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Ansem

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I suppose this actually is a bit of a shame. Spicer was probably the most likeable of the group. It's easy to see this guy as merely Trump's court jester, having to constantly justify Trump's actions just for the man to casually contradict him on a whim. He also didn't seem to enjoy what he was doing, especially if you put him next to Conway who seems to have way to much fun putting on that fake smile of her's while expressing thinly veiled contempt for the people who have to listen to her "alternative facts".

Edited by BrightBow
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2 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

Also trump asked if he could pardon himself or his family

LOL

I'm 90% sure the precedent set by United States v. Nixon would compel a reviewing court to find: "No. He can't." 

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He's doing so much shit to look like the guiltiest innocent man recently in regards to Russian ties that it's hard to see news on much else. The thing I found interesting is that in his current renegotiating of NAFTA, he has added provisions from the TPP.

I'm sure all the people that like America's free trade agreements will get right on giving him praise for that.

https://www.thenation.com/article/trumps-renegotiation-of-nafta-is-starting-to-look-a-lot-like-the-tpp/

Only Trump could take credit for 'killing' TPP when it was already dead on arrival before he entered office, and when "renegotiating" NAFTA just add TPP provisions to it, like a "globalists" dream

Edited by Tryhard
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Despite all the frailties he did, it's not that he much choice in his statements.
He had done actually a good job as Republican before he took his job under Trump's gorvenment.
Spicer wasn't the first choice for this office and you could see that he felt absolutely not comfortable in his job. 
It's definitely the best for him to quit right now not to ruin his image even more which wasn't definitely all his own fault.
I still respect and like this guy.

Edited by Reimu Hakurei
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Well, even if he asked about pardoning himself and his family yesterday, he came out on twitter and pretty much said it publicly. Bonus points for getting in that leaking is a crime (pretty much acting like the Democrats who were only concerned about whoever leaked the DNC emails) and FAKE NEWS at the end, somehow? Why would you pardon someone if they did not commit a crime? Got to love that he explicitly says the only crime "so far", as well. 

He also called the Democrats obstructionists over Obamacare, which is also hilarious.

Edited by Tryhard
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23 hours ago, Res said:

Ooh, Sean Spicer has resigned.

I'm quite surprised. I always figured he was going to get fired.

Since his debut was a blatant lie about something as petty as the crowd on the inauguration I initially thought Spicer was just yet another freak in the Trump administration. Over time however I just started to pity the poor guy. Spending so much time trying to justify the nonsense Trump comes up with(or hiding in the bushes) probably wasn't how Spicer wanted his job to be either.  

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33 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm quite surprised. I always figured he was going to get fired.

Since his debut was a blatant lie about something as petty as the crowd on the inauguration I initially thought Spicer was just yet another freak in the Trump administration. Over time however I just started to pity the poor guy. Spending so much time trying to justify the nonsense Trump comes up with(or hiding in the bushes) probably wasn't how Spicer wanted his job to be either.  

Petty blatant lies aren't a fireable offense at this White House--they're s basic job requirement.Sean's problem was he wasn't very good at it...he couldn't sell the lies. Thus new guy they got their now; Scaramucci. He gave Trump the full North Korean "Dear Leader" Treatment. Spent his entire first press conference gushing with love for the guy and proclaiming him the greatest politicical genius in history, and praising everything from his competitive drive and work ethic and competitive drive to his amazing athletic abilities and golf game. That's what Trump was looking for--fucking psycho.

Edited by Shoblongoo
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2 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

With this much incompetence I wonder how Trump could have possibly still be a billionaire through no less than two personal bankruptcies. 

From my understanding, he's had a lot of business failures. He could still very well be a billionaire (which is in doubt until we see some tax returns) but never filed for personal bankruptcy.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-bankruptcies/

He's really shitty at business anyway.

Edited by Lord Raven
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On 7/22/2017 at 6:24 PM, Lord Raven said:

From my understanding, he's had a lot of business failures. He could still very well be a billionaire (which is in doubt until we see some tax returns) but never filed for personal bankruptcy.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-bankruptcies/

He's really shitty at business anyway.

…oh its substantially worse than that…

And understanding this is vital to understanding why he runs his White House the way he does because an old dog doesn’t learn new tricks. He’s the same scumbag as a dirty-dealing fraudster of a politician that he was as a dirty-dealing fraudster of a businessman—this is why a man of his character and background never should have been allowed anywhere near the Oval Office.

Trump ran his business as a professional litigant. That is to say he engaged in a pattern and practice of the most unethical, underhanded, legally frowned-upon methods of unfair trade practice with a general  attitude of:  They don’t like it? Fuck em! They can sue me!” KNOWING:

1) That he can outspend damn-near-anyone in court costs and attorney fees.  He can certainly afford to spend more than—say—the general contractors who just put up one of his hotels for $200 million worth of labor and material, and are on the verge of becoming financially insolvent because they never got paid.

2) If he derails litigation hard enough that you have to spend half a million dollars on lawyers wading through frivolous cross-motions and counter-claims, before you can even take a shot at him on the underlying issue of “…hey asshole…we built a hotel for you and you never paid us for materials or labor…”, litigation will eventually become too expensive for his opponents to pursue and they will drop their case.

3) As long as he spends less in legal fees to litigate a matter than he would spend rendering performance in good faith on the matter in dispute—say—paying the general contractors who just  put up his hotel for materials and labor, he comes out ahead-of-the-game.

Donald Trump, before becoming president, appeared as a named party in over three thousand (3,000) lawsuits. He did this all the time.

SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE LAWS OF BANKRUPTCY

...Donald Trump understood that declaring bankruptcy could legally discharge his duty to pay certain debts, and require persons seeking restitution for non-payment to appear as filing parties in bankruptcy court + institute actions to enforce creditor’s  rights.

So what Donald Trump got into the habit of doing was running up huge debts to his contractors.  His sub-contractors. His investors. His employees. Just flat-out refuse to pay them agreed upon sums for their work in his various business ventures; instead making them sue him for fraud and breach of contract and unjust enrichment to  receive payment.

Then in the course of litigation, he declares bankruptcy.

The bankruptcy proceedings put a hold on the civil action.

The persons who Trump cheated out of payment now have to go to bankruptcy court, argue that Trump frivolously filed bankruptcy to defraud his creditors. Before they can get back to civil.

Then on top of that, Trump files counter-suit for defamation or construction defect or something stupid.

…And starts filing motions accusing you of litigating in bad faith to distract from your own misconduct + demanding to know why you haven’t produced evidence of [insert fabricated bad conduct here].

…And starts threatening to sue your attorneys for professional malpractice in instituting a frivolous lawsuit, if they don’t withdraw their “clearly frivolous” claim for payment against a bankrupt party.

(side-note:  that’s exactly how he’s treating the Russia investigation. EXACTLY how he’s treating the Russian matter.)

…And then the persons defrauded by Trump withdraw their suit and eat their losses, because that’s more money than anyone who isn’t a billionaire can spend on court costs and attorney fees.

So Trump just straight up cheated someone who was depending on  getting paid for the work they did for him out-of-business. Using completely unethical and questionably legal tactics.

Trump keeps all the money.

And he walks away thinking: “I just spent  $10 million on lawyers instead of $200 million on paying my contractors. I saved $190 million. I’m such a good businessman!”

Then he goes out and sells it to the next poor sucker as him making all this money because hes such a great negotiator and makes  the best deals—you’ll get rich too if you make a deal with him.

..and he does it again to the next guy…

That’s why Donald Trump kept declaring bankruptcy.

The man is a con artist piece of shit, through-and-through.
   

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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15 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

*snip*

Contemptible? Absolutely. Petty? Yes. Stupid? Anyone who can fuck over that many people deserves a Nobel Prize. Worse still, it's perfectly legal to do that if you are the 1% like he is. If he gave two rats asses about being a decent human being, he would have paid his people instead of being in the White House right now. Money might not buy happiness, but it can allow you to inflict pain on those without it, which means in could make you happy, if you're a sadist.

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McCain, fresh from having his life saved through health insurance, has just voted in favor of talks with the goal of taking away insurance from tens of millions of Americans. Now that the issue has affected him personally he chooses what shall be his lasting legacy ~

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1 hour ago, Gustavos said:

McCain, fresh from having his life saved through health insurance, has just voted in favor of talks with the goal of taking away insurance from tens of millions of Americans. Now that the issue has affected him personally he chooses what shall be his lasting legacy ~

McCain today gave one of the best speeches I have ever heard a public servant give in my life time, reminded me one-more-time why I love the guy. And at some point I'm going to see if I can find a copy of it to link here because in the age of Trump people actually need to be reminded what a respectable statesman sounds like.

Dunno if you heard it.

But he basically called out the entire Senate for being a bunch of partisan do-nothings--the worst he's seen in his 30 year career as a United States Senator. Called the current healthcare proposal Republicans are trying to ram through a "Hollow Shell of a Bill" that does nothing to fix any problems with the Healthcare system. Excoriated his party for refusing to work with Democrats. Said he would NOT vote for passage of the bill in its current form, but that he was voting to open debate purely in hopes that his party would grow up and put on its big-boy pants and work with Democrats to produce a bipartisan bill that fixes the problems with the American healthcare system.

And said that he expected the bill to fail if Republicans did not change course, open the process, and continued to go the way they were going.

He cemented his legacy today as one of the alll-time-greats. And one of the last men in Washington who's there for the right reasons.

__________
EDIT: Here it is. McCain's full speech from the Senate floor. Just a little over 15 minutes long. Worth a listen. Its a sad rarity these days.

This is what a serious political figure and man of good character sounds like: 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/politics/john-mccain-floor-speech/index.html

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

McCain today gave one of the best speeches I have ever heard a public servant give in my life time, reminded me one-more-time why I love the guy. And at some point I'm going to see if I can find a copy of it to link here because in the age of Trump people actually need to be reminded what a respectable statesman sounds like.

Dunno if you heard it.
 

Oh I read it before I made my mean spirited post. Glad you got some good vibes from it because that makes one of us. I didn't finish reading because I was tired of this classicly constructed "these are my golden years" speech. Yada yada, "both sides are the problem". I only see one side trying to kill people. Where was this impassioned speech about senate inaction during the gun control debate last year? Oh, he opposes restrictions, got it. No need to advance the debate on this. I would be far more impressed by McCain if he could say "republicans are the problem" without flanking that statement with "democrats are also the problem". It's reductively diplomatic. "We've got a lot of problems and nobody's doing anything"? Noooooo shit.

And I'm not gonna sit here and debate the man's feelings. The bottom line is that the republicans, who are not our friends, made a major step forward thanks to him. Perhaps thanks ONLY to him. I agree with him that the bill should not pass in its current state, I also agreed with him that the Trump platform has no chance of winning. Now we can all be wrong again together.

Edited by Gustavos
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6 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Contemptible? Absolutely. Petty? Yes. Stupid? Anyone who can fuck over that many people deserves a Nobel Prize. Worse still, it's perfectly legal to do that if you are the 1% like he is. If he gave two rats asses about being a decent human being, he would have paid his people instead of being in the White House right now. Money might not buy happiness, but it can allow you to inflict pain on those without it, which means in could make you happy, if you're a sadist.

What point are you making?

@ McCain, my main issue with McCain is that he really does say things like that but still opts to vote among party lines. I hope he sticks by his statement. For now, it's just empty posturing to me.

Edited by Lord Raven
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Just now, Lord Raven said:

What point are you making?

 I was commenting on that long post shoblongoo made. You could accuse Donald Trump of being many things, but if he has the legal clout to screw people out of their well owned money, then he doesn't really deserve to be called an idiot. He's despicable, but not stupid. He says and does stupid shit, but him having the foresight to be that avaricious means that he doesn't exist in a perpetual state of stupidity, which doesn't exactly fit into the media narrative, left or right.

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35 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

 I was commenting on that long post shoblongoo made. You could accuse Donald Trump of being many things, but if he has the legal clout to screw people out of their well owned money, then he doesn't really deserve to be called an idiot. He's despicable, but not stupid. He says and does stupid shit, but him having the foresight to be that avaricious means that he doesn't exist in a perpetual state of stupidity, which doesn't exactly fit into the media narrative, left or right.

I'll keep this one short--Of course Trump isn't stupid.

He lacks decency, truthfulness, and shame. Not intelligence.
 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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I've got some respect for McCain, but I don't understand why he signed this healthcare bill when he clearly has a problem with it. I can agree with some of the things he's saying recently, but he still went ahead and approved every Trump position, like Betsy DeVos, AFAIK. He had the nickname 'Maverick' but it seems like he's just towing party lines these days, even though the man clearly has an issue with Trump. I understand that the "deciding vote" is going to get absolutely brutalised by the Republicans if it didn't go in favor of, but I don't really see McCain wanting to hold an official position for much longer. I really don't see anything from going to debate resulting in a good outcome.

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

I'll keep this one short--Of course Trump isn't stupid.

He lacks decency, truthfulness, and shame. Not intelligence.

I'd say he's cunning, but not intelligent. He knows very little about how government works and general knowledge and understanding of the world or does not care to educate himself on them.

It takes some intelligence to be able to manipulate people, but I wouldn't say Trump is a fountain of knowledge.

And for the Trump quote of the day, from a rally in Ohio:

Quote

One by one, we are finding the illegal gang members, drug dealers, thieves, robbers, criminals, and killers. And we are sending them the hell back home where they came from.

 [applause] And once they are gone, we will never let them back in, believe me. [applause]

The predators and criminal aliens who poison our communities with drugs and prey on innocent young people — these beautiful, beautiful, innocent young people — will find no safe haven anywhere in our country. [applause] And you’ve seen the stories about some of these animals. They don’t want to use guns, because it’s too fast and it’s not painful enough. So they’ll take a young, beautiful girl, 16, 15, and others, and they slice them and dice them with a knife, because they want them to go through excruciating pain before they die. And these are the animals that we’ve been protecting for so long. Well, they’re not being protected any longer, folks. [applause]

He's of course deliberately obscuring the fact that he's referring to illegal immigrants (most of which have no history of violence) when he says this.

Edited by Tryhard
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4 hours ago, Tryhard said:

I've got some respect for McCain, but I don't understand why he signed this healthcare bill when he clearly has a problem with it.

It's not a healthcare bill. It's a bill that basically says "we will continue the debate on healthcare in the Senate." He did it in good faith that they would, but called them out while they were at it.

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6 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

It's not a healthcare bill. It's a bill that basically says "we will continue the debate on healthcare in the Senate." He did it in good faith that they would, but called them out while they were at it.

Sure, but he also could have just killed it going to debate in the first place. We all know it's not going to get any better. He's not going to have many friends on the right or left at the end of this.

And it seemed like he did vote in favour of the repeal and replace plan (with no changes) on Tuesday night, not just the motion to proceed to debate. Not like it mattered though because this first vote required 60 votes in favour of.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/us/politics/senate-health-care.html

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/us/politics/100000005307528.app.html

Quote

The Senate voted narrowly on Tuesday to begin debate on a bill to repeal major provisions of the Affordable Care Act, but hours later, Republican leaders suffered a setback when their most comprehensive plan to replace President Barack Obama’s health law fell far short of the votes it needed.

The Tuesday night tally needed to reach 60 votes to overcome a parliamentary objection. Instead, it fell 43-57. The fact that the comprehensive replacement plan came up well short of even 50 votes was an ominous sign for Republican leaders still seeking a formula to pass final health care legislation this week.

...

“Asking us to swallow our doubts and force it past a unified opposition — I don’t think that’s going to work in the end, and probably shouldn’t,” Mr. McCain said, adding that it “seems likely” that the current repeal effort would end in failure. Still, Mr. McCain voted with Republican leaders in favor of the comprehensive replacement plan on Tuesday night.

And lastly, Trump getting to the bottom of the real issues:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/trump-latest/?lf-content=205210525:lb-post-7e2e5d75c2e8c782906deafbd86f3ac7@livefyre.com&hubRefSrc=permalink

Edited by Tryhard
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So Trump recently banned transgender people from the US military.

Out of curiosity, what was Trump's view on LGBT rights when he got elected? Because I distinctly remember a picture last year, of Trump holding the LGBT flag.

Edited by Water Mage
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