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Soleil/M!Kamui's Supports are almost offensive


EJ107
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Hooooooooooo boy. I know censorship fear mongering over the localization has been strong, but if there's anything that'll get axed, its gonna be this for sure. Its probably one of the only things I've seen so far at least, I wouldn't mind getting axed.

I personally didn't mind it all that much in C-A, but when I got to the S support...... Getting just a liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit uncomfortable there IS.

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I think the basic gist of it is that if it was only one thing, it would be not as bad.

Like someone said, if it was just about the powder, that could be explained by Kamui being an idiot/not understanding their actions. But that's only the beginning. Then there's the whole breast touching thing, the "don't flirt with other guys, even though I don't think I have to worry about it," the "treasure yourself more line," and so on.

Add them all together and it's just plain disturbing.

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Hmm, it reminds me of Inigo from Awakening. His S supports usually ended with a "Don't flirt with other girls!" but it kind of ruins things for me. Anyway, after actually reading it I think it's just a case of unfortunate implications.

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I think the basic gist of it is that if it was only one thing, it would be not as bad.

Like someone said, if it was just about the powder, that could be explained by Kamui being an idiot/not understanding their actions. But that's only the beginning. Then there's the whole breast touching thing, the "don't flirt with other guys, even though I don't think I have to worry about it," the "treasure yourself more line," and so on.

Add them all together and it's just plain disturbing.

There's also a bit in the C-support where Kamui is like "I can't believe Soleil worries about things like this" when she goes away in response to her fainting around cute girls and wanting to overcome that to become a "strong, cool woman"

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I'm a lesbian and I... don't really care. It's a pretty silly support but Soleil laughs it off immediately and it seems like it wears off after the B support, and Soleil has tons of lines in the A and S support about how she likes male Kamui. If people have a problem with it, I can understand it, but comparing it to date rape or whatever is blowing it waaaaaaayyyyyy out of proportion. She isn't psychologically scarred or altered by it, it's just a gag.

Also, in regards to Shara referring to her feelings for F!Kamui as disgusting: F!Kamui immediately shuts her down and says, explicitly, that she loves her quite a lot and that she's happy she's a woman, and etc etc. So, uh, if the writers are homophobes, they're really bad at being homophobes, since Kamui is the player's mouthpiece and all.

Edited by Endomorph
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Nope. Nope. Nope. I was cringing while reading that entire support because it was just gross.

Also, Soleil not being able to romance girls is pretty much the same as Tharja not being able to romance female Robin and I thought IS was trying to make up for that with Shara but apparently it's okay to make the same mistakes over again.

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I think the more important question here is why does Kamui have a drug that lets you see all men as women and exactly what was it's purpose?

(I'm being tongue in cheek about "the more important question" part)

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I'm a lesbian and I... don't really care. It's a pretty silly support but Soleil laughs it off immediately and it seems like it wears off after the B support, and Soleil has tons of lines in the A and S support about how she likes male Kamui. If people have a problem with it, I can understand it, but comparing it to date rape or whatever is blowing it waaaaaaayyyyyy out of proportion. She isn't psychologically scarred or altered by it, it's just a gag.

Also, in regards to Shara referring to her feelings for F!Kamui as disgusting: F!Kamui immediately shuts her down and says, explicitly, that she loves her quite a lot and that she's happy she's a woman, and etc etc. So, uh, if the writers are homophobes, they're really bad at being homophobes, since Kamui is the player's mouthpiece and all.

Yep. She has trouble talking to boys, she takes a potion to help with it and it wears off. Then it goes into usual romance swerve that every other Fire Emblem since 6 goes. Are most of you 14 or something?

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I feel like there are so many things wrong with this support I don't even know where to start :/

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I actually don't have a problem with Kamui slipping in the powder. He very well informed her that she was under the influence of it, and it didn't affect her ability to rationalize or make smart choices, coming from someone who gets involved in all the 'social justice' some people can't quit whining about. I will admit it sounded very strongly like a date rape situation though, but upon closer inspection is nothing like it.

The real problem I see is how Soleil only has S-supports with men, and there's no arguing anymore that shes just social and likes being around other girls, it's very clear she's a lesbian. (refer to: I've been in love with you since I saw female you.) And she's constantly trying to change this? I wanted no censorship whatsoever, but I'm really starting to change my mind. Honestly? Make her a character who straight up craves male genitalia 24/7 instead of girls because this removes all the problematic tones lmao. Make some altering with her supports and make her personal skill "Social Butterly" instead of "Girl Lover" and it's all good. Overall this is a ridiculous support and I can't believe someone wrote this.

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This is going to be another Persona 4 scenario where people think Kanji is actually gay, isn't it?

No, she's not a lesbian. She's a standard trope of girls that grope other women's breasts you see in bad stuff like Senran Kagura.

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I'm a lesbian and I... don't really care. It's a pretty silly support but Soleil laughs it off immediately and it seems like it wears off after the B support, and Soleil has tons of lines in the A and S support about how she likes male Kamui. If people have a problem with it, I can understand it, but comparing it to date rape or whatever is blowing it waaaaaaayyyyyy out of proportion. She isn't psychologically scarred or altered by it, it's just a gag.

She isn't altered by it because IntSys sucks at writing characters reacting like people actually would. Sorry, but there's no way in hell you could do something like that to someone in real life and they'd still like you and want to marry you.

This isn't even about the whole "why can't Soleil S-rank girls" thing (which is pretty dumb, don't get me wrong, but not my main point), this is about a character knowingly giving a drug to someone without their consent. A drug that radically alters their perception of the world, no less. Like even if you refuse to see the ~~ewww social justice~~ side of it, it's just poor writing. It's a shit pairing, frankly.

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I hear she trying to get closer to Lazward by flirting around ladies like he did, something like a inferiority complex to him or something. I won't count her being a lesbian if that case.

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She isn't altered by it because IntSys sucks at writing characters reacting like people actually would. Sorry, but there's no way in hell you could do something like that to someone in real life and they'd still like you and want to marry you.

This isn't even about the whole "why can't Soleil S-rank girls" thing (which is pretty dumb, don't get me wrong, but not my main point), this is about a character knowingly giving a drug to someone without their consent. A drug that radically alters their perception of the world, no less. Like even if you refuse to see the ~~ewww social justice~~ side of it, it's just poor writing. It's a shit pairing, frankly.

It radically alters her perception of the world... for one support. And kamui does nothing to her during that time. And then it wears off. And she still likes Kamui, yes. Even when the drug is gone.

You can say it's bad writing because yeah, it is a pretty dumb support, I said as much, but my point is that it isn't anywhere near as offensive as people are making it out to be.

Also I said nothing about 'eww social justice,' so please do not put words into my mouth.

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"Hey I slipped you acid because I thought it'd make you like me. Sorry about that. Marry me anyway?"

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Honestly, why this woman can S-rank Mamui is beyond me. I'm not even going to get into everything else that is morally wrong in their support conversation. The main thing that annoys me outside of their stupid support convo is the fact that IS were so generous on their gay marriage options that they had to write a character like this and then shame her. Good fucking job.

I call on the powers of localization to burn this shit to the ground. This is about 100 times worse than even Lon'quXNowi...

KellamxNowi's S-rank GIMME BURN IT BURN IT BURN IT

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It radically alters her perception of the world... for one support. And kamui does nothing to her during that time. And then it wears off. And she still likes Kamui, yes. Even when the drug is gone.

You can say it's bad writing because yeah, it is a pretty dumb support, I said as much, but my point is that it isn't anywhere near as offensive as people are making it out to be.

Also I said nothing about 'eww social justice,' so please do not put words into my mouth.

The thing is, drugging people without their consent isn't a cool thing to do. At all. Ever. And it draws a pretty creepy parallel to women in real life being drugged by men. Like... it's right there. And this is the protagonist doing this. This is the guy who we're supposed to like and project into (considering we choose their gender, appearance and date of birth, and we look through their eyes during cutscenes). People who choose to play as male Kamui are expected to see his support with Soleil and be like "yeah lol that's totally a normal thing to do".

And I know this is a game about war and people do horrible things all the time blah blah blah but this is portrayed as an okay thing to do. Soleil still likes Kamui after this. This isn't portrayed as the nasty creepy thing that it is.

The social justice thing wasn't directed at you :( Sorry it seemed that way.

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It... isn't really super creepy though? It'd be one thing if Kamui did something untoward or it was something super affecting for Soleil, but she saw some rule 63 fanart come to life and then moved on with her life. Iunno, if magical genderswap vision potion was a real thing, and someone slipped me some, I wouldn't be freaking out. It isn't like it incapacitated her or hurt her, at all, in any way.

EDIT: I'm actually not sure which 'rule' is the genderswap one, and I know it's one off from the porn one, so forgive me if I made an unintentionally hilarious comment.

Edited by Endomorph
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^ Unfortunately not. I looked through the files that I have and that is indeed basically what she says in their S support. :/

It's really a shame, though. Her C-A with F!Kamui look really good.

I was going to cross check it, but thanks for doing so for me then : \

I was her mother, so didn't suffer this support conversation xD...

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It... isn't really super creepy though? It'd be one thing if Kamui did something untoward or it was something super affecting for Soleil, but she saw some rule 63 fanart come to life and then moved on with her life. Iunno, if magical genderswap vision potion was a real thing, and someone slipped me some, I wouldn't be freaking out. It isn't like it incapacitated her or hurt her, at all, in any way.

EDIT: I'm actually not sure which 'rule' is the genderswap one, and I know it's one off from the porn one, so forgive me if I made an unintentionally hilarious comment.

It's absolutely creepy; slipping someone a drug without their consent just isn't fucking okay. Again, I think acid is a fair comparison: you're not completely incapacitating someone but you sure are messing with their view of reality.

Edited by Othin
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