Yume Nikki Mafia - Day 3

[Shin]

I find Poly and Shin's interactions interesting as they both vote for Eli (who attacked Shin), and both defend the other from another person attacking them by trying to discredit their cases.

Fun fact: I actually said your case on Poly had some validity! Dat discrediting! I can definitely see where you're getting this view from, but I'm still reading neutral on Poly, and I'm definitely not going to scumread myself... or am I?

[Eurykins]

Whoa, I apparently didn't load page 4 while doing my check/reads. I'm so good at this!

Marth seems... well, I'm not having an easy time of reading him.

On the one hand, he had a perfectly reasonable reaction to Elie's test, which was just weird. And I think the desire to pressure both Eli and Refa is plausible at this stage of the game, especially .

On the other... I don't get the whole thing with him agreeing with your vote at all. As well, his explanation for the Refa vote on Elie being scummy is kind of... bad, I guess? Especially since he kept his vote parked on Elie as a pressure vote, which makes no sense fmpov on ED1.

Overall, I'm null on him, but I feel like he's more likely to flip scum than town at this point. Still more comfortable with my vote on Elie for now, though.

Blah. More wishy-washy vibes imo, and the last line just feels/sounds really bad. "More likely to flip scum than town at this point", but still choosing to vote for Elie over him? Is Elie more prone to flipping scum than Marth?

So I'm gone just touch on some things for now.

Elie: Horrible test. But I don't think it's an alignment tell.
Raymond: Shitty Marth vote. A bit hypocritical about Kay's lack of reasoning with their vote.
Marth: Really wtf is that Refa reasoning. And how the hell does Eli's test you he's scum. And then just as a general question, why did you ask about Fake Claims?
However I don't think any of these are valid reasons to vote so I'm going to continue looking. I'll be on for another 20 minutes then I got a doctors appointment.

...Wat? How are the bolded reasons above not valid reasons for voting someone? Bad votes/reasons behind said votes? Having bad cases (that could result in them voting people)? How... what is this even?

(I understand about RL stuffs, and that's fine. But I still don't understand how, in the list of people/reads you had, none of them warranted a vote of any kind from you. That logically makes no sense at all.)

Man, Eury should stop ninjaing me after being ninja'd by me... NINJACEPTION.

ALL THE NINJAS, YO~!

I find Poly and Shin's interactions interesting as they both vote for Eli (who attacked Shin), and both defend the other from another person attacking them by trying to discredit their cases.

And since people keep getting this wrong, Mitsuki's "sheeping" vote on Refa was based off a joke how if I'm scum I bus hard (and lead people to my buddies) and as town I'm not awful as town too, so sheeping me is a good strategy.

*shrugs* Joke or not, still was an easy post/vote. (That and it seems that this D1 is just exploding with sheeps, which kinda annoys me and screams lack of effort from most.) In addition:

My vote was mostly a joke, but since SB is a good player when he's town and likes bussing his scumteam when he's scum I think it's a valid strategy to sheep him. I don't think he'd be bussing his scumteam at that point though.

So there was some seriousness to said vote, AND she's doing so because she feels like she can/should do so as a valid gameplay (which I disagree with). That's what bugged me even more wrt said vote/post.

[Elieson]

Remember that funky timezone I live in? That was literally all I could get posted in my super short lunch break!

Eli's vote thing was clearly a joke, I'm surprised people were silly enough to even consider it anything meaningful. With a fair portion of the game not producing anything meaningful, I'm hard pressed to see how Eli can justify a vote on me over say scorri. Dat vote be scummy, looks like you're trying to get an easy wagon going on someone who hasn't posted much, it's got less conviction than a jury full of politically apathetic gibbons! Whilst Eli's test is by no means a scum tell, the sudden tunnel on me is.

Besides, the true colour of town is salmon pink, get it right, man. Mitsuki, learn to sheep harder! Also form an opinion on something! Start small, like global warming or whether bow ties are cool or not! And since you've posted again, you should really say why you're keeping your vote, is it still a joke or are you being serious?

Marth's vote on Eli could have had some sound basis, but the fact that Eli "might not know the colour" is a pretty weak case. Also the "Eli will get a wagon, regardless of alignment" is a horrible way to justify things.

Currently both Marth and Eli look pretty bad, although it'd make no sense whatsoever for both of them to be scum, unless this is one of Eli's schemes gone wrong.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

Whilst SB has some valid points, I disagree with Poly being scummy, it feels more like Poly's standard "derp" play.

All day everyday!

Eli's case on me revolved around me not posting at a time where I'm likely to be busy. To forget all other reads to follow one of inactivity looks pretty poor. I think it would be fair to call that a weak case by any means. Whilst I don't get why Poly would want to defend me, I think it's fair to act on Eli's bad vote.

##Unvote

##Vote Shin

Seriously. it was like 2 pages of one liners. There's nothing worth saying?

I never knew one line could fluster somebody so much.

Also, saying "B-b-but Bro, scorri's being an inactive chump, so why don't you vote for her!" doesn't make you less voteworthy by comparison. Her only post was the third post in the game, when Marth out'd BBM as Hitler, and Scarlet felt obligated to greet me. You may disagree with my reason to vote for you, but there is literally no reason at all to even vote for scorri given the situation.

[SB.]

Fun fact: I actually said your case on Poly had some validity! Dat discrediting! I can definitely see where you're getting this view from, but I'm still reading neutral on Poly, and I'm definitely not going to scumread myself... or am I?

You DID discredit my case, by just saying "it's Poly". That never stopped you with other players like bear before, so why does it matter here?

[Kay]

Remember that funky timezone I live in? That was literally all I could get posted in my super short lunch break!

Eli's vote thing was clearly a joke, I'm surprised people were silly enough to even consider it anything meaningful. With a fair portion of the game not producing anything meaningful, I'm hard pressed to see how Eli can justify a vote on me over say scorri. Dat vote be scummy, looks like you're trying to get an easy wagon going on someone who hasn't posted much, it's got less conviction than a jury full of politically apathetic gibbons! Whilst Eli's test is by no means a scum tell, the sudden tunnel on me is.

Besides, the true colour of town is salmon pink, get it right, man. Mitsuki, learn to sheep harder! Also form an opinion on something! Start small, like global warming or whether bow ties are cool or not! And since you've posted again, you should really say why you're keeping your vote, is it still a joke or are you being serious?

Marth's vote on Eli could have had some sound basis, but the fact that Eli "might not know the colour" is a pretty weak case. Also the "Eli will get a wagon, regardless of alignment" is a horrible way to justify things.

Currently both Marth and Eli look pretty bad, although it'd make no sense whatsoever for both of them to be scum, unless this is one of Eli's schemes gone wrong.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

Whilst SB has some valid points, I disagree with Poly being scummy, it feels more like Poly's standard "derp" play.

Why vote Eli over Marth, though? And is it scummy that he wants to pressure inactives, or scummy that he voted for you in particular?

[Shin]

Also, saying "B-b-but Bro, scorri's being an inactive chump, so why don't you vote for her!" doesn't make you less voteworthy by comparison. Her only post was the third post in the game, when Marth out'd BBM as Hitler, and Scarlet felt obligated to greet me. You may disagree with my reason to vote for you, but there is literally no reason at all to even vote for scorri given the situation.

It's just showing how weak your case was, one vote, two lines. I feel you're trying to use this as a means to justify your vote, but the fact remains that you voted me on the basis of inactivity, which barely differentiated me from quite a few players, yet I was the one you decided to pursue.

Refa, Marth's case was weak, but Eli's pulled this out of nowhere with virtually no justification. My issue is less that he voted me than he voted for me over all that was going on for an extremely bad point.

SB, it's possible to disagree with someone without totally discarding their case. I accepted the logic behind your reasons, but I disagreed and stated that it felt otherwise to me. It's the beginning of the first day, where as with DA BEAR, he tends to hang around for a while without actually doing anything by like day four. Context, bro!

[Shin]

Rage, stoopid quote tag. I also feel that using a scorri as an example is an attempt to try and imply that I think scorri's scum on the basis of nothing, nice try, Eli-bro.

[SB.]

Rage, stoopid quote tag. I also feel that using a scorri as an example is an attempt to try and imply that I think scorri's scum on the basis of nothing, nice try, Eli-bro.

What. How is it impossible that scorri was just being used as an example?

And no, town!Shin generally doesn't care who he's attacking that much. In Healer you spent a while voting for Vennobenu when he was playing his first game, so this special treatment for Poly being Poly just seems wrong to me.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

[Shin]

I hardly see how being neutral on Poly whilst you think he's scummy is wild enough for you to consider me scum for it. You're also relying on my town meta... which I didn't realise even existed! I just assumed I had scummy and actually scum meta!

[Elieson]

Rage, stoopid quote tag. I also feel that using a scorri as an example is an attempt to try and imply that I think scorri's scum on the basis of nothing, nice try, Eli-bro.

How...I don't...Are you seriously...

You were the one who said "Why are you voting for scorri instead of me!?" (unless you count me saying "scorri confirmed for being scorri" as actually meaning something).

[Shin]

What. How is it impossible that scorri was just being used as an example?

It was very possible for Eli to then go on and ask why I think scorri's worth voting over myself.

[Shin]

How...I don't...Are you seriously...

You were the one who said "Why are you voting for scorri instead of me!?" (unless you count me saying "scorri confirmed for being scorri" as actually meaning something).

I said "over SAY scorri" as an example. You interpreted that as "Wah, Shin think you should vote scorri instead of Shin."

[Elieson]

How...I don't...Are you seriously...

You were the one who said "Why are you voting for scorri instead of me!?" (unless you count me saying "scorri confirmed for being scorri" as actually meaning something).

why aren't

I really can't words today

[SB.]

It's not only the buddying, that's only part of it. As far as your Eli suspicion goes, you're just throwing all kinds of reasons for him to be mafia to see what sticks. Marth is one of your other suspicions, but the post where you call him out doesn't even properly explain why he's scummy. And as far as Mitsuki goes, your suspicion there is literally based on an RVS vote, which is weak. Very weak. That's why I'm voting you over Poly.

[Shin]

It's not only the buddying, that's only part of it. As far as your Eli suspicion goes, you're just throwing all kinds of reasons for him to be mafia to see what sticks. Marth is one of your other suspicions, but the post where you call him out doesn't even properly explain why he's scummy. And as far as Mitsuki goes, your suspicion there is literally based on an RVS vote, which is weak. Very weak. That's why I'm voting you over Poly.

My response to Mitsuki was in jest after the sheeping joke was explained. My Eli suspicions are for his weak vote with poor reasoning, and the misrepresentation of what I said, he chose to try and imply that I suggested scorri was a more viable lynch candidate than myself. But please do cherry pick your reasons, the harvest is apparently lacking!

My post says Marth's suspicion on Eli for the reaction test and the colour thing were bad, I hope that's condensed things for you. I've also never suggested that you vote Poly over myself, again, something you've decided to infer for some reason! You mention my defense of Poly, but you're making quite a deal of defending Eli!

[SB.]

Eli's vote wasn't particularly solid but your vote back on him just seemed to be completely reactionary and it doesn't look like he's misinterpreting what you've said at all to me, and wrt the scorri point, it seems like you're voting Eli for what he could've done, rather than what he has done. If I was a dayvig and it was possible for me to shoot the claimed cop, would that make me scum?

I kinda misinterpreted the Marth part though because of you saying his vote could've been good (would like you to elaborate on that a bit though, just because it was on Eli, or ???) so my bad there.

My Eli defense is coming from the fact that I'm hard townreading him, which is kind of different to the interactions of you and Poly.

[Mitsuki]

The amount of laziness in this game already in ED1 is legendary. Ezpz vote much? Try harder.

It was a joke? Also read all of what I say and not just whatever you can point out as scummy, you'll see that I said that I don't think SB would be bussing at that time, so I wasn't applying the strategy thing.

You even quoted it...

I kind of agreed with SB's reasoning, but I didn't think it was very strong. I wouldn't have voted if not for the sake of the joke, though.

How you've talked to me kind of angers me, I don't think we've ever talked and you already feel like you can treat me like that? I get it's your posting style but you should really stop it.

I don't like how Eury seems to be trying to paint me as scummy by what I see as misinterpretations of the facts. Is Eury usually like this?

From what I recall she likes to post a lot of not-so-strong stuff. I don't recall misinterpretations though, but I might be biased because this time it concerned me.

And since you've posted again, you should really say why you're keeping your vote, is it still a joke or are you being serious?

I was keeping my vote because I had no scumreads.

I don't like this post and this post by SB. I think it's scummy to say someone is scum like that because you don't really give any reasoning for it, which is easy and something scum would tend to do, as it's harder to come up with convincing wordings for the stuff they say. Also, it attempts to give the feeling of being casual with the game.

Regarding the second post, SB explained it here, but it still lacks the reasoning on why it would be scummy, it's just pointed out as something "interesting".

Also, associative reads when none of the players have flipped and this early in the game are bad.

Overall, SB's coming up with good reasoning most times (neutral) but other times it just feels like he's trying to paint people as scummy.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Also, is Shin usually like that? He seems to be taking this game very easy and making jokes all the time, and I don't know if that's scum trying to seem casual about what they're doing or just his posting style.

I hope I don't sound disrespectful because that's not my intention.

SB, I don't think Shin is suspecting me.

[SB.]

I don't like this post and this post by SB. I think it's scummy to say someone is scum like that because you don't really give any reasoning for it, which is easy and something scum would tend to do, as it's harder to come up with convincing wordings for the stuff they say. Also, it attempts to give the feeling of being casual with the game.

Regarding the second post, SB explained it here, but it still lacks the reasoning on why it would be scummy, it's just pointed out as something "interesting".

Also, associative reads when none of the players have flipped and this early in the game are bad.

Overall, SB's coming up with good reasoning most times (neutral) but other times it just feels like he's trying to paint people as scummy.

The first post was pretty much reaction fishing and based on a vague metaread due to Randa's listposting in SOH. His follow up didn't set off any alarms so I'm cool on him. Wrt associative reads, if I see something as scummy I'm going to call them out on it, and considering I saw buddying between two people who I felt were individually scummy and something that seemed off in Shin's post metawise to support it, I felt pretty good about it.

Associative reads have their place. If anyone bothered to look in ICBINSFMM4 they would've seen blatantly obvious buddying from the scumteam and probably could've caught Shinori and Euklyd as scum easily from that. I might not even be alive by the time that the reads become relevant either, so I don't see why pointing out associative reads is bad.

[Refa]

Okay, so what Raymond said about Elie was fair enough, but his Marth vote feels kind of bad because he tells Kay to "please expound" and then votes Marth for basically the exact same reason as her, but with a few more words behind it.

@Marth- okay I forgot about the initial vote. Why is Elie worse than Refa?

ex·pound

ikˈspound/

verb

1. present and explain (a theory or idea) systematically and in detail.

   "he was expounding a powerful argument"

Seriously, I don't even get what your issue is. He never said that Kay's vote was bad, so voting for the same reason isn't necessarily bad (considering that you haven't had any issues with Kay's vote, anyways).

Refa sounds overly paranoid with his last post

How?

randa did you roll scum again

dude you can just check the mafia qt if you're not sure

Morning guys~!

- WRT Elie:

~ Post #57 (Shin vote and other stuffs) sounds weird to me. You say Refa's overly paranoid in his last post (but don't elaborate), and then you vote for Shin based on the fact that he RVS voted himself? (I would also disagree that the 2 other pages prior to his post = meaningful content in itself, so I don't see the dire need for him or others to have jumped out of the gate with serious content with his first vote.) Seems really nitpicky and a really easy vote.

Self voting is pretty bad even if it was an RVS vote. Only reason I didn't vote Shin for it was because Shin (only other person I wouldn't vote for it is Polydeuces). Anyways, that wasn't even Elieson's reasoning, so I feel like you kind of missed the point there.

Refa, Marth's case was weak, but Eli's pulled this out of nowhere with virtually no justification. My issue is less that he voted me than he voted for me over all that was going on for an extremely bad point.

...What? Are you replying to me? Are you saying my Marth case was weak? I...don't understand...

I don't like this post and this post by SB. I think it's scummy to say someone is scum like that because you don't really give any reasoning for it, which is easy and something scum would tend to do, as it's harder to come up with convincing wordings for the stuff they say. Also, it attempts to give the feeling of being casual with the game.

Also, is Shin usually like that? He seems to be taking this game very easy and making jokes all the time, and I don't know if that's scum trying to seem casual about what they're doing or just his posting style.

I hope I don't sound disrespectful because that's not my intention.

-I don't think that's scummy unless he made a vote based on it. Prims does it all the time as town, for example (although I guess Prims does a lot of scummy things as town, but I stand by my initial reasoning on this one).

-It's Casual Tuesday in the scum team's office Yeah, he usually is. Generally moreso, in fact, but his being less casual doesn't really point to him being one alignment or the other.

Anyways, was never really bothered by Elieson and since RVS is over;

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

Not sure what to think of Shin. Like yeah, he's made some bad plays like a reactionary vote and SB brought up a good point about his meta but like...Shin tends to be a lot more forgettable as scum. It just doesn't feel right. Marth's bothering me the most ATM because of what I already said and his lack of a response since then despite being there. BBM's Scarlet suspicion seems really forced, I don't get it at all. Same goes for Eurykins' reads on Elieson and Mitsuki. Noone else is really pinging me though, what a pain in the ass. Scum, act scummier kthnxbye.

[Randa]

@ Eurykins: I don't think we need more votes being thrown around like party favors. Especially when the cause of distrust is two shitty votes barely out of RVS. If i remember correctly. Now that I have the time I'm going to try to catch up and reread.

[Shin]

Whilst I admit there was a degree of reactivity, Eli's vote still remains weak and I personally don't see how Town!Eli would be able to make a case like that. Also, I should really submit my posts, I've had this one for like an hour.

[Shin]

...What? Are you replying to me? Are you saying my Marth case was weak? I...don't understand...

You asked me to explain my case on Marth at some point... or at least I thought you did! Man, am I still high, bro?

[Randa]

So quick notes before I do a mega post.

Shin: Tunneling Eli IMO. But his tunneling is really just bringing up the same point(I think I'm kinda confused if you can't tell). Null/Minor Scum. Has an interesting moment where he and Poly seem to be buddying. Not sure what to make of that. Really depends on how one of them flips.

Marth: Definitely overreacted but I don't think its as bad as I originally thought. Null/Minor Scum.

Raymond: The votes bad. No doubt about it. And looking back I really don't even see him try to justify it. I do see him prod people for better reads, but I don't think that's an alignment tell. Scum. Would definitely like an explanation.

Eli: Don't think he's scum. Not sure he's town but I'm kinda solidly Null on him.

Also I'm kinda weary of BBM. I don't know why but I got a gut feeling.

Anyways time to dig up quotes. With no ISO's.

:(

[Randa]

Oh ok apparently it isn't modkillable.

Its green.

Now then , ##Unvote ##Vote: Elieson

I'd love to know your reasons.

Agreeing with SB's vote on Refa I mean

Because Eli played stupidly and regardless of his alignment one can expect a wagon on him. If Refa were to place a vote based on RVS he can just stick it there if a wagon builds up later for reasons many other would've stated.

aka easy vote

So the original vote isn't that bad. The Refa matter is still poorly handled but beating a dead horse there.

Please expound.

This doesn't accomplish anything when we are barely out of RVS and you could be contributing to the discussion about Elie and Marth.

Prims told me that scum may or may not have safes when I asked him if the question was modkillable which made me think that maybe they're unaware of the wincon bit? Also if you're saying Prims is good at making standard role PMs then I don't get the point of Eli's question, nor that vote.

This is the original post about fakes. I really don't know what to think about this. It's weird but I can maybe understand asking about them. I still don't like it though.

I don't see Elie's move itself as indicative of alignment. In the end I don't know Elie's intention behind what he did, but it certainly helped bring us out of RVS. So, while I would consider it bad play at any other point in the game, it ended up being useful at this point. I think pushing the town out of RVS can be considered pro-town.

As for the people jumping on Refa: somewhat. I don't know what to make of SB's reasoning and Mitsuki's sheeping, but Marth stating his willingness to vote Refa for... ...parking an easy vote on Elie is hypocrisy if I've ever seen any.

##Vote: Marth

Talks about Eli and the Refa wagon and then votes Marth. Please explain this. I know the case has been repeated but the way it is this vote just sucks.

Alright, THE FLAN is slept and ready to jiggle for justice.

This is in regards to SB's vote on Refa (I'm not remembering that long-ass other thing), right? If you feel this way, then why is your vote still parked on Elie? Besides, Refa's post was arguably still RVS, so the unusual nature of the vote is natural. SB's vote similarly can be written off in this regard as a null tell, even if nobody's taking issue with it.

Mitsuki's vote is also bad and is admitted sheeping, though it may be RVS for her still so meh. Also, why do you care about the wincon thing when that wincon reaction test thing had nothing to do with you? IIRC, Prims always styles the "Town ______" as green. Others use blue just because. She did bring up a good point wrt Elie's test that I'm willing to pursue, though, so she's not a concern.

I'm not a huge fan of Kay just popping in with a one-liner and a vote, but I also don't like how Raymond jumped on it right away demanding reasoning. He also seems waffly in terms of the Elie thing, but I liked how he handled the whole thing. His Marth vote - which was essentially sheeping Kay - is kinda bad though.

Elie, why are you going on about Shin's selfvote? He probably still thought it was RVS (as evidenced by the way it was worded, almost as a reply to my RVS vote), plus... it's Shin. That sort of thing this early is null, especially for him. Elie in particular, what about Refa's last post is paranoid to you?

I also don't like the Marth targeting with his reaction test. It was pointless and I feel like we're wasting our time with it.

Randa, make an actual post that isn't bugging Shin for his self-vote.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eliedad

Remember that funky timezone I live in? That was literally all I could get posted in my super short lunch break!

Eli's vote thing was clearly a joke, I'm surprised people were silly enough to even consider it anything meaningful. With a fair portion of the game not producing anything meaningful, I'm hard pressed to see how Eli can justify a vote on me over say scorri. Dat vote be scummy, looks like you're trying to get an easy wagon going on someone who hasn't posted much, it's got less conviction than a jury full of politically apathetic gibbons! Whilst Eli's test is by no means a scum tell, the sudden tunnel on me is.

Besides, the true colour of town is salmon pink, get it right, man. Mitsuki, learn to sheep harder! Also form an opinion on something! Start small, like global warming or whether bow ties are cool or not! And since you've posted again, you should really say why you're keeping your vote, is it still a joke or are you being serious?

Marth's vote on Eli could have had some sound basis, but the fact that Eli "might not know the colour" is a pretty weak case. Also the "Eli will get a wagon, regardless of alignment" is a horrible way to justify things.

Currently both Marth and Eli look pretty bad, although it'd make no sense whatsoever for both of them to be scum, unless this is one of Eli's schemes gone wrong.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

Whilst SB has some valid points, I disagree with Poly being scummy, it feels more like Poly's standard "derp" play.

The bolded are the points in question. Both pass of the case on the other as being standard deep play. And both vote Eli. I question how this would have gone if Poly were on line for the SB-Shin interaction.

Shin and Poly for scumbuddies?

Yeah the whole relation wasn't my original idea. But I do think its a valid point of inspection if one of them flips scum.

[Kay]

Talks about Eli and the Refa wagon and then votes Marth. Please explain this. I know the case has been repeated but the way it is this vote just sucks.

What part of this needs explanation?

I don't know what to make of SB's reasoning and Mitsuki's sheeping, but Marth stating his willingness to vote Refa for... ...parking an easy vote on Elie is hypocrisy if I've ever seen any.

##Vote: Marth

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it looks like you're indicating that Raymond didn't say anything about Marth, and the vote came out of nowhere. Too much misrepping, do not like.