General US Politics

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

I was bringing up how the media will cut out a segment of a much larger segment to add fuel to their own fire and I was trying to emphasize that he was referring to a military leader, and that he was hard to beat. Trump was saying he's hard to beat.

But that's already in the video because there's audio of Trump saying Robert E Lee was a "great general", won "battle after battle", "Lincoln developed a phobia: he couldn't beat Robert E Lee" and "he had all of these generals". If your concern is perhaps that people might interpret Trump saying "Robert E. Lee was a great person" instead of what's in the video, with all of the audio present in that video, is it really NBC News at fault here or the person making that interpretation? You wanna talk about Media cutting out a segment to add fuel to the fire? Try looking at Fox News

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

But you know what they say, cheaters never win

Hmm, you may want to choose your words more carefully...

Breitbart and other conservative media like the Daily Caller find an inaccurate statement by a political opponent and figure "AHA! a clip I can use to fuel hatred of undocumented immigrants AND the Democrats". - Standard affair.

Here's why I said you should choose your words more carefully: You post this and the way you frame it implies that this candidate is potentially (or definitely) cheating. As Johann pointed out, the real cheating in the Georgia elections is by Kemp, details covered in the article that he posted. Here's why an accusation of cheating in this election on Stacey Abrams is both premature and inaccurate: 

1. Who is eligible to vote is determined by the state.

2. Voting registration criteria is clearly established on Georgia's voting rules. That immediately establishes that undocumented immigrants cannot vote, this clip from Breitbart does not do anything to prove that undocumented immigrants are voting in Georgia and that Stacey Abrams is enabling it.

If you suggest that she should be accused of cheating in order to win this election then I have this to say: "Innocent until proven guilty". There's proof that Kemp, her opponent, IS purging voters, some saying that 70% of those purges are black voters.

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

FFS, we need to make sure that they are with their parents, not human traffickers. I believe that we need more people working these cases to speed up the process.

BOLD: Ah, good old right-wing defense of this atrocious policy. If this was as problematic as Fox News would like you to believe, they would be able to provide statistics showing evidence that this is a substantial problem. If you want to prevent this, you make DNA testing of the parent and child part of the due process in these situations, you don't discriminately decide to target a specific ethnic group and take away their kids when they're seeking asylum. There's illegal immigration cases from European countries but you never hear about those from Fox News now do you?

UNDERLINE: That's fine, I wouldn't disagree that. Know who did disagree with you though? Your president.

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

and stop acting like this didn't happen

I didn't act like Trump had not ordered this to be stopped. I stated

Quote

Hitler was a monster for order the internment of Jews. Trump is a monster for approving the internment of kids after taking them away from parents who came seeking asylum. 

Just because Trump later on decided to stop that (after blaming the Democrats and saying it is they who have to stop it by paying for the wall), doesn't mean it didn't happen and that he's not accountable for it and do remember that there were kids his lackeys couldn't return to their parents and many are now being adopted. If that is what it means though, then feel free to kidnap several children, declare you'll no longer do it and return many but not all of them to their parents and we'll see how well that holds up in court. If you're white, let's see it with the perpetrator being black.

40 minutes ago, Johann said:

Ya know, something tells me that they're not as sorry about how that went down as you might think

Hell, there's little that we know about Trump apologizing and being remorseful for but some of the few things we do know on that front aren't exactly painting him in a good image.

When it comes to the Separation policy, if there's anything that Trump is "sorry" for, it's that it didn't work out how he wanted and the backlash was massive enough to make him budge on it.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Life]

Quote

When offered to clear his name by running a thorough investigation, he dodged the question several times.

Not that I want to defend the man but this is important.

Kamala Harris never asked if Kavanaugh would be OK with an FBI investigation. She specifically asked him to request an FBI investigation in order to clear his name. Check it out for yourself, there is a major difference between the two. Mostly because Kavanaugh answered the first question but did not request an investigation.

Why would Kavanaugh need to request an FBI investigation if he is innocent until proven guilty? The only reason I can think of would be so that a full investigation would stall out the nomination until after midterms.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Life

[Dr. Tarrasque]

24 minutes ago, Life said:

Not that I want to defend the man but this is important.

Kamala Harris never asked if Kavanaugh would be OK with an FBI investigation. She specifically asked him to request an FBI investigation in order to clear his name. Check it out for yourself, there is a major difference between the two. Mostly because Kavanaugh answered the first question but did not request an investigation.

Why would Kavanaugh need to request an FBI investigation if he is innocent until proven guilty? The only reason I can think of would be so that a full investigation would stall out the nomination until after midterms.

The Democrats made the suggestion quoting Kavanaugh saying "I welcomed any investigation, Senate, FBI, etc". See for yourself. They suggested it to Kavanaugh because obviously if they suggested it to Trump, who has the ultimate authority on the matter, it wouldn't happen.

Did the Democrats suggest the investigation in hopes of stalling the nomination? Of course they did, both sides are guilty of playing politics here in this debacle but at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that Kavanaugh lied to the Judiciary, said he welcomes investigations INCLUDING FBI in his opening statement but contradicted that by dodge the question of an FBI investigation. The Democrats' faults do not vindicate the GOP's. It doesn't change the fact that this stupid confirmation should not have happened in the first fucking place because why the fuck are we allowing an "un-indicted co-conspirator" under Special Counsel investigation get another Supreme Court Nominee after he already filled the seat that was denied to Obama for no reason?

The 2 parties in the US are NOT the same in terms of crime, guilt and dirty politics. That's for sure. If the Republicans were in the right, I would support them but the fact is that they're NOT. The right-wing in the US are assholes demanding that the other side be principled and true to their values while doing everything in their power to try and make sure their corruption, hypocrisy and crimes are overlooked. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Life]

1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

The Democrats made the suggestion quoting Kavanaugh saying "I welcomed any investigation, Senate, FBI, etc". See for yourself. They suggested it to Kavanaugh because obviously if they suggested it to Trump, who has the ultimate authority on the matter, it wouldn't happen.

Did the Democrats suggest the investigation in hopes of stalling the nomination? Of course they did, both sides are guilty of playing politics here in this debacle but at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that Kavanaugh lied to the Judiciary, said he welcomes investigations INCLUDING FBI in his opening statement but contradicted that by dodge the question of an FBI investigation. The Democrats' faults do not vindicate the GOP's. It doesn't change the fact that this stupid confirmation should not have happened in the first fucking place because why the fuck are we allowing an "un-indicted co-conspirator" under Special Counsel investigation get another Supreme Court Nominee after he already filled the seat that was denied to Obama for no reason?

The 2 parties in the US are NOT the same in terms of crime, guilt and dirty politics. That's for sure. If the Republicans were in the right, I would support them but the fact is that they're NOT. The right-wing in the US are assholes demanding that the other side be principled and true to their values while doing everything in their power to try and make sure their corruption, hypocrisy and crimes are overlooked. 

I do not know why I'm responding but here we go...

1. Let's face it. The whole thing was a political sham. Not a single person in there cared about Ford or Kavanaugh. The Democrats wanted Kavanaugh smeared at any cost (as he deserves to be but that's because the only thing he's raped is the 4th and 5th amendments) while the Republicans just want a conservative on the bench. And if you're willing to take a side and dig in, you're part of this.

Any person with some sort of ethics should feel disgusted by every single party's actions regarding that hearing.

2. The Democrats have bigger faults than just "laying land-mines for questions". Doesn't mean that the Republican's don't have serious faults in character but don't pretend that the Democrats are morally better at any point. They're just not worse than the GOP.

3. I bet you a nickel that you'd never support the Republicans on anything because you'll never think that they're in the right.
 

4. Neither side is being principled. The American left wing generally has no principles (they care about expediency over consistency) while the American right are typically hypocrites regarding their own principles. However, it is incredibly short-sighted to claim that the left wing is not filled the brim with corruption and crimes. Accusing the right of those charges is quite literally the pot calling the kettle black.

5. Obama might have been denied a SCOTUS. OK. But you know what nobody ever accused Merrick Garland of doing? Raping a women without a shred of evidence. It's hilarious when I listen to Lindsey Graham and have to agree with what he says. Hell, he's made actual liberals say "holy shit, Graham is actually saying something intelligent". Like the time that a woman screamed at him that she had been raped and his answer was "I'm sorry, go to the police" (which is the absolute right thing to say).

It feels like this is going to fall on deaf ears but the point is that both sides suck and whenever someone accuses the other of doing something, they're being completely self-unaware that they do the same exact thing. The way people have been treating Kanye should be evidence enough (I've seen people who claim to be for compassion and social justice call Kanye absolutely vile names like "house nigger").

Edited October 13, 2018 by Life

[Johann]

16 minutes ago, Life said:

The American left wing generally has no principles (they care about expediency over consistency)

It should be noted that on the left, there's a distinction between the more moderate liberal types (Clintons, Obama, etc) and the more democratic socialist types (Bernie, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, etc). The policy differences between these two factions is most heavily rooted in what drives them, with a crude summary being the moderate liberals want to tweak the system, while the democratic socialist types want a major overhaul. I don't think I've ever heard anyone call any Democrat expedient, either.

16 minutes ago, Life said:

5. Obama might have been denied a SCOTUS. OK. But you know what nobody ever accused Merrick Garland of doing? Raping a women without a shred of evidence. It's hilarious when I listen to Lindsey Graham and have to agree with what he says. Hell, he's made actual liberals say "holy shit, Graham is actually saying something intelligent". Like the time that a woman screamed at him that she had been raped and his answer was "I'm sorry, go to the police" (which is the absolute right thing to say).

There are a lot of big problems you're missing here, the primary being that most instances of rape & sexual assault have very little concrete evidence to work with. If you presume an "innocent until proven guilty" approach to sexual assault, then practically every perpetrator will get away with it. Going to the police rarely brings about any justice and in some cases just makes things worse for the victim. Now, in this case, while we can't necessarily prove that Ford is telling the truth, we know that Kavanaugh is lying about several matters, notably with some details about the evening and who was there.

Graham is a disingenuous piece of shit and you're falling for his act pretty hard if you think what he says is intelligent. Telling a victim to "go to the police" is extremely fucking dismissive of the problem. He knows it, and if you don't know it, then you'd better educate yourself.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

3 hours ago, Life said:

I do not know why I'm responding but here we go...

Perhaps just for the sake of arguing or maybe you haven't followed recent US politics to see how bad the right-wing politicians truly are in the US.

3 hours ago, Life said:

1. Let's face it. The whole thing was a political sham. Not a single person in there cared about Ford or Kavanaugh. The Democrats wanted Kavanaugh smeared at any cost (as he deserves to be but that's because the only thing he's raped is the 4th and 5th amendments) while the Republicans just want a conservative on the bench. And if you're willing to take a side and dig in, you're part of this.

I did say in that post you're quoting that both sides are playing politics. I would agree that most of the politicians in those hearings did not care about Ford or Kavanaugh, I won't say all of them. You say "Democrats wanted Kavanaugh smeared at any cost" and the right-wingers in the US are saying Ford's story is just a faked plot to try and achieve this but where is your conclusive evidence to assert that claim? The right-wing wants to call Kavanaugh "innocent until proven guilty" while at the same time accusing her of cooperating with Democrats on a "left-wing scheme to smear Kavanaugh". Why is Kavanaugh "innocent until proven guilty" of the allegations on him but Ford isn't "innocent until proven guilty" of these conspiracy accusations that have led Ford to move out of her home due to the death threats? Again, both parties were playing politics in this debacle but I do believe there is a side that's in the wrong on this matter and that is the Republicans. They robbed a previous nomination of due process because the president nominating him with a bullshit claim that the procedure should not be happening 14 months before an election while rushing Kavanaugh's confirmation since he was nominated in July working with only 4 months by comparison. The Republicans have the majority and they're abusing it. Does that absolve the Democrats of their faults? No but you cannot tell me with a straight face that the Republicans WERE NOT dirtier and more partisan on the matter than the Democrats and expect me to take that claim as anything other than a flawed and biased opinion.

3 hours ago, Life said:

2. The Democrats have bigger faults than just "laying land-mines for questions". Doesn't mean that the Republican's don't have serious faults in character but don't pretend that the Democrats are morally better at any point. They're just not worse than the GOP.

I don't have to "pretend that Democrats are morally better at any point" because the GOP has done an amazing job of showing that during the Trump presidency with their silence, extreme partisanship and hypocrisy. What did they do regarding the child separation policy? Nothing. What do they do when someone brings up legislation to protect the Mueller investigation? Nothing. What do they do about their president under investigation? They actively try to discredit and obstruct investigations into Trump to protect him because they're dead set on maintaining the majority as opposed to doing their fucking job. What has the GOP been doing FOR the common people during the Trump presidency? Gutting the Obamacare program that gave coverage to more people than what was previously there and while they attempt to this, they have no alternative they can pass or concern for those whose coverage they're taking away. They also spent SO MUCH TIME AND EFFORT trying to pass those stupid tax cuts they kept boasting about but no longer talk about in their campaigns because it was a lie like the left anticipated all the while looking to cut safety nets like Social Security to make up for their irresponsible spending that's blowing up the deficit as a way to fix that when Social Security DOES NOT affect the deficit as much as that coward Paul Ryan would like Fox News viewers to believe. They're enriching themselves by consistently being the party that's taking more donations from big corporations in order to enact laws that benefit the rich. The Republicans are also the party with more indictments and known criminal convictions over the past few decades on the executive branch. 

3 hours ago, Life said:

3. I bet you a nickel that you'd never support the Republicans on anything because you'll never think that they're in the right.

That's rather amusing coming from you when you criticized me for suggesting the death penalty on corrupt politicians. If it's not clear already, let me elaborate

The Democrats want to completely abolish the Death Penalty, that includes Bernie Sanders whom I wish had run for 2016 instead of Hillary but whatever.

The Republicans support the Death Penalty and the politicians will include caveats in their answer like "Yes, but only for horrific crimes with undeniable evidence".

I agree with the REPUBLICANS on this and would support extending it to corrupt politicians engaging in this "pay to play" bribery after that shit becomes illegal like it should be.

I'd also potentially support immigration laws similar to European countries which is something Republicans say they want but I wouldn't jump ship with the idea during this administration because there's absolutely no way they would frame it in such a way that isn't based on their racism and bigotry. Problem with that today is that this push is coming from racism and bigotry at a time when farmers and small business are literally saying they are suffering because of Trump's policies. If the Republicans brought this up at a time that made sense, free of racism and bigotry in a situation where say... the US is over populated and there are not enough jobs in unskilled labor, then I'd be down with merit based immigration policy to limit the influx to people with skills the country needs. Again, just keep the racism and bigotry out of it but that's not what GOP and their intent typically goes against what studies and experts on the subject say. Even right-wing folks in other countries seem to understand climate change while the GOP prefers to think it's fake and a coordinated effort by lots of scientists. It's kind of like the moon landing conspiracy theory...

Now where's that lucky nickel...

3 hours ago, Life said:

4. Neither side is being principled. The American left wing generally has no principles (they care about expediency over consistency) while the American right are typically hypocrites regarding their own principles. However, it is incredibly short-sighted to claim that the left wing is not filled the brim with corruption and crimes. Accusing the right of those charges is quite literally the pot calling the kettle black.

I dunno, there's Democrats pledging to no longer take money from corporate donors and people campaigning as Democrats without taking corporate money for their campaigns, just visiting their countries, talking to the common people taking contributions from common people. For the record, all money should be out of politics, I just think that corporations donating to politicians is a definite must that needs to go away first if you can't get all money out of politics immediately. Also, don't misunderstand me, a democrat pledging to no longer take money from corporate donors does not absolve them of their faults and they should be held accountable and face scrutiny when they deserve it like with any politician.

It's not short-sighted to say that in the context of the US because as documented in one of the links above, one party's executive branch has shown a clear history of a greater number of crimes and even today we're seeing indictments pop in for the GOP because of campaign contributions violations. Remember that there's a group of people in the white-house who wrote an op-ed to tell the country that there's a bunch of "adults" in there to stop the worse of Trump's impulses and that potential wars have been prevented by doing things as simply as getting a document Trump was about to sign out of his sight.

Accusing the right-wing politicians of their crimes and hypocrisy is just accusing the right-wing politicians of their crimes and hypocrisy just like how it's the same when you're accusing the left of their crimes and the hypocrisies. It comes down to what the accusations are, what statements are being made and what the facts are. I'm fairly certain most of the statements I've been making can be backed up, have been backed up with a source that isn't too questionable like Breitbart. Lately, there's little you can really accuse the Democrats of in terms of crime and on the same level as the GOP as they're practically powerless with the GOP controlling all 3 branches of the government. If there's anything Democrats are guilty of as of late is not backing up policies that Bernie is pushing forward that are popular with the people, including Trump supporters, because they're trying too hard to be "neutral" or "moderate". There's arguments to be made that a lot of the incumbent Democrats are LITE Republicans like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and as I've said in a previous post, (which you attacked in the past btw), think they should be removed from power. But hell, you don't have to take my word for it, just look into what ex-Republicans like David Jolly and Steve Schmidt are constantly saying.

3 hours ago, Life said:

5. Obama might have been denied a SCOTUS. OK. But you know what nobody ever accused Merrick Garland of doing? Raping a women without a shred of evidence. It's hilarious when I listen to Lindsey Graham and have to agree with what he says. Hell, he's made actual liberals say "holy shit, Graham is actually saying something intelligent". Like the time that a woman screamed at him that she had been raped and his answer was "I'm sorry, go to the police" (which is the absolute right thing to say).

Nobody accused Merrick Garland of anything because he never got the bloodied opportunity in the first place. Let's pretend for a moment there was a confirmation hearing going on for him and he were accused, my stance regarding such allegations would be the same as the Kavanaugh matter in regards to the allegations on him alone: Either allow an FBI investigation to look into the allegations for the purpose of clearing his name if they're false or enlightening the senate and the country on the situation or simply ditch the nomination and put someone else forward. Obama had 14 months for this and if it happened, he had the time to put someone else forward.

Republicans just pushed it, covered up claimed to be for an FBI investigation only after one of their own demanded it be done for him to confirm Kavanaugh but even after that it's clear the White House butchered that and denied the FBI from interviewing people saying they want to testify and corroborate Ford's claims as well clear up Kavanaugh's characterization made in the hearings which are practically perjury at this point and should be enough to disqualify him but guess what, the man IS in the Supreme Court despite his lying to congress! I agree with you that there wasn't a shred of conclusive evidence for the allegations made but the GOP decided to just cover that and ignore the fact that FALSE rape accusations are reported to be at a 2% rate.

If Merrick Garland committed perjury during the hearings and Obama and Democrats rushed his confirmation, I would condemn for it too.

3 hours ago, Life said:

It feels like this is going to fall on deaf ears.

If It's going to fall on deaf ears, it's because you may be assuming that I have to agree with you on everything you say in order to reach an understanding. You make these blank statements accusing one side without providing proof while I'm doing so to back up my claims that the GOP IS more corrupt and a worse party than the Democrats, in recent times.

3 hours ago, Life said:

but the point is that both sides suck

I've literally said the same thing before and I'm fairly certain several of the folks active in this thread have too.

3 hours ago, Life said:

and whenever someone accuses the other of doing something, they're being completely self-unaware that they do the same exact thing.

I'm accusing the Republican party being more guilty of crimes as far as we know. The data is there to show that.

I'm accusing the Republican party of enabling the Trump administration on that atrocious separation policy. Pretty sure the Democrats aren't the party in power nor the party that was silent and did nothing about it. 

I'm accusing the Republican party of being the more corrupt because they've taken more donations from corporations and have partaken in more legislation that benefits their donors than the Democrats. Do you want to run a search to debunk that or do you want me to give you that evidence so that you can ignore it and continue to throw blank statements?

3 hours ago, Life said:

 The way people have been treating Kanye should be evidence enough (I've seen people who claim to be for compassion and social justice call Kanye absolutely vile names like "house nigger").

I agree that people have been going too far in their treatment of Kanye. I've thought Kanye's an idiot for ages and still think he is but some of the attacks on him are going too far.

Unfortunately that's not the end-all evidence to debunk the several reasons why I say the GOP is WORSE than the Democrats in the context of today. I've literally acknowledge several times that the Democrats are guilty and do play partisan politics too but the point is THE GOP HAS BEEN WORSE, SPECIALLY DURING THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Lord Raven]

5 hours ago, Life said:

snip

You, like many others in this thread, care way too much about factionalism, pointing fingers, and putting blame on an entire movement for the actions of its fringe to have a discussion with.

Please think about this more instead of pointing fingers at some nebulous "american left-wing" that you only care to point fingers at instead of engage with. People in this thread should not be out to get one another (which many people seem to be doing, and it's not limited to the "right wing" of this forum at all, and I was very very very guilty of it for the last three years too), that's really shitty politics, and that's the vibe I've been getting the entire last like 5 pages.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Lord Raven

[Captain Karnage]

4 hours ago, Johann said:

Graham is a disingenuous piece of shit and you're falling for his act pretty hard if you think what he says is intelligent. Telling a victim to "go to the police" is extremely fucking dismissive of the problem. He knows it, and if you don't know it, then you'd better educate yourself.

Seriously what can he do, that's something that should be brought to the police. What's he going to do, make everyone wear locked 15th century chastity belts while in public

This has been a problem since the dawn of civilization.

7 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

BOLD: Ah, good old right-wing defense of this atrocious policy. If this was as problematic as Fox News would like you to believe, they would be able to provide statistics showing evidence that this is a substantial problem. If you want to prevent this, you make DNA testing of the parent and child part of the due process in these situations, you don't discriminately decide to target a specific ethnic group and take away their kids when they're seeking asylum. There's illegal immigration cases from European countries but you never hear about those from Fox News now do you?

I never even brought up ethnic groups it's targeting a national group, people who are crossing the boarder without going through the proper process, if this was a problem with Canadians I'd be saying the same thing

seriously would you rather we not check, I'm actually in favor of hiring pediatric psychologists to check on their mental well being to make sure they're not being abused as well  

I don't watch Fox news, but I have seen a lot in regards to the immigration crisis, I recall reading about German New Year 2016, A "Truck Attack" on a Christmas village, and Sadiq Khan's comments saying terrorism is just part of living in the city.

[Tryhard]

27 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

I don't watch Fox news, but I have seen a lot in regards to the immigration crisis, I recall reading about German New Year 2016, A "Truck Attack" on a Christmas village, and Sadiq Khan's comments saying terrorism is just part of living in the city.

It's funny to me when the US criticises European countries for this immigration crisis, yet European countries (as an example, the UK) have a lower crime rate than the US and 4x lower murder rate.

That is, besides the fact that many of the humanitarian refugee crisis was perpetrated and continues to be perpetrated because the US can't stop bombing and destabilising the Middle East. And then Americans turn around and go "lol EU accepting rapefugees lmao". It's just... yeah.

 

As for Sadiq Khan, that would be pretty bad, if that's what he actually said. Here's the full quote.

“Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job. We must never accept terrorists being successful, we must never accept that terrorists can destroy our life or destroy the way we lead our lives.”

This seems like a reasonable comment to me, at least along the lines of what Americans say when a terrorist attack or mass shooting occurs. Donald Trump Jr. and everyone else who latched on to this quote should actually listen to what he said.

[Captain Karnage]

12 minutes ago, Edgelord said:

It's funny to me when the US criticises European countries for this immigration crisis, yet European countries (as an example, the UK) have a lower crime rate than the US and 4x lower murder rate.

well you guys do live on an island and a chunk of Ireland, it's not surprising that there's not as much crime. Not to mention there are a lot of social issues, which I believe are responsible for higher crime rates, as well as well fare being much harder to distribute.

and we also have Florida, just google Florida man or woman. lol

 

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

Seriously what can he do, that's something that should be brought to the police. What's he going to do, make everyone wear locked 15th century chastity belts while in public

This has been a problem since the dawn of civilization.

Lindsey Graham is in the Senate. He's in a position of power to introduce discussion and legislation as to what could be done to help women and encourage them to come forward immediately as it happens but instead, the #MeToo movement has to happen as a repeat of the civil rights history when women weren't allowed to vote. He and all corrupt politicians are more focused on passing MORE tax cuts and pushing for cuts to health care and Social Security. It also doesn't helps that some of the police ARE such perpetrators...

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

I never even brought up ethnic groups it's targeting a national group, people who are crossing the boarder without going through the proper process, if this was a problem with Canadians I'd be saying the same thing

I didn't mean to say YOU specifically were advocating for this while targeting a specific ethnic group, I was referencing how Fox News and other right-wing folks who bring up the human trafficker detail in defense of that policy as they're always using to foster hatred of Mexicans.

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

seriously would you rather we not check, I'm actually in favor of hiring pediatric psychologists to check on their mental well being to make sure they're not being abused as well  

I'm not opposed to this. In that same quote, I even say:

Quote

If you want to prevent this, you make DNA testing of the parent and child part of the due process in these situations, you don't discriminately decide to target a specific ethnic group and take away their kids when they're seeking asylum.

Thing is the system involved with handling these immigration cases is underfunded so it is unlikely that politicians would go with your idea but main problem with the separation policy are its big difference with how the situation is normally handled. Normally, those seeking asylum would have an initial hearing to present for why they've come illegally and the courts would decide what to do with them. As said before, the system is so under funded that these decisions are made quickly and in cases where a family's told to come back for their hearing, a majority of them do return to court. Couple with the fact that illegal immigration this way has actually seen a decline, the separation policy was unnecessary. The immigration problem in the US is just exaggerated and there are real problems that should take greater priority and for some of those problems, the solution is pretty much to get rid of some of these politicians.

Now obviously the big difference brought about by the separation policy is that this due process would be thrown out the window, parents were being tricked into getting their kids taken away from them and the parents would be deported. This is the situation that caused the most uproar and it was just so bad that courts had to order the Trump administration to reunite these kids with their parents. A deadline was set, it's been over 60 days since that deadline and the administration faces no consequence or accountability for such a blunder. This is something Trump Administration and the US must never live down. Trump may have ordered it to stop, but the damage was and still is, being done.

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

I don't watch Fox news, but I have seen a lot in regards to the immigration crisis, I recall reading about German New Year 2016, A "Truck Attack" on a Christmas village, and Sadiq Khan's comments saying terrorism is just part of living in the city.

Noted. Giving your linking of Breitbart and other sketchy sources, I assumed you probably watched Fox News as well.

25 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

and we also have Florida, just google Florida man or woman. lol

I fucking lost it when I found out this was a thing

And yeah as Edgelord was saying, we in the US aren't really in a position criticize Europe's politics or handling of immigration when you have certain media pushing a racist agenda while misinforming you about who the most common terrorists in the US actually are.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Life]

6 hours ago, Johann said:

 If you presume an "innocent until proven guilty" approach to sexual assault, then practically every perpetrator will get away with it. Going to the police rarely brings about any justice and in some cases just makes things worse for the victim. […]

Graham is a disingenuous piece of shit and you're falling for his act pretty hard if you think what he says is intelligent. Telling a victim to "go to the police" is extremely fucking dismissive of the problem. He knows it, and if you don't know it, then you'd better educate yourself.

You need to provide evidence of the accused committing a crime before locking them up in a cage?

For the record, I'm almost directly quoting Jimmy Dore here.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Life

[Dr. Tarrasque]

@Captain KarnageOn the subject of Robert E. Lee

On the subject of Media and Fake News, apparently there's a Norwegian website that makes you take a quiz before commenting on the story. That seems a like good idea.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Captain Karnage]

finally found the whole segment

@Dr. Tarrasque

 

[Johann]

7 hours ago, Captain Karnage said:

Seriously what can he do, that's something that should be brought to the police. What's he going to do, make everyone wear locked 15th century chastity belts while in public

This has been a problem since the dawn of civilization.

Well for starters, he could not aggressively defend and vote for Kavanaugh. One of the major problems victims face when trying to report their assault is that people don't believe them (or in some cases, they don't care).

Fuck off with that whataboutism, the man is in a significant position of power and has the means to create meaningful legislation.

6 hours ago, Life said:

You need to provide evidence of the accused committing a crime before locking them up in a cage?

There's a difference between locking someone in a cage and denying them a seat on the fucking Supreme Court. On a wider scale, there are ways police can provide more meaningful support for victims, even if the accused isn't convicted of anything.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

8 hours ago, Captain Karnage said:

finally found the whole segment

Yeah I saw it. I found the entire rally and listened to the entire segment about Lee and Grant and I still didn't see what you were upset about it.

2 hours ago, Johann said:

There's a difference between locking someone in a cage and denying them a seat on the fucking Supreme Court. On a wider scale, there are ways police can provide more meaningful support for victims, even if the accused isn't convicted of anything.

There's also situations where the perpetrator IS part of the police and they may try to cover it up to protect their guy while turning the people against you, similar to how the GOP and Trump supporters have done with Ford. In the Botham Jean case, the police tried to criminalize the victim via possession of Marijuana when folks were demanding justice for him and instead they tried to protect the cop that killed him. Going to the Police is not an option that will provide a solution to everyone that goes to them when the Police themselves can be an issue depending on who you are.

Oh and btw, police will often ignore these anyway.

If you want to try and understand why is it that people don't report, just look up #whyididntreport. I think that became a thing while the entire country was watching the hearings because Conservatives would always ask "Why didn't they report it?" as a defense to the "FORD'S ALLEGATIONS ARE LEFT WING SMEAR CAMPAIGN" defense. 

Of course, some people do jump in belief of Ford too quickly. When I say Kavanaugh shouldn't have been confirmed, Ford's testimony isn't even on the table as "conclusive evidence" because by itself it most certainly is not and I'm waiting to see the therapist notes from 2012. Kavanaugh committed perjury many times and that alone should've been enough to deny him the seat.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Captain Karnage]

23 hours ago, Captain Karnage said:

What pisses me off is how the media will take a part of something and take it way out of context to make him look like a monster

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1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Yeah I saw it. I found the entire rally and listened to the entire segment about Lee and Grant and I still didn't see what you were upset about it.

are you even reading, I'm just assuming you don't read

4 hours ago, Johann said:

Well for starters, he could not aggressively defend and vote for Kavanaugh. One of the major problems victims face when trying to report their assault is that people don't believe them (or in some cases, they don't care).

Fuck off with that whataboutism, the man is in a significant position of power and has the means to create meaningful legislation.

I never brought up Kavanaugh until this post, what can you do about sexual assault, it's already illegal

the reason people have become much more skeptical because of recent false allegations, people are more hesitant because they don't want to convict an innocent person. The problem is that doubt is placed into people's minds whenever a false allegation is reported.

[Life]

2 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

There's also situations where the perpetrator IS part of the police and they may try to cover it up to protect their guy while turning the people against you, similar to how the GOP and Trump supporters have done with Ford. In the Botham Jean case, the police tried to criminalize the victim via possession of Marijuana when folks were demanding justice for him and instead they tried to protect the cop that killed him. Going to the Police is not an option that will provide a solution to everyone that goes to them when the Police themselves can be an issue depending on who you are.

Oh and btw, police will often ignore these anyway.

If you want to try and understand why is it that people don't report, just look up #whyididntreport. I think that became a thing while the entire country was watching the hearings because Conservatives would always ask "Why didn't they report it?" as a defense to the "FORD'S ALLEGATIONS ARE LEFT WING SMEAR CAMPAIGN" defense. 

Of course, some people do jump in belief of Ford too quickly. When I say Kavanaugh shouldn't have been confirmed, Ford's testimony isn't even on the table as "conclusive evidence" because by itself it most certainly is not and I'm waiting to see the therapist notes from 2012. Kavanaugh committed perjury many times and that alone should've been enough to deny him the seat.

You do realize that Conservatives tried to give her the benefit of the doubt? What do you want them to do? Ruin the man's life based on an unfounded allegation? Because that is what this was. We aren't talking about all cases or the majority of them. We are talking about this specific case with these specific facts. Or lack thereof. And this is coming from someone who didn't want Kavanaugh as a justice (me).

If Kavanaugh doesn't get the job, his professional life is now ruined without any proof being brought forward. This makes me want to teach my sisters to accuse men of sexual harassment and assault if they want anything because of the "believe all women even in the absence of evidence" narrative.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Life

[Dr. Tarrasque]

56 minutes ago, Life said:

You do realize that Conservatives tried to give her the benefit of the doubt?

They acted like they did. As shown before, the director of the FBI admitted the investigation's scope was severely limited and they refused to speak with people that wanted to come forward and corroborate the testimony from the 2.

56 minutes ago, Life said:

What do you want them to do?

1. To have that FBI investigation and allow the FBI agents to speak with those that wanted to provide evidence and corroboration of Ford and Kavanaugh's testimony.

The bolded happened, the underlined did not. Based on what we know of the FBI investigation, that shit was more of a cover-up. There were no copies of the FBI report made available to the public and Senators had to go through hundreds of pages of a report in the span of 1 hour. 

2. The GOP to stop hiding the documentation and information on Kavanaugh. The hearings happened with 90% of those documents being hidden from the democrats and the undecided.

It's a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court and the Public has every right to demand full transparency of information about this candidate. The GOP did everything in their power to hide information from the public.

56 minutes ago, Life said:

Ruin the man's life based on an unfounded allegation? 

Kavanaugh made himself look worse via his testimony. Several people who knew him in college wanted to come forward and inform the Public that Kavanaugh was lying in his testimony, some of them even admitting they're Republican. If Kavanaugh is innocent, he had absolutely no reason to dodge the questions on an FBI investigation, he had reason to tell the white house to let the investigation be as thorough as possible if he truly wanted to clear his name like he said. I've said this already: the way the GOP, Trump and Kavanaugh handled this debacle did more damage to Kavanaugh's reputation than the allegations themselves because those haven't been proven or disproven and Kavanaugh tried to pass himself off as a "good choir boy".

@Shoblongoo weighed in on this and he made excellent points on it:

 

On 10/2/2018 at 9:25 AM, Shoblongoo said:

Bingo.

If he perjured himself before Congress he should not only be rejected from sitting on the Supreme Court, he should lose his federal judgeship and be banned from the practice of law. In some professions lying under-oath may not be a huge deal.  In the profession of law, that's disqualifying. 

Like if I'm ever up for a judgeship. And I get called to this line of questioning. I'm answering honestly:

"I frequently attended house parties in college and law school. I drank heavily. I drank when I was under the age of 21.  I witnessed others drinking heavily and drinking under the age of 21. I was also a regular, recreational user of cannabis. I never lost consciousness or memory as a result of intoxication. I never became violent or aggressive towards women. I never put myself or anyone else in any unsafe situations. I do not believe this line of questioning is pertinent to my good character and legal qualifications, but for candor's sake I  will answer to the best of my recollection any further questions you have on this matter." 

I'm not going to lie and say I like beer. I still like beer. But I can categorically say I was never a big partier when I was younger. I was too busy playing Fire Emblem and studying to get into a good law school; I just never got into that kind of scene.

  ...partially because I'd know as a practitioner of law,  I have a professional and ethical duty to tell the truth.

...partially because I've got nothing to be ashamed of and nothing I'm trying to hide.

...partially because I know that if I did lie to try and slide through the confirmation process and deny that I partied hard, there's a million people who can come out of the woodwork to credibly say "Yes you did you fucking liar. We use to chug whiskey and rip bong hits together all the time."    

...partially because I know that if I lose credibility by lying about something as minor as my college drinking habits, then I have no credibility left to defend myself if someone falsely accuses me of doing something horrific like--say--holding down a 15 year old girl and attempting to rape her.  
_______

Thats the problem with Kavanaugh. Hes been caught lying now enough times about that time in his life and trying to portray himself in a false light that the longer this drags on, the less credibility his denials have.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Life said:

Because that is what this was. We aren't talking about all cases or the majority of them. We are talking about this specific case with these specific facts. Or lack thereof. And this is coming from someone who didn't want Kavanaugh as a justice (me).

You're defending conservatives and suggesting due process and benefit of the doubt was given when evidence points to the contrary.

You're arguing with non-conservatives using right-wing talking points while ignoring the above and assuming that non-conservatives here are arguing that Ford's allegations should ruin Kavanaugh's life when in the same post you quoted I specifically said:

Quote

When I say Kavanaugh shouldn't have been confirmed, Ford's testimony isn't even on the table as "conclusive evidence" because by itself it most certainly is not and I'm waiting to see the therapist notes from 2012. Kavanaugh committed perjury many times and that alone should've been enough to deny him the seat.

This seems to be a problem you have, you argue with someone on the other side using the talking points from your side but fail to speak to and listen to the individual and just assume that they accept everything wrong with their side and do not acknowledge it.

Leahy was spot on in the hearings and pointed out evidence of Kavanaugh lying to congress BEFORE Ford's allegations came out. Lying to congress alone should've disqualified Kavanaugh and made the undecided Senators rule no on him. But no, the GOP just had to keep pushing to have Kavanaugh go through when they have an incredible selection of other folks to put forth that didn't have as many secrets and information hidden like Kavanaugh does. The allegations came after this, the GOP's actions opened the door to it.

56 minutes ago, Life said:

If Kavanaugh doesn't get the job, his professional life is now ruined without any proof being brought forward. 

He's in the Supreme Court now but that hasn't absolved him of the allegations and again, it's because of the way that the GOP, Trump and Kavanaugh handled it and it's also led to more division in the country. There's said to be over 40 people that wanted to come forward to bring testimony and evidence to the FBI. Details and information was rejected, end of story.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

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are you even reading, I'm just assuming you don't read

If I didn't read, my posts and edits wouldn't take as long to write.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Lord Raven]

It's ridiculous that people think the sexual assault allegations would be anywhere close to enough to sink Kavanaugh. The issue with Kavanaugh is that he was performing shitty "me vs the libcucks and the world and the haters" politics that should absolutely not be on the bench.

It doesn't matter whether or not he committed the sexual assault but he kept fraternal biases alive as soon as 2-3 years ago. It's nearly impossible to prove from the early 80s, especially in a good ol boys club like Georgetown Prep.

The issue is that Kavanaugh engages in shitty politics well suited for this thread, and that is the kind of temperament that should've lose him this job, not the sexual assault allegations. He failed miserably in the public job interview and he was literally only pushed through due to partisanism.

 

This is not a very hard concept to grasp, but the amount of hate Ford is getting for opening up about what was probably the worst fucking day of her life is horribly absurd. Our cheeto cuck of a president insisted on doing it instead of, you know, being an actual fucking leader. Seriously, stop harping on people for being conservative or liberal and harp on our president's conduct, incompetence, and the shitty supreme court nomination he literally just made. He fucking told shitty history just to justify his shitty supreme court pick.

 

And no, this is not an opinion. Kavanaugh is objectively a horrible pick for the supreme court and there's nothing you can do to fix that. At least Neil Gorsuch is a decent and calm man that I happen to have disagreements with.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Lord Raven

[Tryhard]

What Raven said. The unfortunate part of this is that the Democrats really pretty much stopped pushing on the objective reasons why Kavanaugh should be nowhere near the supreme court regardless.

I have my doubts whether it would matter regardless, but it was just a mess overall.

And yeah, like FrostyFireMage said a few pages back, some of Kavanaugh's rulings:

 

"Even if a hazard at work has killed multiple people, your employer can't be fined if you get killed. (SeaWorld v. Perez)

American corporations can't be held accountable for their human rights abuses overseas. (Doe v. Exxon Mobil)

Police can install a GPS on your vehicle without a warrant. (United States v. Jones)

The NSA can collect any data about you they want, even if that data collection exceeds what was authorized by Congress. (Klayman v. Obama)

American citizens can be flown to other counties to be tortured. (Kiyemba v. Obama)"

 

Populist Conservatives are cheering instead of realising this guy will side with corporate and authoritarianism 100% of the time over the people, and that's nothing to celebrate when you step outside tribalism. "Owning the libs" is not a valid political philosophy. If you are a constitutionalist or a small government Conservative, you should hate this guy because he doesn't care a whit for the Fourth Ammendment. If you hate perjurers, you should hate this guy. If you hate partisanship, you should hate this guy. If you hate the swamp, fuck sake, he's a Bush appointee.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Edgelord

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1 hour ago, Edgelord said:

If you hate the swamp, fuck sake, he's a Bush appointee.

Bush himself even pushed in favor of Kavanaugh. Trump supporters talk about "draining the swamp" and yet they blindly advocate for this Swamp monster to take that seat, all because it is the will of "dear leader". But nah, it's just fake news that Bush would advocate for one of his appointees to become a Supreme Court Justice right?

Seriously, how do conservatives and Trump supporters explain this bullshit?

Quote

What Raven said. The unfortunate part of this is that the Democrats really pretty much stopped pushing on the objective reasons why Kavanaugh should be nowhere near the supreme court regardless.

This is true but at the same time, when the Democrats first touch on these points, it wasn't doing anything to sway the undecided senators and at the end of the day, the FBI investigation work that WAS done came at the hands of Jeff Flake saying he'll only confirm Kavanaugh after an investigation into the allegation happened. The perjury was ignored and it didn't phase those undecided Senators who claim to be "moderates". That speaks volumes.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Seriously, how do conservatives and Trump supporters explain this bullshit?

"the soyboy libcucks are mad lel" also "trump is going to get rid of poc"

That's all I have. I don't get it. These people are actively cheering against their own interests because it makes people mad. Trump's never been what he says he is. He's made the swamp many times swampier, and he's done jack shit to help out the disenfranchised middle and working classes.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Slumber

[Johann]

5 hours ago, Captain Karnage said:

I never brought up Kavanaugh until this post, what can you do about sexual assault, it's already illegal

the reason people have become much more skeptical because of recent false allegations, people are more hesitant because they don't want to convict an innocent person. The problem is that doubt is placed into people's minds whenever a false allegation is reported.

There's a lot that can be done to prevent and deal with sexual assault, mostly by changing the way we think about it and sex, gender dynamics, etc. The way we, as a society, treat women (like, ya know, actually listening to them instead of worrying about the accused's reputation) is just one major aspect of this, as are the kind of role models we have for men and how we depict men in relationships/friendships. This kind of "what can you do" complacency is a worthless sentiment, and suggests you don't actually give a shit about the conversation. At least you're not in a position of power or on a nationwide platform.

Dunno what "recent false allegations" you're thinking of given the sheer volume of stories that have come out in light of the #MeToo movement, etc. Of reported cases (which are estimated at about a third of all incidents), the number that are confirmed to be "baseless" (presumed truthful but not enough to convict) and "false" (factually proven to not have occurred) float around the 5% range (±2%, studies vary by year and location). With these numbers, we can reasonably say that for every false report, there are upwards of 100 actual instances of sexual assault. If the odds are 100 to 1 that the accused is innocent, you should really be giving the victims the benefit of the doubt by default, or else it's fair to say you're a probably sexist asshole.

[Slumber]

I don't think this Elizabeth Warren thing is the dumbest thing to happen during this administration, but it's up there.