Dunal

Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn ReDux (v0.8.72 CH 2-2)

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What is the wolf gauge like? Yea I did notice giving him an energy drop allows him 1RKO some enemies at late game with wild heart.... So with even more stats and a decent gauge I can see him being reallllly strong with investment. Plus cards? oof I can only imagine.

 

Ilyana I think is in an okay spot. At times she feels weak but thats mainly when your fighting enemies your not supposed to with her (Like bishops). I think she needs some speed investment if she gets speed screwed so she doesn't get doubled. I feel like her worth will be more evident in part 3 where there are several more maps with draco knights. But yes Ilyana + Meg can deal with the bottom of 1-6 easily. 

Edited by Zihark72

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9 hours ago, Zihark72 said:

What is the wolf gauge like? Yea I did notice giving him an energy drop allows him 1RKO some enemies at late game with wild heart.... So with even more stats and a decent gauge I can see him being reallllly strong with investment. Plus cards? oof I can only imagine.

While shifted he gains 8 per turn and loses 4 per battle. Nailah's is arguably better (+15 per turn and -6 per battle) but both are really good. They aren't good gauges for low manning or soloing areas of the map (and you really want to avoid them taking ranged harass) but depending on the map you can keep them transformed indefinitely if you use them correctly. It's perfect for Volug since his part 3 maps are all very defend focused and choke-point heavy (and most enemies are 1 range) so he shouldn't need to fight too often each turn (and unlike the original game where he might need to pick up the slack, most of your units should be strong enough to enemy phase in his place if required).

10 hours ago, Zihark72 said:

Ilyana I think is in an okay spot. At times she feels weak but thats mainly when your fighting enemies your not supposed to with her (Like bishops). I think she needs some speed investment if she gets speed screwed so she doesn't get doubled. I feel like her worth will be more evident in part 3 where there are several more maps with draco knights. But yes Ilyana + Meg can deal with the bottom of 1-6 easily.

Well, with Bishops, she either has WTA or doesn't care much about Resire. With say, Leo/Fiona support (+5 DEF/RES) and pure water/barrier her weakness against magic can be negated quite a bit. Forge her a thunder tome as well (for stronger 1-2) and Sages/Bishops are easy for her to deal with. Strategists/Druids (and wind swords) are the only things she needs to avoid. Keep in mind that she can also have ~24 DEF by 1-E (again with supports).

But yeah in part 3 she has plenty of Dracos to kill in 3-2 and 3-4 and actual dragons in 3-3 and 3-8 (Laguz-heavy maps like 1-8). Her offensive stats are pretty low but that doesn't really matter when she has so many effective targets. Even if you don't train her that much and use her specifically for nuking certain enemies then she's more or less an auto-deploy in some maps. Only reason she isn't in late part 1 is because you have Tormod.

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Besides reuniting them all in the main post, consider putting the “ +-Xper turn, +-Y per battle” in the in-game UI description of each laguz class (if you can fit both transformee and untransformed behaviour in there).

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7 hours ago, Mr. Mister said:

Besides reuniting them all in the main post, consider putting the “ +-Xper turn, +-Y per battle” in the in-game UI description of each laguz class (if you can fit both transformee and untransformed behaviour in there).

He doesn't even need to fit those - transformed and untransformed laguz use different class descriptions.

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I so far added bonus stat retention to non-shifted Laguz (on their description) since those are based on class. However, since gauges work on an individual basis I cannot specify in class descriptions. I could possibly add those to the growths section in the base panel.

Also, I'm currently doing another pass on part 1/2 maps before I consider them completed. I was previously going to be making moderate changes to AI but I'm going to save those for the harder difficulty mode being done later on. Here the notable changes:

MAP CHANGES:

Spoiler

 

1-P: No changes.

1-1: Some very minor tweaks to have the map flow a bit better (for example, the mage fighter being changed).

1-2: Same as above (Boss's scroll no longer needed to be stolen for example, meaning Sothe can grab the chest without delaying a turn).

1-3: Moderate changes to enemy placement in order to better encourage the right route and/or divide your units. Sothe no longer needed to steal as much as well (including the boss so you can lure him on the right).

1-4: No changes.

1-5: A few of the Wyverns replaced with other enemies.

1-6: Minor adjustments to enemy placement/AI.

1-7: Moderate enemy changes (bonus objective is more difficult overall while the initial couple of turns are easier to deal with -- Elite enemies added)

1-8: A few changes to reinforcements and their spawn location (now only two enemy dragons instead of three for instance).

1-9: Some enemy changes (A few mage knights appearing where both Micaiah and the BK would have WTA). BK also receiving an update where Alondite is also a dark weapon (with Aura) instead of wind.

1-E: Now slightly less difficult overall (Jarod has one less authority star and some other enemy changes).

2-P: Open terrain (sky) now provides a -10 AVO penalty (rewarding terrain usage) and some enemies have been re-positioned.

2-1: Moderate changes to enemies and their placement/inventory (in terms of steals) to improve the flow of the map.

2-2: Minor changes to enemy placement and stealables.

 

Let me know if you have any additional feedback on some of the current map design that may not be part of these changes.

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Aww, I rather appreciated the boss’ scroll in 1-2 being steal-only - it forced you to have Sothe adjacent to him without the prepromotoe contributing to his death for at least an enemy phase, which was a cool incentive to optimize enemy clear order, and you had to think ahead if you wanted to LTC while also passing the longbow to Leo before the end of the map, as the latter is wound to end up helping Eddie stop the thieves from getting up the ledge.

 

Where did you put the elite enemies in 1-7? I assume the knight guarding the gate will be one of them, promoting to general, also serving to introduce the enemy generic generals’ skills?

 

Dark-based Alondite sounds dope AF; yeah, Ike will definitely want to use Ragnell (or is the latter still phys-based with internal type sword? Is there any internal weapon type in the game data that is mag-based while still outside all weapon triangles, like cards?)

Edited by Mr. Mister

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52 minutes ago, Mr. Mister said:

Aww, I rather appreciated the boss’ scroll in 1-2 being steal-only - it forced you to have Sothe adjacent to him without the prepromotoe contributing to his death for at least an enemy phase, which was a cool incentive to optimize enemy clear order, and you had to think ahead if you wanted to LTC while also passing the longbow to Leo before the end of the map, as the latter is wound to end up helping Eddie stop the thieves from getting up the ledge.

The idea is that you can now take the chest + kill boss + escape with Laura on the same turn without missing anything too important. Some people would be in a position where they would steal the red gem while being set up to kill the boss + end the map the turn after... but couldn't kill the boss if they wanted the scroll (or have the mend staff) so would end up with a dead turn with not much to do. Or this lets you get both on the same turn so you can swap the mend or other weapons the turn after, without also wasting a turn.

1 hour ago, Mr. Mister said:

Where did you put the elite enemies in 1-7? I assume the knight guarding the gate will be one of them, promoting to general, also serving to introduce the enemy generic generals’ skills?

One is at the gate and the other is at the eastern cell (which previously had no defence unless you consider the few enemies above the ledge). This makes it notably more difficult to free all the prisoner's before Levail can murder them.

1 hour ago, Mr. Mister said:

Dark-based Alondite sounds dope AF; yeah, Ike will definitely want to use Ragnell (or is the latter still phys-based with internal type sword? Is there any internal weapon type in the game data that is mag-based while still outside all weapon triangles, like cards?)

Ragnell is still physical. What it does mean though is that even if the BK is still weak to hammers, its effective damage would be calculated based on the weapon's MT being reduced by 6 (they now only do 8 bonus damage to him, acting the same as it were a silver axe). So now, the Ragnell is definitely stronger.

This means that I don't really need to remove his armor weakness. Cleave bows will still do a number on him, but I'll be changing those around in the two maps he's in (they'll be one in 1-E still but that's about it).

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Wait, WTA/D Mt addition/substraction takes place before the effectiveness multiplyer? I didn't know that.

You sure Alondark won't make it too hard to get BK killed in 1-9 by player negligence, unless two snipers get him?

 

Another thing: since the addition of laguz to 1-8 improves it so much, will/did you add any (generic) beorc to the enemy ranks in  3-FoW and 3-13? I know you already expanded map data for 3-13, but I don't knownif you added laguz sympathizers as well (still looking forward to the 3-13 Archer character arch).

Also, I've found the answer to my question myself - white dragon breath is a mag-based weapon type outside all triangles.

Edited by Mr. Mister

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21 hours ago, Dunal said:

1-8: A few changes to reinforcements and their spawn location (now only two enemy dragons instead of three for instance).

Has feedback been that three dragons made the map too difficult? I never had an issue with dealing with them given that they come one-by-one, you almost never face two at a time. You have enough tools at your disposals to take them down (and steal that red gem from dragon #3).

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On 07/09/2018 at 8:17 PM, Mr. Mister said:

You sure Alondark won't make it too hard to get BK killed in 1-9 by player negligence, unless two snipers get him?

I don't think that the BK should be in too much danger in that map to begin with. Protecting Micaiah is the main objective here (unless you spend 4K... which I'm debating on increasing further -- but best that it exists in case Micaiah is under-levelled).

On 07/09/2018 at 8:17 PM, Mr. Mister said:

Another thing: since the addition of laguz to 1-8 improves it so much, will/did you add any (generic) beorc to the enemy ranks in  3-FoW and 3-13?

Not for 3-6, but enemy hawks will now exist and you'll begin at the centre of the map surrounded on all sides. In 3-13 they'll be some Crimean troops added to the mix.

On 08/09/2018 at 11:57 AM, Aetherio said:

Has feedback been that three dragons made the map too difficult? I never had an issue with dealing with them given that they come one-by-one, you almost never face two at a time. You have enough tools at your disposals to take them down (and steal that red gem from dragon #3).

It's mostly that the second dragon you fight appears almost immediately after the first, meaning that player phasing the first one will often leave you exposed to the second. I'm fine with the dragons being super powerful but they mostly exist on this map to teach the player how to deal with them later on. The second dragon also disrupts the flow of the map and halts progression for the most part -- it usually forces you to play defensive rather than advance closer to the boss early on.

 

It's worth mentioning that BEXP amounts are being overhauled in the next release to better reward low turn counts and bonus objectives (while overall reducing the default BEXP for simply clearing a map). Overall it's a slight net gain of BEXP if you get a decent turn count on each map, but a fairly moderate boost if you clear fast and meet objectives, especially on maps where you're likely to be missing out on combat EXP to do so.

For example, in 1-P a turn 6 clear is 130 total BEXP, a turn 7-8 clear is 70 BEXP, and only 30 after turn 8. Meanwhile, in 1-8, you now get 750 BEXP per prisoner that survives, but only 500 for clearing the map itself. And while you can get up to another 1200 based on turn count (which is still an increase from the original), this map has less emphasis on turns compared to protecting the prisoners.

Overall it's an increase to BEXP for 2 out of the 3 armies (for most players) which will impact difficulty/scaling, but that will be accounted for. With that said, the Greil Mercenaries are going to have to work really hard for their BEXP since their overall (potential) BEXP per map is quite a bit lower now and their turn counts are stricter. 

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Seems I tend towards a turn 7-ish clear for 1P (at least that's what I got in my streamed playthrough) I'll try to go for turn 6 next time (if I remember).

I definitely appreciate an increased incentive to fast clear, really adds a level of tensity when you know you can't just slow-play your way through the whole game without consequences, also I'm a big fan of bonus conditions, it wasn't even close to worth it but I worked my but off and got that pacifism clear in chapter 15 of PoR, you could say the personal gratification was reward enough but it's also nice to actually get a sizable reward from the game that's incentivizing you.

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Yeah, BEXP rewards should also be added to the list of things to list in the OP/readme.

What's the max turns for highest BEXP in 1-E? 13? IIRC that's the lowest I got in the latest public build while still grabbing all chest and stealable items, without BK nor Tormod.

Edited by Mr. Mister

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34 minutes ago, Mr. Mister said:

What's the max turns for highest BEXP in 1-E? 13? IIRC that's the lowest I got in the latest public build while still grabbing all chest and stealable items, without BK nor Tormod.

1-F Turn 13 14-15 16+
Amount 12000 8000 5000

Yep, it's 13. Needless to say that it's a lot of BEXP going into part 3 (enough to give all your core units a couple levels or completely revive a few units from the bench) but does make efficiency important and nice for the DB where everyone gets free deployment.

Of course, some maps do not have a turn count bonus. 2-E for instance gives a flat 10000 since the incentive is maximising combat EXP and loot during that map -- there's no penalty for not killing Ludveck. That BEXP then specifically goes to the Crimean Knights in 3-9 and helps out their level curve. Meanwhile, the Mercenaries are much more reliant on combat EXP to scale, which makes sense given their availability. They get almost no BEXP if you don't clear reasonably fast (while say, the DB still get 5K in 1-E no matter what, which is far more kind towards them).

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Holy Meg on a peg, that's a reward allright. Knowing this will lead players to reconsider mid-battle wether to forgo routing the enemy in seize/escape/bosskill chapters, if they feel they aren't up to the task of doing so in time.

 

Regarding the buyable stillness: while using it in 1-9 is indeed for clutchy cahias (or for lv20 ones who don't want to waste weapon uses), acquiring it is important if you plan to tackly 1-E very aggresibly.

Edited by Mr. Mister

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On 9/7/2018 at 9:26 AM, Dunal said:

MAP CHANGES:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1-P: No changes.

1-1: Some very minor tweaks to have the map flow a bit better (for example, the mage fighter being changed).

1-2: Same as above (Boss's scroll no longer needed to be stolen for example, meaning Sothe can grab the chest without delaying a turn).

1-3: Moderate changes to enemy placement in order to better encourage the right route and/or divide your units. Sothe no longer needed to steal as much as well (including the boss so you can lure him on the right).

1-4: No changes.

1-5: A few of the Wyverns replaced with other enemies.

1-6: Minor adjustments to enemy placement/AI.

1-7: Moderate enemy changes (bonus objective is more difficult overall while the initial couple of turns are easier to deal with -- Elite enemies added)

1-8: A few changes to reinforcements and their spawn location (now only two enemy dragons instead of three for instance).

1-9: Some enemy changes (A few mage knights appearing where both Micaiah and the BK would have WTA). BK also receiving an update where Alondite is also a dark weapon (with Aura) instead of wind.

1-E: Now slightly less difficult overall (Jarod has one less authority star and some other enemy changes).

2-P: Open terrain (sky) now provides a -10 AVO penalty (rewarding terrain usage) and some enemies have been re-positioned.

2-1: Moderate changes to enemies and their placement/inventory (in terms of steals) to improve the flow of the map.

2-2: Minor changes to enemy placement and stealables.

 

Let me know if you have any additional feedback on some of the current map design that may not be part of these changes.

Changes look good on paper, will need to actually play them to see how they feel but I think you targeted the right areas that might have slowed/halted the general flow of the map. Especially if your encouraging the player to do clear withing a reasonable time with the new BEXP.

Edited by Zihark72

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On 9/7/2018 at 9:26 AM, Dunal said:

MAP CHANGES:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1-P: No changes.

1-1: Some very minor tweaks to have the map flow a bit better (for example, the mage fighter being changed).

1-2: Same as above (Boss's scroll no longer needed to be stolen for example, meaning Sothe can grab the chest without delaying a turn).

1-3: Moderate changes to enemy placement in order to better encourage the right route and/or divide your units. Sothe no longer needed to steal as much as well (including the boss so you can lure him on the right).

1-4: No changes.

1-5: A few of the Wyverns replaced with other enemies.

1-6: Minor adjustments to enemy placement/AI.

1-7: Moderate enemy changes (bonus objective is more difficult overall while the initial couple of turns are easier to deal with -- Elite enemies added)

1-8: A few changes to reinforcements and their spawn location (now only two enemy dragons instead of three for instance).

1-9: Some enemy changes (A few mage knights appearing where both Micaiah and the BK would have WTA). BK also receiving an update where Alondite is also a dark weapon (with Aura) instead of wind.

1-E: Now slightly less difficult overall (Jarod has one less authority star and some other enemy changes).

2-P: Open terrain (sky) now provides a -10 AVO penalty (rewarding terrain usage) and some enemies have been re-positioned.

2-1: Moderate changes to enemies and their placement/inventory (in terms of steals) to improve the flow of the map.

2-2: Minor changes to enemy placement and stealables.

 

Let me know if you have any additional feedback on some of the current map design that may not be part of these changes.

Played 6-1 again recently on stream, feels a bit obnoxious with the reinforcement spam, I remember feeling this way last time too, for like 3-4 turns in a row you're like 1 enemy away from routing the map and then a bunch of reinforcements show up on enemy phase to make the map take longer (doesn't help that most of them are peg-knighs so even if you did have the man power to deal with all of them you might not have the reach [Jill + Longbow Leo only goes so far] and on one turn 3 peg-knights spawn all at once so there's literally zero chance for you to clear the map on that turn) it starts to feel kinda shitty after the 2nd or 3rd time and you just want the map to be over already.

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2 hours ago, Renigade said:

Played 6-1 again recently on stream, feels a bit obnoxious with the reinforcement spam, I remember feeling this way last time too, for like 3-4 turns in a row you're like 1 enemy away from routing the map and then a bunch of reinforcements show up on enemy phase to make the map take longer (doesn't help that most of them are peg-knighs so even if you did have the man power to deal with all of them you might not have the reach [Jill + Longbow Leo only goes so far] and on one turn 3 peg-knights spawn all at once so there's literally zero chance for you to clear the map on that turn) it starts to feel kinda shitty after the 2nd or 3rd time and you just want the map to be over already.

That's kind of the point of the map and those reinforcements though, isn't it? To make you feel constantly ambushed and tire you out.

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In 1-6-1 are are certainly ways to clear out all enemies before all spawn, and in the next update there's a BEXP incentive to do so. If the Wyverns spawn first, then you can enemy phase with Ilyana and then end the map before more enemies have a chance to appear. Same with the Peg Knights with Bowgun!Nolan.

However, the Falcon Knight now spawns with a droppable Brave Lance (rather than that appearing later to purchase), so there is a reward/incentive for killing her now.  

Either way, if you are intentionally trying to clear the map as fast as possible, then it's not too difficult to do so before the last couple of groups appear (Turn 7). And if you do clear before they all spawn, you get an additional 2k extra BEXP (which is two free levels for Fiona or any other Tier 1). It may mean you miss out on the Brave Lance, but at least if you force the map to extend longer, there's some reward for it beyond just EXP.

Edited by Dunal

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Speaking of Brave Lances, will you change 3-10's green unit Geoffrey's backup weapon (a brave lance he magically produces and gets to keep if he had no usuable weapon in his inventory by the end of 3-9) to an iron lance or such?

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7 hours ago, Renigade said:

Played 6-1 again recently on stream, feels a bit obnoxious with the reinforcement spam, I remember feeling this way last time too, for like 3-4 turns in a row you're like 1 enemy away from routing the map and then a bunch of reinforcements show up on enemy phase to make the map take longer (doesn't help that most of them are peg-knighs so even if you did have the man power to deal with all of them you might not have the reach [Jill + Longbow Leo only goes so far] and on one turn 3 peg-knights spawn all at once so there's literally zero chance for you to clear the map on that turn) it starts to feel kinda shitty after the 2nd or 3rd time and you just want the map to be over already.

It can be a bit irritating at first but once you know the spawns it becomes easier to deal with. Nolan with the bowgun can solo a group of Pegasus knights if you keep everyone else out of range. Aran in a healing bush is also pretty effective. 

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2 hours ago, Zihark72 said:

It can be a bit irritating at first but once you know the spawns it becomes easier to deal with. Nolan with the bowgun can solo a group of Pegasus knights if you keep everyone else out of range. Aran in a healing bush is also pretty effective. 

If you need to know the spawns ahead of time for something to be fun than I'd say that's an obvious problem right there that needs fixing, whether or not this applies to 6-1 is debatable but conceptually I don't think anyone can argue that a map which needs you to know the spawns ahead of time to be fun is bad game design.

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46 minutes ago, Renigade said:

If you need to know the spawns ahead of time for something to be fun than I'd say that's an obvious problem right there that needs fixing, whether or not this applies to 6-1 is debatable but conceptually I don't think anyone can argue that a map which needs you to know the spawns ahead of time to be fun is bad game design.

The way you could look at it is this: If you clear all other enemies before they spawn, then either your units are strong enough already, or you're playing with enough knowledge/skill to not need the extra combat experience or loot that the extra spawns will give you. Keep in mind that the Falco Knight is the second promoted enemy you ever fight in the game -- so it's not really a filler enemy; more of the final challenge in the map (at least now that it has a Brave Lance). The intention is that a blind player will be interested enough in the Falco Knight when they appear, without it overwhelming them when you're still knee-deep in dealing with other enemies. And at worst, these enemies allow you comfortably funnel some extra CEXP in someone who may be lagging behind, possibly to have someone promote before the next map if you still have a master seal.

Meanwhile, on a repeat run, you'll know they're coming to either A) intentionally clear the map before they appear (involving more liberal use of Tauroneo/Sothe) or B) position units in a way to clear them instantly if they do, depending on if you want the combat EXP. Granted, the former had a lot less incentive before because you seldom got any reward out of it, since the BEXP amount is pitiful and only requires turn 10 no less (at which by that point all enemies can be killed anyway).

What I do agree with, is the over-abundance of late reinforcements in certain maps in say, Part 4. There's nothing to gain from them at that point when they can already last 10+ turns already.

I'll also confirm that in the later 'lunatic' version of the map, they will spawn earlier.

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The brave lance does sound like a really good idea, regardless I'll have to play the newer build before I can say whether or not it still gives me a burnt-out feeling, but overall the changes for the newer build do seem promising.

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1 hour ago, Renigade said:

If you need to know the spawns ahead of time for something to be fun than I'd say that's an obvious problem right there that needs fixing, whether or not this applies to 6-1 is debatable but conceptually I don't think anyone can argue that a map which needs you to know the spawns ahead of time to be fun is bad game design.

For the record, I didnt say it was necessary but like with any fire emblem game playing the game multiple times helps you figure things out for future runs. Endless reinforcements are never fun to deal with in fire emblem but as dunal said this can vary with your armies strength to clear before they spawn. And now we have an incentive to both clear sooner or wait for the reinforcements for a nice weapon.

Edited by Zihark72

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Actually FWIW I don't think endless reinforcements are always a bad thing, under the right circumstances they can actually be a really good thing, although a "route" map is generally never one of those circumstances.

Edited by Renigade

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