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Resetless Lunatic+ Run COMPLETED (Deathless) (With Complete Guide)


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I won't. It's not something that's feasible with the current route. I'd probably need to raise Lucina and Morgan to even have a chance of taking it down without Tiki dying.

Shucks, I was hoping to see the first go but internet won't allow it (out of town for Spring Break). Oh well.

.That sucks. I guess if nothing else, it'll be recorded. And even if I do get it on Friday, I'll probably do the run again in the future.

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I'll be streaming my first attempt at bringing the whole thing together tomorrow at about 9:30PM Pacific.

Is this happening or not? Sucks to be living in timezones when "tomorrow" is subjective.

Edited by Knusperkeks
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I'll definitely be using some of these for my more traditional future runs (I allow Wireless/Full Renown/Event Tiles). A little belated, but I especially applaud the work in the Prologue. The amount of resetting I've done due to Luna Elthunder Mage is absolutely horrid. I've seen some of your stream highlights and I plan on checking on the stream tonight.

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Major shoutouts to Knusperkeks for providing a running commentary of what was going on in chat for me since I couldn't see the video!

Seconded. I didn't participate in the chat but was having a lot of problems seeing the video. I wish I could've seen the dodging toward the end - it sounded hilarious.

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And so ends the first night. Came up a little short, since Robin got whacked in P1 and I was hoping to at least show off the polished C5 and 6 strats, but I've never had so much fun getting my ass kicked. :P

After a quick glance through the footage, I realized what went wrong with the movement manipulation: I messed up my movement order again. Sumia was supposed to go up, drop Sully, then have Lissa pair to her. Unfortunately, even doing that right probably wouldn't have saved the run, since Robin decided to eat multiple 36 displayed hit axes to the face, one of which had Luna+, after taking every turn 1 hit to the face. Oh, well, just shows I need to do a bunch more practice so that I don't lose a run to messing up when the RNG decided to be kind.

Thanks to all who kept the chat lively and the random drop-ins informed. I was hoping to do a bit deeper commentary myself than snarking at my characters and the RNG, but seems the concentrating involved in routing wasn't all that accurate a measure of what I needed for the real deal. >.>

Highlights of the night:

-The Prologue where my Mag gain was such utter garbage that I was well into level 8 after the boss died.

-That Prologue that was going perfectly when suddenly, Elthunder crit.

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Man, I actually kind of wish I was recording today's offline practice. I thought my Mag growth was getting trolled hard on stream, but the game just achieved a new level of troll (and having reset now, I really should've at least screenshotted it). 5 Mag and a broken Thunder at the end of C1. It's so absurd, I'm not even mad.

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Well, that was fun. Especially Cht.5 and 6. Too bad it didn't go all the way. Oh well.

I'm going to pay for staying up to watch the whole thing...

I'll post some notes I was taking in the morning, whatever I might decide that to be.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Heh, yeah, I hear you there. I'm doing work on 2 hours and some change worth of sleep. And I totally agree. C5 and 6 were far from my planned positioning. They were at least suboptimial enough that I expected having to take too many Counters in one EP and getting blown up. Yolo RNG apparently had other plans, though. Looking back, I think I should've actually gone with my planned strat for C24. I was trying to be choosier with targets because of my wimpy Chrom, but in the end, I think that just ended up pinning me.

In the very least, now I know that 3-4 hours is a gross underestimation of what a full length run would look like. >.>

Definitely looking forward to seeing your notes too.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to list the highlights of the night:

-Robin getting Elthunder crit. Two runs in a row. Then Fred getting crit by the first Barb.

-Robin missing a Myrm 5 times in a row.

-A Mag-screwed Robin needing two Dual Strikes from Chrom to kill the C2 Barb. Chrom Dual Strikes twice. Robin misses both of her own attacks.

-A 5-hour-long Leeroy Jenkins because the RNG is a troll

Edited by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi
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OK, so here are a few general things:

-When searching for enemy 1-range Counter, cycle through them with L instead of by hand- you missed a General in Cht.19 that would have put you in a very bad place without a crit. Similarly, check reinforcements instantly, especially on stages with many waves where they get mixed in with the crowd easily.

-Don't forget that holding A on the world map moves faster. It's only a minor timesaver but there were a good few times where you weren't doing it and every bit counts in something this long.

-Nowi and Gregor survived by themselves, but I recall you deploying other units to help them during routing. Is solo safe enough (requires testing)? It's probably faster.

-Similarly Olivia was fine in Cht.11. The Thief escaped, but you had a key for the other chest anyway and he'd be catchable with one more Mov (possibly requiring better Olivia positioning for a Dance boost). This could use some looking into.

-Cht.24: forged Arcwind for OHKOing Wyverns? You had nothing to get them and it caused you to get cornered by a mod of them with Counter.

-Also Cht.24: how about SSing to DF? There's a large areal area at the top of the map where you could fight just Wyverns until they're all gone (with an OHKO Tome, only Luna+/Hawkeye and Counter/Aegis+ would be threats, and you have enough Mov to kite if there are many of those). Once they're gone you can galebomb the bottom as much as you like (and if it becomes unsafe, lure them to the edge and KO at range like the water Trick).

-Renown: any particular reason why only up to 470? 550 is just 80 more, well under Int's initial limit of 1000, and gives you Celica's which is a fantastic emergency nuke for cases where it's activate GF or die (like where the run ended), in addition to being great for Grima. It's even within the amount you would normally have after a Lunatic completion followed by your run up to Cht.24 (including the first four Paralogues).

-Cht.16: Hero is important, but it seems like just a little worse luck with skills and you'd get overwhelmed there. You should definitely keep a Hammer on hand for emergencies.

-Morgan's Paralogue: that Naga's Tear could go a good way toward patching up a lazy Chrom, and there's some nice money and exp there too. The time investment would be annoying, though- is it worth it? Morgan can swim so keeping him safe would be fairly possible.

-Cht.12: it would be nice to know exactly how much exp is needed here to have a Lv.20 DF for Cht.15 so you could more safely skip stuff (unless it's really needed for Chrom. But those Warriors are scary and Henry is surrounded- if any chapters are going to be skipped it's definitely a big contender).

-Flavia and Basilio: is it safer if they run left? One possibility is to position them separately so Basilio goes right to lure some enemies straight up while Flavia stays put, then Basilio hops onto her and they bail left (like Chrom in Cht.1). That might buy more time for Robin to attack, and would also let you start going for the RHS without committing to it in case the enemies do decide to be nice.

-Cordelia: initially she was trained to do an early Falco promotion for flying healer access for Cht.12 (and to save Cherche). If you paired Anna onto Cherche instead, she'd have the same Mov and could probably make it to safety just as well, and you were able to handle Cht.12 without a flying healer (albeit very slowly). It would also be possible, if you do need to heal with her, to do an Anna drop similar to Pro and be out in two turns. This would spare Cord from needing any exp, letting you either give more to Chrom or cut a map shorter.

I've gotta go, I'll see if I've got more later. But definitely look into DF for Cht.24 if nothing else, I've got a hunch that if the Wyverns can be OHKOed then the rest will be really safe.

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-Hmm, yeah, the L thing is probably more reliable. I'm usually more meticulous about it, but L makes it more likely I'll have touched on everyone.

-Yeah, I got kinda distracted with the fast move. I was really starting to lose focus as the run pressed past 4 hours. I should be better prepared for that now that I have a better handle on its true length.

-It'd probably be easy enough to save Nowi and Gregor without deploying additional units, but C8 is also an opportunity to train Cordelia and she needs some support. There's probably some revision that could be done to avoid being on the main path and having to use a Rescue charge, though. I might have to look into it.

-The C11 extra deploys are largely to provide pit stop healing for Robin. Generally speaking, if I have the funding I should and don't get Mag-screwed, a forged Elthunder should allow me to play aggressively and one-shot any of the unpromoted enemies—even the +5 HP Fighters.

-I considered forged Arcwind, but it's just not strong enough. C24 Wyverns have 76 HP and 13 Res. This means I need a whopping 89 Attack to one-shot them. Arcwind can be forged up to 11mt at best, which comes out to 41 (base) + 2 (Tonic) + 2 (proficiency) + 1 (maybe... average Chrom has 8 Mag, so the unused Spirit Dust can push him to 10) + 33 = 79 Attack. I'd have to have a fully forged Rexcalibur to make this happen and they aren't available until after C24. I actually have a fairly reliable pattern of movement, but it requires Chrom to not miss his targets. So a large part of my issue was skipping over those chapters where he could have gotten more levels. Average Chrom based routing levels has enough Skl and Luk that there's roughly a 15 Hit gap between him and my yolo Chrom. I suppose I should have kept Anathema on. Even with the route where Chrom's properly leveled, I might shelf Tomebreaker for it, since there's a very small amount of Valks in the level compared to other unit types. Anyway, generally speaking, Arcthunder plus one Dual Strike from Chrom (with either Beastkiller or Gungnir, depending on target) is generally enough to kill any one of those units, even through Aegis+. When I can properly execute the plan, it's just a matter of getting all the enemies clumped on the left side so I can kite them north to south and back over and over, picking off their guys. For additional safety, I might do some number crunching to see if a +25 Hit Wyrmslayer coupled with Anathema is worth giving Chrom. I have a bunch of gold that I'd originally budgeted for a forged Arcwind before I realized it was completely pointless, so I might as well see.

-SS to Dark Flier might be an idea, although its Def cap is alarmingly low for that point in the game. Plus I don't know if I can get enough EXP to SS back to Dark Knight for Grima (Dark Flier won't have enough Def, even with the Paladin support, to survive a double Ignis). I suppose I could farm C25 to get to 10, but those are really powerful enemies (granted, I'd at least be able to get a +5mt Rexcalibur for that).

-The Celica's is actually a valid acquisition for the run. I was just dumb and didn't pull it out of the box. I think my tiredness is more what killed me in C24, though. If I'd swapped Chrom to an Armourslayer and Robin to the Levin Sword, that Great Knight probably would've bit it.

-C16 is a turtling chapter during normal routing (so yolo rushing it like that contributed to Chrom being undertrained later). Chrom should be a Paladin here during a normal run, which results in a Robin with ~40 Def total. At this point in the game, non-Hawkeye pretty much can't hit Robin and non-Luna+ can't deal damage. This means only Hawkeye with Luna+ (2.8% chance per unit if all skills have an equal chance of occurring) and Counter can hurt Robin. This is one of those instances where because my concrete defenses are so good, I want to be surrounded on as many facings as possible in order to be able to have non-Pavise+ options, since the Hand Axes with Paladin support completely wreck any unpromoted non-Pavise+ enemy (and have a high chance of killing them with a Dual Strike).

-I actually routed Morgan's paralogue. It's really easy, since I do it as a Dark Flier just after C14, which gives me a commanding terrain advantage. The execution for it borders on scripted, as base Anna can nab Morgan and nothing can really oppose Robin. If Morgan and Anna hide out in the lower left, enemies generally find it too much trouble go after them, so long as Robin's loitering around the middle. I basically do it for the Naga's Tear and the ability to buy really early Elixirs. I just didn't do it during yolo because I was rushing through things in a very off-the-cuff way. This is why I think a real run that follows the routing will take 7-8 hours, whereas the yolo run probably could've been done in 6:20ish if it hadn't met an unfortunate demise.

-C13 isn't actually that scary. Dark Flier with the right side cliff is actually really ridiculous and messes the AI up something fierce. Part of why I train Cordelia is to bring her here to keep Henry out of trouble, as well as provide emergency healing for Robin (and some emergency short range Rescue, since having Henry on her gives her a bit of range).

-Normally I start moving Flavia and Basilio left, but the big Counter ball coming up the middle caused a few issues. I think I'd probably try to run them left next time, anyway, since the enemy density on the left side is a lot lower. Even if they need to take a hit or two getting there, it's worth it.

-Aside from her C12 and 13 duties, my routing makes use of Cordelia's healing in C15 (usually unnecessary, though) and C22. She also brings Rally Speed to C22, which allows Robin to double Simia.

EDIT: Nevermind the Wyrmslayer. +3 Mt, +25 Git only achieves 66 Hit and 40 damage against lances and 96 Hit and 45 damage against axes. Respectable, but it's only marginally better than brinign Gungnir and much more expensive. There's no way Robin could do anything useful with it, either.

Edited by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi
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Arcwind: what about Vengeance? Paladin Chrom should be giving +6/7 Skl, Tonic is +2 more, you've got 39 base so you'll be at 94-96% and only need a small boost to push it over the KO threshold (low enough that you could still take a Luna+ or a Counter and live). Incidentally, Dark Flier has +2 Skl over DK and would push it up to 100% if Chrom has at least 30 Skl. The levels for going back to DK would be a good thing to test on a second run, because it could be worth it in terms of both safety and speed. True, you'd have to go without healing for it to work, but you'll want room anyway to equip Veteran (get back to DK faster), and if you can take down all the Wyverns with flying strats then you won't likely be taking much damage.

I've got a feeling that with more practice and experience (specifically with shops and world map stuff), that 7-8 hours can be brought back down to 6 even in a full run. It's still huge, though.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Hmmm, that's a good point. Vengeance will have been languishing for a while at that point. The reduced Def and not having Sol might be a tad scary (especially since the big, unreachable part is only on the right side of the map). I could probably get by on Elixirs, or possibly Lifetaker, if I can fit it in. In light of that, it's definitely worth testing (average Chrom will have around 40 Skl at that point, FYI, since I throw Secret Books and Naga's Tear at him). Kinda wish I'd kept the save I had at C24 now.

As for the reclassing, at 12 EXP per kill, it'll take 75 kills to hit level 10. C24 contains 48 enemies, so I'll have to find 37 kills in C25.

If I experiment with it, maybe I'll run something like: Veteran, Axebreaker, Galeforce, Vengeance, Anathema/Lifetaker

Yeah, a lot of practice and successive runs might bring it down, like all speedruns (even though this is only a speedrun in the loosest of terms), but unless I keep failing for a very long time, I think my first successful run is going to hit the upper end. Oh, well, could be worse (like an FF9 speedrun >.>).

In any event, thanks for bringing that up.

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Don't forget to reclass before fighting Validar for an extra kill.

You also roughly halved your Par.1 time from Firday's run when yoloing. I'm willing to bet that even just this one run to Cht.24 will make quite a big difference.

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Ooh, this time I'm here to watch! I'd commentate, but it seems that Twitch doesn't want me to log in.

TC, you're free to make a small post here letting us know that you're streaming~!

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Well, that's it for the night. Even if the next run was perfect, it would be over at 4 and nobody wants to do that again. Here's a list of splits and causes of death I was keeping:

Cht.2: 44:03
Cht.3: left Sully equipped for EP 1, she DSed and left Robin with one too many openings

Cht.-1: 00:36
Cht.0: 09:27
Cht.1: 23:25
Cht.2: Fred missed the Merc, who blew up Lissa

Cht.-1: no timer
Cht.0: 02:23 (late timer)
Cht.1: Vantage/Luna boss. Robin had 1 Def/HP too little to survive

Cht.-1: 00:33
Cht.0: 10:10
Cht.1: Robin had terrible growths, then Fred died to Luna+ with two enemies left

Cht.-1: 00:32
Cht.0: Got excellent levels, then FORGOT TO HEAL ROBIN AGAINST THE BOSS

Cht.-1: 00:33
Cht.0: 10:58
Cht.1: 19:11
Cht.2: 2 out of 3 hits missed from Robin/Chrom against the mountain Barb. Virion died. Yolo? Fred died too. He had the Elixir. Robin got impaled.

I missed Pro and Cht.1 of the first run so I don't have their data, unfortunately.

Edit: also, have an amusing excerpt from the chat.

[spoiler=cows]

  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: Wait the factories are automated rught?
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: How do they make PEOPLE?
  • Czar_yoshi: robots
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: So magic?
  • Czar_yoshi: they've got the technology, remember Cattle?
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: You mean our ABVLI?
  • Czar_yoshi: Her name is CATTLE
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: No it's ARBLI
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: Arbli
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: Has a nice ring to it D:
  • Gvroyale: you guys, I'm trying not to laugh here
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: Eat some steak?
  • Czar_yoshi: Gvroyale help me
  • Czar_yoshi: tell potato it's cattle
  • Czar_yoshi: Moo
  • Gvroyale: you're making it difficult!
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: Oh wait you meant that as in laughing is bad
  • Gvroyale: her name is Cattleya
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: Not "you being an idiot"
  • Anunculturedlittlepotato: So she's a southern cow?
  • Czar_yoshi: See? Cattle.
  • Gvroyale: yeah, laughing while the girlfriend is trying to sleep is bad

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Ooh, this time I'm here to watch! I'd commentate, but it seems that Twitch doesn't want me to log in.

TC, you're free to make a small post here letting us know that you're streaming~!

Yeah, Twitch can just randomly be a jerk when it comes to logins. It frequently logs me out in the middle of my own stream and then doesn't give any kind of notification until I try to chat in my own chat (or will sometimes, but not always, give errors if I try to change the title/game info). This led to me not realizing my changever to Advance Wars didn't actually take until something like 90 minutes after the first time I changed stream info. Had a previous stream where it logged me out every time I tried to change the stream info for about four times in a row. :I

I try to give them some leeway because they kind of exploded in growth compared to what their equipment could handle, but that excuse gets a little thinner with each passing day, so sometimes I just have to facepalm.

Also, thanks, I'll keep that in mind and start notifying here.

Well, that's it for the night. Even if the next run was perfect, it would be over at 4 and nobody wants to do that again. Here's a list of splits and causes of death I was keeping:

Heh, I actually would've been fine going a little late to get a perfect run done, but that last attempt was far from it, so that was that. Another yolo run like Sunday's is one I wouldn't want to go overly late for.

Cht.2: 44:03

Cht.3: left Sully equipped for EP 1, she DSed and left Robin with one too many openings

The throw on this was actually way worse than leaving Sully equipped. No matter what, the backup strat will face a Soldier and an Archer, so the Soldier wasn't body blocking the Archer from hitting Robin. The problem was that I left Robin's tome on, because even with Fred/Kellam's Javelin damage contribution, she couldn't finish him off in one hit and ended up eating Counter. The Archer then finished her off by 1 point of overkill. It was a really terrible mistake where I threw away an extremely blessed Robin, as well as good levels on both Lissa and Fred. This run could have gone places if I didn't botch it so badly.

Cht.-1: 00:33

Cht.0: 10:10

Cht.1: Robin had terrible growths, then Fred died to Luna+ with two enemies left

It wouldn't have mattered if the Fighter had Luna+ or not, since it was Hammer guy. A range miscount is way got me here. Of course, I wouldn't have been in that position in the first place if my Thunder had actual uses left on it (that I wasn't saving for C2 and C3) and I hadn't needed to still build Robin/Chrom support points.

Cht.-1: 00:32

Cht.0: Got excellent levels, then FORGOT TO HEAL ROBIN AGAINST THE BOSS

This one was actually me being cocky and not paying attention to my Str (which had very poor growths). Normally, when the boss gets that low on HP, Robin can just run up and stab him dead with the Bronze Sword. He survived with 1 HP this time and have a 54 displayed hit against Robin. Robin chose to face tank it, so that was game.

Anyway, thanks for keeping track of all this. It makes for a helpful retrospective. I'm still debating adding actual splits to my Livesplit. The current goal of the run really isn't to do it as fast as possible (since survival is generally pretty iffy as is). But at the same time, the run is really, really long, demanding at least some expediency.

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Yeah, I'm mostly tracking them to watch for potential drops in time once you get out of the earlygame- I know your Par.1 run from the first attempt was about an hour behind the Yolo run, and figured I'd start tracking it from there (I don't know if that kind of improvement is possible elsewhere but the splits could indicate a possible faster run).

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That does make sense. Keep in mind that many yolo strats are going to be faster if they work because I'll be blasting through on instinct with less regard for if I lose the run. When I get good enough at the other strats, the first 3-ish turns over the later maps should blast by too, since many of them approach RNG-proof, but after that, I'll have to be a bit more careful so I don't blow the rest of the map (and run).

So I was doing some basic offline practice last night, intending to do the C2-C3 leg and the RNG trolled me so hard that I gave up without ever getting to C3. Note that these all happened in order in consecutive practice runs:

-Virion missed the Merc and Robin didn't Dual Strike to make up for it. Tried to compensate by having Stahl go after the Barb first, but he wouldn't Dual Strike for Fred, either.

-Stahl missed the Mountain Barbarian, followed by Fred failing to Dual Strike, and then Chrom didn't double Dual Strike when he could have saved face for both of them.

-On the second wave pull, Robin 1% crit the Merc, allowing the Hawkeye/Luna+ Soldier she'd damaged to eat her face. As a result, I'm debating whether I should start keeping an eye on her crit rate or just stop putting her in range of the Merc.

-Robin hits the Mountain Barb. Chrom Dual Strikes and hits. Robin misses. Chrom Dual Strikes and misses.

-Barb does a weird, irregular movement that causes him to be 1 range short of attacking Fred. This puts him closer to Sully so he can murder her when she tries to pull and kill the wounded Merc.

I didn't think the back-to-back Elthunder crits, followed by Fred getting Luna+-Gamble critted, could be topped, but apparently the game took that as a "challenge accepted".

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