LHM + HHM Playthrough: S-Rank + Max Tactician Stars

[ruadath]

Hey, thanks for the feedback! I'm really happy with this run, because like you said, saving 7 turns on a map this early on is a huge help for later on.

Looking at your given strategy for 13, I'm wondering if I should've done something similar for my own run. Even though I was after experience, I feel that saving so many turns early on will help for tighter maps later and allow for a lot of experience to be gained. I don't know if I could've pulled it off though, because your units are so godly compared to mine.

You probably could have pulled off something like this. Even though I have been manipulating the order of my actions to achieve good level ups, it probably didn't matter too much for this level. In particular, the only thing that I can see that might have been necessary is a strong Hector (10 or 11 Str) in order to take out the cavalier in 2 hits. Except for that, a base Bartre could have taken out the northern enemies in 2 hits (or 1 with help from Marcus), Marcus was base, and the units on the eastern side of the map still needed to gang up (2RKO, sometimes even 3RKO) to take out those enemies and were focused more on gaining EXP than kills.

I guess having a high-leveled Matthew helped, since enemies didn't want to attack him because they (rightly) guessed that he would just dodge every attack.

I should also mention that aiming for the most efficient 4 star on this map was very smart and effective.

So! Any plans in particular on who you're gonna focus on next as far as levels are concerned?

Thanks! As you said earlier, I'm hoping to use the turns later on (if necessary) to gain extra EXP; also, just having less EXP in general makes it easier to get more. As for levels, I haven't really put a ton of thought into it yet. I will definitely continue using Lowen a lot since he will get benched sooner or later (I think, unless he turns out exceptionally good). Since I haven't bought anything, I'm running a bit short on reasonable weapons to use, so Hector is almost definitely not doing anything next level; similarly I will have to decide between Eliwood and Guy. I'm not sure who I will choose from those two since I plan to use Guy throughout the playthrough, so it might be wise to conserve EXP on him.

I'm definitely going to try and keep Matthew from getting EXP because he has earned too much; I plan to use him throughout the playthrough to steal things, and he is definitely not getting promoted, so I can't have him kill stuff as he only has 13 levels to go. Other than that, I think it might just be an even distribution among the units (not Oswin, for similar reasons). I might try and give Dorcas a bit more than usual, now that the rest of Eliwood's army is not EXP-starved and the fact that he is probably going to be benched in a few chapters for a long time.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Edited July 19, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

I'm at a bit of a dilemma for how to approach Chapter 13x. Since its a defense chapter that cannot be ended early, I can do no better than 3-stars. As in the previous chapter, this gives me some leeway in what I set out to accomplish for the chapter, and in fact, as long as I grab the 5000G from the village (and maybe a steal from Matthew). I can afford to hole up somewhere and avoid as much EXP as possible (to conserve low levels for later). I'm not sure if I want to do this though, and it feels like such a strategy would be rather quite forced...

[Brinzy]

Thanks! As you said earlier, I'm hoping to use the turns later on (if necessary) to gain extra EXP; also, just having less EXP in general makes it easier to get more. As for levels, I haven't really put a ton of thought into it yet. I will definitely continue using Lowen a lot since he will get benched sooner or later (I think, unless he turns out exceptionally good). Since I haven't bought anything, I'm running a bit short on reasonable weapons to use, so Hector is almost definitely not doing anything next level; similarly I will have to decide between Eliwood and Guy. I'm not sure who I will choose from those two since I plan to use Guy throughout the playthrough, so it might be wise to conserve EXP on him.

I'm definitely going to try and keep Matthew from getting EXP because he has earned too much; I plan to use him throughout the playthrough to steal things, and he is definitely not getting promoted, so I can't have him kill stuff as he only has 13 levels to go. Other than that, I think it might just be an even distribution among the units (not Oswin, for similar reasons). I might try and give Dorcas a bit more than usual, now that the rest of Eliwood's army is not EXP-starved and the fact that he is probably going to be benched in a few chapters for a long time.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

I agree with using Eliwood for now and Guy later. I think Guy having the much higher speed stat will be crucial for use later on. Saving Matthew seems like it will be critical thanks to how important he is. I actually want to know when you're gonna bring back Dorcas, because that's something I'm thinking about in my own run. I was considering maybe the Dread Isle or a bit later actually.

As for 13x, as forced a strategy as it is, I think that it should, again work in your favor. The lower levels should make some of those monstrous XP chapters easy.

[ruadath]

I'm finally finished with Chapter 13x! This proved to be quite difficult due to the fact that I was trying to limit the number of characters I am using, but eventually I found the mixture of offense and defense to accommodate getting Marcus to the village with minimal trouble and getting everyone else appropriate EXP distributions etc. I'll have a post with more details soon!

[ruadath]

Another map with a difficult, impractical starting formation; our heavy hitters (that we want to use) are stuck at the bottom of the map and can't get up to hold the bridge quickly enough. Oh well, we'll just have to work with what we have.

Turn 1: Eliwood moves up and attacks the myrmidon with Iron Sword. Hector rescues him from below, and then Lowen finishes him off (Iron Lance). Bartre attacks the archer, Oswin rescues Merlinus, and Rebecca finishes the archer from where Merlinus was standing.

Turn 1 (cont.): Marcus moves up and breaks the snag leading to the village from the south with his Iron Lance, and the rest of the party arranges themselves like so:

Enemy Turn 1: Lots of snags get attacked/broken. A mercenary doubles Bartre and bandits strike Lowen and Marcus (the latter bandit gets killed). Guy successfully evades the bandit who attacks him and doubles him. Enemies move onto the main island from the western side and give Dorcas and Bartre a hard time with ranged attacks.

Ouch.

Turn 2: Marcus visits the village. Oswin moves east and out of the way, dropping Merlinus west. Dorcas stays where he is and attacks the mage, and then Rebecca moves south 1 to finish him off. Serra moves up to the forest to heal Bartre.

Turn 2 (cont.): Lowen attacks the archer from the east (Iron Lance), Bartre kills the merc who attacked him and Guy finishes off the bandit who attacked him. Hector drops Eliwood north. Matthew stays where he is.

Enemy Turn 2: Eliwood dodges a bandits attack and counters. Dorcas gets hit by an archer, but the archer clogs the western bridge, which is good. Matthew gets struck by a Hand Axe, and Eliwood gets shot by a nomad.

Turn 3: Eliwood kills the bandit who attacked him, and Guy attacks the Hand-Axe bandit from the south. Serra heals Bartre, who then attacks the nomad north of him. Lowen strike the archer once again to finish him, and then Rebecca finishes off the nomad from below.

Lowen is looking pretty solid! Better than Kent, perhaps... We'll have to see about that.

Turn 3 (cont.): Marcus moves back across the bridge and south. Hector wields Wolf Beil to OHKO the nomad north of him. Dorcas takes out the Hand Axe bandit the Guy weakened. Matthew moves south of Eliwood and Oswin south of Rebecca.

Enemy Turn 3: Myrmidon charges Lowen and gets hurt. Another myrmidon slices up Bartre but fails to dodge his counter. Marcus dodges a hand axe, and a nomad misses Eliwood.

Turn 4: Guy moves to the forest east of him and crit-kills the nomad. Marcus kills the nomad near him from above. Bartre kills the myrmidon, and Hector moves up to double and kill the bandit with Wolf Beil from the forest.

This is a great level for Bartre...

but just a normal level up for Hector :)

Turn 4 (cont.): Rebecca shoots the Myrmidon from the forest, and Lowen kills him from the west. Dorcas takes care of the western myrmidon, and Serra heals him from behind. Oswin moves west of Bartre, and Matthew moves onto the bridge north of Eliwood. Finally, Eliwood moves south of Hector to get his C-level support. This provides a good avoid boost for both of them and will be useful throughout the challenge.

I always loved this comment.

Enemy Turn 4: Another bandit suicides on Marcus. A bandit attacks Guy (misses), and one attacks Dorcas (Dorcas misses). A couple of hand axes are thrown in vain at Eliwood (thanks to his recent support), and Guy dodges a nomad's shot

Turn 5: Dorcas rescues Merlinus from the forest. Matthew steals the Vulnerary from west of the bandit. Marcus rescues Matthew and pulls him back below the bridge. Serra heals Bartre,who then waits in front of the bandit on the west bridge. Rebecca moves down to where Serra was to target the bandit, and Guy kills the bandit who attacked him for an incredible level up.

This is... unbelievably awesome! Guy is surely going to be a great unit for us. We've also accumulated enough EXP at this point, so its now time for us to retreat.

Turn 5 (cont.): ...and everyone else retreats en masse like so (Lowen equipped with Iron Sword! Oswin rescues Serra.):

Enemy Turn 5: Guy crit-kills a bandit in a counter. A few more bandits unsucessfully attack Guy and Lowen. Bartre misses a counterattack.

Turn 6: After one more kill, we'll have enough EXP for 5-starring that rank, so the retreat continues. Guy moves 1 north and kills the nomad. Bartre attacks the bandit on his left, and everyone else positions themselves as follows

Enemy Turn 6: A few attacks; not much interesting.

Turn 7: Rebecca kills the retreating bandit, and everyone continues further south.

Enemy Turn 7: A few more attacks, and then we're done!

A stats summary:

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Hector:   6.21  24  12  6   8   4   12  1
Oswin:    9.24  BASE
Matthew:  7.17  23  8   7   16  3   5   2
Serra:    5.95  19  6   7   12  10  3   7
Eliwood:  2.86  19  6   5   8   8   5   1
Marcus:   1.96  BASE
Rebecca:  4.91  18  7   7   9   4   6   2
Lowen:    5.97  26  10  6   10  5   8   0
Bartre:   5.49  32  12  6   6   6   5   0
Dorcas:   6.66  33  8   9   7   4   4   0
Guy:      4.96  26  9   14  14  6   6   2

We have a 3 turn surplus on tactics (lost 1 due the defense chapter mechanic) and a total of 15 tactician stars

And a preview of our overall tactician rank (available at the start of chapter 14):

We have 4 stars in combat since we just barely made the combat rank in chapters 11, 12, and 13x and didn't make it in chapter 13.

Oh, also, in case anyone is wondering, Hector, Lowen, and Rebecca are tied for most kills at 11.

Edited July 22, 2015 by ruadath

[Brinzy]

Super jealous of those growths...

I have to say, even though I've never done it, I've always heard of 13x being done this way, where you spend the last few turns running back. I've never actually had Matthew hold the south and instead I usually sent people to the bottom right and top left to get experience, because I'm a cruel tactician.

So... I am very curious about your strategy on the next map. Are you just aiming for low turns here, or do you have more you're after?

[ruadath]

I have to say, even though I've never done it, I've always heard of 13x being done this way, where you spend the last few turns running back. I've never actually had Matthew hold the south and instead I usually sent people to the bottom right and top left to get experience, because I'm a cruel tactician.

Oh, really? That's quite interesting; I usually always follow the standard route of sending Matthew SE, Guy SW (and up from there), and having everyone else press up north towards Puzon and the village, so this was entirely new for me. In fact, I was not even aware that there was a general strategy of running away on the last few turns, as it was never something I would have found useful (I always wanted more EXP, although I suppose it could be a good tactic if your forces were getting overwhelmed by the constant onslaught of enemies).

One of the things that made this level was tricky was actually precisely the fact that I didn't send anyone to the SE corner (Guy hung around in the middle). This meant that there was no one to distract the bandits around there, and thus Marcus had to rush to the NE village to prevent them from getting there as early as Turn 3 or 4!

So... I am very curious about your strategy on the next map. Are you just aiming for low turns here, or do you have more you're after?

It's quite amusing that I am doing a max tactician star run, and yet Chapter 14 will be only the second chapter that I am able to 5-star. I believe the lowest number of turns the chapter can be completed in is 4, but this requires Marcus to essentially solo the NW half of the map, which is rather quite impractical for my EXP rank (I need 850 for the chapter). I'll probably be looking to clear the map in 6-7 turns; it would be nice to extend my surplus of turns again before Chapter 15 puts me back in the red. Thankfully, I don't really have to worry about funds this map; Erk and Priscilla's initial inventories exactly meet the requirement of 10,000 gold for the chapter, which means that the Iron Blade and Erik's Horseslayer give me (roughly) an addition 2,000G to work with. Add to that the fact that there are several Vulneraries on this map (though I'll probably only steal one of them) and this means I have the opportunity to let Hector Wolf Beil a few cavs.

Besides that, I probably want to focus on using Dorcas a little bit; hopefully he'll be strong enough to hang out at the back and take care of all of the soldiers around there, perhaps with Bartre's/Oswin's help. I'd also like to use Rebecca where possible, though its highly likely that she won't be able to keep up on this map; I need her to get to rank B in bows by the time Chapter 20 rolls around, and despite heavy favoritism with having her take kills, she still hasn't hit C yet.

[Elieson]

Could you have mine glitched ch13 for the funds Rank?

[ruadath]

I don't think so... I don't believe any of the enemies in the chapter have droppable items/weapons, and you don't have Merlinus yet to dump extra items. Could you think of another way to do it? But then again, I was hoping to do this run without resorting to any glitches...

[ruadath]

Could you have mine glitched ch13 for the funds Rank?

Actually, I just realized that this is completely possible! You can have enemies trade their weapons over to Guy, which then increases your funds rank when you recruit him! Do you think it is worth it for me to restart to do this, and would you consider this to be "cheating"?

If not, to what extent am I allowed to use the mine in Chapter 13 (it could be used to trivialize the enemy force by having them drop all their weapons)? Am I also allowed to use the other mine later on to help with funds later on (even if its not strictly necessary)? What about to get Vaida's Uber Spear?

I'd appreciate some feedback on this, as I can't move on with the playthrough until this issue has been sorted out.

Edited July 22, 2015 by ruadath

[Paper Jam]

There are two archers, a soldier, and a cavalier near Guy, aren't there? I would guess that the archers each have an Iron Bow; that's 1080 gold right there.

Does the cavalier have an Iron Sword? That's 460 gold.

At any rate, using the mine trick to make those enemies trade their weapons to Guy will only give you a net profit of about 1000 gold, since you lose 500 for using the mine, unless they're armed with steel rather than iron. Is that enough?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Paper Jam

[ruadath]

Yes, it's plenty (as long as Matthew gets to steal some Vulneraries from someone too).

One only needs to get 3600G for the chapter to get 5-stars. Guy's Killing Edge plus the Torch gives you 1800G. Suppose you trade the Iron Bows plus an Iron Lance (I don't think the Cavalier has a sword) to Guy. You could actually also get an additional Iron Lance by trading away the Vulnerary. This would already give you 1080+720=1800G which puts you at the requirement of 3600G.

Matthew just needs to steal some vulneraries to give you breathing room with the money in order for you to use weapons. Since Guy traded away his Vulnerary, there are actually 3 available to steal now, one probably in a reasonably good position to do so. It's seems like it is just barely possible (if you still want to 5-turn the chapter), but it does seem doable.

[Elieson]

Yes, it's plenty (as long as Matthew gets to steal some Vulneraries from someone too).

One only needs to get 3600G for the chapter to get 5-stars. Guy's Killing Edge plus the Torch gives you 1800G. Suppose you trade the Iron Bows plus an Iron Lance (I don't think the Cavalier has a sword) to Guy. You could actually also get an additional Iron Lance by trading away the Vulnerary. This would already give you 1080+720=1800G which puts you at the requirement of 3600G.

Matthew just needs to steal some vulneraries to give you breathing room with the money in order for you to use weapons. Since Guy traded away his Vulnerary, there are actually 3 available to steal now, one probably in a reasonably good position to do so. It's seems like it is just barely possible (if you still want to 5-turn the chapter), but it does seem doable.

What's the turn requirement? I assume you'd be able to afford time to steal back the Vulnerary that Guy trades away.

Also, the Boss has a Steel Lance. You could totally Trade-chain it to Guy somehow. Also, it gets Matthew some xtra EXP if you can afford to not need him in a battle.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Elieson

[ruadath]

Oh, the turn requirement is much greater than that (12 turns). I would just like to make up the time so that, if I can get a 5-turn clear of chapter 14 as well, I'll never have to drop below 5-stars on the tactician rank (requires a surplus of 8 turns before chapter 15), which would be a nice bonus challenge to this run.

[ruadath]

Thanks for the input, everyone! Following your advice, I have decided to restart in order to 5-star Chapter 13. Since I don't have any backup saves from HHM, I restarted from the beginning of Chapter 11. I just finished redoing Chapter 12, following pretty much the same strategy as last time, except changing some turn order in order to get Hector to proc more Spd levels, at the expense of some Def/Res. Here is the unit breakdown before Chapter 13:

Name:     Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
Hector:   5.36  23  11  7   9   4   10  0
Oswin:    9.34  BASE
Matthew:  6.93  22  7   7   15  2   5   1
Serra:    5.07  19  6   7   12  10  3   7
Eliwood:  1.41  BASE
Marcus:   1.00  BASE
Rebecca:  2.17  18  5   5   7   4   4   1
Lowen:    3.08  24  8   6   8   3   7   0
Bartre:   3.10  30  10  5   4   5   4   0
Dorcas:   5.85  32  8   9   7   4   3   0

[Elieson]

9 speed Hector is deliciously fast

[ruadath]

I think the 5 turn clear of Chapter 12 might not be possible while trying to get 750 EXP, perform the mine glitch, and steal a Vulnerary. I'm not certain yet, because I haven't yet tried the age old "Michael rows the boat ashore" "Hector crosses the river" strategy. But in the case that it turns out not to work, I may have to settle for using more turns. This is fine in terms of the max tactician stars challenge, as I am allowed 12 turns for the chapter, but simply prevents me from always having an S-rank once battle preparations are available.

Edited July 23, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Based on my current observations, it seems at the mine glitch prevents enemy reinforcements from being called for the rest of the chapter. Can anyone confirm this, and if possible, provide a workaround?

[Brinzy]

I don't readily recall this being a thing. I remember doing this glitch to get the Uber Spear years ago and I am pretty sure units spawned to attack Vaida anyway.

But, I can't prove this, so I guess my post is useless.

[ruadath]

Well, thankfully it seems (I hope) that this is going to be a non-issue anyway. Thanks to having Lowen rush (suicidally, one might add) to get to the village by turn 2, I am now able to perform the mine glitch on turn 3 which should allow me to complete the chapter in 5 turns.

Since I can now have the enemies move up earlier, this should allow me time to have Matthew both talk to Guy and steal one Vulnerary. In addition, it turns out its possible to easily get 3, or even 4 (!) Iron Bows to Guy. The question now is whether or not I would like to have access to the Steel Lance a bit earlier at a cost of 60G. I can see it potentially being useful for Lowen during Chapter 14, but after that I think we get one from Sain anyway.

What do you guys think? Would you have Guy bring along 3 Iron Bows and the Steel Lance, or would you just take 4 Iron Bows?

[Brinzy]

Sain brings an Iron Lance in HHM. I would take the Steel Lance, because I would imagine that it would get some form of use at some point or another in your playthrough, while a fourth Iron Bow really won't mean much in the end.

[Elieson]

Sain brings an Iron Lance in HHM. I would take the Steel Lance

Steel Lance. If anything, it might help Oswin with a little extra Offense for some OHKOs to help that Tactics rank out a bit

[Brinzy]

Were you quoting me just to agree or to say Sain starts with Steel? In case it's the latter, I recorded it and he definitely has an Iron Lance in HHM.

[Elieson]

Oh, I was quoting to agree with you. Sain does start with an Iron, AND I think that taking the Steel Lance > Iron Bow#4 will be more useful in the long run

[ruadath]

I agree as well, going for the Steel Lance.

Based on my current observations, it seems at the mine glitch prevents enemy reinforcements from being called for the rest of the chapter. Can anyone confirm this, and if possible, provide a workaround?

Also, I'm not sure what happened earlier, but the enemy reinforcements appeared. Maybe I just didn't see them last time.