CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Dormio]

[Shin]

##Unvote

Refa, I probably worded what I said badly. Whilst it wasn't a hard claim, the fact that kirsche drew attention to himself like that doesn't quite make sense unless he has something to gain from it. I agree the ambiguity is a little odd, but I'm reading it as "I want to say I'm a miller without saying I am miller".

I don't like how Dormio isn't actually responding to people, he's skirting around the issue and denying things. I also dislike the use of self-meta as a defense - which seems to be his alternative to replying to stuff.

##Vote: Dormio

[Sunwoo]

I need to go to bed and I'm not sure how this Dormio wagon is building up. I'll take another look at his posts in the afternoon (or whenever I get on a laptop). Before I leave, though, could someone explain what the main issue against Dormio is in a nutshell?

[Randa]

okay can we not turbo somebody like 6 hours into the game.

also prims is a butt for starting the game at 1 in the morning.

[Randa]

sorry make that 2 in the morning.

[Shin]

okay can we not turbo somebody like 6 hours into the game.

also prims is a butt for starting the game at 1 in the morning.

Dormio's at no risk of being turbo'd, the rules say that with more than 18 players, the lynch happens at deadline.

[Randa]

i totally should start actually reading the rules.

[Randa]

##Vote: Randa

Lynching from the list of people who complained about the title worked last CYOR, it'll surely work in this one.

SB and Dormio you're next.

so wait a second rein. if you're voting off the list of people who complained about the title, why start with the second person and not the first? is it a conspiracy? probably not.

Day 1

"Hidey-ho, sports fans!" Sunny Day said, greeting the bleachers full of excited mafia players, approximately two of which had played Backyard Sports. "Remember when Prims said on Skype this was all a huge cover-up for Backyard Baseball Mafia? Guess what motherfuckers, he wasn't joking. And... oops, looks like we have our first body."

Prims - Pablo Sanchez - Town Superstar - killed Night 0

"I gotta say, really serves him right for being too lazy to find a cardflip pic from the right game." Vinnie the Gooch piped in. "Y'know Sunny, my old man always says there's two types of lazy - regular lazy, and Rapier lazy. Has Prims been spotted in Brazil lately? If he keeps this up, Vinnie the Gooch thinks we might not even have a mafia game!"

"Riiight. Well, it's a beautiful day on Serenes Field. Let's play some mafia!"

Before they could start playing, however, some (non-flavor) events drew everybody's attention:

- Randa had been staring at Larsa when everybody woke up. "What!?", Larsa shouted.

It is now Day 1. You have until 11PM PST on November 16th to decide on a lynch. With 21 alive, it takes 7 to deadline lynch.

not pablo. also i c wut you did.

[Randa]

also @euk: coyote>renard

[Refa]

If I think that somebody is being deliberately vague, and that this is motivated by the want for flexibility in claiming options in the future, why wouldn't I vote them for it?

My point was that now you have no way of knowing if he was being intentionally vague (and other people have brought up the good point of what scum benefit is there to doing so in the first place) because you jumped on him so quickly.

It sounded to me as if you were implying that you had other reasons other than that for getting "scum vibes" from Dormio rather than "town vibes", though.

Sorry if that's how it seemed; there's no other reason than vibes that I can't really explain.

If you're going to use my meta against me you could, at the very least, get it right.

The last time I tried to force a RVS case was in PaD Mafia where my case was on scum.

Admittedly I didn't read the link myself (side comment: Selery's avatar is pretty cute), but it'd be helpful if you could explain why BBM's meta is wrong. Obligatory scumslips are dumb and everyone should take them with heapings of salt, but the bolded really reads like one to me; how do you know your case isn't on scum this time around (and if you're voting kirsche, it implies that you at least think that he's scum soooooo)?

##Unvote

Refa, I probably worded what I said badly. Whilst it wasn't a hard claim, the fact that kirsche drew attention to himself like that doesn't quite make sense unless he has something to gain from it. I agree the ambiguity is a little odd, but I'm reading it as "I want to say I'm a miller without saying I am miller".

I don't like how Dormio isn't actually responding to people, he's skirting around the issue and denying things. I also dislike the use of self-meta as a defense - which seems to be his alternative to replying to stuff.

##Vote: Dormio

I agree with your conclusion regarding kirsche, but I mean I didn't see it as a flaw in Dormio's reasoning; not really bothered by his self meta, since it was a response to a meta read on him. That's one of the few times where using self meta is valid.

I need to go to bed and I'm not sure how this Dormio wagon is building up. I'll take another look at his posts in the afternoon (or whenever I get on a laptop). Before I leave, though, could someone explain what the main issue against Dormio is in a nutshell?

Dormio wagon is totally legit. Not just because everyone is voting for the same person as me (which never happens when I'm town, and never early on as any alignment), but because all of the cases have their own interpretations and reasoning. The main issue against Dormio is his kirsche case, for various reasons; Mancer had some issues with his side comments as well FWIW.

[Refa]

Dormio's at no risk of being turbo'd, the rules say that with more than 18 players, the lynch happens at deadline.

Wait, really? Lame. Needs more turbolynches.

[Randa]

Wait, really? Lame. Needs more turbolynches.

yeah we need to turbo someone. the doctor should claim so we can turbo him.

[Refa]

Well I mean the doctor was the SK in the last game, so that's a totally legit strategy!

[Bluedoom]

Cool, I can actually make a vote that makes sense now.

##Vote: Paperblade

Follow me, everyone! Your prince will lead you to victory!

His Dormio vote really feels like a filler vote. #Meta but I really don't think Town!Paperblade is the type to vote Dormio like he did.

Dormio's kirsche vote was dumb and full of paranoia but the wagon on him is just as dumb(I guess BBM can be excused for using meta though I know nothing of it and reading the linked thread requires effort). Tryhard reasoning is not really what I expect scum to do during RVS and trying to grasp out of something in RVS is really hard as mafia IMO. I don't think Townblade would vote Dormio for his dumb vote.

[MancerNecro]

For someone who is voting kirsche for being really vague, you are being really vague yourself, Dormio.

##Unvote
##Vote kirsche

I dislike this pseudo-claim.

He claims that the miller passive is great, which hints towards himself being a miller but does not state it explicitly.

I don't like this because this gives him room to pursue one of two paths in the future:

1. He can pass the miller pseudo-claim off as a joke and pretend as though it never happened if pressed on this at some point in the future.
2. He can just as easily claim miller in the case that it becomes relevant and say that it should have been obvious based off of this post.

So why is it that kirsche feels the need to be so ambiguous at the start of the game?

Is it because he's scum looking to create an easy to back claim for himself? I think it could be.

The thing is, kirsche has not claimed miller.

He's stated miller is a great role, not that he's a miller.

Of course, it implies that he is a miller, but at the same time it gives him room to retract his statement if he so desires.

I don't like that.

If I think that somebody is being deliberately vague, and that this is motivated by the want for flexibility in claiming options in the future, why wouldn't I vote them for it?

Nowhere have you explicitly stated that you think that kirsche is scum. It's all "I dislike this" and "I'm voting him because he's vague".

For someone who's voting someone else for being vague, you're being very vague as well (please vote yourself!).

Also, the discussion on kirsche should end, really. kirsche's only ever made one post so far and has had no chance to confirm or deny whether or not he was really claiming to be a Miller.

I feel like Dormio's case was brought up a little too early and that's why it sounds forced to me. Like, if kirsche waffled and hesitated on confirming or denying his Miller claim later on, Dormio's case would hold pretty strongly. However, bringing the case up now when kirsche has had no time to respond regarding his "claim" is bad.

[Randa]

ok can i just say that scum would have no reason to back off of a miller claim. it would make no sense. "hey lets draw attention to myself and then back out of my only defense when the cop scans me for my questionable claim and then unclaim."

[MancerNecro]

Specifically, the last post I quoted seems to imply that Dormio is voting kirsche for "being deliberately vague" and for kirsche having "flexibility in claiming options in the future" and not because he found kirsche scummy.

[Randa]

also ftr i while dormio's case is forced, i dont think scum would have reason to force a case this early when they could've just let town RVS for longer and stay hidden in the pack of nonsensical spam.

[MancerNecro]

ok can i just say that scum would have no reason to back off of a miller claim. it would make no sense. "hey lets draw attention to myself and then back out of my only defense when the cop scans me for my questionable claim and then unclaim."

Well, kirsche has not actually claimed to be a Miller. As Dormio said, he has only said that Miller is a great role.

kirsche could just as well be town bringing up the Miller as a joke. Hence, I feel that Dormio's overreaction to it is scummy.

[Dormio]

My point was that now you have no way of knowing if he was being intentionally vague (and other people have brought up the good point of what scum benefit is there to doing so in the first place) because you jumped on him so quickly.

I don't particularly care, since it's pretty much a throwaway case to put an end to the RVS anyway.

Speaking of which, there's a lot of content to go through now, huh?

Admittedly I didn't read the link myself (side comment: Selery's avatar is pretty cute), but it'd be helpful if you could explain why BBM's meta is wrong. Obligatory scumslips are dumb and everyone should take them with heapings of salt, but the bolded really reads like one to me; how do you know your case isn't on scum this time around (and if you're voting kirsche, it implies that you at least think that he's scum soooooo)?

BBM's meta is wrong because making some random case in RVS is something I do regardless of alignment.

It tends to happen more when I'm town as opposed to scum simply due to the fact that I roll town more often.

And BBM stated that the last time I did this, I was scum when I was not.

Anyway, that's not really all that relevant. What interests me the most out of the entire exchange are the two posts by Shin. (#51, #75)

#51 isn't very interesting, #75 is though. Because I think that it's a vote that's been made to make it look as though Shin was contributing early in the game with some unique opinions when really he just wanted to jump on the bandwagon.

He states that I am "[...] not actually responding to people, [i'm] skirting around the issue and denying things." as well as "using self-meta as a defense instead of replying to stuff" (paraphrased).

I feel that these statements are inaccurate. After all, if you just take a look at the second statement there, the only reason I invoked self-meta was because I wanted to correct BBM who first brought up my meta to begin with.

I think that these arguments were made only because there was a fairly strong anti-Dormio sentiment going around at the time which allowed for things like this to pass without much scrutiny.

If Shin feels that this is not the case, I would like him to explain how I wasn't responding to people and how I was using self meta as a defense as opposed to replying to stuff.

##Unvote

##Vote Shin

[Dormio]

Also wow I got cut a lot.

Making posts when I'm tired is too hard, I think I'm going to go to sleep now. Ciao.

[Zkirsche]

[spoiler=Not Game related]

I feel like kirsche's avatar's faces get less and less trustworthy.

he basically claimed scum when he voted for the guy with the SECOND creepiest avatar and not himself

Please he is super trustworthy and not scary at all. Nope. Not. At. All.

How in the world did you get the impression that kirsche is a girl?

I am so kawaii.

How is there any confusion on if I am a miller or not? Why would I mention the miller role if I wasn't miller? To be 100% clear because fsr people cannot read between lines anymore: I am a miller. I scan guilty to alignment cops.

##Unvote

##Vote kirsche.

BBM put it better than I ever could:

no scum is ever going to go "LET'S MAKE A MASTER PLAN WHERE I SAY VAGUE STUFF AND HOPE NOBODY ASKS ME TO CLARIFY FOR AN ENTIRE DAY PHASE"

Noone's going to back down from claiming miller after bringing it up out of nowhere. I'm falling straight into your second point, but that's because it really is that obvious. Refa got it right away, Boron figured it out before you made her doubt me. The only other person who thought it was actually vague is Mancer who couldn't be derping harder if he tried.

Aside from being overly paranoid though, the vote itself isn't really that scummy. It's just a bad case. @Refa: It'd have been smarter for Dormio to hold the vote until he saw what I did, but making a dumb move doesn't make him scum. @PB: what is the scum intent on Dormio making a bad case?

I'm more interested in voting people who aren't interested in finding scum:

okay can we not turbo somebody like 6 hours into the game.

also prims is a butt for starting the game at 1 in the morning.

Randa has clearly read the thread to notice the wagon, implies that he disagrees with the speed at which the wagon is forming, but doesn't look into the people who are on it to find scum.

##unvote

##Vote:Randa

Is there scum on the Dormio wagon, and if so, who? If not, why should they switch?

pedit: I agree with Marth's Paper point and look forward to his response.

[Randa]

Specifically, the last post I quoted seems to imply that Dormio is voting kirsche for "being deliberately vague" and for kirsche having "flexibility in claiming options in the future" and not because he found kirsche scummy.

but mancer he's attributing the being vague/flexible to a scum tell. so hes think hes scummy because of those reasons. i think. i'm not a mind reader. wish i was though that would be awesome. or maybe not. i mean you'd hear everybody's ideas and could rip them off and become rich, but you'd also hear their hatred for you,

[Zkirsche]

Cut by like 10 posts wtf guys.

[MancerNecro]

also ftr i while dormio's case is forced, i dont think scum would have reason to force a case this early when they could've just let town RVS for longer and stay hidden in the pack of nonsensical spam.

tbh, I actually agree with this O.o...

[spoiler=Also, fun fact]If I'm quoting posts like this, it means I'm on my computer where it's actually easier to quote posts than on a phone or tablet (an iPhone 6 Plus and iPad Air 2 respectively too!).