isetrh

How strong do Lunatic dragons get? + Units for Lunatic.

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If there's enemy data out there somewhere then my bad. After quitting this game for a while I decided to play Lunatic (despite it kicking my ass last time), and I'm enjoying the challenge. I'm considering using Tiki even though I know she's not a good unit. I would like to know how much HP+Def lategame dragons have, so that I can know how much Str she needs to OHKO. If it's too high a number I'll get rid of her for someone else. Maybe Minerva since she has weapon ranks + forced final chapter on her side, and I like her alright too.

Also, could you see if my team (reclass limits intact) is solid enough? All of them (besides Tiki) are supposed to be good units, but having never completed an Akaneia game yet I don't know whether or not whether "a bunch of good units shoved together" = "a good team." Xane isn't in here because I have the feeling I'll end up banging my head against the wall when I forget he's about to untransform.

Marth

Peg!MU (+2 Str, +1 Speed, +HP) (dondon's build I believe)

Luke

Hunter Draug

Catria

Palla

Matthis

Caeda

Sirius

Merric

Tiki

Feena

Malliesia

I'd like to share that I just finished Prologue 7 and MU has 17 Speed at lv 9, and is at or above average in every stat that matters. This makes me happy.

Edit: If I can ask one more question, when it's time to promote a unit and they're not level 20 (like MU at Chapter 5), is it a bad use of funds to Arena them up?

Edited by isetrh

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Ice Dragons in the final chapter have 56HP/23 Def, Mage Dragons have 60HP/20 Def. Fire Dragons are a bit more frail than that iirc

The dragons in the 2 chapters prior are slightly weaker (Ch. 23 Fire Dragons have 60HP/17 Def), I think you want something like 14 Str before the dragonstone to OHKO? Base Nagi does 54 damage to them iirc

Edited by Paperblade

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Ice Dragons in the final chapter have 56HP/23 Def, Mage Dragons have 60HP/20 Def. Fire Dragons are a bit more frail than that iirc

The dragons in the 2 chapters prior are slightly weaker (Ch. 23 Fire Dragons have 60HP/17 Def), I think you want something like 14 Str before the dragonstone to OHKO? Base Nagi does 54 damage to them iirc

Thanks.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=22526

pinned topic on this forum about stats.

Derp. Thanks. Then she needs 83 effective Atk to kill Earth Dragons in Final, so she needs to cap it.

I like to start promoting units as soon as chapter 5-6 and gradually keep it until chapter 11 where I have everyone but a pegasus waiting for elyian whip promoted.

Thanks, but my question is if when you do those early promotions, arenaing to 20 first would make sense.

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Earth Dragons don't really matter because Marth's shield melts them anyway.

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Don't arena to 20. If their stats are good, they'll cap them anyways. If they're close to the next level arena them there and then promote them pre level 20.

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You only need to kill like 2 non-Medeus units in the final chapter and you can throw all your combat units that aren't recruiting bishops at them

The final chapter is more a question of "did you baby Marth?" and "do you still have Again/Rescue charges?" than anything else

Edited by Paperblade

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Too lazy to multiquote, so in order.

Didn't know Marth's shield could do that. That's pretty nice. Only 17 Strength then.

Alright, so only if they're close to a level or possibly if stats didn't turn out well.

I won't worry about the dragons in the final chapter then.

Thanks for all the help. Any general tips for P8? I'm having trouble with the Silver Axe Fighters because pulling them also pulls a pair of Mages. I'm not sure how to deal with this.

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Earth Dragons don't really matter because Marth's shield melts them anyway.

Does this still work on H3? I sort-of remembering reading otherwise, but it's been far too long.

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all earth dragons are banished at the start of player phase while marth has the binding shield, regardless of what difficulty

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P8 Silver Axe Fighters

Only pull the right Hunter + Bandit group on turn 1 so the reinforcements are easier to deal with. After you routed the reinforcements, you can probably heal up and have Marth or Cain pull the left Hunter + Bandit. Then, Athena kills the Hunter and pulls the Silver Axe!Fighter. Next turn, have someone who can and is worth giving EXP to finish the Fighter on enemy phase. Merric can stand at the edge of the Silver + Hand Axe!Fighter's range so he swaps to Hand Axe. Someone else can then finish him off. Caeda and MU can ORKO the Mages.

If I were you, I'd just field Sniper!Caeda on the very late stages so Nagi can kill Dragons after a Longbow hit.

Edited by Gradivus.

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Honestly it's a good thing for the game's difficulty/balance since Paladins and such can't roflstomp the lategame ones. They'd be very easy to get down even on H3 modes if they'd have like 6 less Spd and HP each.

Also lol at that Peg!MU, like literally a Spd proc on every level.

Edited by Gradivus.

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If I were you, I'd just field Sniper!Caeda on the very late stages so Nagi can kill Dragons after a Longbow hit.

I suppose I could. I liked Tiki in Awakening, and I like Manaketes in general. It's more a question of if she's viable than if she's optimal. However, I could always save her for an H1-2 run with all the scrubs I wanted to use but couldn't in Lunatic. That way I could maybe even get her convos with Bantu. I think that's a good idea. I just talked myself out of using Tiki.

Alternatives for that 12th spot include Xane and forcing myself to git gud, or Minerva to help with my lack of good Axe users. Not sure which is a better idea.

Only pull the right Hunter + Bandit group on turn 1 so the reinforcements are easier to deal with. After you routed the reinforcements, you can probably heal up and have Marth or Cain pull the left Hunter + Bandit. Then, Athena kills the Hunter and pulls the Silver Axe!Fighter. Next turn, have someone who can and is worth giving EXP to finish the Fighter on enemy phase. Merric can stand at the edge of the Silver + Hand Axe!Fighter's range so he swaps to Hand Axe. Someone else can then finish him off. Caeda and MU can ORKO the Mages.

Thanks! I guess my first mistake was deploying Draug over Athena. I've had to restart a few times due to him being critted. This advice should help.

Also lol at that Peg!MU, like literally a Spd proc on every level.

Yep. :D

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I'll try playlogging my experiences. I didn't think to take notes, so Chapter 1 will be from memory, but I'll keep track better in the future.

I reclassed MU to Cavalier, Arran to Sniper, Luke to Myrmidon, Draug to Hunter, Ryan to Cavalier, and Cecille to Cleric. I arbitrarily decided to allow Growth Drop, but not Rainbow Potion or Bond Drop. Rainbow Potion just seems completely broken, and Bond Drop feels like cheating because it gets support boosts immediately, when they're normally meant to be built up over time. I will not use How's Everyone. Growth Drop went to Marth.

On Turn 1 I had Arran chip the bottom-right Barbarian so that Luke could kill it without taking damage. MU killed the middle Barbarian with an Iron Sword. I sent Ryan with an Iron Sword to the edge of the left Barbarian's range to bait it (he got +Speed in P4A by killing the Archer). Through trial and error (mostly error), I found that both of the remaining enemies besides the one going after Ryan would hit Luke and kill him, with the Barbarian coming first. I put Marth two spaces above Luke, blocking the Hunter's way so that the Barb would hit Luke and the Hunter would hit Marth, keeping OHKOable units Cecille, Rody, and Draug completely out of enemy range. The Archers were also out of enemy range, just because I didn't have any particular need for them.

Cleaning up on Turn 2 was pretty simple, though Ryan had to take a Bandit kill. MU slaughtered the poor Levin Sword Thief when he came out. Cecille healed Arran so that he could chip the Village Hunter and allow Marth to take the kill. Once Marth recruited Malliesia, I took my time having her heal everyone to full.

I saved and put MU on the fort with everyone else waiting outside enemy range. MU killed everyone who approached her except for the Hunter. Cleaning up, Draug did chip while Luke, Marth, and MU took the kills. MU sat in Lorenz's range for one turn for EXP while Marth walked up. I waited a little to let Malliesia heal stuff for exp between talking and seizing. I didn not heal up MU and send her back in because that would be too cheap of a tactic even for me.

29 Turns (It will get worse.)

I don't have before chapter stats, but I have after chapter stats.

Marth (Lord) 8.03

HP 28

Str 10

Mag 0

Skill 11

Spd 11

Lck 11

Def 10

Res 0

Sword D +~40%

MU (Cavalier) 12.36

HP 31

Str 14

Mag 2

Skill 14

Spd 18

Lck 11

Def 15

Res 3

Sword E +~20%

Lance C +~80%

Draug (Hunter) 6.73

Base

Bow E

Luke (Myrmidon) 7.09

HP 23

Mag 0

Skill 16

Spd 15

Lck 7

Def 8

Sword D +~90%

Malicia (Cleric) 3.89

HP 17

Str 0

Mag 3

Skill 1

Spd 6

Lck 13

Def 2

Res 6

Staff C +~50%

Ehh, this is too much work and there's nothing particularly special about this run. I don't think it's worth it to keep playlogging after all.

Edited by isetrh

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Knowing how the AI works will save your life. If the enemy has a 2%+ crit chance on one of your units, they have highest priority. Besides that they go for the unit that takes the most damage. So if a unit will die because two units can gang up on it, place a more squishy unit in range of the unit that goes first, and that unit will go for the squishy, while the other will attack the original unit of yours.

Edited by momogeek2141

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Knowing how the AI works will save your life. If the enemy has a 2%+ crit chance on one of your units, they have highest priority. Besides that they go for the unit that takes the most damage. So if a unit will die because two units can gang up on it, place a more squishy unit in range of the unit that goes first, and that unit will go for the squishy, while the other will attack the original unit of yours.

This is accurate, it was really useful to bait ballista attacks in Ch. 18

I also have a playlist of Ch. 5 onwards of my first, blind run. It's pretty slow, I didn't have open reclassing, and MU is a useless piece of crap, but it shows that even with a fairly suboptimal team you can still beat Lunatic. I dunno if it will help. iirc Ch. 19 has some recording issues so there's some weird cuts but you should get the gist of it

Edited by Paperblade

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Thanks for the AI advice. I guess I'll have to pay attention ro attack order then.

Thanks for the link. Also good to know that you're Tomato Bisque. Chapter 5 seems a lot less intimidating after seeing you play through it. If Lunatic can be cleared with an unoptimal team, then maybe I can be a little more lenient in who I use. If Tiki is too weak, maybe someone like Cain or Minerva.

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PKL was trying to clear Lunatic with exclusively Mid Tier units, and so far hasn't failed, showing that it's definitely possible to use unoptimal units and still win. Too bad that run was ditched in favor of 0% growths. Oh well.

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I know it's possible for people like PKL, but I doubt I could do something like that. Anyway, I'm thinking Barst might make a good 12th team member. I have a general lack of good Axe rank, and my Pirate slot is unused.

I'm in the middle of Chapter 3 and for the first time I'm not able to reset away the majority of bad level ups. I was a little worried I would end up cheesing the game, but at the same time I didn't want to risk RNG screwage. Now, I'm glad I gave myself some pre-emptive RNG insurance while I could.

Could I get some advice about promotion times? I have a few questions.

MU is lv 15 with 31 HP, 15 Str, 20 Spd, and 17 Def as a Cavalier (middle of Chapter 3). She can't get any more Speed in Tier 1 unless she goes lolArcher for that 5 Mov and E Bows. Considering this, would it be a good idea to promote her even earlier than Chapter 5? Or would it be better to try for some more HP, Str, and Def until Chapter 5?

After that, I'm wondering when I should promote people who aren't MU, and in what order. I'm guessing Palla would like to promote fairly early. Malliesia is levelling up really quickly because I'm not playing efficiently, so she might hit 20 pretty early--she's already lv 7 and her Staff rank will hit A soon. She could use Nosferatu as a Sage. I don't know if that's valuable or not. If Palla and Malliesia should both promote quickly, I could try to find the cash in in my rapidly shrinking wallet (dat +7 Iron Bow forge...) for the Chapter 5 Secret Shop Master Seal.

Luke and Draug are 7 and 8 and going strong, though I wish Draug would grow Strength. It will probably be a bit before they're ready to promote.

I am currently planning to have Catria go Falco. No particular reason why her over Caeda; I could go the other way around. I honestly don't know how to choose or if it matters.

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Draug makes an okay pirate, but you made him hunter so...

A lack of axes isn't that hurting, I still haven't finished Lunatic but there's no place where I absolutely wished I had axes. Barst works, MU works, you can build up her axe rank and maybe scroll one or two. Jake obviously.

Promote people when you think it'll help a lot. Ie, if you can clear whatever chapter you're on easily and get everything you want without promoting her, then do that. I like promoting MU on ch 5 mainly because he can take on the Dracos with little to no trouble. Same for the others, if you need Malicia's staff rank to go up, early her.

Def have Catria go Falco. Draco caps hinder her potential, and Caeda could use the extra Str and Def upon promo.

Edited by momogeek2141

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That makes sense, thanks! I'll only early promote once it seems necessary. MU isn't going to have Speed problems ever, so spendimg a while with it capped shouldn't be a huge problem.

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That MU looks squishy.

As for axes, the only time I was super-grateful for them was Chapters 16, 18, and 19, but your Dracoknights should be able to fill that gap.

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I don't see how axes are specifically good on C16. I mean there's a General, but he's not really hard to kill even without Hammer. Anyway, you can do somewhat a snowball effect with forged Iron Axe earlygame -> Hand Axe spam midgame -> effective Axes lategame which is nice (mostly on durable Dracoknights). Your MU seems to be well-suited for that. And holy crap, so damn bulky. Also, I recommend against using a unit purely as a Berserker - Axes fall off sharply after C20, so you want to have Dragonpike and with Arms Scrolls (free or C21 buyable) Brave Lance access to stay useful. Berserker's primary quality is doubling many things, which leads to either ORKOes or heavy chipdamage on EP with Hand Axes. Berserkers don't double consistently in that part of the game (albeit very consistently before) and are easily 2HKOed by everything. I'd say they're deadweight by then if they don't have lance rank or Swordmaster reclass. I guess they can still ORKO Mage Dragons though and maybe use that Brave Axe. Also I recommend against promoting Malicia early. You want the Seals to go to your combattants first, and the first time high-rank staves show up is C14, and by then, everyone has probably promoted on H3. She hits A staves pretty easily even as a Cleric, but Fortify as a Sage heals 2 HP more which can be handy.

Edited by Gradivus.

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Okay, so Pirate->Berserker isn't as great as I assumed. MU will work on her Axes after promotion (promotion boost should put her Lances pretty close to A, so no point in focusing that rank umless she needs Silver to kill something). I'll stop levelling Malliesia so hard since she'll be stuck at lv 20 for a while anyway. I might go back to my original plan of using Tiki, unless she's just not usable in Lunatic. She might not have a gameplay advantage, but being adorable in a game where 2/3 of the cast is ugly and looks depressed reminding me uncomfortably of myself is a plus.

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