemblem/images/6/6c/Marth_leaping_to_strike.png

It's the same sword, and no reforging, it's just an design uppdate, really I find the awakening design wierder because of the hole that appears in the balde even though it's supposed to be indestructable...

And the classic falchion is just the old design before the uppdate, I don't think you can call it a retcon.

I do know what the word retcon means, though perhaps it wasn't the best word for this situation. All of what you just said is consistent with what I was trying to say.

Heh. I never noticed that.

I'm not sure that the developers though that through. They probably decided to update the tyrfing just to keep the reference intact. I would guess that it has been reforged too though.

EDIT: I just realized that the falchion looks really simeler to the mark of naga:

HIgher res picture of the falchion: http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140219101352/fireemblem/images/a/a4/Falchion_%28FE13_Artwork%29.png

Note the teardrop hole, the two side pointy bits, and the triangle underneath. Some people have probably already figured this one out, But this goes part of the way toward explaining the odd design(but not why they chose this pattern).

Yeah, I noticed the Mark of Naga in the sword design, as well. It's pretty neat. And it makes me wonder if Tyrfing's Awakening design might be based on a possible mark of Baldur (or of whatever Baldur's dragon was named (not too well versed in Jugdrali lore)).

[sirmola]

Yeah, I noticed the Mark of Naga in the sword design, as well. It's pretty neat. And it makes me wonder if Tyrfing's Awakening design might be based on a possible mark of Baldur (or of whatever Baldur's dragon was named (not too well versed in Jugdrali lore)).

All we know about that dragon is that he wasn't named baldur or tyrfang(based on a developer interview). We know from an endgame conversation that Fala's dragon was named salamander(a reference to the name of the fire dragon tribe in fe1), and the same interview says that holsety, naga, and lopetus are the only dragons that share their name with their holy weapon. That is all of our dragon name information.

Edited May 4, 2014 by sirmola