General US Politics

[Skynstein]

4 hours ago, Black_Knight said:

Surely you be jesting. You can believe it or not, but certain politicians put principles like the 'common good' first over ideology if it helps the country. Sadly that's never the case with the right.

No, I'm not. There are no angels in politics.

[Res]

8 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

@Res I read the NYT article on it. smh

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/04/us/politics/britain-attack-trump-twitter-storm.html for reference

And meanwhile, the administration continues to make arms deals with the Saudis.

Thank you for the link, I should have provided one. I never expect anything from Trump but I was still somewhat surprised that he buried any sympathy in no fewer than 4 tweets pushing his own agenda.

Theresa May's speech was more flowery but mentions internet restrictions (also worth noting that yet again, the first responders are praised - yet they continue to be underfunded and have their salaries slashed). 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The "There's no reason to be alarmed" was referring to the increased police presence, not further terrorist activity. File Trump's tweet under "concrete evidence he's actually illiterate"

And yeah, pointing at London and saying this is why we need the muslim ban is really grimy too. Travel bans won't protect you from domestic terrorism.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Gustavos

[Shoblongoo]

6 hours ago, Gustavos said:

 File Trump's tweet under "concrete evidence he's actually illiterate"

...the thing you have to remember about Donald Trump is that the man just absolutely doesn't care whether anything he says is true or untrue; only if he can get people to believe its true. He's a morally defunct con-man whose gotten away with lying and cheating and treating people like garbage his entire life, and made billions of dollars doing it.  

Its not illiteracy. Its purposeful. He knows exactly what hes doing.

He's counting on his supporters being daft enough to lap it right up and go: "THAT'S RIGHT! YOU TELL 'EM! These liberal European bed-wetters just don't get it; Thank God for Donald Trump!" (And they will. There's a cult-of-personality around this guy that will swallow absolutely anything he feeds them.) 

Also--Trump's desperately trying to make the week's big headline anything other then Comey's testimony to Congress on Thursday. So expect more twitter shit-posts and wild antics, ahead of the main event. 

Edited June 5, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[ping]

On 4.6.2017 at 4:43 PM, Cerberus87 said:

This is true for every politician ever, not just Trump. Including the immaculate Barack Obama.

I see your point, but... to that extent? Really? I do not see Obama as a flawless politician or human being, not at all, but does he really display the same level of narcissism that Trump does? Did he really have to repeat in every second sentence how he, personally, will set things right and how he is so much better at everything than everyone else? The US are hardly the only country with a new head of state since the Paris Agreement has been signed, but Trump is the only one who had to make a big show out of saying how bad a deal his predecessor had made. You can't seriously mean that his behaviour is in any way standard for an US president or even comparable to former presidents.

[Res]

Agreed, ping. Don't think anyone currently present on this thread wouldn't acknowledge Obama's flaws - in fact several of us have been quite vocal about them. But Trump is on a whole other level.

He doubled down on his critique of Sadiq Khan today despite he being the one to misquote him.

[CazTGG]

So...this just dropped today:  https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-details-russian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/

Russian military intelligence executed a cyberattack on at least one U.S. voting software supplier and sent spear-phishing emails to more than 100 local election officials just days before last November’s presidential election, according to a highly classified intelligence report obtained by The Intercept.

The top-secret National Security Agency document, which was provided anonymously to The Intercept and independently authenticated, analyzes intelligence very recently acquired by the agency about a months-long Russian intelligence cyber effort against elements of the U.S. election and voting infrastructure. The report, dated May 5, 2017, is the most detailed U.S. government account of Russian interference in the election that has yet come to light...

The report indicates that Russian hacking may have penetrated further into U.S. voting systems than was previously understood. It states unequivocally in its summary statement that it was Russian military intelligence, specifically the Russian General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate, or GRU, that conducted the cyber attacks described in the document:

Russian General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate actors … executed cyber espionage operations against a named U.S. company in August 2016, evidently to obtain information on elections-related software and hardware solutions. … The actors likely used data obtained from that operation to … launch a voter registration-themed spear-phishing campaign targeting U.S. local government organizations.

 

[Lord Raven]

22 hours ago, Cerberus87 said:

No, I'm not. There are no angels in politics.

Just because there are no angels doesn't mean that the Democratic Party is just as bad as the Republican Party purely in terms of policy. Our politicians are shit, but at least the Democrats have some semblance of an idea of how to govern and how to give relatively effective (but not totally ineffective) policy.

You've got to be kidding with this false equivalency. They're both bad, but one is significantly worse.

 

Also, where are the conservatives at? I'm really curious to see what you guys actually think of the current administration without dragging Clinton into this.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Lord Raven

[Tryhard]

1 hour ago, Lord Raven said:

Also, where are the conservatives at? I'm really curious to see what you guys actually think of the current administration without dragging Clinton into this.

It'll take a while for the mainstream conservatives to show themselves, or a while for the ones still talking politics to disown Trump. I seem to recall many Republicans denying supporting or voting for Bush when it got really bad.

Though, I will say that I'm thankful that the Syria air strike didn't turn into anything more. Looks like it was shown to be utterly pointless, though.

1 hour ago, CazTGG said:

So...this just dropped today:  https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-details-russian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/

Interesting stuff. Seems like the leaker was arrested by the FBI.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/871846276337463296

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/feds-arrest-nsa-contractor-leak-top-secret-russia-document-n768561

Edited June 6, 2017 by Tryhard

[Lord Raven]

2 hours ago, Tryhard said:

It'll take a while for the mainstream conservatives to show themselves, or a while for the ones still talking politics to disown Trump. I seem to recall many Republicans denying supporting or voting for Bush when it got really bad.

I meant on this forum lol

[Tryhard]

I was speaking generally, but it probably applies just as much here if they supported Trump as they were only really concerned about him winning over Clinton. I'd not be surprised if a lot of them were only interested in the election and have since then turned themselves off to politics. The conservatives that don't like Trump are still shaking their heads just as much but like 85% or so of Republicans still support him IIRC.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Tryhard

[Shoblongoo]

Comey testifying to Congress tomorrow; transcript of Comey's prepared opening statements have been made available for public viewing, ahead of the hearing. Link below for anyone interested:

https://www.scribd.com/document/3506...817#from_embed
 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I watched a part of Comey's interrogation.
He gave very controversial information.

It's just the question for me how it exactly will affect Trump (if it can't be proven).

 

[Shoblongoo]

57 minutes ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

I watched a part of Comey's interrogation.
He gave very controversial information.

It's just the question for me how it exactly will affect Trump (if it can't be proven).

 

Its hard to say.

On the one hand, Trump has already gotten away with sooooooooooo much that he shouldn’t have gotten away with. And what new information continues to drip out concerning what a truly dishonest and reprehensible human being he truly is, its blunted by the fact that there’s already so much out there and its just another drop in the bucket at this point.

Like—its already out there and known that the guy admitted to sexual assault on audio, ran a fake university scam to cheat dupes out of tuition money, stole from a children’s hospital, bankrupted a casino, harassed topless underaged girls at his teenager beauty pageants, has been a named party in over 3,000 lawsuits alleging everything from business fraud to sexual harassment to embezzlement of charity funds, and maintains a general reputation of being an egomaniac and pathological liar who humiliates people for fun.

…and that was before he even became president…

On the other hand, there has to come a tipping point where people say enough is enough. And decide that they just aren’t going to put up with his nonsense anymore.

But every time something new  comes out you have to get to thinking: if the last 10 things he did didn’t bring him down, why is this going to do it?

I hope they get him though. I really do.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Moblin Major General]

10 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Its hard to say.

On the one hand, Trump has already gotten away with sooooooooooo much that he shouldn’t have gotten away with. And what new information continues to drip out concerning what a truly dishonest and reprehensible human being he truly is, its blunted by the fact that there’s already so much out there and its just another drop in the bucket at this point.

Like—its already out there and known that the guy admitted to sexual assault on audio, ran a fake university scam to cheat dupes out of tuition money, stole from a children’s hospital, bankrupted a casino, harassed topless underaged girls at his teenager beauty pageants, has been a named party in over 3,000 lawsuits alleging everything from business fraud to sexual harassment to embezzlement of charity funds, and maintains a general reputation of being an egomaniac and pathological liar who humiliates people for fun.

…and that was before he even became president…

On the other hand, there has to come a tipping point where people say enough is enough. And decide that they just aren’t going to put up with his nonsense anymore.

But every time something new  comes out you have to get to thinking: if the last 10 things he did didn’t bring him down, why is this going to do it?

I hope they get him though. I really do.

Hitler commited Treason. And guess what? They still elected him. If Hitler could commit the ultimate crime and still end up in power, nothing will truly bar anyone from being in a position of authority. Also, even though high crimes and misdemeanors is in the Constitution to remove the President should he do something illegal, it doesn't say that you can't run for President if you have been accused or even convicted of crimes in your past. Most likely, anyone who has that wouldn't win, but since when has anything about the 2016 election been the likely result of anything? Sure, enough is enough, but everything about the system in place right now is incompetent, meaning he may not face any consequences other than loosing the election in 2020 (and even then, he might not lose it).

[Augestein]

But Hitler had a lot of other things that helped him. For instance, he spoke that he wanted to overthrow the government to help the people. His retorts held weight because he convinced people that it was bad that WW1 ended the way it did, and to a certain extent, he did have a point. The way WW1 ended left Germany in a pretty bad state comparatively to how they were beforehand, so it was easier to rally people up in this case. 

The US isn't even remotely close to the state that post WW1-Germany was in. So it's really not comparable. I'm no Hitler sympathizer by any stretch of the imagination, but there's quite a large number of differences. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Augestein

[Shoblongoo]

31 minutes ago, Augestein said:

But Hitler had a lot of other things that helped him. For instance, he spoke that he wanted to overthrow the government to help the people. His retorts held weight because he convinced people that it was bad that WW1 ended the way it did, and to a certain extent, he did have a point. The way WW1 ended left Germany in a pretty bad state comparatively to how they were beforehand, so it was easier to rally people up in this case. 

The US isn't even remotely close to the state that post WW1-Germany was in. So it's really not comparable. I'm no Hitler sympathizer by any stretch of the imagination, but there's quite a large number of differences. 

Quite a few similarities too though--Trump is far-and-away the most Hitleresque politician I've seen in my lifetime.

Before Hitler was a genocidal dictator, he was a politician. And Hitler the Politician comes on the scene at a time when the German people are depressed by a sense that their best days are behind them, that their once-great nation is in decline, and that their entire government is run by globalist stooges who only care about enriching themselves and their cronies and are entirely unresponsive to the big national problems facing post-WWI Germany.

Hitler comes along, being the charismatic devil that he is, and he has a message. A powerful message. A message that his countrymen are in just the right state-of-mind to receive. That message is:

“Germany is the greatest country in all the world. There are no people like the German people. Germany is supposed to win at everything. Germany is losing because its politicians are stupid and corrupt and do not serve the German people. They serve The Jew.  The Jew is the reason that [insert laundry list of social, political, and economic grievances here]. Give me power and I will make Germany great again, because I will fight The Jew. I am the only one who can make Germany great again. I am the only one even talking about this problem. Everyone else in government and academia and the lying media—everyone who is saying that I'm wrong; everyone who doesn’t want me to have power—they do not work for you. They are all working for The Jew.  I will work for you.”

…and that sounds really good...its a nice simple answer to complex problems…people want to believe that there are nice simple answers to complex problems. They buy into it…

-Replace “Germany” with “America.”

-Replace “Hitler” with “Trump”

-Replace “The Jew”  with The Mexicans. The Chinese. The Muslims.  

…and you can pretty much trace out the exact same path of our current President’s rise from political obscurity to High Office.
 

We fell for it again.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Skynstein]

47 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Hitler commited Treason. And guess what? They still elected him. If Hitler could commit the ultimate crime and still end up in power, nothing will truly bar anyone from being in a position of authority. Also, even though high crimes and misdemeanors is in the Constitution to remove the President should he do something illegal, it doesn't say that you can't run for President if you have been accused or even convicted of crimes in your past. Most likely, anyone who has that wouldn't win, but since when has anything about the 2016 election been the likely result of anything? Sure, enough is enough, but everything about the system in place right now is incompetent, meaning he may not face any consequences other than loosing the election in 2020 (and even then, he might not lose it).

Oopsie...

I rest my case. Trump is not the first, and won't be the last person to be elected in such circumstances.

[Shoblongoo]

1 minute ago, Cerberus87 said:

Oopsie...

...that awkward moment when the comparison is actually appropriate though...

[Moblin Major General]

4 minutes ago, Cerberus87 said:

Oopsie...

That's all, Folks!

(Jumps out a window a la Tommen Baratheon)

[Tryhard]

44 minutes ago, Cerberus87 said:

Oopsie...

I rest my case. Trump is not the first, and won't be the last person to be elected in such circumstances.

It's not like he's the only one to be compared to such, it just happens in political discourse.

But Trump is certainly adept at telling The Big Lie - he's the only authority you should listen to!

Edited June 8, 2017 by Tryhard

[Shoblongoo]

35 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

It's not like he's the only one to be compared to such, it just happens in political discourse.

But he is certainly adept at telling The Big Lie - he's the only authority you should listen to!

The Obama/Hitler comparisons were pretty crazy. I’m not a huge fan of Obama (voted against him both times) and there’s quite a bit that I think he did wrong. But that was purely just demagogues and closet-racists who couldn’t produce a coherent reason for why they so vehemently disliked the guy racing to the bottom of the moral barrel.    

Obama was a proponent of globalism and multiculturalism, an opponent of excessive nationalism, and the product of an interracial union educated by liberal Jews at an elite university.

i.e. he was everything Hitler wanted to gas to death  

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Res]

So I've been vaguely following the Comey saga and I'm again reminded of this article - it's about Russia, and how its modern dystopia is not the stuff imagined by fiction, but a twilight reality that's emerged as the result of a growing distrust in all public institutions. It's a little long, but a great read.

[Tryhard]

4 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

The Obama/Hitler comparisons were pretty crazy. I’m not a huge fan of Obama (voted against him both times) and there’s quite a bit that I think he did wrong. But that was purely just demagogues and closet-racists who couldn’t produce a coherent reason for why they so vehemently disliked the guy racing to the bottom of the moral barrel.  

You voted for McCain and Romney over Obama? I had you pegged for a liberal from your posts, but are you a disgruntled Republican/Conservative who just doesn't like Trump? Was there any reasons for disliking him compared to the candidates you voted for before beyond what you've already said and why do you think so many conservatives stick by Trump as a sense of loyalty?

Edited June 8, 2017 by Tryhard

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

10 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Its hard to say.

On the one hand, Trump has already gotten away with sooooooooooo much that he shouldn’t have gotten away with. And what new information continues to drip out concerning what a truly dishonest and reprehensible human being he truly is, its blunted by the fact that there’s already so much out there and its just another drop in the bucket at this point.

Like—its already out there and known that the guy admitted to sexual assault on audio, ran a fake university scam to cheat dupes out of tuition money, stole from a children’s hospital, bankrupted a casino, harassed topless underaged girls at his teenager beauty pageants, has been a named party in over 3,000 lawsuits alleging everything from business fraud to sexual harassment to embezzlement of charity funds, and maintains a general reputation of being an egomaniac and pathological liar who humiliates people for fun.

…and that was before he even became president…

On the other hand, there has to come a tipping point where people say enough is enough. And decide that they just aren’t going to put up with his nonsense anymore.

But every time something new  comes out you have to get to thinking: if the last 10 things he did didn’t bring him down, why is this going to do it?

I hope they get him though. I really do.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure too that most Trump voters won't be affected by this interrogation as they haven't before either by all of Trump's antics.

I guess the only one who really can do sth. against him is Rober Muller since forcing loyality of an indipendent working intelligence service is an absolute no-go.