Yojinbo Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I see a lot of people have quite a bit of faith in Hillary Clinton and wish for her to become president. I cannot agree with that sentiment. I think she'd make a terrible president to the point where I'd prefer a moderate conservative candidate over her - I don't think Jeb Bush would be a worse president than her. Ideally, public opinion on Obama improves until 2016 and allows a victory for Biden. I think that would be the lesser evil out of all the realistic options available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyTheDemonSlayer Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I'm not too big on Hillary either, but I'm supporting her because I think it's very important that the next president is a Democrat to ensure that Obama's policies aren't gutted. Though I lean more leftwards on economic issues, the real reason I can never imagine myself voting for a Republican is that I find their positions on LGBT rights and planned parenthood to be very immoral. If it were simply an economic question, I might vote for Jeb over Hillary, but with social policy included I could never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I see a lot of people have quite a bit of faith in Hillary Clinton and wish for her to become president. I cannot agree with that sentiment. I think she'd make a terrible president to the point where I'd prefer a moderate conservative candidate over her - I don't think Jeb Bush would be a worse president than her. Ideally, public opinion on Obama improves until 2016 and allows a victory for Biden. I think that would be the lesser evil out of all the realistic options available. that a good deal of bush 41, bush 43 and reagan's foreign policy teams would return in a jeb presidency would give me many qualms about voting for him. also fuck the prospect of any republican putting more conservatives on the scotus bench Edited August 5, 2015 by I.M. Gei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Venn diagrams are nice, but can you explain why this is a good/bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Venn diagrams are nice, but can you explain why this is a good/bad thing? uh this is more of a circle than a venn diagram, and that's the point of the graphic: literally the entire foreign policy teams of the previous bushes and reagan would return in a jeb bush administration. and uh, if you really need me to explain what's so bad about a rehash of dubya's foreign policy at the very least, then i really don't know what to tell you. fun factoid: dubya claimed to have looked into putin's eyes and seen a christian he could trust LOL oh right, jeb also praised jindal's education reforms in louisiana (read: gutting public schools even more, trying to get vouchers for students to attend schools teaching young earth creationism, gutting the louisiana state university system's budget. there's a reason jindal's approval rating in louisiana is under 30%, and this is a good part of it!) that doesn't sound "moderately conservative" to me at all. jeb's economic record from a decade back isn't even terribly impressive, either: his tenure as governor in florida saw him sit on a real estate bubble for eight years, and then it popped afterwards and his state's economy went to shit. Edited August 5, 2015 by I.M. Gei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 uh this is more of a circle than a venn diagram, and that's the point of the graphic: literally the entire foreign policy teams of the previous bushes and reagan would return in a jeb bush administration. and uh, if you really need me to explain what's so bad about a rehash of dubya's foreign policy at the very least, then i really don't know what to tell you. I had a reason for asking that, and I'm still waiting for an explanation. . .and this time, about why having the entire Republican foreign policy teams are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) the teams might not prove anything on their own—i admit, all i can glean from the presence of these guys would be likely directions that jeb's foreign policy would take—but the policy enacted while they were in administration is already awful enough on its own. iraq war 1 (h.w. bush) ended catastrophically, iraq war 2 (dubya) eventually melted down with daesh, and reagan staged a series of illegal unconstitutional foreign policy actions and took a lot of credit for decisions ultimately made by gorbachev Edited August 5, 2015 by I.M. Gei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I had a reason for asking that, and I'm still waiting for an explanation. . .and this time, about why having the entire Republican foreign policy teams are bad. decide for yourself, then! i don't disagree with everything these presidents have done with foreign policy, but i can't say i want their teams back in the fray. Edited August 5, 2015 by Phoenix Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 [...] that a good deal of bush 41, bush 43 and reagan's foreign policy teams would return in a jeb presidency would give me many qualms about voting for him I'm not sure what your point is? I'm not arguing in favor of Jeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what your point is? I'm not arguing in favor of Jeb. I see a lot of people have quite a bit of faith in Hillary Clinton and wish for her to become president. I cannot agree with that sentiment. I think she'd make a terrible president to the point where I'd prefer a moderate conservative candidate over her - I don't think Jeb Bush would be a worse president than her. Ideally, public opinion on Obama improves until 2016 and allows a victory for Biden. I think that would be the lesser evil out of all the realistic options available. i'm rejoindering the notion that a hillary presidency, as bad as she can be, would be worse than jeb Edited August 5, 2015 by I.M. Gei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMikey Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 The first GOP debate is tonight (actually two; the seven lesser-polling candidates will debate at 5:00, then the ten higher-polling ones at 9:00). I keep waiting for Trump to say something so stupid that even the far-right will turn and run, but after the little-to-no amount of backlash towards that McCain comment I'm starting to wonder if it'll ever happen. I'm almost too cynical about politics to support anybody. Sanders seems to be one of the only honest ones but I split with him on a variety of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) based on what i've heard, trump's been advised by his campaign managers that he should dial down his trumpyness, and he's agreed to do so for the debate. being a socialist/progressive/"libtard" as some would put it, i'm sure all of the candidates will say things hilariously stupid when perceived through a far-left lens so it'll be a good night. Edited August 6, 2015 by Phoenix Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 oh yeah i'm excited for the debate as well, but really i feel that donald trump may get the republican nomination. i feel that he'd run as an independent if he doesnt and "steal" republican votes. but its still kinda early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMikey Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I tend to find Republican debates entertaining, too (the 5:00 one is on now), but at the same time I'll probably just feel like flipping the television at some point because of some asinine monologue on how the true way to stop poverty is to let big businesses do whatever they want. If Trump runs as a third-party, I think the Democratic candidate's victory is pretty much a done deal, as all he would do is split the conservative vote. Edited August 6, 2015 by TheCosmicDude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 The first GOP debate is tonight (actually two; the seven lesser-polling candidates will debate at 5:00, then the ten higher-polling ones at 9:00). I keep waiting for Trump to say something so stupid that even the far-right will turn and run, but after the little-to-no amount of backlash towards that McCain comment I'm starting to wonder if it'll ever happen. remember that "swift boat veterans for truth" was a thing back during the 2004 cycle, and a lot of the GOP base that supports trump were wearing purple heart band-aids to mock kerry's military service back at the 2004 republican national convention. i don't think they have too many qualms about denigrating the military service of people they disagree with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze The Great Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 The first GOP debate is tonight (actually two; the seven lesser-polling candidates will debate at 5:00, then the ten higher-polling ones at 9:00). I keep waiting for Trump to say something so stupid that even the far-right will turn and run, but after the little-to-no amount of backlash towards that McCain comment I'm starting to wonder if it'll ever happen. I'm almost too cynical about politics to support anybody. Sanders seems to be one of the only honest ones but I split with him on a variety of things. Far-right (well, relatively speaking) person here. I've hated Trump from the start. I don't want to sound like I have a "better than thou" attitude, but I've never seen why someone could want him to get the nomination, unless they are a liberal who wants conservative votes split. He's good at what he does, i.e. making money and being Donald Trump. I highly doubt that he would be good as a president. I really hope that he will drop put of the race totally, and I hope he does it fast. Personally, I'm really interested to watch the debate tonight, as long as some unexpected conflict doesn't pop up. I've done a fair bit of research, but there are so many candidates in the GOP this cycle that you have to do a ton of searching just to have a decent grasp on it all. Right now, I'm leaning towards Rubio or maybe even Cruz, but I'm still far from decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMikey Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Far-right (well, relatively speaking) person here. I've hated Trump from the start. I don't want to sound like I have a "better than thou" attitude, but I've never seen why someone could want him to get the nomination, unless they are a liberal who wants conservative votes split. He's good at what he does, i.e. making money and being Donald Trump. I highly doubt that he would be good as a president. I really hope that he will drop put of the race totally, and I hope he does it fast. Personally, I'm really interested to watch the debate tonight, as long as some unexpected conflict doesn't pop up. I've done a fair bit of research, but there are so many candidates in the GOP this cycle that you have to do a ton of searching just to have a decent grasp on it all. Right now, I'm leaning towards Rubio or maybe even Cruz, but I'm still far from decided. I'm interested to hear more conservative perspectives about Trump, as people seem split on him for different reasons. My very-conservative immediate family thinks he's an "immoral" blowhard who's only running so Hillary will win, while my even-more-conversative extended family thinks he's the only one in the race with any guts. Plus, the main problem the GOP has is that everyone who doesn't want Trump wants someone different from all the other dissenters; there are too many candidates and none of them are very strong. In other news, that debate was worth seeing just to hear Lindsey Graham actually open an argument with, "Look, don't vote for Hillary Clinton." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze The Great Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm interested to hear more conservative perspectives about Trump, as people seem split on him for different reasons. My very-conservative immediate family thinks he's an "immoral" blowhard who's only running so Hillary will win, while my even-more-conversative extended family thinks he's the only one in the race with any guts. Plus, the main problem the GOP has is that everyone who doesn't want Trump wants someone different from all the other dissenters; there are too many candidates and none of them are very strong. In other news, that debate was worth seeing just to hear Lindsey Graham actually open an argument with, "Look, don't vote for Hillary Clinton." I appreciate Trump's plain speech, but plain speech doesn't really have a place in modern day politics. Especially from a guy with a reputation of being as arrogant as Trump has been. I want him gone because he will split votes too much, and if he somehow won the Republican primaries, the liberals would tear him to pieces. He's just not doing any good for the Republicans. Hopefully he's out of the race soon. I agree with that. Also, Perry describing Hillary as "good at email". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 trump is a level beyond plain speech there's a difference between being politically incorrect and being factually wrong but refusing to admit it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze The Great Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 trump is a level beyond plain speech there's a difference between being politically incorrect and being factually wrong but refusing to admit it I will concede that. The main point is that he has displayed an inability to act and speak as one who would hold the office of "leader of the free world", as it's often called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eail Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Paul only got 5;28 of speaking time and no post-debate interview despite being active and 'fired up' during the time he did have. Guy needs more attention than he's getting but I really hope this whole thing doesn't turn out to be a repeat of his Dad. I'll be very interested to see how the poll numbers change after this first debate and if the results will require a few differences on the next one so far as allocating time goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Paul only got 5;28 of speaking time and no post-debate interview despite being active and 'fired up' during the time he did have. Guy needs more attention than he's getting but I really hope this whole thing doesn't turn out to be a repeat of his Dad. buddy, i didn't write that effortpost detailing what an awful piece of shit ron paul is just for you to ignore it and sing his praises again but either way, repost: yes, it's the media blackout which killed ron paul's chances the gazillion times he ran for president, and certainly not his own fault for being a horrible racist theocrat with a publication under his name filled with years' worth of abject racism oh let's look at some of his racist newsletters too! If you live in a major city, you’ve probably already heard about the newest threat to your life and limb, and your family: carjacking. It is the hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos. The youth simply walk up to a car they like, pull a gun, tell the family to get out, steal their jewelry and wallets, and take the car to wreck. Such actions have ballooned in the recent months. In the old days, average people could avoid such youth by staying out of bad neighborhoods. Empowered by media, police, and political complicity, however, the youth now roam everywhere looking for cars to steal and people to rob. What can you do? More and more Americans are carrying a gun in the car. An ex-cop I know advises that if you have to use a gun on a youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example). I frankly don’t know what to make of such advice, but even in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I’ve urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming. i mean just look at this shit. "hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos"? "the animals are coming"? this is the same damn rhetoric dylann roof consumed which inspired him to murder nine people in charleston, but with free republic-style dogwhistling about how "the animals are coming" instead. oh right, ron paul opposes the civil rights act of 1964 too! the fact that the paul family views the passing of the civil rights act not as a proud moment in our country's history which liberated millions of their countrymen from literal de jure apartheid-esque conditions, but instead as a massive overreach of federal government power that infringed upon their "property rights" to chase anyone who fails a paper bag test out of their medical offices with noose in hand, really gives away the ruse imo p.s. to cap it all off, the paulbomb Ron Paul wants to define life as starting at conception, build a fence along the US-Mexico border, prevent the Supreme Court from hearing cases on the Establishment Clause or the right to privacy, permitting the return of sodomy laws and the like (a bill which he has repeatedly re-introduced), pull out of the UN, disband NATO, end birthright citizenship, deny federal funding to any organisation which "which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style" along with destroying public education and social security,, and abolish the Federal Reserve in order to put America back on the gold standard. He was also the sole vote against divesting US federal government investments in corporations doing business with the genocidal government of the Sudan. Oh, and he believes that the Left is waging a war on religion and Christmas, he's against gay marriage, is against the popular vote, opposes the Civil Rights Act of 1964, wants the estate tax repealed, is STILL making racist remarks, believes that the Panama Canal should be the property of the United States, and believes in New World Order conspiracy theories, not to mention his belief that the International Baccalaureate program is UN mind control. Ron Paul is fucking crazy and horribly disconnected from reality. Edited August 7, 2015 by I.M. Gei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 If any Libertarian candidate wins I will renounce my American citizenship. It is a poisonous ideology designed to turn back the clock to before the reforms of Theodore Roosevelt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eail Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 You do realize that comment was about Rand and not Ron yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I wanted Rand Paul as my president, his Dad was my first choice but the media blackout killed Ron's chances. Rand was supposed to be our golden boy but instead he backed down and became meek, flip flopped on issues, and sank into the GOP crowd. still no response on my post detailing why it's not so much the media's fault that ron paul has never been viable nationally, but rather his own glaring flaws as a person and candidate which did that but if you want a word on rand, then fuck him too for his opposition to the civil rights act. good to see the apple didn't fall far from the tree there. a tree which probably saw a fair few black folk hanged from it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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