Roy Havenstone Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) So Jonin and Sven, avid FE fans two friends of mine, did what I can only describe as a "minimalist spoken text LP" of FE7 of sorts to compensate for multiple recording failures: https://youtu.be/U606qVCB2D4?t=48m20s At 48 mins 20 seconds they talk about the bosses Paul and Jasmine, a running joke since FE6 and one that has continued into FE10 and FE13. Simply put, they're sick of these characters, or more specifically the "Gay people are funny" joke that comes with them, not only on the grounds that they don't find the joke funny, which on those grounds I fully respect, but also that it's not progressive or appropriate for Fire Emblem or IS/Nintendo, especially with the possibly bisexual Legault being treated as a tragic character rather than a joke. This is what I wanted to make the talking point. Jonin and Sven have never made a statement on their own sexuality, and I'd say this ties into their desire to see Nintendo progress as an inclusive and accepting company more than anything else (In their most recent episode of their podcast "Monkey Broadcast" or "MB", they have a whole discussion on Nintendo and progression that you can listen to at your leisure). I will admit that I found Paul and Jasmine funny during my first play-through of FE7 just because of how surreal the characters were in comparison to everyone else, and while the joke feels childish now, I'd like to think that the inclusion of Legault, and later Heather, are IS's acknowledgement that "not all gays are like this". However, as a straight man, I admit that I'm likely not the best person to talk about this outside of what I've already said, and don't want to come off as insensitive or ignorant, and if I have I apologise. My bisexual friend thought that Jonin and Sven were making mountains out of mole hills, but he's just one guy. So with that, I pose a question to this forum; is the whole "Paul and Jasmine" joke appropriate considering nintendo's wide appeal and should they be cut from future entries in the series in the name of acceptance? Edited April 8, 2015 by Roy Havenstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I... always thought they were brothers? I dunno where it implies they're gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester Capri Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Victor/Vincent: Darling~ But their dialogue seems utterly effeminate and in-game, they have an A Support together, which could imply a bond stronger than a platonic bond... or even friendly bond. Edited April 7, 2015 by Jester Capri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I... always thought they were brothers? I dunno where it implies they're gay. This. Not all gay men talk like that, I know a few and they don't throw around "darling" and stuff like that. Victor and Vincent are said to be twins in their descriptions, I found it a bit weird that they're brothers and they talk like that, but meh. I agree with OP's bi friend. Unless IS says "they're gay and we made them that way because all gay people are like that", then it's no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I was never bothered by it as a bisexual female. Though I always interpreted it as really close brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) The question is malformed. Just about anything can be viewed as offensive by just about anyone, but more than likely when the joke makes fun of a particular demograph then they'll be the ones taking offence to it. The question is more "is this appropriate?", and that's a question of intent and severity. Unless someone can demonstrate ill intent and clearly defined prejudice behind it, then it is a non issue in the grand scheme of things. Edited April 8, 2015 by Irysa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Anything or everything is offensive to someone. Edited April 8, 2015 by Ranger Jack Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Havenstone Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) The question is malformed. Just about anything can be viewed as offensive by just about anyone, but more than likely when the joke makes fun of a particular demograph then they'll be the ones taking offence to it. The question is more "is this appropriate?", and that's a question of intent and severity. Unless someone can demonstrate ill intent and clearly defined prejudice behind it, then it is a non issue in the grand scheme of things. Didn't think about that, thank you very much. Original post and title edited accordingly. Edited April 8, 2015 by Roy Havenstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Would change the title if I could. You can. Full editor, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Havenstone Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 You can. Full editor, I think. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I always assumed they were just overly effeminate. Linus and Lloyd have an A support in that same game and I'm pretty sure they aren't lovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I always just assumed they were slightly insane brothers. Though it's been a while since I've played a chapter with any of them, so my recollection may be off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) I always assumed they were just overly effeminate. Linus and Lloyd have an A support in that same game and I'm pretty sure they aren't lovers Yeah. Now if it was an S support... ...does that even exist in FE7? Also, Pain and Agony never act like Victor and Vincent. They don't even talk to each other iirc. Edited April 8, 2015 by Dragoncat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yeah. Now if it was an S support... ...does that even exist in FE7? no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Personally, I always interpreted the "joke" of that character model to be more about expression than about orientation. As in, here we've got two super-tough looking bandit dudes... but they act and talk in a campy and somewhat "feminine" way. It's unexpected, and that's what creates the humor. Or, with Lloyd and Llewelyn in Fates, part of the joke comes from goofy dialogue (I was going to name him Llardbutt!). Although, I guess the fact that they always come in pairs (sometimes with a support) has potential implications in terms of sexuality. Obviously, having a gay villain isn't necessarily anti-gay (any more than a female villain would be anti-women), but perhaps pairs like Paul and Jasmine reinforce (often inaccurate) perceived ties between male homosexuality and effeminacy, and I could see how treating them as a joke does cast a bad light on either gay men or feminine men. The bandit pair is an archetype I've enjoyed from the series, myself, and I don't perceive the same slights that the reviewers you mentioned did, but I can see where there coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I think "gay" thing is exclusive for N/A version. American folks seem to prefer gay stuff, so all the localization versions always try to convert straight stuff to gay stuff to comfort the N/A audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornguy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I like to assume that Paul and Jasmine are just effeminate. My reasoning is not terrific mind you, but Pent is fucking hot, and they didn't want his bod, just his treasure. I think anyone attracted to men, especially people who are clearly flamboyant, would take the opportunity to at least remark upon this angel on Earth. The Laguz twins from 10 didn't even seem effeminate to me, but I could be remembering wrong. I only noticed they looked a lot like Paul and Jasmine. I just chalked Victor and Vincent in Awakening up to creepy twins in fiction. The two in Fates however, their portraits are a bit much. I think we could do without this archetype personally. I don't find it offensive, but they don't add anything to the experience, and I'm almost certain they will find a way to push that stereotype too far if they keep using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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