Should the weapon weight return?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

The weapon weight influenced the AS (attacking speed) in older FE parts.

In FE12 and 13 this mechanic was disabled. Every unit can use its weapons independent on its strength or constitution without any speed penalty.

In the GBA games the constitution of an unit influences the attacking speed.

To my mind it's kinda unfair for some classes and especially female characters, who always have a lower constitution than males. For example Lyn or Eirika cannot use steel swords without speed penalty same for Pegasus Knights, who want to use steel lances.

I personally prefer the mechanic, which exists in some other parts that the strength influences the AS. It's fairer for the classes. Every physical unit can reach the strength of the weapon weight.

However it's bad news for mages, who have very poor or even no strength growth (FE11). So it would be probably better, if the magic stat influences the weight instaed of strength.

So shall the weapon weight return?

And if yes, which stat should influence the AS?

Edited August 13, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Alertcircuit]

I like Awakening's mechanic better, saves a lot of time you would waste worrying about weapon weight.

[RJWalker]

Weight should definitely return. And it should use the Build system of Thracia.

[X-Naut]

Weight should return, but the simple "Weight - Stat" system doesn't work out. It ought to use Con and Strength for physical weapons and something else (Skill and Weapon Rank maybe?) for tomes.

[Robert Stewart]

I like weapon wait. I also like that some classes don't have enough Con/Str to weild axes to weild more powerful weapons, and thus don't have particularly high damage output. In theory, anyway.

I prefer the fixed Con system because IMO having the buffer stat grow by any meaningful amount tents to render weight negligible for some units when IMO it should really always be a factor.

Edit: also, I think you ought to add a "no buffer" option for those who might prefer FE1-4 style weight.

Edited August 12, 2014 by shinpichu

[Integrity]

no, the weapon weight system seen in every fire emblem game that didn't lack a weapon weight system was pretty much crap and is best gone.

the fe4 system was maybe the closest to being a decent idea and it was still hilariously fucked up

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Weight should definitely return. And it should use the Build system of Thracia.

What's exactly the difference between build in FE5 and constitution? I always thought, it's the same just only a different term.

Haven't played the Judgral-series yet unfortunately.

I added "build" to the poll.

Weight should return, but the simple "Weight - Stat" system doesn't work out. It ought to use Con and Strength for physical weapons and something else (Skill and Weapon Rank maybe?) for tomes.

I also was thinking about that. It could be similar to FE1 with the weapon levels.

[Scarlet]

No. Realism aside, what did this mechanic really add to the game?

When weapon weight depended on CON (or was unaffected by stats), it simply made a lot of special or simply high-rank weapons useless/bad since most of them had obscene weight, and since enemies like to run around with heavy weapons, most of them had utterly pathetic AS as a result.

When weapon weight depended on STR, it became completely irrelevant outside of the earlygame. Furthermore, it gave a disadvantage precisely to those who'd want to use a strong weapon in the first place - that being units with low STR. That just seems wrong.

As such, might as well do away with a mechanic that can either be completely ignored 90% of the time or makes a majority of the available weapons terribly bad. Also saves you time double-checking.

@TalesOfHysteria: BLD and CON are exactly the same thing. FE5 simply gave units CON growth whereas later games in the series didn't.

[Robert Stewart]

What's exactly the difference between build in FE5 and constitution? I always thought, it's the same just only a different term.

Haven't played the Judgral-series yet unfortunately.

I added "build" to the poll.

The only difference is that in FE5, Build has a growth stat. But most characters Build growths are so low they're negligible.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

No. Realism aside, what did this mechanic really add to the game?

When weapon weight depended on CON (or was unaffected by stats), it simply made a lot of special or simply high-rank weapons useless/bad since most of them had obscene weight, and since enemies like to run around with heavy weapons, most of them had utterly pathetic AS as a result.

When weapon weight depended on STR, it became completely irrelevant outside of the earlygame. Furthermore, it gave a disadvantage precisely to those who'd want to use a strong weapon in the first place - that being units with low STR. That just seems wrong.

As such, might as well do away with a mechanic that can either be completely ignored 90% of the time or makes a majority of the available weapons terribly bad. Also saves you time double-checking.

This argumentation is unfortunately absolute true.

Strength only plays a role in the earlygame.

While a low con could give a certain unit a disadvantage the entire game

The only difference is that in FE5, Build has a growth stat. But most characters Build growths are so low they're negligible.

@TalesOfHysteria: BLD and CON are exactly the same thing. FE5 simply gave units CON growth whereas later games in the series didn't.

Alright thanks!

[Robert Stewart]

Alright thanks!

Did you see my request for a no buffer option?

Edited August 12, 2014 by shinpichu

[Shadow Mir]

Two words: Hell No. Weight just doesn't add anything to the game, particularly when it renders a lot of weapons unusable, depending on the character (Case in point: The lords' final chapter weapons in FE7. Hector doesn't really mind using Armads, but Eliwood and Lyn are SOL with theirs), to say nothing of the fact that enemies usually have pathetic AS as a result of most of them toting heavy weapons (case in point: Lyon in Sacred Stones. 0 AS the first time you fight him, and 4 the second time you fight him. You know something's very wrong when a lategame boss has single-digit AS.). Either way, it's just wrong.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Did you see my request for a no buffer option?

Edited.

[Topazd]

I'm all up for weapon weight returning. It can further the uniqueness of both the characters and weapons.

[Chocolate Kitty]

yes yes 100 times yes

removing weight was the dumbest thing fe ever decided on doing

without weight there's no consequence to the weapon you use, so there's no point in ever having to switch weapons(esp since reavers vanished after fe8). It make gameplay stale, and takes out a huge strategic factor in a turn based strategy game

I personally liked the build stat with a low increase, but I'm sort of up in the air for what I think is "best"

I have (con+str)/2 as the base in my fe hack mainly because it takes into consideration the size of a unit and the strength that they're gaining when they level up(a pseudo build stat). Since tomes have literal weight, I guess they should have the same concept? I still don't really know how ot factor those in.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Skitty of Time

[Robert Stewart]

Edited.

I think you put it in the wrong poll. It should be in the second poll as a stat option.

Two words: Hell No. Weight just doesn't add anything to the game, particularly when it renders a lot of weapons unusable, depending on the character (Case in point: The lords' final chapter weapons in FE7. Hector doesn't really mind using Armads, but Eliwood and Lyn are SOL with theirs), to say nothing of the fact that enemies usually have pathetic AS as a result of most of them toting heavy weapons (case in point: Lyon in Sacred Stones. 0 AS the first time you fight him, and 4 the second time you fight him. You know something's very wrong when a lategame boss has single-digit AS.). Either way, it's just wrong.

TBH I don't think not having weapon weight would help Lyon much in that case since he only has 12 Spd in Ch 17 and 16 Spd in the Final chapter. This really seems like more of an issue of enemies having bad stats in general than with weapon weight in specific.

[Shadow Mir]

I think you put it in the wrong poll. It should be in the second poll as a stat option.

TBH I don't think not having weapon weight would help Lyon much in that case since he only has 12 Spd in Ch 17 and 16 Spd in the Final chapter. This really seems like more of an issue of enemies having bad stats in general than with weapon weight in specific.

Admittedly, it's true that bad stats are likely the root of the problem. But it's still miles above having your AS so low it's just laughable.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Tomes like Naglfar (18) and Gleipnir (20) just weigh way too much.

[Shadow Mir]

Tomes like Naglfar (18) and Gleipnir (20) just weigh way too much.

Exactly. And it's not like high rank tomes in general are much better about this (the only ones I could justify being heavy are the long-range tomes).

[Scarlet]

without weight there's no consequence to the weapon you use, so there's no point in ever having to switch weapons(esp since reavers vanished after fe8).

That's not quite true. There are still weapons with special effects (like effective damage against certain classes), and stronger weapons are usually limited in availability, be it because you can't buy them or because money is an issue.

For instance, if FE8 didn't have weapon weight, you still wouldn't be able to mindlessly spam silver weapons, as you only get very few free ones and can't buy them until near the end of the game.

Then there's also the weapon triangle. Its effects tend to become somewhat neglible later in the game, but it's nonetheless there.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Exactly. And it's not like high rank tomes in general are much better about this (the only ones I could justify being heavy are the long-range tomes).

The problem is that the con is a constant stat, which only could be improved by body rings.

Imo the Tellius-series did it better in this point that the strength growth of the mages depend on their type of magic.

Thunder tomes are heavier than wind, but therefore thunder mages have a better strength growth.

In FE9 Ilyana had a decent enough strength growth to use bolting and rexbolt without speed penalty.

Edited August 12, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Robert Stewart]

The problem is that the con is a constant stat, which only could be improved by body rings.

Imo the Tellius-series did it better in this point that the strength growth of the mages depend on their type of magic.

Thunder tomes are heavier than wind, but therefore thunder mages have a better strength growth.

In FE9 Ilyana had a decent enough strength growth to use bolting and rexbolt without speed penalty.

Did we play the same FE9? Even going by averages Ilyana will always have AS loss with Rexbolt.

I like the idea of a mostly fixed buffer, just because I like the idea of some characters just not having very high damage output.

Edited August 12, 2014 by shinpichu

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Did we play the same FE9? Even going by averages Ilyana will always have AS loss with Rexbolt.

I like the idea of a mostly fixed buffer, just because I like the idea of some characters just not having very high damage output.

She maxed strength (15) in about 50% of my runs. Rexbolt weighs 14, so no speed penalty.

[Flying Shogi]

I like the way Awakening handled it. Honestly, weapon weight only brought about negative effects for both the player and the enemy. If weight returns with Awakening's pair up system for the next game, it only serves more of a hindrance to the enemy.

[Robert Stewart]

She maxed strength (15) in about 50% of my runs. Rexbolt weighs 14, so no speed penalty.

Her average at 20/20 is 11 Str. Given that her Str growth is a measly 25% it's highly likely she might not even hit that.