ghast Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I wholeheartedly disagree with that comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) i don't see how skyrim has any less of an extensive story than breath of fire unless you're trying to argue that a reskin has more worldbuilding/storytelling than dream of five Edited February 18, 2015 by CT075 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I was going more for the open world/choices/sandbox angle rather than the "Your game sucks shut the fuck up" angle but alright, I guess people will look for evil in everything I say. Whatever. You know what they say, you can't please everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't think anyone is misinterpreting your words, it's just that your statements are really really bold and you're not really justifying them, for lack of a better term. and that makes them subject to question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSwordmaster Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 holy mother of god that promotion tree..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siuloir Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You also really can't compare Skyrim and Breath of Fire. They're very much apples and oranges as far as RPG goes, systemically, storytellingwise, and everything else in between. Case and point: If we go by narrative, Breath of Fire's is stronger, contains more character development, etc. If we look at them as imaginary worlds, Tamriel has a vastly superior level of worldbuilding and lore to it. One's turn-based, one's action orientated, one is free roam, one is superior linear... Anyway, too far afield now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alusq Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I was going more for the open world/choices/sandbox angle rather than the "Your game sucks shut the fuck up" angle but alright, I guess people will look for evil in everything I say. Whatever. You know what they say, you can't please everyone. Comparing a reskin mod to Skyrim kind of invites criticism. How are you going to have an open world? Maybe utilise world map hacking somehow to make the player go to different parts of Magvel? Perhaps even some sort of story split between the two main characters nearly halfway into the game— will the player frolic through Gheb's bountiful folds as Ephraim, or strike into the mountains in search of Lyon, Eirika's onii-chan? FE7CM has done nothing but prepare my palate for the true main course of storytelling that is to come. Or did you mean more "you get to choose what class you promote Franz to" than "open world" and "choices"? When you reach Molyneux-level highs of trumpeting off your projects to the public as revolutionary, you should expect at least a vigorous prodding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewolf8 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh, a thing. Just a small concept thing on that witch, there are 9 choices so far (Top left being 1, and bottom right being 9), mostly 'cause I'm an extremely uninspired individual and decided to just edit the female Sage sprite as the basis. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wotzlzx7fn1ppxn/WitchConcept.png?dl=0 If you have any problems or criticisms of suggestions, or even if you're just going to tell me not to even bother with this lemme know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 You also really can't compare Skyrim and Breath of Fire. They're very much apples and oranges as far as RPG goes, systemically, storytellingwise, and everything else in between. Case and point: If we go by narrative, Breath of Fire's is stronger, contains more character development, etc. If we look at them as imaginary worlds, Tamriel has a vastly superior level of worldbuilding and lore to it. One's turn-based, one's action orientated, one is free roam, one is superior linear... Anyway, too far afield now. Yeah, that's the point. You can't really compare a hack like FE8CM to a traditional reskin because it takes drastic measures to alter the gameplay. You also can't really compare it to a game like DoG because the point of that game is a strong narrative while my own game is about strong gameplay. Just because a few people don't like it doesn't dispute the clear mass appeal it's had for people like me who thirst for a massively replayable FE game. Perhaps even some sort of story split between the two main characters nearly halfway into the game— will the player frolic through Gheb's bountiful folds as Ephraim, or strike into the mountains in search of Lyon, Eirika's onii-chan? FE7CM has done nothing but prepare my palate for the true main course of storytelling that is to come. Oh yes, because I was clearly putting effort into the dialogue in FE7CM. I mean, it's not like I made some word changes just to add a little lulz to the game as a last minute addition. If you don't think I'm capable of writing actual clever dialogue, I can direct you to the talk conversation for Matthew/Leila in the Dread Isle chapter where I put actual effort into not just the dialogue, but the cutscene and game mechanics as well. I've also written more than a few creative stories, not that anybody reads them because for some reason writing is dead. (People eat up OC fan art and fan fiction though, because nobody appreciates good writing any more.) And if you actually want to debate whether people read creative writing, I'll direct you to the barren Writing section of the forums where the tumbleweeds have ravaged the land. If it doesn't have Banzai's name on it or it's not about the OC adventures of Samuel L. Jackson and Eirika on a plane, nobody reads it. Oh, a thing. Just a small concept thing on that witch, there are 9 choices so far (Top left being 1, and bottom right being 9), mostly 'cause I'm an extremely uninspired individual and decided to just edit the female Sage sprite as the basis. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wotzlzx7fn1ppxn/WitchConcept.png?dl=0 If you have any problems or criticisms of suggestions, or even if you're just going to tell me not to even bother with this lemme know. Well, for one thing, I'd prefer it if the Dark Witch was a bit... taller? Like when we see how the Wizard morphs into the Dark Wizard, he towers over everyone now, so if the female version could also be a bit bigger than the T2 incarnation, that'd be cool. Also, was hoping for more of the arm flowing dress action. Most of these are fairly tight clothing. Considering how the arms section of the clothing droops off the female Wizard and the Dark Wizard both, it'd be cool to get a similar effect to show the excess clothing on the arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewolf8 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Taller huh? Hrm... Are you using the FE6 druid for tier 2? If so I'll aim for her being more taller then that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Mage Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Do we have any possible male pegasus riders? Or are you a pony racist? Franz is the only Archangel? Hmm. (Doesnt matter anyways, im going to have a fuck ton of mages when i play) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Unfortunately, there are o planned male Pegasus. Yeah, it sucks, sorry. Hrm... Are you using the FE6 druid for tier 2? If so I'll aim for her being more taller then that. Yeah, the same one Leila uses in FE7CM. The female Druid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Mage Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Do we have any changes to any of the flying classes? Or perhaps, a new class that can fly? Also, are Rogues now tricksters with staff support? Edited February 19, 2015 by B.Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) There are in fact at least two new flying classes. Rogues are literally identical to vanilla FE8. I saw no reason to change them. Assassins are really different though. P.S. There are now 119 classes in FE8CM. I'm not sure how big of an increase, but that seems like a lot compared to vanilla. (It's missing a couple key classes though) Edited February 19, 2015 by Klokinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primefusion Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh yes, because I was clearly putting effort into the dialogue in FE7CM. I mean, it's not like I made some word changes just to add a little lulz to the game as a last minute addition. If you don't think I'm capable of writing actual clever dialogue, I can direct you to the talk conversation for Matthew/Leila in the Dread Isle chapter where I put actual effort into not just the dialogue, but the cutscene and game mechanics as well. I've also written more than a few creative stories, not that anybody reads them because for some reason writing is dead. (People eat up OC fan art and fan fiction though, because nobody appreciates good writing any more.) And if you actually want to debate whether people read creative writing, I'll direct you to the barren Writing section of the forums where the tumbleweeds have ravaged the land. If it doesn't have Banzai's name on it or it's not about the OC adventures of Samuel L. Jackson and Eirika on a plane, nobody reads it. This is good writing? The amount of ego in here is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Did you just read sarcasm Oh yes, because I was clearly putting effort into the dialogue in FE7CM As me being serious? I even included italics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alusq Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Oh yes, because I was clearly putting effort into the dialogue in FE7CM. I mean, it's not like I made some word changes just to add a little lulz to the game as a last minute addition. If you don't think I'm capable of writing actual clever dialogue, I can direct you to the talk conversation for Matthew/Leila in the Dread Isle chapter where I put actual effort into not just the dialogue, but the cutscene and game mechanics as well. I've also written more than a few creative stories, not that anybody reads them because for some reason writing is dead. (People eat up OC fan art and fan fiction though, because nobody appreciates good writing any more.) And if you actually want to debate whether people read creative writing, I'll direct you to the barren Writing section of the forums where the tumbleweeds have ravaged the land. If it doesn't have Banzai's name on it or it's not about the OC adventures of Samuel L. Jackson and Eirika on a plane, nobody reads it. It seems like you had enough fun using Find and Replace in FEditor to mention it, especially when you're throwing around terms like "open world" for the sequel. Good thing you've got a talk conversation as your saving grace! My comment on the story was more snide than I intended, though, so I apologise for that. Can writing be dead on a forum where it was probably barely alive in the first place (correct me if you want)? I don't feel compelled to debate with you on this when I never wanted to. By the way, my saying that FE8CM reminds me of a Japanese hack minus the theft wasn't meant as a knock on the game. It's a new take on the game with game mechanics, new classes, and other stuff worked into it. If it makes for a good FE game, it will be as replayable as its base game (which is very replayable). You obviously have far greater and more organised plans for this game than FE7CM, so there's no reason to have a negative outlook on it until you start parading around like people are going to be playing it for the rest of their lives. Edited February 19, 2015 by Alusq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primefusion Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Actually I'm referring to this as well. If you don't think I'm capable of writing actual clever dialogue, I can direct you to the talk conversation for Matthew/Leila in the Dread Isle chapter where I put actual effort into not just the dialogue Which is not sarcasm. I've read the Matthew/Leila conversation and I can tell you it needs work. If you're going to say or even imply that you're "good at writing" or something along those lines you're not allowed to have dialogue like the pictures I posted earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Just because a few people don't like it doesn't dispute the clear mass appeal it's had for people like me who thirst for a massively replayable FE game. that's not why people are harping on it though. It's the fact that you make everything you do seem like a divine intervention. When really fe7cm was a difficulty hack with a gimmick. And if FE8CM is really as revolutionary as you're making it out to be then it invites suspicion because really the only thing we can compare it to was fe7cm. But when you say "PoR on steroids" or "also can't really compare it to a game like DoG because the point of that game is a strong narrative while my own game is about strong gameplay" or "Fuck a cohesive story" or "Don't make a shitty full custom game, just make a reskin because those are always better", this hack and its 'popularity' poses a risk to lowering willingness to play legitimately creative and unique hacks. And I'd also argue that its popularity came from your insistence to get people to LP them and the fact that it was a full mod, alongside the randomization gimmick. But the bottom line is that you seem to support and insist the notion of "fuck creativity, go replayability", and that is straight up is terminal illness inducing to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) If you're going to say or even imply that you're "good at writing" or something along those lines you're not allowed to have dialogue like the pictures I posted earlier. Wow, that's a BOLD statement! So you're saying if Isaac Asimov decided to write a stupid little funny story, he's no longer allowed to be called a good writer? If William Shakespeare writes some cruddy poem that nobody likes, that invalidates everything he's ever done? Who are you to be the arbiter of what's good and what's bad? Slippery slope arguments much? Maybe I'm not Isaac Asimov or Shakespeare, but they didn't start off as godly writers either, nobody does or ever did in fact. I'm sure at some point when they started they wrote something awful, maybe when they were young. Perhaps someone like Christopher Paolini, who started writing at a young age, wrote some bad fan fiction before writing his magnum opus, the Eragon series. Does that invalidate him as well? What about Michael Crichton, did he always write fantastically complex science fiction stories? Did he start off poorly as well? I mean, I know for a fact you at the least didn't start off perfectly either. I'm just plodding along, advancing more slowly than others, but steadily creeping. Maybe it'll take me another day to reach your level, maybe 5 years, maybe never. But to dismiss me as a writer as bad because of one hack, that's really shallow bro. Furthermore, it's a hilariously far cry from insulting my 'writing' when that wasn't WRITING. I used find and replace, hoping it would make some amusing dialogue bits. Maybe you don't appreciate it, but for the casual audience I aim for, I've had many say they like it. Are their opinions invalid too? I've never put any effort into any of the dialogue because dialogue wasn't an important matter. I made the game intending not to even touch it, and then before the first version was released, I edited it a little bit at the last minute. Writing, as in the actual act of sitting down and writing, was only used once in the hack, and that's in Matthew/Leila's talk conversation. Maybe you don't like it, but so what? You've made a hack with a good story/dialogue so now if you ever make a lulz hack, that makes you a crappy writer too? And before you fire back with more jabs about my writing, I'm gonna point out at no point in the last three pages have I ever said my writing in FE7CM was good. Never, it's terrible. Especially as it isn't writing, but barring that, people have been attacking the 'story' for no reason. I never even mentioned it, someone else did. You all just waltzed into the thread and started getting on high horses acting like the kings of keen. I made mention of the Matthew/Leila conversation because clearly that counts as writing, and it's not the shit tier everyone is making it out to be. It may not be the Hamlet of dialogue scenes, but it conveys the scene effectively enough for 45 minutes of work and I'm not the sort of person to second guess something. The amount of ego in here is unreal. What kind of shitter post is this even? What does it contribute? I don't recall dumping in your threads any time recently. Wake up on the wrong side of bed? Bad day at work?? Having girl problems??? I already explained that I poorly worded this: I'm designing it to be the be-all, end all of FE hacks. And yet you guys just keep nagging like little girls. I know it's all SF is good for and that's why everyone hates SF, because it's just an endless bandwagon (Something I personally have been trying to avoid. Like how I don't comment on every awful thing Ana says anymore, at least not outside of skype.) of people who push others away. How about you do you, and I do me, okay? The thread was fine until the Shitter Brigade struck, and now it's just cancer. that's not why people are harping on it though. It's the fact that you make everything you do seem like a divine intervention. I go overboard, yes. This is true, yes. "Don't make a shitty full custom game, just make a reskin because those are always better" Yeah, I never said this. Like, ever. I've always been one to point out that reskins are not the terrible aberration the English community makes them out to be, and I've pointed out on plenty of occasions how terribly made some of the lauded "full custom" hacks are out there, but at no point have I quantifiably said "Reskins are better than full customs". A good, well designed game is good regardless of what new or old skin you slap on it, and that's a fact. And I'd also argue that its popularity came from your insistence to get people to LP them and the fact that it was a full mod, alongside the randomization gimmick. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact the game was... actually fun? Definitely not. It's just the randomization gimmicks and me badgering people to LP it. Well, I asked Phobia, and I mentioned in my thread multiple times I'd like to see LP's, but I never actually told anyone other than Phobia to LP it. People volunteered, because it looked fun. But the bottom line is that you seem to support and insist the notion of "fuck creativity, go replayability", and that is straight up is terminal illness inducing to hear. This is actually a good point. But frankly, you're looking at the wrong picture. I and many people like me, enjoy playing dynamic games that change when you play them. Most hacks and fangames offer you a set of linear circumstances. Get axe guy. Get same vulnerary. Etc. Repeat for 6 chapters. By the time "choice" finally becomes a thing, the game is halfway over or more. I simply support making games more replayable with more choices/variability at the very outset. Heck, it's not even difficult to do. Anyone could make their games like this, but everyone is so focused on "Deep intricate stories" (Most of which range from okay to yawn inducing) and "Character development" (Which usually ends up feeling forced and uninteresting, though thankfully the three people currently replying here are exempt from that criteria.) that they ignore the replayability of the game. Maybe you don't like my games. And certainly, they aren't perfect, and maybe I hype them up way too much, but on the other hand, complaining because I'm better at marketing to an audience is silly. You know what they say, all publicity is good publicity, even the bad stuff. In the end, I have a reputation as a troll, and frankly there's no way to change that. It takes a lifetime to build a reputation, and only a day to tear it down, except in this instance my lifetime was spent tearing it down. So, I roll with the flow and simply absorb the good and bad, flexibly finding ways to make it benefit me. Maybe if Patrick cared more about marketing his game (And he's stated he doesn't for reasons that makes sense, like 'who cares if more people play it, I don't make money or anything from the plays') then more people would play it and it would be more popular. Maybe if you, Ghast, marketed your game more, you'd have even more players than you do now (Though you're doing fine yourself thanks to your own hack's merits). I gained popularity because I'm basically a selfie whore who talks about myself all the time. I'm a narcissist. It's not an admirable trait, but for whatever reason, it's how I am. Maybe I could tone it down, stop acting like a god of hacking (Especially when I know full well I'm an amateur teehee), and maybe I could lay off the self-sucking. I'm sure it'd improve the perception of me, but can it really get any worse than it already is? My reputation literally precedes me. I'm done typing now, my fingers hurt and I just got off work. Edited February 19, 2015 by Klokinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) FYI I've asked people to LP Bloodlines, and a few people have it on their backlog. I'm also not the type to shamelessly go into other people's threads and mention Bloodlines when they never asked for it. My issue is that I strive off suggs and people telling me what they think of the game moreso than asking people to play it. but whevs. And yes, you did say that. Check your skype history because I'm literally staring at it right now. Edited February 19, 2015 by GhastStation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 You'll have to quote it if I said it. I cleared my skype history last time I moved (Three weeks ago), lost a lot of important chats too. (Like my asm chats with crazy/venno). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 lol if you insist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) T...that was a sarcastic post. I distinctly remember speaking sarcastically when I said that. Like, step 4 was the only serious bit in all of that lol. I can't believe you've been holding that grudge for months lmao I'm also not the type to shamelessly go into other people's threads and mention Bloodlines when they never asked for it. As for this, I was curious as to if this was a jab at me for doing this. Like, maybe I'd done this to you. After spending a few minutes searching... I found a whopping single instance of this happening, and it was in response to a suggestion you had made about making weapon ranges work. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=45771&page=8#entry2991014 You really hold grudges waaaaay too long. Fuck. How does everyone live with all that hate? Must be miserable :/ P.S. Holy fuck, that was a year ago in March of 2014. Goddamn, like, there's a grudge, and then there's a thing I mentioned in passing almost 12 months ago. Edited February 19, 2015 by Klokinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) You sound exactly like you always do so it didn't sound sarcastic at all really. I'm not going to list off the times you've mentioned cm/fexna in various threads and i wasn't even referring to that post. I ain't even mad bruh my life is actually fucking great hows yours Edited February 19, 2015 by GhastStation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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