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4 hours ago, BANRYU said:

New question: Skill suggestions for a Malig Knight!Corrin (+Spd/-Luk, female)? Efficiency (IE minimal reclassing) is preferred over optimization ideally

The answers to the questions I actually DID ask are much appreciated, thanks!

I generally play and get advice (for myself) for lunatic at a brisk pace, so no grinding etc. HP and MAG are just the best number wise.

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How important or essential for Ophelia's early performance is Vantage? (for sake of argument lessay it's Elise!Ophelia)

This is under assumption that Vantage will get dropped on her lategame. 

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18 hours ago, BANRYU said:

How important or essential for Ophelia's early performance is Vantage? (for sake of argument lessay it's Elise!Ophelia)

This is under assumption that Vantage will get dropped on her lategame. 

She's always going to be good, but she doesn't have Odin's bulk. She'll have a harder time taking on hordes of enemies because she might not be able to keep her health up. You don't really want her to be nos tanking (except to get her lvls going), but it's an option. Her inherent high SPD/MAG/SKL/Crit makes her a great mage even without vantage. Vantage pushes her over the edge into god tier. Soloing maps god tier.

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On 7/26/2018 at 3:31 PM, Centh said:

She's always going to be good, but she doesn't have Odin's bulk. She'll have a harder time taking on hordes of enemies because she might not be able to keep her health up. You don't really want her to be nos tanking (except to get her lvls going), but it's an option. Her inherent high SPD/MAG/SKL/Crit makes her a great mage even without vantage. Vantage pushes her over the edge into god tier. Soloing maps god tier.

Bold: With all due respect, I cannot agree with this. At all. Actively relying on luck in Murphy's Law: The Game is an easy way to get screwed over.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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On 26.7.2018 at 4:16 AM, BANRYU said:

How important or essential for Ophelia's early performance is Vantage? (for sake of argument lessay it's Elise!Ophelia)

This is under assumption that Vantage will get dropped on her lategame. 

I do not think it's important for her at all.
There are very few enemies who Ophelia can kill in 1 hit, meaning she would take a hit on enemy phase either way. That's really all there is to it.

Don't put her up against physical enemies unless their attack is weak and you are using Nosferatu. She can easily handle groups of magical enemies.

Edit: I wanna drop a note here that Lightning only double attacks on Player phase, which means you cannot use it to kill enemies before their counter with Vantage.

Edited by Luke Herzen

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On 8/12/2018 at 5:48 AM, Luke Herzen said:

I do not think it's important for her at all.
There are very few enemies who Ophelia can kill in 1 hit, meaning she would take a hit on enemy phase either way. That's really all there is to it.

Don't put her up against physical enemies unless their attack is weak and you are using Nosferatu. She can easily handle groups of magical enemies.

Edit: I wanna drop a note here that Lightning only double attacks on Player phase, which means you cannot use it to kill enemies before their counter with Vantage.

Vantange lets her get 5+ level ups on her join chapter without being in danger. I send her to the top right village with Camilla/Beruka/Leo in backpack and a nos tome. She can tank and eventually kill everything on that side, including reinforcements. I do this at chapter 13/14/15. Vantage + nos is the exp gravy train.

Ophelia one shots enemies once you get her ultimate form (vantage, high Mt forged tome, LaD, xp favoritism, and a high +mag backpack). You can also put her into range of physical units when she has natural WTA or using calamity gate. Good note on the lightning. It doesn't act like a classic brave weapon.

 

All of this assumes you're going to be investing HEAVILY (xp wise) in Odin, Ophelia herself, and the mother (I almost always go Corrin to passdown nobility). Vantange isn't worth it if you won't be using Odin much or don't want to go all in on Ophelia. Especially if you want to use early heart seals on someone else (Odin wants 2  the early 4 heart seals to pull this off). Lack of bulk is Ophelia's downside, which can be mitigated by Odin xp favoritism.

 

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6 hours ago, Centh said:

Vantange lets her get 5+ level ups on her join chapter without being in danger. I send her to the top right village with Camilla/Beruka/Leo in backpack and a nos tome. She can tank and eventually kill everything on that side, including reinforcements. I do this at chapter 13/14/15. Vantage + nos is the exp gravy train.

Ophelia one shots enemies once you get her ultimate form (vantage, high Mt forged tome, LaD, xp favoritism, and a high +mag backpack). You can also put her into range of physical units when she has natural WTA or using calamity gate. Good note on the lightning. It doesn't act like a classic brave weapon.

 

All of this assumes you're going to be investing HEAVILY (xp wise) in Odin, Ophelia herself, and the mother (I almost always go Corrin to passdown nobility). Vantange isn't worth it if you won't be using Odin much or don't want to go all in on Ophelia. Especially if you want to use early heart seals on someone else (Odin wants 2  the early 4 heart seals to pull this off). Lack of bulk is Ophelia's downside, which can be mitigated by Odin xp favoritism.

Because it;'s not like this is going to be relevant until the game is nearly over, right? Oh wait, that's precisely what is the case. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't exactly like actively relying on luck in this game (basically using high-risk setups and praying everything goes right, because odds are something will go wrong).

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hi resident ophelia nerd here to talk ophelia

On 7/25/2018 at 7:16 PM, BANRYU said:

How important or essential for Ophelia's early performance is Vantage? (for sake of argument lessay it's Elise!Ophelia)

This is under assumption that Vantage will get dropped on her lategame. 

It's really not essential or anything but it's not bad. Can save her in a scrape if she's low on health and able to charge the shield bar with a single attack, but otherwise not too amazing on her in most situations. With groups of weaker enemies she can possibly clean up with Nos + Vantage but unfortunately, Nosferatu is pretty bad accuracy wise, and so is her Skill, especially Elise!Ophelia. She carries over the one trait from her mother that's pretty much the worst for her.

By late game it's absolutely amazing on her. Excalibur (Or another high Mt tome, however most have a massive disadvantage like reducing stats or halving magic which this style of using her really doesn't like. A high forge tome could work, but that's expensive and likely requires DLC), Vantage, LnD combined makes her an absolute killing machine, able to indeed solo maps. But that's the very end of the game, literally being possible for 2 chapters before the credits, and requires some precise setup, so for the sake of this, no, Vantage isn't really important.

But to be honest, it's likely the best skill she's able to get from Odin unless he has Astra (which is subjective anyways, Astra proc is really low chance anyways and Dark Mage/Sorc Skill is low cap) so assuming I'm reading the situation correctly go for it. Duelist Blow is good but most of the time she's fighting Melee at ranged, Bows close up or with WTA on them, Mages with her solid Res, or please dear god do not make her fight ninjas without calamity gate.
Er, which you probably already did since this was like almost a month ago why am i responding to this

11 hours ago, Centh said:

Vantange lets her get 5+ level ups on her join chapter without being in danger. I send her to the top right village with Camilla/Beruka/Leo in backpack and a nos tome. She can tank and eventually kill everything on that side, including reinforcements. I do this at chapter 13/14/15. Vantage + nos is the exp gravy train.

Ophelia one shots enemies once you get her ultimate form (vantage, high Mt forged tome, LaD, xp favoritism, and a high +mag backpack). You can also put her into range of physical units when she has natural WTA or using calamity gate.

Bold: Uh, I kind of want to test this on different modes now... with different Ophelias...
I think that would depend on Odin and her mother's stats and when the chapter was accessed. If Odin and her mother are like, barely trained (Especially Odin since his Def would actually be the thing to bump up Ophelia's) she's likely to die in one shot. Same for later recruitment, those Generals will hit her hard with WTA and considering she can't double with Nosferatu, it'd be unlikely for her to survive.

Italic: For like, a few chapters, dude. Unless you do My Castle skill buying. So... no, that's really not a boon to her. Realistically she'd be able to get LnD around maybe ch 23-25 with optimal exp distribution to her. By then she'd probably also really want Shurikenbreaker to deal with those damn Master Ninjas. But hey, those would be some damn good chapters.

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because it;'s not like this is going to be relevant until the game is nearly over, right? Oh wait, that's precisely what is the case. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't exactly like actively relying on luck in this game (basically using high-risk setups and praying everything goes right, because odds are something will go wrong).

besides the fact we all already know you hate luck, levant The setup is actually pretty clean luck wise. So long as she has a good partner (A-S Support and a Skl boosting class) she's likely to have a ~100 hit rate. Combine that with being able to OHKO most stuff (Besides Ninjas, which is why A+ Soleil, Nyx mother or Merc/Outlaw!Avatar mother is extremely good for her because of Shurikenbreaker) thanks to her high Mag and a strong tome, it's really good.
The issues really pop up with it only being extremely good for a small chunk of the game, Excal being exclusive for the last 2 chapters (it's extremely good for this strat since it has no Mag reducing penalties, only Def/Res reducing ones which don't matter, plus it adds to her Crit rate which she can use well) and it generally requiring a lot of focus on her resource wise, especially if you want to use it before Ch 27 and getting Excal. It's really just more of a "for fun" type deal than something players should be actively going for any time they want to use Ophelia.

Edited by Emerson

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I had a quick look at the enemy stats. She can OHKO the majority of low-Res enemies throughout the midgame. Once you reach the Rally Magic / Life and Death point of the game she sort of starts OHKOing everything else as well.

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I get her full build up by Ch 21-23. She still one shots most mobs even before LaD. Nothing is promoted in her chapter for ch. 13/14/15 completion, so nothing can one shot her. Dual guard + vantage + nos + village bathes her in risk free xp. If you're not training Odin and mother, then it doesn't really work, which is what I've said.

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On 8/16/2018 at 3:24 AM, Emerson said:

hi resident ophelia nerd here to talk ophelia

It's really not essential or anything but it's not bad. Can save her in a scrape if she's low on health and able to charge the shield bar with a single attack, but otherwise not too amazing on her in most situations. With groups of weaker enemies she can possibly clean up with Nos + Vantage but unfortunately, Nosferatu is pretty bad accuracy wise, and so is her Skill, especially Elise!Ophelia. She carries over the one trait from her mother that's pretty much the worst for her.

By late game it's absolutely amazing on her. Excalibur (Or another high Mt tome, however most have a massive disadvantage like reducing stats or halving magic which this style of using her really doesn't like. A high forge tome could work, but that's expensive and likely requires DLC), Vantage, LnD combined makes her an absolute killing machine, able to indeed solo maps. But that's the very end of the game, literally being possible for 2 chapters before the credits, and requires some precise setup, so for the sake of this, no, Vantage isn't really important.

But to be honest, it's likely the best skill she's able to get from Odin unless he has Astra (which is subjective anyways, Astra proc is really low chance anyways and Dark Mage/Sorc Skill is low cap) so assuming I'm reading the situation correctly go for it. Duelist Blow is good but most of the time she's fighting Melee at ranged, Bows close up or with WTA on them, Mages with her solid Res, or please dear god do not make her fight ninjas without calamity gate.
Er, which you probably already did since this was like almost a month ago why am i responding to this

Bold: Uh, I kind of want to test this on different modes now... with different Ophelias...
I think that would depend on Odin and her mother's stats and when the chapter was accessed. If Odin and her mother are like, barely trained (Especially Odin since his Def would actually be the thing to bump up Ophelia's) she's likely to die in one shot. Same for later recruitment, those Generals will hit her hard with WTA and considering she can't double with Nosferatu, it'd be unlikely for her to survive.

Italic: For like, a few chapters, dude. Unless you do My Castle skill buying. So... no, that's really not a boon to her. Realistically she'd be able to get LnD around maybe ch 23-25 with optimal exp distribution to her. By then she'd probably also really want Shurikenbreaker to deal with those damn Master Ninjas. But hey, those would be some damn good chapters.

besides the fact we all already know you hate luck, levant The setup is actually pretty clean luck wise. So long as she has a good partner (A-S Support and a Skl boosting class) she's likely to have a ~100 hit rate. Combine that with being able to OHKO most stuff (Besides Ninjas, which is why A+ Soleil, Nyx mother or Merc/Outlaw!Avatar mother is extremely good for her because of Shurikenbreaker) thanks to her high Mag and a strong tome, it's really good.
The issues really pop up with it only being extremely good for a small chunk of the game, Excal being exclusive for the last 2 chapters (it's extremely good for this strat since it has no Mag reducing penalties, only Def/Res reducing ones which don't matter, plus it adds to her Crit rate which she can use well) and it generally requiring a lot of focus on her resource wise, especially if you want to use it before Ch 27 and getting Excal. It's really just more of a "for fun" type deal than something players should be actively going for any time they want to use Ophelia.

Well, with all due respect, the fact that it requires two level 15 skills, one of which would require specific parenting or a specific A+, and definitely requires her spending time in a physical class when she likely isn't going to be specced to do well in such classes, is disqualifying. As is the fact that it requires two level 15 skills in a game where they're practically Last Disc Magic.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Well, with all due respect, the fact that it requires two level 15 skills, one of which would require specific parenting or a specific A+, and definitely requires her spending time in a physical class when she likely isn't going to be specced to do well in such classes, is disqualifying. As is the fact that it requires two level 15 skills in a game where they're practically Last Disc Magic.

 

On 8/16/2018 at 1:24 AM, Emerson said:

It's really just more of a "for fun" type deal than something players should be actively going for any time they want to use Ophelia.

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Was there ever much tiering discussion on these forums? I'm wondering if we have anything much more recent than, say, the Reddit tier lists, which are somewhat old by now.

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4 hours ago, Dean said:

Was there ever much tiering discussion on these forums? I'm wondering if we have anything much more recent than, say, the Reddit tier lists, which are somewhat old by now.

Not to my knowledge. The only tier lists I know are pretty old, and of questionable quality to boot.

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Tiering is a little weird in fates. It ends up becoming more of a cost efficiency and availability tier list (assuming brisk pace, not LTC). Lots of builds work really well, but have different requirements/investments. Going early cav Dwyer is really strong, with dragon talent MU, but costs a HS someone else wants. Ryoma effectively ends the game on recruitment in BR, but you don't get him until chapter 16 or something (not bad but not early). PKL (user) has a tier list and I think Shephen and a few others have some on the subreddit. A fair amount comes down to preference, once you get past bad units (like Odin in rev, mozu except maybe for conquest, Benny, etc). Nothing else has really come around.

 

Many of the old lists have old builds, like you mentioned. From my reading and experience, here are some strong builds (which can be accomplished by multiple units in different ways): vantage!Sorc, dmg stack+sol!MN, aura bots, rally bots, and a few PP builds (kill target, debuff, lunge). Some units themselves are their own build. Ryoma and Xander are notable examples (Ryoma with MN pairup, Xander with SPD pair up + all the talisman).

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15 hours ago, Centh said:

Tiering is a little weird in fates. It ends up becoming more of a cost efficiency and availability tier list (assuming brisk pace, not LTC). Lots of builds work really well, but have different requirements/investments. Going early cav Dwyer is really strong, with dragon talent MU, but costs a HS someone else wants. Ryoma effectively ends the game on recruitment in BR, but you don't get him until chapter 16 or something (not bad but not early). PKL (user) has a tier list and I think Shephen and a few others have some on the subreddit. A fair amount comes down to preference, once you get past bad units (like Odin in rev, mozu except maybe for conquest, Benny, etc). Nothing else has really come around.

 

Many of the old lists have old builds, like you mentioned. From my reading and experience, here are some strong builds (which can be accomplished by multiple units in different ways): vantage!Sorc, dmg stack+sol!MN, aura bots, rally bots, and a few PP builds (kill target, debuff, lunge). Some units themselves are their own build. Ryoma and Xander are notable examples (Ryoma with MN pairup, Xander with SPD pair up + all the talisman).

On that note, PKL's tier list was buried and the only other tier lists are made by someone who honestly does not know the first thing about tiering. Also, no list of bad units is complete without Arthur, Charlotte, and Odin (sure, he's awful in Revelation, but I would argue that he's still far more trouble than he's worth in Conquest and his only use is to marry off to get an actually good mage).

I fail to see Sol Master Ninja as anything other than a half-assed gimmick - Sol is hot garbage in this game, to be blunt, and Master Ninjas are worm food after a few good hits (because in case you forgot, evade is unreliable). Rallybots are also more trouble than they're worth to set up unless you're buying skills.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Oh I remember PKL's list. That's a blast from the past. I remember he had Effie pretty high so I was somewhat sceptical of it but looking back over it it's not too bad for a 2016 list.

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Is this like the general thread for this sub forum? Well.

I have started Fates for 1st time a couple days ago and just passed the chapter where i got Hinata and Oboro, since i thought the Blacksmith class looked interesting but didn't want to make Rinkah into one, i immediately used a Heart Seal + a Master Seal on Hinata. A waste of resources? Maybe. I haven't tried it in battle yet but i'm not exactly happy with the change because his model now looks weird.

I thought that since Fates had less reclass options that at least meant the change to the 2° one would look better but as both Savage and Blacksmith Hinata looks to have too small a head. In movement he looks great, still not so much.

Is this a common problem in reclassing on Fates? Or would it look more natural if say, i reclassed the avatar or the royals?

Edited by RexBolt

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6 hours ago, RexBolt said:

Is this like the general thread for this sub forum? Well.

I have started Fates for 1st time a couple days ago and just passed the chapter where i got Hinata and Oboro, since i thought the Blacksmith class looked interesting but didn't want to make Rinkah into one, i immediately used a Heart Seal + a Master Seal on Hinata. A waste of resources? Maybe. I haven't tried it in battle yet but i'm not exactly happy with the change because his model now looks weird.

I thought that since Fates had less reclass options that at least meant the change to the 2° one would look better but as both Savage and Blacksmith Hinata looks to have too small a head. In movement he looks great, still not so much.

Is this a common problem in reclassing on Fates? Or would it look more natural if say, i reclassed the avatar or the royals?

There's a lot of reclassing in fates. Don't forget about Friendship and Partner seals. You get some for "free" from child paralogues.

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