Who do you ship Hector and Lyn with?

[Alazen]

http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/right-to-left.html

The Japanese are certainly capable of putting up charts that go left to right.

[Florete]

Lyn/Florina is totally canon and if you disagree you're wrong. (THIS IS A JOKE. DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY)

It's actually not a joke, I'm totally serious.

Hector, well, I only ever get him A with Eliwood. But I guess if I were to "pair" him, it would be with Farina.

[ZemZem]

Hector/Lyn is so cliche it hurts.

I like the build-up between Hector and Farina. It just works. Plus she's HNM/HHM exclusive. Hector's exclusive lady, ya know what I'm sayin', ya'll. Hector gets his B support with his best buddy Eliwood, and his A support is with Farina and she'll give him a little sugar.

...That was my mindset three years ago. When I actually grinded for supports. Not anymore! Still, Hector/Farina is a pairing I actually like.

Also ditto for Rath/Lyn. It makes way more sense than Hector/Lyn.

[Brinzy]

Honestly prefer Lyn/Florina and Farina/Hector to Lyn/Hector, by a mile.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Brinzy

[Just call me AL]

Well like I said, Hector and Lyn are two of the main lords. So of course they interact more, and that is a completely, totally valid argument.

And like I'm trying to say, it might not be as valid as you think. Considering that most pairs that do qualify as "implied" tend to have characters that have the most interactions with each other as opposed to anyone else in their support lists. I'll grant you that some like Ike/Elincia don't adhere to that trend. But I think in Ike/Elincia's particular case, they're the exception and not the rule.

Lyn/Rath gets more time than Nino/Jaffar, too

Actually, that's not true. Nino and Jaffar interact with each other in Four-Fanged Offense, Pale Flower of Darkness, Battle Before Dawn, Night of Farewells, and Cog of Destiny. Rath and Lyn only interact with each other in Blood of Pride and Kinship's Bond, and don't really feel the same way as Nino's interactions with Jaffar. And even if it was true that Lyn/Rath got more screentime than Nino/Jaffar, that doesn't change the fact that Jaffar gets more interaction with Nino than Erk does, or that Rath's interactions with Lyn are tied with Lyn's interactions with Wil in terms of screentime amount.

plus every interaction Lyn and Rath have shows some attraction between the two, as do their supports despite Rath's aloofness.

It doesn't seem to be enough for a romantic relationship. In all honestly, Lyn and Rath seem more like friends to me and nothing more. Even his last lines in their A supports seemed more akin to someone saying do what you want somewhat apathetically. Not to mention, the only reason why Rath helped Lyn out in Lyn's Story was because he thought she was Sacaean. Not saying he was wrong, but something like that just doesn't seem like much to go on for romance. The fact that he only starts to reveal his past to Lyn towards the end of their B support doesn't help, seeing as Hector doesn't need a support conversation to reveal his own past to her.

Rath gets the same kind of "affection" with Lyn that Hector does, the same build-up

That's pretty subjective. Seeing how little interaction he gets with Lyn in comparison to Hector.

aside from the extra scenes Hector gets in HM (which are only gotten through supports, which is not uncommon for supports in the FE series)

Except where did I say that the extra scenes were support conversations? I only said that they required supports to view them. By the time theyre even viewed, the A support would have already been formed.

so without supports Rath gets MORE build-up and affection than Hector).

So you're saying that stuff like the fact that you can only unlock a song in the Sound Room by giving Hector and Lyn an A support with each other, the fact that Lyn is the only girl Hector ever says "I love you" to, and Lyn is the only female shown comforting Hector of his pain from losing Uther, is all somehow nulled by that their extra scenes require supports to view them?

I'm sorry, but what?! I'm pretty sure getting extra scenes by having a certain pair formed as early as possible is how predestined pairings work. How saying one pair get more build-up than another pair because the extra scenes that the other pair gets require supports to be viewed in the first place works is beyond me.

IFun fact: Azel/Tiltyu was supposed to be canon, it was supposed to be shown in the third act of FE4 that never made it into the game. So even though it never made it into the game, I still ship and consider Azel/Tiltyu canon.

I think the fact that multiple pairs could allow a player to go multiple routes depending on what pairs they formed invalidates any sort of canonicity a pair might have had in the beta version.

Alm and Celica does not equal Hector and Lyn.

Your whole argument against Hector/Lyn being a heavily implied pair seems to stem from the fact that they're both Lords. I just thought I'd bring up an example where any sort of logic from such an argument doesn't fly. My point being: Lord status shouldn't affect how implied a pairing is. Especially if the pairing in question is favored by the game itself. In Hector/Lyns case, even Ninian and Serra ship Hector/Lyn.

Yes really, I literally just finished playing through the game again a couple of weeks ago. Eliwood does interact primarily with Ninian, but he still interacts with Lyn just as much as Hector.

Most of his conversations with Lyn don't even involve some sort of sexual tension at all. Hector's on the other hand, does. Especially given the bickering on the Dread Isle, and the flirting in Nabata and Bern.

I also recall one of Eliwood's interactions with Hector supporting the notion of Lyn winding up with Eliwood

Except that the scene your referring to is immediately followed by Hector admitting that he was teasing Eliwood. Whereas the conversation I was referring to pretty much outright ignores the possibility that Lyn and Eliwood may have an A support. Given that during that conversation, Lyn is asking Eliwood about the confirmation in any grain of truth of Nergal's words, and how long Hector knew about it.

(Eliwood and Lyn talk)

Lyn: Eliwood! Wait!

Eliwood: What is it, Lyndis?

Lyn: Is it true what Nergal said?

Eliwood: You mean about Lord Uther?

Lyn: He said he's dead... When-- Did you know, Eliwood?!

Eliwood: ...Hector has been acting a little strange... So I forced Oswin to tell me. It was the same illness that took his father. The sickness came on suddenly. It took less than a year for the disease to spread.

Lyn: So when we met him in Castle Ostia, he was...

Eliwood: He was dying. Yethe He didn't want Hector or us to know... He pushed himself too far. Im sure he was told he shouldn't be moving about...

Lyn: Hector...when... when... did he...

Eliwood: Only recently... He figured it out when he saw Lord Uther wasnt at the castle. He pressed Oswin to tell him. ......After that, so as not to distract us, Hector pretended that nothing was amiss...

Lyn: Thats...no-- That's...

Eliwood: Lyndis...

And nowhere does the initiation requirement say that a Hector/Lyn A support is needed.

Every pairing has lines like that in their supports.

I've played this game and looked through the script enough times to know that this statement is factually untrue.

Sain/Rebecca: Sain's the only one saying "I love you" in this. But it's clearly a one-sided relationship. There's no indication that Rebecca feels the same way about him aside from the fact that they end up marrying despite their supports' contexts.

Lowen/Rebecca: I'll grant you on this one. But it seems more like that Lowen doesn't know where his feelings for Rebecca lie. He does say that he cares about her, but outside of the fact that their paired ending says that they marry, we don't know how much.

Wil/Rebecca: Here's another one that I'll grant you.

Erk/Nino: There's no clear indication that Erk loves Nino. We do know that, like with Lowen and Rebecca, he does care about her. But, again, outside of paired endings, we don't know how much.

Jaffar/Nino: Like with Hector's and Lyn's Battle Preparations conversation, there's a definite love confession. So I'll grant you on this one.

Priscilla/Guy: Guy may be attracted to Priscilla (with the emphasis on "may be"), but nowhere does he make an outright love confession on-screen. Next!

Heath/Priscilla: Here's another one that I'll grant you. Even though they (sadly) don't wind up with each other.

Erk/Priscilla: There's no outright indication. But at the least, Erk does seem to like Priscilla enough to say with her despite him no longer being her employee. And seeing as Erk's the only one that gets a good ending with Priscilla...

Heath/Vaida: If there's anything that suggests that what Heath may be feeling for Vaida in this one is love, at the least he doesn't say it outright. Nor does Vaida seem to reciprocate.

Harken/Vaida: At the least, he's showing admiration towards her. Whether he actually loves her or not is uncertain. But like with Heath/Vaida, the girl in the pair doesn't seem to care.

Legault/Isadora: Legault flirts with Isadora at the least, but I think that's more from Legault being Legault. If there is romantic love, it sure doesn't seem to be mutual. More than anything, they seem to be good friends.

Renault/Isadora: This one isn't supposed to be romantic. So naturally, there would be no indications of mutual love.

Harken/Isadora: Considering their established relationship, something that shows romance is pretty explicit in this one.

Sain/Fiora: Sain's being Sain in this one. And Fiora doesnt seem like she loves him, despite their paired ending saying that they later marry. Care about him, yes. But love him? Eh...

Kent/Fiora: They're like two peas in a pod. They might not say it outright, but what they're feeling for each other is obvious. (Farina even lampshades this in her own supports with Kent.)

Kent/Farina: Doesn't seem to be much romance in this one. Their paired ending might imply it, but that's all a paired ending can do. It seems more like one of those typical high school situations more than anything. Given the context.

Dart/Farina: Seems more like a friendly rivalry than a romance. Sure, like always, their paired ending implies romance, but no indication of it is ever present. I still ship it.

Serra's paired endings: I'm just gonna say it right now. Theres no indication of at least mutual love whatsoever outside of their endings. More than anything, the guys in the relationships that result in paired endings can't stand Serra's guts.

Eliwood/Fiora: All Eliwood says to Fiora is "I would like for you to stay nearby". Doesn't mean that he loves her, though.

Eliwood/Lyn: In their supports, theres nothing but something that equates to them being good friends and nothing more in their supports. Fast-forward to Battle-Preparations, we get an altered intro that shows Lyn admiring Eliwood all of a sudden, and Eliwood being caught off guard. Unfortunately, it doesnt go anywhere outside of a paired ending.

Eliwood/Ninian: I don't think I need to spell this one out.

Lyn/Rath: Towards the end of the A support, all Lyn says is "I dont feel I can leave you". I would say the same to any friend, to be honest. There doesn't seem to be anything major that indicates any mutual romance apart from a paired ending. Even when considering the fact that Rath's not good with people.

Lyn/Kent: It's Kent thats showing the romance here. Given his line of "Even were I not a knight, even were you not my lady. My heart would not change." So theres another that I'll grant you. But it literally doesn't come until the A support, though.

Hector/Florina: This pair doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word "romance". All of their supports are centered around the running gag that Florina is unable to thank Hector for involuntarily "saving" her until the A support. Hector in this just doesn't seem like he want to see her hurt, but it doesn't seem like romance at all.

Hector/Farina: Another one that doesn't know the meaning of "romance". But at least this one doesn't rely on a gag for it to work. But again, this seems more like Hector's being a good friend more than a romantic relationship. Especially since, if Mark's absent, Hectors all like "Why am I with this woman, again?" in the Epilogue.

Hector/Lyn: Towards the end of their A support, Hector says something that implies that he's formed a crush on her. And during their Battle Preparations conversation, through Hector's "I can't smack a woman I've lost my heart to", such implications are outright confirmed. And then there's this conversation, which heavily implies that Hectors feelings towards Lyn are mutual.

Hector: ...What is it?

Lyn: Hector... Im certain...that you did not...cry... So, I will... This...is your share...of tears... Don't say...anything. Just, for a little while, let me lean on you. For a little while...

Hector:......

Lyn: ... ... ... ... ... ... ...Don't...

Hector: Hm?

Lyn: ...Don't die... ...Please, you--

Hector: ...I know.

So that makes 10 pairs out of 28 pairs that are romantic in some sense. Not exactly what I'd call "every pair in the game implies romance", though.

Like I said earlier, "if any pairing were to be made canon, there would be no random villagers." If I.S. were to make anything canon in Awakening, Lucina's mother wouldn't be the random villager option. It just wouldn't.

It might be, given as someone else pointed out, the CD drama identifies a villager as Lucina's mother. (I suspect the CD drama writers did that to avoid s***storms, but the point still stands.)

They interact largely because Lyn was given lord status and, to the player at least, is a meaningful character.

Except, again, not every pair that gets significant interactions is a Lord pairing. And why a pairing gets screentime in the first place is often a result of I.S. putting their own headcanon regarding who winds up with whom in the games themselves.

Consider that the only non-Caelin character she can recruit from Lyn's Mode is Rath, and consider the fact that it was Rath, not Hector, that saved her once and came to her aid a second time. What has Hector done for Lyn besides have forced lord discussions with her?

He came to Caelin's aid and he shielded Lyn from Sonia's display of power. Surely those must account for something.

Their backgrounds are just so mismatched, and going forward, I can't see why Lyn would go from living in the plains trying to avenge her clan, to living in Caelin as royalty... to living in Ostia as a housewife.

The Eliwood/Lyn Hector's Story Endgame conversation, and the Hector/Lyn Hector's Story Endgame conversation, both make it pretty darn clear that the fact that Hector just lost his whole family is the reason why Lyn would make a decision like that. And I don't see how she'd be reduced to being merely a housewife. Seeing as there's nothing that says helping Hector become "an enlightened leader" can't involve helping him with stuff like lawmaking or leading Lycia.

It's not like Lyn even knew about her heritage. I definitely can see Lyn going back to live life on the plains with Rath, a character that shares many, many similarities to her, even background.

Implying that Hector has no similarities to Lyn.

Also look at Sue.

I see Lyn more in this than I do in this. Especially in the faces.

Anyway, the 20th anniversary artbook has Florina in the lead to be Hector's wife and Lyn in last place.

Except for the fact that the artbook chose specifically to showcase the ending CG that shows Hector with Lyn. More than anything, that shows that what I suspected about I.S. themselves shipping Hector/Lyn may not be far from the truth.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29973&p=1818000

Edited August 4, 2015 by Just call me AL

[MCProductions]

Guys, Lyn is in Lilina's name, it's natural this indicates LynxHector as canon. Litterally the only pro-HectorxLyn argument I've yet to see here

I'm just going to say, as a LynxEliwood supporter, if you support RathxLyn, HectorxLyn, or even LynxFlorina, more power to you. You have a valid opinion that you were allowed to form thanks to the game's mechanics allowing for multiple pairings. While these arguments are all valid, it doesn't change the fact that all pairings are canon, even some impossible in game ones.

Don't believe me, well in Thracia 776, it's revealed in a Japanese guidebook for that game, that Raquesis had Nanna with Finn, and her other kid,whose name escapes me at the moment, with Beowolf. This love triangle is completely impossible in FE4 to accomplish, so two games exist in the same timeline that contradict each other's canon. Combined with the other evidence I've mentioned for a Multiverse existing in FE, it's safe to say that all pairings are canon.

[Phantom037]

Where's Hector's option for his beard?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

And like I'm trying to say, it might not be as valid as you think. Considering that most pairs that do qualify as "implied" tend to have characters that have the most interactions with each other as opposed to anyone else in their support lists. I'll grant you that some like Ike/Elincia don't adhere to that trend. But I think in Ike/Elincia's particular case, they're the exception and not the rule.

It is exactly as valid as I think. To say otherwise is just pure denial. The main lords interact way more than the other characters do with them. That's just simple fact.

It doesn't seem to be enough for a romantic relationship. In all honestly, Lyn and Rath seem more like friends to me and nothing more. Even his last lines in their A supports seemed more akin to someone saying do what you want somewhat apathetically. Not to mention, the only reason why Rath helped Lyn out in Lyn's Story was because he thought she was Sacaean. Not saying he was wrong, but something like that just doesn't seem like much to go on for romance. The fact that he only starts to reveal his past to Lyn towards the end of their B support doesn't help, seeing as Hector doesn't need a support conversation to reveal his own past to her.

And Hector's relationship doesn't seem to be romantic to me at all, more like friends and nothing more. Rath and Lyn on the other hand? Much more romantic. Hector's romantic relationship with Lyn is one of the most forced things I have ever seen, whereas Rath/Lyn feels totally natural. "Hector doesn't need a support" oh well I bet his Lord status helps that, too...

That's pretty subjective. Seeing how little interaction he gets with Lyn in comparison to Hector.

Well again...Lord Status. It's also ridiculously subjective to say Hector's interactions with Lyn get more affection than Rath's.

Except where did I say that the extra scenes were support conversations? I only said that they required supports to view them. By the time theyre even viewed, the A support would have already been formed.

Never did I say you said the extra scenes were support conversations. I said you get the scenes through the conversations. "I only said that they required supports to view them." <--- That's exactly what I was saying.

So you're saying that stuff like the fact that you can only unlock a song in the Sound Room by giving Hector and Lyn an A support with each other, the fact that Lyn is the only girl Hector ever says "I love you" to, and Lyn is the only female shown comforting Hector of his pain from losing Uther, is all somehow nulled by that their extra scenes require supports to view them?

Except that's not what I said at all nor is it what I meant nor is it implied in any of my statements, don't try twisting words or pulling things out of thin air.

I'll say it again: The only reason Hector and Lyn get scenes and such like that is because they are both Lords. Those scenes and the song do not in any way, shape, or form invalidate Rath/Lyn or make Hector/Lyn more "canonical" or "probable."

And to say Lyn is the only girl to comfort Hector from his pain of losing Uther is ludicrous! "Oh boy, the game didn't directly say 'FLORINA COMFORTED HECTOR!' so she must not have at all!" Of course Florina would comfort him! As would Farina! Any wife would.

I'm sorry, but what?! I'm pretty sure getting extra scenes by having a certain pair formed as early as possible is how predestined pairings work. How saying one pair get more build-up than another pair because the extra scenes that the other pair gets require supports to be viewed in the first place works is beyond me.

It's like this:

If you go with Eliwood/Lyn, then that relationship gets more buildup.

If you go with Hector/Lyn, then that relationship gets more buildup.

If you go with Rath/Lyn, then that relationship gets more buildup.

And so on and so forth! But the fact still remains that, taking away all supports, Rath is the only one Lyn ever seems to have even the slightest attraction to. Everything she says to Eliwood and Hector are just friend-friend things, not romantic-friend things. Nowhere anywhere did I ever detect any sexual tension or romantic interest between any of the three lords.

I think the fact that multiple pairs could allow a player to go multiple routes depending on what pairs they formed invalidates any sort of canonicity a pair might have had in the beta version.

The point I was getting at was that they outright stated they intended Azel/Tiltyu to be canon.

Your whole argument against Hector/Lyn being a heavily implied pair seems to stem from the fact that they're both Lords. I just thought I'd bring up an example where any sort of logic from such an argument doesn't fly. My point being: Lord status shouldn't affect how implied a pairing is. Especially if the pairing in question is favored by the game itself. In Hector/Lyns case, even Ninian and Serra ship Hector/Lyn.

No, my whole argument stems from the fact that Rath/Lyn is just as heavily implied as Hector/Lyn. It (Rath/Lyn) is favored just as much by the game itself as Hector/Lyn.

So I'll say it this way: FE2 does not equal FE7. If they all worked the same way, Ike/Elincia would totally be canon.

Most of his conversations with Lyn don't even involve some sort of sexual tension at all. Hector's on the other hand, does. Especially given the bickering on the Dread Isle, and the flirting in Nabata and Bern.

They seemed pretty sexually tense to me. Rath is very clearly trying to hide all feelings and emotions, that's pretty tense. Hector's don't involve any tension until the very end. As for the Dread Isle, Nabata, and Bern...that didn't seem at all like flirting, not even one little bit.

Except that the scene your referring to is immediately followed by Hector admitting that he was teasing Eliwood. Whereas the conversation I was referring to pretty much outright ignores the possibility that Lyn and Eliwood may have an A support. Given that during that conversation, Lyn is asking Eliwood about the confirmation in any grain of truth of Nergal's words, and how long Hector knew about it.

And? Teasing or no, the point stands. People generally tend to tease others when they see some attraction, that's literally a fact of life. As for supports...that falls exactly in line with my line of reasoning that Hector and Lyn share no attraction until the end, and only if you support the two of them. It falls exactly in line with them just being good friends.

I've played this game and looked through the script enough times to know that this statement is factually untrue.

*Implying I have no experience with the game*

Don't try to pit your experience with the game against mine. Frankly, it's just insulting, and rather pompous of you. I've played through it enough and looked through the scripts enough, too. And like I said earlier, I just finished going through it (again) a couple of weeks ago, but that doesn't mean I know more about the game than you. And I never said both characters gave a love-line, all I said was that every paired support has a love-line! Whether or not both characters say a love-line, well, that is something I just didn't say. So, yeah...every pairing implies romance, whether it be one-sided or not. And EVERY ending clearly shows that the paired characters love each other, so to say any is "one-sided" is just not true.

It might be, given as someone else pointed out, the CD drama identifies a villager as Lucina's mother. (I suspect the CD drama writers did that to avoid s***storms, but the point still stands.)

I liken the CD drama to the multiple mangas that came out about FE4 forever ago, where multiple pairings were used depending on the manga. None of it was ever made canon. Same case with the CD. So, again, if I.S. were to officially make a pairing canon, make an official statement saying "such-and-such is canon," etc. etc., then it is ridiculously unlikely that they'd make any parent-character wind up with "random villager."

Now my point is...every pairing Hector and Lyn have is just as valid as the next. Rath/Lyn is just as valid and built-up as Hector/Lyn. Hector/Farina is just as valid as Hector/Florina (although less built-up, methinks, in fact it's probably the least built-up of Hector's pairings). Eliwood/Lyn is just as valid as Rath/Lyn. And so on and so forth.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Fire Emblem Fan

[Brinzy]

Most of what I would say has already been said, but to address some things:

He came to Caelin's aid and he shielded Lyn from Sonia's display of power. Surely those must account for something.

Hector did not help Lyn in Caelin because of romance or any form of affection. He went to Caelin with Eliwood because they were pursuing Marquess Laus. Why on earth would this count for anything for Hector? If anything, Florina built more rapport with Hector than Lyn in that chapter. You can say that the scene was just meant for humor, but more importantly, there was no scene or even any feelings between Hector and Lyn by that point.

If you're referring to Night of Farewells, I'm pretty sure he helped Lyn because, well, she was standing on a platform that was about to sink. Hector would have done the same thing for anyone else. On the other hand, Rath saved Lyn specifically because she was Sacaen. Lyn appreciated what Hector did, but Hector's actions were what any friend would do for someone, while Rath's actions were specifically because of who Lyn is.

Sure, those acts Hector did count for something - friendship and duty. Rath's actions were motivated clearly because of who Lyn is as a person. Simply having more scenes because of lord status doesn't make something more likely.

And, yes, it is entirely because of lord status that Lyn and Hector have extra scenes with each other. Lords cannot die or fail to be recruited, therefore Lords will have more scenes and/or higher importance with other Lords than non-lords. There is no debate around this whatsoever.

The Eliwood/Lyn Hector's Story Endgame conversation, and the Hector/Lyn Hector's Story Endgame conversation, both make it pretty darn clear that the fact that Hector just lost his whole family is the reason why Lyn would make a decision like that. And I don't see how she'd be reduced to being merely a housewife. Seeing as there's nothing that says helping Hector become "an enlightened leader" can't involve helping him with stuff like lawmaking or leading Lycia.

Hector losing his entire family doesn't automatically mean that Lyn is going to stay with him. Such an argument doesn't even make sense, because Florina and Farina also would stay with him.

The housewife thing was not meant to be taken literally, but now that you've mentioned the other stuff, what exactly stops Hector's other supports from performing this role? You have given reasons why someone would want to be with Hector, but these are not reasons mutually exclusive to Lyn.

Implying that Hector has no similarities to Lyn.

What meaningful similarities do Hector and Lyn have that Rath doesn't? I guess if you want to split hairs about something meaningless you could mention that Rath's father is still alive. Lyn is a plainswoman at heart; this is backed up by all of her endings except Eli/Lyn involving giving up Caelin. Hector becomes Marquess Ostia. Rath absolutely has more similarities to Lyn than Hector does even if you ignore their backgrounds, which uh, are far more similar than Hector's.

I see Lyn more in this than I do in this. Especially in the faces.

.What part of Lilina shouts "Lyn" that doesn't shout Florina or Farina? Earlier you said it was subjective, so I'd like for you to show me what subjectively makes Lilina look like Lyn and not the other two.

It isn't even about their physical looks. It's about the fact that Lilina's physical looks can easily be traced to be a mix of Hector and any of his three wives, while Sue's physical looks most definitely

Oh also:

Rath and Lyn

When her grandfather died, Lyn asked that Caelin be taken under Ostian protection. She set out for Sacae, where she was reunited with Rath of the Kutolah. They had a daughter and lived happily in the plains.

So you mean to tell me that Rath is more likely to have said daughter with "random villager" for the sake of Lyn being with Hector? If that's how you want to ship your ideas, that's fine - I'm just letting you know that the only people that have children with "random villager" as their official significant other are people who were already married (Hawkeye) or people with no in-game pairings (Canas). There is absolutely no logical reason to introduce a character's father and have one in-game option as her potential mother... and then not use said mother.

For those reading, once again, there's nothing wrong with shipping Hector/Lyn. My argument here is using four in-game characters (Hector/Florina or Farina + Rath/Lyn) makes TONS more sense than assuming that two people with even less in common fall in love and shut everyone else out from having a child with anyone else in the army that they've been building rapport. There is in fact nothing that says Hector/Lyn is any more right than any other.

(... this entire argument started because someone pushed Hector/Lyn.)

Edited August 4, 2015 by Brinzy

[Crysta]

This entire argument started, continued, and will continue because someone pushed a pairing other people didn't like and people think they know the characters and their motivations better than the other people.

I'm amused at how condescending some of this is beginning to sound. Serious business.

Still HectorxLyn all da way.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Crysta

[Yari]

I ship LynxRath and HectorxEliwood. Please dont kill me! I also ship the both with Forina but that's mostly because Florina is one of those characters I don't ship with anyone so I just ship her with this person today and I'll ship her with a diferent person tomorrow. Edited August 4, 2015 by Yari

[RidellCrimea]

I'm with the majority here. I ship Lyn x Rath and Hector x Florina. But Lyn x Hector isn't bad. Their conversations with each other were really entertaining.

[Just call me AL]

It is exactly as valid as I think. To say otherwise is just pure denial. The main lords interact way more than the other characters do with them. That's just simple fact.

But it doesn't make certain Lord pairs less viable than others. If a Lord's not getting shipped with a Pegasus Knight by the game itself (which no Lord in this game is), they're often shipped with either another Lord, or a major non-Lord character.

And Hector's relationship doesn't seem to be romantic to me at all, more like friends and nothing more.

What about the fact that Hector/Lyn’s one of the only pairs that actually involves a love confession? Or that Lyn is the only one shown to do what Hector’s paired endings describe his wife to be doing? If those aren’t any indicators of romance, then I don’t know what is.

Rath and Lyn on the other hand? Much more romantic.

Lyn mode summary: Rath joins Lyn because she's a Sacaen woman. The end.

At the Eubans chapter:

Lyn: Oh you're that Sacaen guy!

Rath: Yeah.

Lyn: Wanna join?

Rath: Don't see why I can't.

How is any of that romantic, exactly? And note that this is just their interactions outside of their supports. I don’t think the exact words in their interactions are necessary here.

"Hector doesn't need a support" oh well I bet his Lord status helps that, too...

Even if they weren’t Lords, Hector and Lyn would get the same amount of interaction as they do already.

Well again...Lord Status.

Which, again, shouldn’t have any bearing on how implied certain pairs are in the series.

It's also ridiculously subjective to say Hector's interactions with Lyn get more affection than Rath's.

I don't recall a single scene in the game, outside of supports, that shows Lyn crying around Rath.

Never did I say you said the extra scenes were support conversations. I said you get the scenes through the conversations. "I only said that they required supports to view them." <--- That's exactly what I was saying.

Okay. But how does the fact that the extra scenes between Hector and Lyn require supports to view them means that Hector/Lyn is just as likely, or less likely, than Lyn/Rath? That’s like saying that a predestined pairing in FE4 is less likely to happen than another pair because a conversation or two between the characters in the predestined pairing in question need to be married to each other to see them. For example, I’m pretty sure there’s no one that agrees with the notion that Claude/Ayra is more likely to happen than Lex/Ayra.

I'll say it again: The only reason Hector and Lyn get scenes and such like that is because they are both Lords.

If that really were the reason, I doubt I.S. would have even put the effort into including them in the first place, and could instead have focused the effort elsewhere. I mean, look at Lewyn, Fury, Sumia, and Lilina. Neither of them are Lords. Yet, in Lewyn’s and Fury’s case, they get more interaction with each other than they do with their other pairs, on top of the conversation Lewyn gets with Ced (where the latter explicitly calls the former “father”) among other things. Roy is the only one in FE6 that gets paired endings. But out of all of his potential wives, he gets an altered Epilogue with Lilina. And there is the fact that Sumia's shown holding Lucina in FE13’s opening, and she does get a Ch 11 confession scene that’s vastly different than any other that plays when Chrom isn’t married by then. How are you going to tell me that “the only reason that Hector and Lyn get extra scenes is because they’re Lords” when stuff like that exists in the series even outside of Lord/Lord pairings?

Those scenes and the song do not in any way, shape, or form invalidate Rath/Lyn or make Hector/Lyn more "canonical" or "probable."

I’m aware that they don’t “invalidate” Lyn/Rath. But saying that neither the extra scenes that Hector/Lyn get, or the fact that Respite in Battle requires Hector/Lyn to be formed in order to view it, is like saying that the fact that the FE13 opening explicitly shows Sumia holding a baby Lucina, and the fact that Sumia gets a Chapter 11 confession scene with Chrom that features battle models and has Sumia embracing Chrom, both don’t make Chrom/Sumia more likely than Chrom/Sully, Chrom/Mariabelle, or even Chrom/Olivia. Interpret that how you will.

And to say Lyn is the only girl to comfort Hector from his pain of losing Uther is ludicrous! Of course Florina would comfort him! As would Farina! Any wife would.

Except where, in any interaction Florina or Farina have ever been in, period, is Uther even brought up? Hector’s interactions with Florina are only limited to Noble Lady of Caelin,supports, and the Epilogue. Hector’s interactions with Farina are only limited to Crazed Beast, supports, and the Epilogue. Just where is Uther mentioned in any of them?

If you go with Eliwood/Lyn, then that relationship gets more buildup.

Not as a romantic pairing. Especially considering that the admiration that Lyn shows Eliwood in Battle Preparations, should they have an A support, is ignored by their later conversation in the Hector’s Story version of the Endgame.

If you go with Rath/Lyn, then that relationship gets more buildup.

They don’t get much build-up in the game outside of supports. Again, literlly, all their interactions outside of supports are situated in "Blood of Pride" and "Kinship's Bond". That's not much to go on for a romantic relationship.

Rath is the only one Lyn ever seems to have even the slightest attraction to.

Key word: Seems. Which makes this subjective.

Everything she says to Eliwood and Hector are just friend-friend things, not romantic-friend things.

Would you seriously say “Your… Your strength, I admire. Your kindness…I adore.” or “This…is your share…of tears… Don’t say…anything. Just, for a little while, let me lean on you. For a little while…” to anyone who is just simply a good friend? In the case of the latter, I know I wouldn’t.

Nowhere anywhere did I ever detect any sexual tension or romantic interest between any of the three lords.

Again. Hector’s “I can’t smack a woman I’ve lost my heart to.” That’s pretty much explicit romantic interest there. And romantic interest is the only reason I can think of as to why Lyn would act like she would when inquiring Eliwood about Uther, or when giving Hector his “share of tears”.

The point I was getting at was that they outright stated they intended Azel/Tiltyu to be canon.

They intended that Azel/Tiltyu was supposed to be one of the pairs that determines which “route” the player goes on. Nowhere did I get an impression that I.S. intended for it to be canonical in that.

No, my whole argument stems from the fact that Rath/Lyn is just as heavily implied as Hector/Lyn. It (Rath/Lyn) is favored just as much by the game itself as Hector/Lyn.

The fact that Rath/Lyn gets less screentime than Hector/Lyn seems to suggest otherwise.

So I'll say it this way: FE2 does not equal FE7. If they all worked the same way, Ike/Elincia would totally be canon.

I know they all don’t work the same way. Which is why I listed Ike/Elincia as an exception to the whole “more interactions = more likely to happen” thing earlier.

They seemed pretty sexually tense to me. Rath is very clearly trying to hide all feelings and emotions.

That’s because he’s not good with people. He’s been living by himself for most of his life. Of course he would try to hide his feelings and emotions. As a result, he’s not enthusiastic with about conversing with comrades-in-arms. That isn’t something I’d equate to sexual tension.

Nabata, and Bern...that didn't seem at all like flirting, not even one little bit.

The fact that Hector explicitly calls Lyn a show-off after she says that she’s going to leave him behind if he can’t keep up is a clear indicator that the two were playing around to some extent. And then there’s this exchange regarding the two of them being separated from Eliwood.

Hector: Hey, Lyn! Will you stop!? We’re leaving Eliwood behind!

Lyn: So? We don’t want to be in the way, do we?

Hector: Huh? In the way?

Lyn: …Teeheehee… You mean to tell me you don’t see it?

In this case, Lyn’s obviously referring to the fact that Eliwood and Ninian have a thing for each other, and is giggling at the fact that Hector’s oblivious to it.

Don't try to pit your experience with the game against mine. Frankly, it's just insulting, and rather pompous of you.

You were doing the same exact thing not too long ago. Especially with the way you said “I just finished playing this game again a couple of weeks ago”.

And I never said both characters gave a love-line, all I said was that every paired support has a love-line!

And what I did in response was look through the script again to see if it was true or not. It was only true for about 36% of the pairs that both resulted in a paired ending, and didn’t involve a pairing that’s either explicitly canonical or both characters being either the same gender or siblings. That’s all I’m saying here.

And EVERY ending clearly shows that the paired characters love each other, so to say any is "one-sided" is just not true.

Paired endings often fall prey to the “Ships that Pass in the night” (when two characters who are canonically casual acquaintances at best get hooked up with each other) and “Strangled by the Red String” (when two characters end up with each other with no proper set-up whatsoever) tropes. I omitted what the paired endings say about two characters loving each other for that very reason. Especially since stuff like Rebecca hating Sain even in the A support, and Matthew/Erk/Oswin finding Serra intolerable still exists. I only bring up a paired ending if there’s some consistency between the paired ending, and the interactions with the characters involved.

If I.S. were to officially make a pairing canon, make an official statement saying "such-and-such is canon," etc. etc., then it is ridiculously unlikely that they'd make any parent-character wind up with "random villager."

Note that I never once said “every parent character” would wind up with a villager. But if one pair involving named characters and results in a child is indeed canon, and it happens to lock another parent character out of getting together with someone named, it’s possible.

Hector did not help Lyn in Caelin because of romance or any form of affection. He went to Caelin with Eliwood because they were pursuing Marquess Laus. Why on earth would this count for anything for Hector?

Point taken.

If anything, Florina built more rapport with Hector than Lyn in that chapter.

Trying to muster up the courage just to say “thank you for involuntarily acting like a landing pad for me” doesn’t really seem like that. This is not helped by the fact that their supports literally revolve around Florina trying to do so, or by the fact that their interactions abruptly end when she finally does say “thank you”.

You can say that the scene was just meant for humor, but more importantly, there was no scene or even any feelings between Hector and Lyn by that point.

And this matters, why? Not many other pairs in the series have instances where the two characters have feelings for each other from the moment they enter the C Support. Literally, most C supports in FE13 are between two characters who are speaking with each other for the first time.

If you're referring to Night of Farewells, I'm pretty sure he helped Lyn because, well, she was standing on a platform that was about to sink.

And immediately afterwards, Hector asks Lyn about her well-being then and there. It’s Lyn’s reaction to the fact that Hector asked her about her well-being that gets my attention in this.

Lyn: Hector... Why are you being so nice all of a sudden? Are you feeling OK?

Especially since it would line up with the notion that Hector’s gotten a crush on Lyn by then.

On the other hand, Rath saved Lyn specifically because she was Sacaen. Lyn appreciated what Hector did, but Hector's actions were what any friend would do for someone, while Rath's actions were specifically because of who Lyn is.

Which would also be what any friend would do for someone.

Simply having more scenes because of lord status doesn't make something more likely. And, yes, it is entirely because of lord status that Lyn and Hector have extra scenes with each other. Lords cannot die or fail to be recruited, therefore Lords will have more scenes and/or higher importance with other Lords than non-lords.

You’re the only other person that thinks that Lord status is the primary factor in this, when such status has nothing to do with why Hector has more scenes with Lyn than Rath does. If that were the case, then Lewyn wouldn’t have gotten as many scenes with Fury as he did in FE4, Sumia wouldn’t have been shown holding Lucina in FE13’s opening nor would she get a Ch 11 confession scene that’s vastly different than any other that plays when Chrom isn’t married by then, and the Roy/Lilina A support wouldn’t have affected FE6’s Epilogue by even one bit.

There is no debate around this whatsoever.

And there is no debate around the fact that most couples in the FE series get more scenes than others often get those scenes due to I.S. trying to imply that they’re canonical, despite the player’s input.

Hector losing his entire family doesn't automatically mean that Lyn is going to stay with him. Such an argument doesn't even make sense, because Florina and Farina also would stay with him.

Again, where, in any interaction Florina or Farina have ever been in, period, is Uther even brought up? Bringing up Hector/Farina as an example, no such mention is given when Mark is absent.

Farina: Lord Hector… Hm? Is that you, Lord Eliwood? Wah! It’s been such a very long time!

Eliwood: Nice to see you again, Farina. We didn’t have too many chances to talk during our journey, but…

Farina: That’s true.

Hector: Well, you’ll have plenty of opportunity from now on. Let me introduce you… This here’s the 20,000 gold woman.”

Eliwood: Huh?

Farina: Hold it! Are you still angry about that? That was a reasonable sum, and it included hazard pay!

Eliwood: Hm?

Uther sure as heck didn’t seem to be on Farina’s mind in that exchange.

And I’m not gonna bother bringing up dialogue from when Mark is present. Because aside from the smallest of changes, there’s no difference dialogue-wise in who Hector’s wife is in the Epilogue when Mark is present.

The housewife thing was not meant to be taken literally, but now that you've mentioned the other stuff, what exactly stops Hector's other supports from performing this role?

There’s the thing about Florina’s lack of self-confidence preventing her from speaking in front of crowds. And there’s also the thing about Farina showing great disdain for nobility in general even in her own supports with Hector. One of Eliwood’s paired endings also mention something about there being some protest from Lycian nobles about one of their own marrying a common mercenary. So I would imagine the same would apply to Hector.

You have given reasons why someone would want to be with Hector, but these are not reasons mutually exclusive to Lyn.

But at the same time, those reasons don’t seem to be at the forefront of either Florina’s or Farina’s minds in any of their interactions, let alone what interactions they have with Hector. Contrast that with Lyn, who decides to cry for Uther on Hector’s behalf because the latter can’t cry no matter how hard he tries to.

What meaningful similarities do Hector and Lyn have that Rath doesn't?

She did, for a time, act like there was no one better than her. Relying too much on her own strength, and caring little for about how anyone else thought about her. She even says in her Battle Preparations conversation with Hector that she sometimes felt like she was looking at a mirror of her younger self every time she looked at him.

I guess if you want to split hairs about something meaningless you could mention that Rath's father is still alive.

Implying that such a thing is meaningless in the first place. There’s also the fact that Hector and Lyn literally have no family left before either one of them marry at the end of FE7. Heck, one of the reasons why Hector didn’t want to see her cry was because of the fact that he could relate to her on a personal level, as he too lost his parents.

Lyn is a plainswoman at heart; this is backed up by all of her endings except Eli/Lyn and Hector/Lyn involving giving up Caelin.

However, she doesn’t even mention wanting to go back to the plains if she does happen to have an A support with either of Eliwood or Hector. And that’s not even getting into the fact that the Eliwood/Lyn Endgame assumes that the player has indeed formed an A support between Hector and Lyn, despite not requiring any supports to happen. Considering what happens directly afterward.

Rath absolutely has more similarities to Lyn than Hector does even if you ignore their backgrounds, which uh, are far more similar than Hector's.

The only similarities in their backgrounds that are there are that they were born in Sacae and that they’re the chief’s child in their own respective tribes. Aside from that, Rath was forced to leave his own tribe during childhood because of some prophecy one of his tribe’s fortune tellers came up with. Lyn was only forced to leave hers around 3 years shy of what would be considered the start of Adulthood in the modern age.

What part of Lilina shouts "Lyn" that doesn't shout Florina or Farina? Earlier you said it was subjective, so I'd like for you to show me what subjectively makes Lilina look like Lyn and not the other two.

What about the fact that Lilina’s name has the presence of the name “Lyn” in it? Or how about the fact that Lilina’s neither shy, androphobic, or rude? In regards to Lilina’s personality, I am talking about how she acts in FE6.

It isn't even about their physical looks. It's about the fact that Lilina's physical looks can easily be traced to be a mix of Hector and any of his three wives

Her hair color? She could have gotten it from Hector alone. Hands in a portrait mean nothing. Her frontal bangs, however, definitely brings Lyn to mind. As does her face.

while Sue's physical looks most definitely

Makes her look like a female version of Rath and nothing more.

So you mean to tell me that Rath is more likely to have said daughter with "random villager" for the sake of Lyn being with Hector?

Well, considering that Lyn/Hector is implied more to happen than Lyn/Rath is…

And before you even bring up the fact that Hector and Lyn are both Lords yet again, consider the fact that out of Eliwood’s potential wives, Eliwood’s canonically shown to be interested in Ninian. (And judging from one of the conversations posted above, even one of his own potential wives supports the notion of him and Ninian getting together.) And the fact that, out of Nino’s own potential spouses, only Jaffar’s the one shown to interact with her outside of supports. Neither Ninian, Nino, or Jaffar are Lord characters. And besides Hector/Lyn, Eliwood/Ninian’s a pairing that can, in the Sound Room, unlock a song that would go unheard otherwise. None of either of Eliwood’s, Hector’s, or Lyn’s other pairs can do that.

If that's how you want to ship your ideas, that's fine

This is less about me shipping things, and more about looking at things as objectively as possible.

I'm just letting you know that the only people that have children with "random villager" as their official significant other are people who were already married (Hawkeye) or people with no in-game pairings (Canas).

Tell me something I don’t know.

There is absolutely no logical reason to introduce a character's father and have one in-game option as her potential mother... and then not use said mother.

What about the possibility that said potential mother may not even be the canon mother? That sure seems like a valid reason to me. I think Lyn and Rath would have gotten more interaction in the game than they did if she was intended to be such all along. But as it stands, there’s no indication, aside from a paired ending (which could just as easily work with someone else besides Lyn), that suggests such an intention is the case. Not to mention, if I.S. were to make anything canonical, there’s even less of a logical reason to introduce two characters, give them so much of what TV Tropes calls “ship tease” with each other, and completely go against said “ship tease”. Especially since an outright confirmation is liable to cause s***storms, one way or another. For an example of such a thing happening, there is the fact that I.S. had it in mind that Nanna was supposed to be Beowulf’s daughter. Considering that most fans (at the time) hated Beowulf/Raquesis, they’ve been dancing around the subject of who Nanna’s father is, despite implying (at the least) that Delmud is Beowulf’s son.

There is in fact nothing that says Hector/Lyn is any more right than any other.

Nothing official? Okay. But in regards to what the game gives the players, I again ask why include that if Hector/Lyn’s not supposed to happen. Even people who don’t even agree with the pair know that it gets the largest implications towards happening than their other pairs.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Just call me AL

[Fire Emblem Fan]

But it doesn't make certain Lord pairs less viable than others. If a Lord's not getting shipped with a Pegasus Knight by the game itself (which no Lord in this game is), they're often shipped with either another Lord, or a major non-Lord character.

Well like I exactly said in my final point in my last post, nothing makes any pair less viable. And yes, I would say Hector was shipped with Florina by the game itself, just look at the scene where they first meet.

What about the fact that Hector/Lyn’s one of the only pairs that actually involves a love confession? Or that Lyn is the only one shown to do what Hector’s paired endings describe his wife to be doing? If those aren’t any indicators of romance, then I don’t know what is.

Love confessions weren't a thing until Awakening. Point invalid.

Lyn mode summary: Rath joins Lyn because she's a Sacaen woman. The end.

Hector's entire game summary: Hector helps Lyn because Eliwood. The end. All convo they have outside supports is just friend-friend. The end. "How is it not romantic?" Well you like to say "that's subjective!" so...that's subjective. Also the exact words are necessary, everything you say "how is this romantic exactly?" is completely invalidated unless you actually give the exact words they say. You can't say "this isn't romantic" and then change what they say and say "the exact words aren't needed."

Even if they weren’t Lords, Hector and Lyn would get the same amount of interaction as they do already.

That's subjective :)

Which, again, shouldn’t have any bearing on how implied certain pairs are in the series.

You keep saying it has ALL bearing against other pairings. Now that it isn't convenient to your argument, it isn't valid anymore? M'kay...

I don't recall a single scene in the game, outside of supports, that shows Lyn crying around Rath.

And? Just because she cries around one person and not around another..."it shouldn't have any bearing on how implied certain pairs are in the series." As you so like to say.

Okay. But how does the fact that the extra scenes between Hector and Lyn require supports to view them means that Hector/Lyn is just as likely, or less likely, than Lyn/Rath? That’s like saying that a predestined pairing in FE4 is less likely to happen than another pair because a conversation or two between the characters in the predestined pairing in question need to be married to each other to see them. For example, I’m pretty sure there’s no one that agrees with the notion that Claude/Ayra is more likely to happen than Lex/Ayra.

Well again...I. Didn't. Say. That. In fact, I said the exact opposite. Again. Which you keep ignoring. I'll say it again: Like I said in my last post, nothing makes any pairing more valid or less valid than another pairing. Rath/Lyn is just as likely as Hector/Lyn. Which I've said multiple times, which you keep ignoring. And ignoring. And ignoring.

If that really were the reason, I doubt I.S. would have even put the effort into including them in the first place, and could instead have focused the effort elsewhere. I mean, look at Lewyn, Fury, Sumia, and Lilina. Neither of them are Lords. Yet, in Lewyn’s and Fury’s case, they get more interaction with each other than they do with their other pairs, on top of the conversation Lewyn gets with Ced (where the latter explicitly calls the former “father”) among other things. Roy is the only one in FE6 that gets paired endings. But out of all of his potential wives, he gets an altered Epilogue with Lilina. And there is the fact that Sumia's shown holding Lucina in FE13’s opening, and she does get a Ch 11 confession scene that’s vastly different than any other that plays when Chrom isn’t married by then. How are you going to tell me that “the only reason that Hector and Lyn get extra scenes is because they’re Lords” when stuff like that exists in the series even outside of Lord/Lord pairings?

How am I going to tell you? Because it's true. Lords get special treatment, and any pairing involving two lords is likely to get that special treatment. This isn't just FE, this is gaming in general. Plus this is really one of the only FE games where the lords aren't related in some way. Because they're totally going to show Chrom marrying Lucina in the opening of Awakening and Lucina holding a baby.

I’m aware that they don’t “invalidate” Lyn/Rath. But saying that neither the extra scenes that Hector/Lyn get, or the fact that Respite in Battle requires Hector/Lyn to be formed in order to view it, is like saying that the fact that the FE13 opening explicitly shows Sumia holding a baby Lucina, and the fact that Sumia gets a Chapter 11 confession scene with Chrom that features battle models and has Sumia embracing Chrom, both don’t make Chrom/Sumia more likely than Chrom/Sully, Chrom/Mariabelle, or even Chrom/Olivia. Interpret that how you will.

Really? 'Cause you keep acting (and kinda stating with your own words) like they invalidate it.

Except where, in any interaction Florina or Farina have ever been in, period, is Uther even brought up? Hector’s interactions with Florina are only limited to Noble Lady of Caelin,supports, and the Epilogue. Hector’s interactions with Farina are only limited to Crazed Beast, supports, and the Epilogue. Just where is Uther mentioned in any of them?

Oh boy, Uther isn't mentioned! Doesn't meant they don't comfort Hector. And...when does Farina join, again?

Not as a romantic pairing. Especially considering that the admiration that Lyn shows Eliwood in Battle Preparations, should they have an A support, is ignored by their later conversation in the Hector’s Story version of the Endgame.

Yes as a romantic pairing. And that second part once again falls exactly in line with the "Lyn and Hector are just friends" line of reasoning...

They don’t get much build-up in the game outside of supports. Again, literlly, all their interactions outside of supports are situated in "Blood of Pride" and "Kinship's Bond". That's not much to go on for a romantic relationship.

They get the same kind of buildup as Hector/Lyn. To say they don't have much interaction is once again because Hector and Lyn are both lord characters. Very few non-lord characters get much in the game outside supports.

Key word: Seems. Which makes this subjective.

You keep using that word...subjective. I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Everything you've said (literally everything) is also incredibly subjective (as is everything I've said) yet you don't seem to get it.

Would you seriously say “Your… Your strength, I admire. Your kindness…I adore.” or “This…is your share…of tears… Don’t say…anything. Just, for a little while, let me lean on you. For a little while…” to anyone who is just simply a good friend? In the case of the latter, I know I wouldn’t.

Again. Hector’s “I can’t smack a woman I’ve lost my heart to.” That’s pretty much explicit romantic interest there. And romantic interest is the only reason I can think of as to why Lyn would act like she would when inquiring Eliwood about Uther, or when giving Hector his “share of tears”.

All of that is, once again, only through supports. And, once again, any man you pair her with will show some lovin'. Just because they don't all show it the same way doesn't mean it isn't there.

They intended that Azel/Tiltyu was supposed to be one of the pairs that determines which “route” the player goes on. Nowhere did I get an impression that I.S. intended for it to be canonical in that.

What? No, I'm not talking about I.S., I'm talking about the original dude who made the games. He had originally wanted Azel to have been turned into a statue, Tiltyu die, and then in the third part of the game that never made it in they'd both be resurrected and reunited with Arthur and Teeny. That's what I read, anyway.

The fact that Rath/Lyn gets less screentime than Hector/Lyn seems to suggest otherwise.

Um...no it doesn't. It really doesn't. Like I (repeatedly) said, the lords get more screentime. So that kind of argument is invalid. And aren't you the one who keeps saying "that shouldn't invalidate" and "that shouldn't affect how implied" why is that argument suddenly favorable to you?

I know they all don’t work the same way. Which is why I listed Ike/Elincia as an exception to the whole “more interactions = more likely to happen” thing earlier.

You keep seeming to say they do work the same, at least that's how I'm interpreting your words.

That’s because he’s not good with people. He’s been living by himself for most of his life. Of course he would try to hide his feelings and emotions. As a result, he’s not enthusiastic with about conversing with comrades-in-arms. That isn’t something I’d equate to sexual tension.

When it comes to Lyn, I'd say so. Everything he says screams "I'm attracted to you" and the same with her. ("That's subjective!" Yes it is, how I interpret it is highly subjective.)

The fact that Hector explicitly calls Lyn a show-off after she says that she’s going to leave him behind if he can’t keep up is a clear indicator that the two were playing around to some extent. And then there’s this exchange regarding the two of them being separated from Eliwood.

Yeah, literally everything said there screamed "friend-friend" to me, so. I play around with my friends all the time. I guess I'm supposed to be in love with all of my friends...since I play around with them.

You were doing the same exact thing not too long ago. Especially with the way you said “I just finished playing this game again a couple of weeks ago”.

Huh? No I wasn't. I was just saying I had just finished the game again, so the text is clear in my mind.

And before you even argue "Yes you were!" just note that I am dyslexic. The way I worded myself seemed completely fine to me. The way you normal people word things is weird to me, in fact the majority of what you're saying seems very weirdly worded to me.

And what I did in response was look through the script again to see if it was true or not. It was only true for about 36% of the pairs that both resulted in a paired ending, and didn’t involve a pairing that’s either explicitly canonical or both characters being either the same gender or siblings. That’s all I’m saying here.

That is just not true. Every pairing has a love-line from someone. How explicit it is is most definitely debatable, but every pairing has at least one love line. Even if only one of the characters shows the affection, it's there.

Paired endings often fall prey to the “Ships that Pass in the night” (when two characters who are canonically casual acquaintances at best get hooked up with each other) and “Strangled by the Red String” (when two characters end up with each other with no proper set-up whatsoever) tropes. I omitted what the paired endings say about two characters loving each other for that very reason. Especially since stuff like Rebecca hating Sain even in the A support, and Matthew/Erk/Oswin finding Serra intolerable still exists. I only bring up a paired ending if there’s some consistency between the paired ending, and the interactions with the characters involved.

It seems to me like you're saying exactly what I was saying...?

Note that I never once said “every parent character” would wind up with a villager. But if one pair involving named characters and results in a child is indeed canon, and it happens to lock another parent character out of getting together with someone named, it’s possible.

Note that I never once said you said "every parent character."

Sorry, but I still find it so ludicrously unlikely that I.S. would not use the only option for Rath and instead go with a random villager/person.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Fire Emblem Fan

[Sunwoo]

Little Al, nobody cares whether you think Hector/Lyn is canon and that their other options are "nonsensical". No one wants to read giant walls of text, especially if it's not a mafia game. And nobody should care about what anyone else thinks is canonical or not.

What is canon anyway? Why do we even throw that word around like it has any meaning? Why does it matter whether the pairings that we like are the ones the developers intended in a game like FE where you get a lot of leeway in who you ship with who? If the developers were to announce that "so-and-so pairing is canon", would all of you throw a big hissy fit if you didn't get your way? If not, then move on and don't get mired in pairing wars. Unless you're a troll.

I like Lyn/Rath and Hector/Florina just because I do. I don't care whether it's canon or not. As long as there are no contradictions between FE6 and FE7 with regard to these pairings, I can believe what I want until the day the developers release an official canon.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Sunwoo

[Shin]

The only true answers are their platonic supports with Wil and Serra. At least they've got some friends out of it!

[Sunwoo]

The only true answers are their platonic supports with Wil and Serra. At least they've got some friends out of it!

But what about Rath and Guy

[Fire Emblem Fan]

The only true answers are their platonic supports with Wil and Serra. At least they've got some friends out of it!

What about Wallace? :P

[Mark the Tactician]

I can believe what I want until the day the developers release an official canon.

I'll believe in Lyn/Rath and Hector/Florina even if it contradicts with whatever canon they throw out there.

[Captain Wesker]

Lyn x Rath because it grew on me when I started liking Rath more. And HectorxLyn. I dunno why, but I think it's cute.

[Balcerzak]

If you're referring to Night of Farewells, I'm pretty sure he helped Lyn because, well, she was standing on a platform that was about to sink. Hector would have done the same thing for anyone else. On the other hand, Rath saved Lyn specifically because she was Sacaen. Lyn appreciated what Hector did, but Hector's actions were what any friend would do for someone, while Rath's actions were specifically because of who Lyn is.

Why are you suggesting that Rath being a racist is a good thing?

[Brinzy]

I'm not suggesting that Rath is a racist to begin with. Rath said that he helped her because she was Sacaen. You can interpret that to mean he wouldn't help a non-Sacaen if you'd like, but it sure doesn't mean he thinks Sacaen people are superior to other races, which is absurd given the Sacaen are clearly treated as inferior. In this same chapter, Marquess Araphen declines to help Lyn because of her heritage, which is why Rath left Araphen to help Lyn.

Think about it this way: maybe Rath helped Lyn not just on a personal level, but because if Lyn was assassinated, Marquess Araphen may not have sought to capture the killer if he found out a Sacaen passed away.

Considering this a racist act would be akin to considering support groups for racial minorities to be racist - but said groups exist because of oppression from other groups, present and/or past. It would not be unsurprising to assume that two people part of the same marginalized group might look out for each other; neither would it make either of them a racist.

I am suggesting, however, that Rath decided to help Lyn because of her heritage (this is stated loosely) and this decision led to his fondness of Lyn. Hector helping Lyn was more helping a friend of a friend. That's the only point I was making there.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Brinzy

[ZemZem]

I actually ship Wil/Lyn. I should make a fic of it.

Hector can be Bowser.

[Sunsurge]

Idk. When I was a kid, I always shipped Lyn and Eliwood (I honestly really disliked Hector as a kid). Despite that, I just finished a replay of the game today (My 3DS broke!), and I didn't even REALIZE how much the game pushes Eliwood and Ninian and Lyn and Hector.

Despite my staunch opposition, I honestly do think Lyn and Hector are pushed as more 'canon' as the others. Eliwood notes about them a lot and they're ALWAYS going off together (even before I built supports). Lyn and Hector definitely interact more than Lyn and Eliwood--which was sad because my memory of the game as a kid was TOTALLY different and I don't know how I missed all of this).

EITHER way, I still like Lyn and Eliwood---but I don't like the idea of Lyn dying so soon, and so honestly, my headcanon is that she ends up with the tactician and the two go off together. (And I had a crush on Lyn as a kid---so there!) And also Rath was recruited so late and was so weak, that it was always frustrating to try to build supports with him and I didn't really care about him at all. Wil was cute--so I guess Lyn/Wil would be my second.

For Hector, his personality still irritates me, so personally I like the idea of him just ending up in some random political marriage/villager.

[Flamma]

Florina and Lyn, and Hector and Lyn. Just for the three way.