General US Politics

[Shoblongoo]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

"It's hard to believe Trump has any consistent political ideology, be it fascism, far-right ideology, or any other, to be honest. He's all over the place. Remember when he advocated for "taking the guns away without due process", lol. And really you don't even need to look that far back before he ran in 2015 to see him advocating universal healthcare and being pro-choice."

The thing about Trump is that first and foremost: he's a salesman. All that matters is that he makes the sale.

In business, that means putting his gold-plated name on an $85 bottle of vodka and selling it for $2,000 a bottle as the luxury drink of billionaire playboys (its an ordinary bottle of vodka with a Gold "T" on it)

In politics, that means comparable acts of electoral con-artistry.

He certainly cares nothing for the truth or falsity or consistency or inconsistency of anything that comes out of his mouth, and concerns himself only with the extent to which he can sell what he is saying.

But the one place where he's been remarkably consistent since Day #1 of his presidency is in selling the idea that America is getting screwed by foreigners. And that after decades of being sold out by our leaders to the Mexicans and the Chinese and the Globalist elite--he's the American's American who's going to fix it.

Paired with his consistently corrupt and authoritarian tendencies; that core message is an unmistakably fascist one.  

Edited June 21, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Excellen Browning]

corruption and authoritarianism doesn't make you a fascist. It makes you a republican.

[Shoblongoo]

23 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said:

corruption and authoritarianism doesn't make you a fascist.

...did you read my response to @Leslie???
 

23 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said:

 It makes you a republican.

None of that now. No party has a monopoly on corruption. 
______

@eclipse I keep getting this bug where I get locked out of editing old posts, and can't go back and fix my typos.

"This comment can no longer be edited."

I make these big posts. Then I find typos. Then I go back and try to edit them and I can't do it (but the smaller ones never look me out).

Whats up with that?  Do you automatically get locked out of making edits if a post is too long? 
 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Leslie]

Thanks for the response, @Shoblongoo. I’ll reply later when I have more time.

I’d like to point out that I’ve been having the same problem with editing my post, even only seconds after posting it. Thought it was just me.

[Balcerzak]

Are these troubles consistent and persistent? I remember seeing a similar issue once, but I thought it resolved itself on its own. If you could better document what's happening, it might help with a diagnosis more than just an anecdote.

[Tryhard]

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

But the one place where he's been remarkably consistent since Day #1 of his presidency is in selling the idea that America is getting screwed by foreigners. And that after decades of being sold out by our leaders to the Mexicans and the Chinese and the Globalist elite--he's the American's American who's going to fix it.

Paired with his consistently corrupt and authoritarian tendencies; that core message is an unmistakably fascist one.  

Yes, I think that is one of his core and consistent messages. But I view that by itself as a nationalistic and xenophobic view, and not necessarily any more than that by itself.

I think the closest you can maybe say is that Trump would see the most benefit for himself from a country under either corporate statism or corporate nationalism. This might be fitting, considering it was one of Mussolini's tenets of Italian fascism. I think corporate nationalism would be the closest I could abscribe to Trump's political ideology.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Tryhard

[Shoblongoo]

1 hour ago, Balcerzak said:

Are these troubles consistent and persistent? I remember seeing a similar issue once, but I thought it resolved itself on its own. If you could better document what's happening, it might help with a diagnosis more than just an anecdote.

I'll let you know the next time it happens 

7 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

Yes, I think that is one of his core and consistent messages. But I view that by itself as a nationalistic and xenophobic view, and not necessarily any more than that by itself.

I think the closest you can maybe say is that Trump would see the most benefit for himself from a country under either corporate statism or corporate nationalism. This might be fitting, considering it was one of Mussolini's tenets of Italian fascism. I think corporate nationalism would be the closest I could abscribe to Trump's political ideology.

So if not presently in the case of Trump being Trump--when in your opinion does "authoritarianisn with a core message of nationalism and xenophobia" cross the line from "not necessarily any more that that" to fascism?  

If you asked me explain as briefly and succinctly as you can in 10 words or less what fascism is, I'd probably have to say something along the lines of "authoritarianism with a core message of nationalism and xenophobia"

[Tryhard]

9 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

If you asked me explain as briefly and succinctly as you can in 10 words or less what fascism is, I'd probably have to say something along the lines of "authoritarianism with a core message of nationalism and xenophobia"

My definition: "radical authoritarian ultranationalism with dictatorial power and totalitarian one party state", forgive me the extra word.

While the first part may be fitting, I can't in good conscience call Trump a dictator. I don't think it's fitting to really assume what would happen if he wasn't held back by US systems.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Tryhard

[Excellen Browning]

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...did you read my response to @Leslie???
 

No of course not. Do you even read your own posts?

[RandomJC]

Not feeling like arguing Fascism, since I'm woefully under qualified to do such a thing. But I caught bits of his "Space Force" speech, and all I could think of he's describing NASA, just without the overt militarism. It almost makes me think Trump doesn't realize we've been to the moon.

[Shoblongoo]

[Dr. Tarrasque]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/19/morally-bankrupt-after-tax-cuts-richest-house-gop-unveils-54-trillion-attack-nations

No surprise. Warned several times. Still infuriating.

Makes you wish that it would be extremely easy to get all non-republican voters to a more prosperous country and leave the MAGA morons to get scammed and fucked by those they keep voting for.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Tryhard]

this previous type of sentiment sums it up for me:

                                

My question is: if/when it comes around to hurting in the pocket or affecting them personally, will they understand what caused this?

Edited June 21, 2018 by Tryhard

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

My question is: if/when it comes around to hurting in the pocket or affecting them personally, will they understand what caused this?

Well that depends to what extent you're referring to and regardless of that, results will vary. Here's a few groups I think we'd see.

1. Some will simply blame the government because people like Trump supporters will just throw blame at anyone/anything else and be upset because now it's directly hurting them.

2. Some of the people who voted for Trump and now regret it will admit that they brought it upon themselves by voting for the corrupt Republicans and not listening to fellow ordinary people.

3. Some will blame Obama and Hillary Clinton's e-mails.

4. Plenty will still vote Republicans because they'll be convinced that the cuts taking place are to take those benefits away from the "immigrants that are just mooching off of hard working REAL Amerucans".

Edited June 21, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[MacLovin]

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

this previous type of sentiment sums it up for me:

                                

My question is: if/when it comes around to hurting in the pocket or affecting them personally, will they understand what caused this?

Most likely not.

i mean chances are, they just latch on to whatever new/old thing that they perceive as a threat and blame it on them. Deep State, Trump, Hillary/Obama/DNC Emails, yadda yadda.

 

It's likely that these are the kinds of people who go to infowars for their news.

[eclipse]

14 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...did you read my response to @Leslie???
 

None of that now. No party has a monopoly on corruption. 
______

@eclipse I keep getting this bug where I get locked out of editing old posts, and can't go back and fix my typos.

"This comment can no longer be edited."

I make these big posts. Then I find typos. Then I go back and try to edit them and I can't do it (but the smaller ones never look me out).

Whats up with that?  Do you automatically get locked out of making edits if a post is too long? 
 

 

13 hours ago, Leslie said:

Thanks for the response, @Shoblongoo. I’ll reply later when I have more time.

I’d like to point out that I’ve been having the same problem with editing my post, even only seconds after posting it. Thought it was just me.

 

13 hours ago, Balcerzak said:

Are these troubles consistent and persistent? I remember seeing a similar issue once, but I thought it resolved itself on its own. If you could better document what's happening, it might help with a diagnosis more than just an anecdote.

I'll respond to all three of you at once.  It's an issue with the post length.  It's a terribly-worded error message.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

You are a Rapist and an Animal Because Trump said so

But because the Trump administration hides facts, I'll buy that the country would be better off without immigrants 

What do you do against all of this? The only thing we're getting is "Vote Blue in November" but Russia is poised to interfere and Republicans are trying to cut non-Republican voters from being able to vote. If the Midterm elections fail, is it time for a revolution?

[Lord Raven]

Well currently, other nations are targeting sanctions at districts who voted in Paul Ryan, Nancy Pelosi, and Mitch McConnell, so maybe other countries will have our back on this.

[Shoblongoo]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

The only thing we're getting is "Vote Blue in November" 

...then thats what we do...

In every competitive state, and in overwhelming numbers. 

Its an inelegant solution. But the institutional constraints that stop us from doing anything more--drastic--are the same institutional constraints that stop the Trumps of the country from becoming the Kim Jongs or the Dutertes or the Putins, so be glad that they're still in place. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Karimlan]

27 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Its an inelegant solution. But the institutional constraints that stop us from doing anything more--drastic--are the same institutional constraints that stop the Trumps of the country from becoming the Kim Jongs or the Dutertes or the Putins, so be glad that they're still in place. 

Yep. The check-and-balance system, right there. This is about the best (not to mention the most prudent) way to stem the tide of the idiocy pervading youse guys' neck of the woods.

[Captain Karnage]

4 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

What do you do against all of this?

Build the wall

Inforce immigration policy and have them go through the legal channels to have them become naturalized citizens, or to get them a green card.

Is it that horrendous for a country to enforce its laws?

[Tryhard]

26 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Is it that horrendous for a country to enforce its laws?

Depending on if the laws are shit, yes.

Hence why sending non-violent drug offenders to prison for smoking marijuana isn't a good aspect of the law.

Immigration is a generally gray area.

26 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Build the wall

This isn't going to actually happen.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Edgelord

[Shoblongoo]

34 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Is it that horrendous for a country to enforce its laws?

It is horrendous to enforce laws on a theory of strict legalism simply for the sake of enforcing laws without first making a threshold inquiry into whether the law is humane and just. And to rationalize inhumanity and cruelty as something excusable or worse--praiseworthy--because it is done in the name of upholding the laws of your nation.

The Law divorced from humanity, morality, and empathy is just a justification for horror stories:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014
 

34 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Build the wall

 

9 minutes ago, Edgelord said:

This isn't going to actually happen.

  
 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Excellen Browning]

25 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

Build the wall

Inforce immigration policy and have them go through the legal channels to have them become naturalized citizens, or to get them a green card.

Is it that horrendous for a country to enforce its laws?

You've been drinking the Fox and Friends kool-aid I suspect. Here's a dose of reality for you:

Both the Bush and Obama administrations enforced illegal border crossers rather harshly. Literally the only difference between then and now is the judicial step - and to boot, that practically means they spend 1-2 more days in jail than during the Obama admin due to time served, and are then thrown out the same way. All it accomplishes is clogging up the judiciary by an insane amount and a mountain of heinous shit.

Oh and by the way, asylum seekers have been getting turned away since the Obama admin at least, even the clear cut cases that would obviously get asylum if they were to be allowed to submit the request. And this has gotten way worse with the Trump admin.

[Lord Raven]

In lighter news, thank god for Maryland

(Chappelle and Jealous grew up in adjacent counties, and Jealous is currently my county executive -- Prince George's County is wonderful. Have an atlantic article: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/ben-jealous-a-former-naacp-chief-tries-to-reclaim-populism/563597/)

Edited June 25, 2018 by Lord Raven