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Do you think things would have gone better, if Nyna had chosen Marth over Haridn?


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Or at the very least, told Hardin the real reason she was going to marry him? After all, I think what really drove Hardin to despair, wasn't the fact that Nyna didn't really love him, but was because she lied to him, tricking him into believing his dream of marrying her had finally come true. I personally feel, that things could and most certainly would have gone a whole lot better.

If she had married marth, then she could have just told Hardin the truth. That she had to marry someone as soon as possible to put the hearts of her people at ease. And the best way to do that, was by marrying the hero of the war of himself. Of course, Hardin would still be in denial, but he would definitely understand that its what must be done. At the very least, he wouldn't have been so weak as to fall to the darkspheres influences.

What are your thought?

Edited by Jagen
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I'm not sure if Marth would've agreed to it, as he'd proposed to Caeda at the end of Shadow Dragon. It would fit the Fire Emblem's theme of being an end to love, though.

Telling Hardin that he was being married for convenience, and that she'd never love him, would've probably broken him in the same way.

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I agree with eclipse, Marth loved Caeda and vice versa so Marth most likely would have rejected Nyna. I feel as if Hardin's despair would have happened regardless of what Nyna did. Possibly things could have been prevented if Nyna was honest with Hardin from the beginning, but he loved her a lot so being rejected would still cause him to go down the route he did.

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I'm not sure if Marth would've agreed to it, as he'd proposed to Caeda at the end of Shadow Dragon. It would fit the Fire Emblem's theme of being an end to love, though.

Telling Hardin that he was being married for convenience, and that she'd never love him, would've probably broken him in the same way.

Maybe not as much. At the very least Hardin would not have been Emperor so he wouldn't have the power to start up all that shit as easily and soon as he did, assuming it would even happen.

Edited by Sirius
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Perhaps Marth would end up regretting marrying Nyna over Caeda, and Gharnef would have exploited that to corrupt him instead. Then we'd end up with Dark Emperor Marth.

...I now want a Dark Emperor Marth.

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  • 3 months later...

...I now want a Dark Emperor Marth.

If I recall right there may have been a Japanese FE3 hack project based around this concept (with Biraku being the protagonist... pretty weird.)

The videos were up on NicoNico, but I dont' know if the actual patch was made publicly available.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't know... If you think about it, that make Marth even more reseamble Anri, and I don't like that.

Descendants characters should be different from their forerunners. Celice to Siglurd, for example (of course the different isn't very transparent).

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 10 months later...

I think Hardin would have been hurt regardless...but I DON'T think it would have been quite as bad. For one thing, he wouldn't have been TRAPPED in a loveless marriage like he was; he would have been fully able to pursue other options. Plus, he would have had a lot more time to work through his issues before Gharnef had returned.

Plus...I'm certain that there had to have been better alternatives to what they went with. Nyna is an extremely passive character in both games; she strikes me as the type of woman who consigns herself to defeat before she's REALLY fought for something with all her heart.

Edited by FionordeQuester
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Maybe things would have gone better if Est, Catria, or Palla went "Wait isn't that Camus?" during the battle against Doma...sure he was still amnesiac at that point but they could have told someone, like Marth or Minerva or Nyna. I genuinely wonder if they even told anyone there was a continent west nevermind Camus was on it. Perhaps if King Alm sent an envoy over to Archenia?...But then Camus would be married to someone else also...Actually whats the rundown of that? Does Camus really love...I forgot the womans name..Or is he married to her as he just feels like he should for what his amnesiac state did?

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Maybe things would have gone better if Est, Catria, or Palla went "Wait isn't that Camus?" during the battle against Doma...sure he was still amnesiac at that point but they could have told someone, like Marth or Minerva or Nyna. I genuinely wonder if they even told anyone there was a continent west nevermind Camus was on it. Perhaps if King Alm sent an envoy over to Archenia?...But then Camus would be married to someone else also...Actually whats the rundown of that? Does Camus really love...I forgot the womans name..Or is he married to her as he just feels like he should for what his amnesiac state did?

Gaiden tell us that Camus was just in love with Teeta(the woman who saved him).

As for catria, Palla and Est, keep in mind that they were with Celica all the time and perhaps they weren't able to meet Camus in order to make sure that It was him and not a knight who simply resembled him a lot.

Anyway, as for the topic, I think that, if hardin wasn't emperor, he wouldn't be corrupted in the first place, since he wouldn't have the influence as the king of Akaneia that he has in FE3.

Perhaps, like General Ciraxis said, Marth would become the Dark Emperor instead of Hardin.

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Nyna should've ruled alone if only because Camus was gone. Also, I like to think Hardin would've chosen to marry Minerva, as they fought together shortly before the start of Shadow Dragon. Being that the Macedonian rebellion still would've occurred, Hardin would crush Rucke before the coup got anywhere. Nyna knew she wouldn't have been happy with any of them. The only one I could see her marrying without issue is Michalis, as any anger he had would be offset by his hatred for Gharnef.

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Nyna should've ruled alone if only because Camus was gone. Also, I like to think Hardin would've chosen to marry Minerva, as they fought together shortly before the start of Shadow Dragon. Being that the Macedonian rebellion still would've occurred, Hardin would crush Rucke before the coup got anywhere. Nyna knew she wouldn't have been happy with any of them. The only one I could see her marrying without issue is Michalis, as any anger he had would be offset by his hatred for Gharnef.

If Nyna didn't have that crush on Camus, her marriage with Hardin would've been just fine. Hardin got depressed because he really liked Nyna, and she didn't reciprocate.

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If Nyna didn't have that crush on Camus, her marriage with Hardin would've been just fine. Hardin got depressed because he really liked Nyna, and she didn't reciprocate.

Meh...I'm not sure Camus really had much to do with it. From the way FE12 presents it, Hardin thought he was going to live the rest of his life being loved and cherished by the woman of his dreams. Then he finds out "PSYCHE! She doesn't love you, will never love you, married you only so she could manipulate you into being the Leader of Archanea, AND...you're never going to be able to divorce her without fabricating some kind of proof of infidelity or what-have-you". So Hardin locks himself in his room, gets drunk while listening to Linkin' Park, then gets mind-jacked while he was too hammered to resist.

Camus seems more incidental than anything else. For example, my very best friend happens to be a woman, and I actually really loved her once, in THAT way. She had never fallen in love with anyone else, but did that stop her from not having feelings for me? Nope; she just wasn't feeling it. Didn't mean she didn't care for me, of course...Nope. She just wasn't feeling it. What else is there to say?

Edited by FionordeQuester
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I personally think Dark Emperor Marth wouldn't of happened, as Marth could easily justify it as fulfilling his duty as the descendant. Not to mention Garneff would've had to deal with Falchion before getting close to Marth. That being said, I don't think Marrying Nyna would've solved anything because that would also leave Caeda ruined and jealous- likely causing her to get corrupted (not that that would do any good XD.) In the end, Garnef probably would've found a different way to get a hold of the clerics- considering all he would've had to do was corrupt a depressed retainer. Wait, wouldn't Hardin fulfill that role now?

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I personally think Dark Emperor Marth wouldn't of happened, as Marth could easily justify it as fulfilling his duty as the descendant. Not to mention Garneff would've had to deal with Falchion before getting close to Marth. That being said, I don't think Marrying Nyna would've solved anything because that would also leave Caeda ruined and jealous- likely causing her to get corrupted (not that that would do any good XD.) In the end, Garnef probably would've found a different way to get a hold of the clerics- considering all he would've had to do was corrupt a depressed retainer. Wait, wouldn't Hardin fulfill that role now?

Plus...I don't think Marth would have allowed it to happen anyway. He's spent a good chunk of his life living in a country village rather than within the trappings of noble society. And where Princess Nyna was passive and resigned, Caeda is packed to the brim with passion. She put herself in front of a fricken sword for goodness sakes! She was willing to get skewered through by Navarre just on the off-chance that he might've been a decent enough guy.

Even if Marth had agreed to marry Nyna (which itself is a big assumption, considering his idealistic nature), I feel like his heart would have melted the instant Caeda made her feelings known. Marth'd spend the whole engagement bumming around all mopey, get down to about an hour or so before the main event, then Caeda would show up, pour her heart out to Marth...and then boom. Wedding crashed; why wouldn't it be? Archanea is already in shambles thanks to Medeus, and Marth is already known as the continent's saviour; it's not as though anybody would be able to tell him otherwise. Princess Nyna certainly wouldn't force the issue, and Hardin would probably just be relieved that he has another shot at Nyna. There'd be no one at Marth's social standing that would be able to tell him otherwise.

And to anyone who thinks otherwise, remember; Marth is the same guy that was willing to revolt against the strongest military power on the continent, just because he didn't feel like abusing the civilians. Not even HIS civilians, mind you; but civilians from a completely different country.

Edited by FionordeQuester
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Meh...I'm not sure Camus really had much to do with it. From the way FE12 presents it, Hardin thought he was going to live the rest of his life being loved and cherished by the woman of his dreams. Then he finds out "PSYCHE! She doesn't love you, will never love you, married you only so she could manipulate you into being the Leader of Archanea, AND...you're never going to be able to divorce her without fabricating some kind of proof of infidelity or what-have-you". So Hardin locks himself in his room, gets drunk while listening to Linkin' Park, then gets mind-jacked while he was too hammered to resist.

Camus seems more incidental than anything else. For example, my very best friend happens to be a woman, and I actually really loved her once, in THAT way. She had never fallen in love with anyone else, but did that stop her from not having feelings for me? Nope; she just wasn't feeling it. Didn't mean she didn't care for me, of course...Nope. She just wasn't feeling it. What else is there to say?

. . .how did you draw that conclusion from the story? Please support this with actual dialogue clips and chapter citations.

Edited by eggclipse
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. . .how did you draw that conclusion from the story?

Well, the dirty details I got from Chapter 19, where Boah gave a short summary about what all went on before Hardin got possessed. Obviously the part about "you'll never be happy again, you'll never be married again, you're trapped with me, BWAHAHAHA!" wasn't there (nor was the bit about "Linkin' Park"), but that was pretty much the situation that Hardin was unwittingly dropped into. Other than that? Everything I said can be found in Boah's summary.

Edited by FionordeQuester
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I saw the same words, and got a completely different conclusion (Hardin liked Nyna, she'd rather be with Camus, and that's what caused everything else).

Hmm...well, I guess upon re-reading it, one could presume that Nyna was maybe holding out hope for Camus's possible survival? But...even then, I would assume that it wouldn't take her three years to move on from him, if she DID actually have any chemistry with Hardin.

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Hmm...well, I guess upon re-reading it, one could presume that Nyna was maybe holding out hope for Camus's possible survival? But...even then, I would assume that it wouldn't take her three years to move on from him, if she DID actually have any chemistry with Hardin.

Don't underestimate human emotion. Think about the last time you had a serious crush on someone. Now imagine that you had to marry someone else, while in the midst of said crush. That's not going to make it better.

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...OHHHHH!!! I GET IT! So, what you're saying is that there was more to the script than what I initially saw! So actually, it's more like this...

Boah:
Ngh... this is terrible... House Archanea must truly be cursed. As you know, two years ago... Hardin and Princess Nyna were wed. In order to restore Archanea to glory, a king was needed. There were but two suitable individuals: King Aurelis's younger brother, Duke Hardin, and you, Prince Marth of Altea... Princess Nyna begged me to wait just a while longer [because she was still holding out hope that Camus might be alive] but once I insisted of its absolute urgency [for we had already waited a year, and still had no indication that Camus was ever coming back]... She said that it could not be you, for Princess Caeda would grieve. In the end, Hardin was our only choice...

Marth:
Let me get this straight. I understand that Archanea could not be without a king. But Princess Nyna, she already...[loved someone else, didn't she?]

Boah:
You speak of Sir Camus of Grust? The people must never know...[because then there'd be rumors flying around about Nyna being an empty-headed howler who said "screw it" to her duties as the last descendant of Archanea, all so she could just run off with some random knight from the very nation that subjugated us. One that may not even be ALIVE, mind you. All it would do is give PLENTY of ammo for any noble who wants to wrest political control from her by launching a smear campaign]. 'Twould be heresy. The decision cost us dearly, but what choice did we have? It was for our country. [i mean come on, nobody saw Camus for an entire year at that point, and he wouldn't have been a suitable match anyway. What's she gonna do, marry some peasant?] On the bright side, Hardin was happy. In fact, the thought that he was to be Princess Nyna's husband pleased him greater than his ascension to the throne.

Marth:
I know of his feelings. I know that he would have given his life for Princess Nyna.

Boah:
But sadly, Hardin soon realized that Princess Nyna did not reciprocate his love. It pained him greatly [to think that he was getting the cold shoulder, just because she's holding out hope for some guy who died three years ago]... He shut himself into his room, drinking away his sorrows, and saw no one. Spotting an opportune moment [(Translation: Hardin was drunk as a skunk)], as Hardin wallowed in heartbreak, Gharnef appeared. The despairing emperor's heart was gripped by the Darksphere in an instant. He completely changed as a person from then. I've made a terrible mistake, out of my concern for this kingdom. Please forgive me, Prince Marth...

Marth:
So that's how it is. ...And what of Princess Nyna? How is she now?

Boah:
Hardin handed Princess Nyna to Gharnef. Gharnef said that he required the blood of noble-born clerics in order to resurrect the Shadow Dragon... Prince Marth, my end is nigh. I shall give you my tome and staff. Please save Princess Nyna. Even if Archanea's destruction cannot be undone... Make sure that she is safe...

Edited by FionordeQuester
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