Let's talk about the status screen

[Cysx]

I wonder if it might be based on which side is projected to deal more damage and/or have more HP at the end of the round of combat.

Hm, yes, I can see that being the reason.

Edit: (warning, big spoiler boxes)

Actually there are some other examples of that:

Might not be obvious at first, but the myrmidon on the top has a frown and his right eye's edge is slightly different

This one's self-explanatory.

(Perhaps Dual Attacks might be 100%, the fact the information is on the battle screen doesn't strike me as something they'd do for a mechanic that will activate mostly 20-30% of the time outside support pairs, especially for enemies).

Agreed as well, especially since the lower box with the support character faces reads as "Attack!", which seems to imply that dual guard and dual attack cannot happen at the same time. And since we know dual guard still exists, maybe you get to choose between the two, or every class can only do one of the two.

As far as dual attack goes, 100% activation at the cost of lower damage and unability to dual guard seems like a really interesting balancing choice imo.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Cysx

[Ryo]

That's pretty interesting, the only noticeable thing about that battle is that provided every character in the battle attacks(and don't crit) Kamui will take more damage than the Enemy Cavalier will.

I wonder if it might be based on which side is projected to deal more damage and/or have more HP at the end of the round of combat.(Perhaps Dual Attacks might be 100%, the fact the information is on the battle screen doesn't strike me as something they'd do for a mechanic that will activate mostly 20-30% of the time outside support pairs, especially for enemies).

Hm, yes, I can see that being the reason.

Edit: (warning, big spoiler boxes)

Actually there are some other examples of that:

Might not be obvious at first, but the myrmidon on the top has a frown and his right eye's edge is slightly different

This one's self-explanatory.

Agreed as well, especially since the lower box with the support character faces reads as "Attack!", which seems to imply that dual guard and dual attack cannot happen at the same time. And since we know dual guard still exists, maybe you get to choose between the two, or every class can only do one of the two.

As far as dual attack goes, 100% activation at the cost of lower damage and unability to dual guard seems like a really interesting balancing choice imo.

Ah, that makes perfect sense! At first I thought those were their default portraits so I didn't pay much attention. I just found it weird that the enemies in this game look so tense as if it's the end of the world :P I didn't realize they would change depends on situations.

Also, if the things about DS and DG are true, then I really like it for the following reasons:

- Dual battles become much less RNG-based

- It makes sure that the enemy won't just go right down after a DS, but the same thing applies to us as well

- We can control to use either DS/DG at will, while sacrificing the other command

- Enemies can still become extremely dangerous despite having no support

[Bovinian]

^That's pretty funny, it's like their "fuck, I'm screwed" or "chikusho" expression.

Anyways not really relevant but I really hope they change the dual strike mechanic to make at least SLIGHTLY more sense. If my mage/archer is attacking an enemy from 2 range through a fence, then don't suddenly give his partner melee unit the ability to jump through and attack as well. This looks especially ridiculous when the melee unit in question is a knight (seriously they take even longer than Tellius armors to even reach their target, while RUNNING). Not to mention in some cases the (foot-unit) partner literally just flies/hovers across the field >_>

Since the transitions from map to battle seem to stay true to the actual surrounding terrain from what we've seen, this might indeed mean that walls will stay walls and not disappear into thin air mid-fight *fingers crossed*

Edited April 14, 2015 by Bovinian

[Sroy]

^That's pretty funny, it's like their "fuck, I'm screwed" or "chikusho" expression.

Anyways not really relevant but I really hope they change the dual strike mechanic to make at least SLIGHTLY more sense. If my mage/archer is attacking an enemy from 2 range through a fence, then don't suddenly give his partner melee unit the ability to jump through and attack as well. This looks especially ridiculous when the melee unit in question is a knight (seriously they take even longer than Tellius armors to even reach their target, while RUNNING). Not to mention in some cases the (foot-unit) partner literally just flies/hovers across the field >_>

Since the transitions from map to battle seem to stay true to the actual surrounding terrain from what we've seen, this might indeed mean that walls will stay walls and not disappear into thin air mid-fight *fingers crossed*

I feel you here, my melee units used to do things like teleport in the battle animations. Inigo has teleported plenty of times from being far on the right to being far on the left of the animation, dual support was definitely... interesting when paired with brave weapons and astra.

I would like to see dual supports become more balanced, as I'm sure most people have already stated, and I agree that I would like the fences or walls ranged units are attacking from to be shown in the animation. Actually, something really cool would be that if your unit is attacking through a solid, high-topped wall (Like they've been able to forever) to the other side that their accuracy gets reduced. Or just remove it, because archers shooting through solid walls in buildings makes no sense.

[BrandedRogue]

I feel you here, my melee units used to do things like teleport in the battle animations. Inigo has teleported plenty of times from being far on the right to being far on the left of the animation, dual support was definitely... interesting when paired with brave weapons and astra.

I would like to see dual supports become more balanced, as I'm sure most people have already stated, and I agree that I would like the fences or walls ranged units are attacking from to be shown in the animation. Actually, something really cool would be that if your unit is attacking through a solid, high-topped wall (Like they've been able to forever) to the other side that their accuracy gets reduced. Or just remove it, because archers shooting through solid walls in buildings makes no sense.

RD had attack animations with walls

But maybe they should go from shooting through walls to over walls (outside battles only) if you know someone's on the other side you can shoot over the wall, with a accuracy penalty.

[Cysx]

Also, if the things about DS and DG are true, then I really like it for the following reasons:

- Dual battles become much less RNG-based

- It makes sure that the enemy won't just go right down after a DS, but the same thing applies to us as well

- We can control to use either DS/DG at will, while sacrificing the other command

- Enemies can still become extremely dangerous despite having no support

Agreed. The main problem here is that we've been given no reason to think dual guard works any differently than before. If dual attack becomes guaranteed, then it would be weird for dual guard to still be luck-based, which also obviously can't not be the case if it still does the same thing.

And the worst part is, even if it now is guaranteed and was changed to be functional that way... Well I cannot really think of anything that wouldn't make it easy to abuse and still make sense visually in the example we got.

[Bovinian]

RD had attack animations with walls

Yeah, that's why I made sure to call them fences instead of walls in the first part of my comment because the fences actually had holes that archers could shoot through. Iirc 2-range attacks couldn't be used through solid walls.

What I was really trying to get at was, a supporting unit shouldn't be able to attack if they can't normally attack at that range with their equipped weapon from the tile they're standing on. In Awakening, a unit using a 1-range weapon could attack an enemy up to four tiles away if standing next to an ally with a longbow...I mean come on. Not to mention, keeping attack ranges consistent would contribute to Pair Up becoming less broken and promote more careful positioning strategy (e.g. Should I attack this guy from 2 range so I don't get counterattacked? Or should I attack from 1 range and risk taking an axe in the face so my swordmaster partner can get in a hit?). Honestly don't see why this wasn't the case to begin with.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Bovinian

[Ryo]

Agreed. The main problem here is that we've been given no reason to think dual guard works any differently than before. If dual attack becomes guaranteed, then it would be weird for dual guard to still be luck-based, which also obviously can't not be the case if it still does the same thing.

And the worst part is, even if it now is guaranteed and was changed to be functional that way... Well I cannot really think of anything that wouldn't make it easy to abuse and still make sense visually in the example we got.

I'm curious to see how they'll balance DG as well, if it indeed becomes a guaranteed move. They could make the partner unit suffer total/partial damage instead of none (and the "No damage" we saw in the teaser trailer was just a coincidence because the Armor Knight has enough Def to neutralize the attack).

[Sroy]

RD had attack animations with walls

But maybe they should go from shooting through walls to over walls (outside battles only) if you know someone's on the other side you can shoot over the wall, with a accuracy penalty.

That's what I was insinuating. It just makes more sense.

[Philranger]

I'm curious to see how they'll balance DG as well, if it indeed becomes a guaranteed move. They could make the partner unit suffer total/partial damage instead of none (and the "No damage" we saw in the teaser trailer was just a coincidence because the Armor Knight has enough Def to neutralize the attack).

Something like how the SRT franchise does it with Support Defense. The support unit takes the hit and takes half of the damage it would have done to them had they been attacked normally.

[Cysx]

I'm curious to see how they'll balance DG as well, if it indeed becomes a guaranteed move. They could make the partner unit suffer total/partial damage instead of none (and the "No damage" we saw in the teaser trailer was just a coincidence because the Armor Knight has enough Def to neutralize the attack).

Yes, but I can see your main unit being invincible in that case posing real problems. Maybe that would work though. I just get the feeling that it's a bit of a complex matter, and am not sure how much importance was given to balancing during the development.

Something like how the SRT franchise does it with Support Defense. The support unit takes the hit and takes half of the damage it would have done to them had they been attacked normally.

I'm afraid I don't know what that stands for:x

[Philranger]

I'm afraid I don't know what that stands for:x

Super Robot Taisen or Super Robot Wars in the US. They're turn based strategy RPG's similar to FE, only instead of a fantasy setting they're a mash-up of various mecha anime franchises (Gundam, Evangelion, Gurren Lagann, etc.). Only 2 have made it out of Japan that I'm aware of.

[weso12]

Three theories about the weapon durability:

1. It works as normal but Kamuis personal weapons and dragonstones are unlimited use and the game doesn't bother to keep track of enemy weapon use.

2. They haven't implimented weapon durability yet it's possible that they might be using play testing to balance the weapon uses and haven't inplemented in the display copy

3. There is no durability (except perhaps novelty weapons like the glass weapons) and before everyone freaks out you can easily redesign the game around that in fact from a development standpoint it's easier to balance the game with unlimited durability in mind. Increasing the cost of buying weapons, make weapons limited stock in armories (or a rotating time dependent limited stock of weapons also works) and it would also make weapons you find as treasure more valuable

Also has no else noticed they nerfed awakenings crit formula for some reason

Also I've notice that the first of the six skills is outline differenty than the rest perhaps it's either a static class skill or a personal skill that can't removed (which might be why the enemy doesn't have it)

Also am I crazy or does that guy look like a bow thief? Cool! I'm all for gimmicky new classes hope we get one :)

[BrandedRogue]

There seem to be more colors behind the weapons.

like blue with a red bar for Hinoka, red with green for the enemy cavalier

and here one green with a blue bar

any thoughts?

[Awakener_]

It could be a entirely new weapon system, I don't see how it is related to weapon triangle since the advantage and disadvantage can be easily displayed through using green and red arrow.

[Philranger]

They represent Weapon Triangle advantage. Swords have a red background and a green bar at the bottom, lances have a blue background with a red bar at the bottom, and axes have a green background with a blue bar at the bottom (there are some screenshots floating around of that). Basically the background denotes weapon type and the bar at the bottom denotes what your weapon is strong against.

You can see that in the first image you posted.

The odd thing here which most people are still a little confused by is the inclusion of bows.

I think the main purpose behind expanding it to more than just arrows is to help players identify new weapon sub types and what overall group they belong to. Some are obvious like Katanas, while others like Maces may not be so.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Philranger

[BrandedRogue]

That does make sense ..

But that would put bows in the same position as axes

[Cysx]

That does make sense ..

But that would put bows in the same position as axes

Their goal is to nerf lances and buff swords. My dad works at Nintendo

[Ryo]

It could be a entirely new weapon system, I don't see how it is related to weapon triangle since the advantage and disadvantage can be easily displayed through using green and red arrow.

While that is true, using colors is a much more convenient way for the players to keep track of which weapons are strong/weak against which ones. The previous games didn't need them because there were only three (types of) weapons in each triangle, so it's easy even for newcomers to memorize the advantage and disadvantage of each.

However, this game's triangle system for physical weapons has expanded to bows and would work even between "parallel" weapon types (naginata is strong against sword), so there're actually 7 types of weapons. Newcomers and especially western consumers (who're not familiar with the names) would get overwhelmed if there wasn't anything on the surface that would help them keep track of weapon advantages outside of combat (without having to constantly check on the tutorial). And should there be a magic triangle, things will get even more complicated. The green and red arrows are still there, but in order to view them, you have to select a unit, have him/her move closer to the enemy, and then select the enemy in question. With colors, all you have to remember is red > green > blue > red.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Ryo

[falcoknights]

personally, i really dislike the idea of the colors denoting weapon triangle order- partly because it's distracting (to me), and partly because it doesn't make that much sense to color code- really, you don't have to memorize the whole triangle. if you memorize that axes best swords, then it's basic logic that lances would best swords, because there's no top dog in something called a weapon triangle.

if however, it is an entirely new, hectic system, i can see how the colors would work (and i am a bit partial to them, if that's why), but i doubt it's an entirely new system with weird, new parameters with one sword besting another sword, if that makes sense. i don't see a reason why that would be a thing, given what we've seen so far. sure, there's names that are different (naginata is an iconic example), but i haven't seen much of any evidence that would show it's a hugely revamped weapons.. hexagon? thing.

although, something about the menus seems to strike me that maybe we're not looking at the final final screens? idk, but those two four-set button blocks just seem off enough to make me think that. if it's not, then i'm seriously debating shaking intsys for some of the design choices they made, tbh.

as for the colors, it definitely denotes something, but i'm not sure what- i don't think it's a weapon triangle denoter, however, because if it was then i feel like it would make more sense to leave it as one color, rather than a color w/ a stripe at the bottom. i really want to say weapon durability, as that's where my mind jumps first, but it may be a completely new thing, too.

as for weapon durability as a whole, i'd be lying if i said i wasn't mystified by the lack of a way to see durability. i doubt that the screen showing kamui's stats is the "basic" view of it (as in basic vs. full stat view), as you see his stats in the corner. so, either there's no weapon durability, or like i said before, it's a later beta/ development version, and it's not actually the final version of the menu, but it's a very close version of it? which is a possibility, but i doubt it, considering the game is released this coming june, and this was released april. i'm not ruling out the opportunity, though.

as for the crown, i feel like it just shows who's the lord character, basically. i don't think it has much more than that to it, really.

aside from the stats menu, i'm really interested in who/ what the heck the tharja-looking character is, as well as to why who i think is felicia is off away from the rest of the group. and the inigo-looking sprite in the middle. seriously, what's up with that one.

edit: wow... this is long. sorry about that.

Edited April 19, 2015 by falcoknights

[Eveangaline]

There seem to be more colors behind the weapons.

like blue with a red bar for Hinoka, red with green for the enemy cavalier

and here one green with a blue bar

any thoughts?

Weapon levels? A colorful little way to represent them along with the letter system?

[VincentASM]

They're all Iron weapons in the screenshots :P

Iron Naginata, Iron Sword, Iron Katana, Iron Bow.

[Ryo]

Looking at the status screen on the OP again, it seems that Kamui doesn't have a dragon weakness because nothing on that page indicate such a thing. In fact, I don't think there are any space left to display a unit's weakness(es). Or maybe there are multiple stat screens?

[IceBuster573]

I kinda had a realization about weapon durability and why it's back:

"In the Hoshidan path, you’ll have the opportunity to freely level up characters and earn gold outside of the main story. But this isn’t possible with Nohr."

Why else would you need a lot of gold? A crap ton of vulneraries?

[AwesomeSauce]

Maybe Early game weapons have no durability, as you really cant buy them that early on in the game because no world map. (Also, the exclusion of a world map in Nohr's story means that we have in map shops back, and possibly even arenas for us to abuse! Yaaay!)

Although, what I find to be most likely true is That they have yet to implement some of that stuff we notice they are missing, as the game is not quite ready for release. i guess they focused on the more complicated parts first, like sprites and the maps.