General Warriors Thread: Persona 5 Scramble

[Etrurian emperor]

I know quite a lot of people will be happy with Man Chong but I don't know enough of the guy to really know why or feel anything about his reveal as of yet. 

His outfit looks quite fabulous. When hearing the name Man Chong I always pictured a big hulky type. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Jedi]

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I know quite a lot of people will be happy with Man Chong but I don't know enough of the guy to really know why or feel anything about his reveal as of yet. 

His outfit looks quite fabulous. When hearing the name Man Chong I always pictured a big hulky type. 

He was a tactician of Cao Cao's, and was Cao Ren's key adviser during the Fan Castle siege. He is also generally credited with the creation of the tactical location of He Fei castle, and its defense (besides Zhang Liaos famous repelling of Wu years prior from the location). 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Jedi

[The DanMan]

Man Chong sounds like a prettier Cao Ren. Hopefully they can differentiate him, since Wei's also got two other tacticians now (Jia Xu and Xun Yu).

[Jedi]

6 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Man Chong sounds like a prettier Cao Ren. Hopefully they can differentiate him, since Wei's also got two other tacticians now (Jia Xu and Xun Yu).

Don't forget Sima Yi! Even if he did his own thing later. 

Wu currently has 4 playable tacticians too haha, Zhou Yu, Lu Su, Lu Meng, Lu Xun. Wondering if Lu Kang will ever get his chance to shine.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Jedi

[Azure Sen]

I'm meh on Man Chong. He's another one of those people whose notable contributions were mostly non-military in nature, and even his advice at Fancheng boiled down to "don't abandon Fancheng." Still, he's pretty low on the list of adds I'd consider wasteful or inappropriate unlike a certain Shu add.

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

Man Chong sounds like a prettier Cao Ren. Hopefully they can differentiate him, since Wei's also got two other tacticians now (Jia Xu and Xun Yu).

Guo Jia is saddened that you've forgotten him.

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

He is also generally credited with the creation of the tactical location of He Fei castle, and its defense (besides Zhang Liaos famous repelling of Wu years prior from the location). 

The Hefei Castle he had built was not the same one Zhang Liao defeated Sun Quan at, and in fact wasn't built until the reign of Cao Rui, a full decade after Liao died.

[Jedi]

5 hours ago, AzureSen said:

I'm meh on Man Chong. He's another one of those people whose notable contributions were mostly non-military in nature, and even his advice at Fancheng boiled down to "don't abandon Fancheng." Still, he's pretty low on the list of adds I'd consider wasteful or inappropriate unlike a certain Shu add.

Guo Jia is saddened that you've forgotten him.

The Hefei Castle he had built was not the same one Zhang Liao defeated Sun Quan at, and in fact wasn't built until the reign of Cao Rui, a full decade after Liao died.

Yeah I was just naming that the local was similar not that they were the same thing.

Also is there someone you'd actually want? Because all you've really done is complain so far.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Jedi

[Azure Sen]

56 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Yeah I was just naming that the local was similar not that they were the same thing.

Also is there someone you'd actually want? Because all you've really done is complain so far.

Sorry I've been a bit of a whiner. I think it's partially bad luck of the draw, since it's still early in the info reveals and I ended up being mostly satisfied with the additions Koei made in 8/XL/Empires once all of them were announced.

My own potential adds are usually based on who has the most potential to add something interesting the game, whether it because they had an interesting historical personality, have potentially interesting dynamics with the rest of the characters, had impressive military accomplishments that could add new stages or make existing stages more interesting, or any combination of those three. Since I'm pretty familiar with the history behind the series my choices also tend to skew towards that somewhat.

For Wei, I'd like Empress Bian, first and foremost. Koei's been doing a good job of humanizing Cao Cao as of late, and adding Empress Bian would further help with that. Not to mention that she has potential relationships to be explored with Cao Pi and Lady Zhen, and she would fit right into Cao Cao's early buildup of power, given that historically she prevented his early followers from abandoning him when he was presumed dead after his failed attempt on Dong Zhuo's life. Cao Zhen has a potentially interesting dynamic with Cao Cao, Cao Pi (being the former's adoptive son and the latter's adoptive brother, basically), Zhang He and Sima Yi and a lot of potential stages to participate in, including Hanzhong, campaigns against Sun Quan and Zhuge Liang's early Northern Campaigns. Otherwise 7, 8 and their expansions added most of my longstanding desired adds from Wei, and I haven't really given much thought to who else from Wei I'd like.

For Wu, I probably have the most adds aside from the Others section, and that's only because the Others encompasses so many separate factions. I don't have a primary pick from them, but that's just because I have so many. The brilliant but mad Zhu Huan, the flamboyant and showy He Qi, and the greedy team-killer Pan Zhang would all be good picks because they're all pretty interesting with a lot of material to draw from. Lu Dai would be a good late Wu general, having served Wu for somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 years confirmed (I say "confirmed" because Lu Dai doesn't show up in historical records until he's almost 60 for some reason), and having the potential to bring in more later era battles like fighting the Shi clan in Jiaozhou or dealing with the political intrigues of the later Wu court into the games. Speaking of later Wu political intrigue, Zhuge Ke would be a great add too, both because Wu needs more late period officers and because he could be an interesting case study in a genuinely brilliant person being corrupted by power, perhaps as a foil for Zhuge Liang. And of course Lady Wu, to complete the immediate Sun family ignoring Sun Yi, Sun Kuang and Sun Lang.

For Shu, my primary pick is Wang Ping, who started off in Wei under Xu Huang before defecting to Shu. He was involved in most of Shu's post-Hanzhong campaigns, and has the potential for his own unique stage in defending Hanzhong against Cao Shuang's forces. Zhang Yi (Bogong) and Liao Hua are both long-serving generals of Shu who were active during the post-Zhuge Liang era and could have an interesting dynamic with Jiang Wei, with Zhang Yi as the contrarian and Liao Hua as more of a mentor figure. Plus, Liao Hua's escape from Wu with his mother would make an interesting stage. I'd also semi-seriously like Chen Shou as a playable character, but that would probably end up veering into meta territory.

For Jin, I think I have the fewest new picks at one, if only because they have the misfortune of coming in so late and having less of a pool to draw from. Yang Hu I feel is the best choice, not only because of his potential relationships with fellow possible add Lu Kang (who I'd like to see added, just not as a priority like the rest) and Cai Wenji (who was his aunt) but because he's a potential rival for Zhong Hui (if one-sided, because Hu doesn't seem to have been historically aware of Hui's distrust of him) and in general had a really long and interesting career both on and off the battlefield. Plus Bu Chan's rebellion would be a possible late Wu and Jin battle, as there are few late era battles as is.

For the Others, I probably have the most wants, but that's just because it's such a wide-reaching category. For Lu Bu's group, Gao Shun would be my ideal add, both because could make a good foil for Zhang Liao and because he was a very talented general. For Dong Zhuo's group, Li Jue and Guo Si, who could then split off into their own faction, which could also include Xu Huang under a generic Yang Feng. For Yuan Shao's group, Shen Pei and Ju Shou, both for equal representation of the "attack Cao Cao" and "don't attack Cao Cao" camps at Guandu while also being notable generals. The Nanman and the Yellow Scarves are the only Other group who I don't feel need expanded on, since the former are pretty irrelevant outside of Shu and the latter show up early on and then generally never again. In terms of new Other factions, I'd like to see Gongsun Zan added, since he was historically close with Liu Bei and had an interesting if prolonged conflict with Yuan Shao. And finally, and this is 100% personal bias, but I'd like to see Yuan Shu added. He was a fascinating man, both cunning and incredibly stupid, and his involvement in the early years of each of the Three Kingdoms and Lu Bu would give Koei a ton of material to work with.

Also I went scouring The Scholars for some of my old DW posts and I found a post of yours from 2007 and I immediately felt ancient.

An interesting thing to note about Man Chong is that his design for 9 is pretty similar to the design Koei gave him for the digital card game Dynasty Warriors Blast. What this means for future adds is unseen, but most of the DW Blast designs aren't bad and I wouldn't mind seeing more like them in the games.

[Jedi]

Just now, AzureSen said:

Sorry I've been a bit of a whiner. I think it's partially bad luck of the draw, since it's still early in the info reveals and I ended up being mostly satisfied with the additions Koei made in 8/XL/Empires once all of them were announced.

My own potential adds are usually based on who has the most potential to add something interesting the game, whether it because they had an interesting historical personality, have potentially interesting dynamics with the rest of the characters, had impressive military accomplishments that could add new stages or make existing stages more interesting, or any combination of those three. Since I'm pretty familiar with the history behind the series my choices also tend to skew towards that somewhat.

For Wei, I'd like Empress Bian, first and foremost. Koei's been doing a good job of humanizing Cao Cao as of late, and adding Empress Bian would further help with that. Not to mention that she has potential relationships to be explored with Cao Pi and Lady Zhen, and she would fit right into Cao Cao's early buildup of power, given that historically she prevented his early followers from abandoning him when he was presumed dead after his failed attempt on Dong Zhuo's life. Cao Zhen has a potentially interesting dynamic with Cao Cao, Cao Pi (being the former's adoptive son and the latter's adoptive brother, basically), Zhang He and Sima Yi and a lot of potential stages to participate in, including Hanzhong, campaigns against Sun Quan and Zhuge Liang's early Northern Campaigns. Otherwise 7, 8 and their expansions added most of my longstanding desired adds from Wei, and I haven't really given much thought to who else from Wei I'd like.

For Wu, I probably have the most adds aside from the Others section, and that's only because the Others encompasses so many separate factions. I don't have a primary pick from them, but that's just because I have so many. The brilliant but mad Zhu Huan, the flamboyant and showy He Qi, and the greedy team-killer Pan Zhang would all be good picks because they're all pretty interesting with a lot of material to draw from. Lu Dai would be a good late Wu general, having served Wu for somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 years confirmed (I say "confirmed" because Lu Dai doesn't show up in historical records until he's almost 60 for some reason), and having the potential to bring in more later era battles like fighting the Shi clan in Jiaozhou or dealing with the political intrigues of the later Wu court into the games. Speaking of later Wu political intrigue, Zhuge Ke would be a great add too, both because Wu needs more late period officers and because he could be an interesting case study in a genuinely brilliant person being corrupted by power, perhaps as a foil for Zhuge Liang. And of course Lady Wu, to complete the immediate Sun family ignoring Sun Yi, Sun Kuang and Sun Lang.

For Shu, my primary pick is Wang Ping, who started off in Wei under Xu Huang before defecting to Shu. He was involved in most of Shu's post-Hanzhong campaigns, and has the potential for his own unique stage in defending Hanzhong against Cao Shuang's forces. Zhang Yi (Bogong) and Liao Hua are both long-serving generals of Shu who were active during the post-Zhuge Liang era and could have an interesting dynamic with Jiang Wei, with Zhang Yi as the contrarian and Liao Hua as more of a mentor figure. Plus, Liao Hua's escape from Wu with his mother would make an interesting stage. I'd also semi-seriously like Chen Shou as a playable character, but that would probably end up veering into meta territory.

For Jin, I think I have the fewest new picks at one, if only because they have the misfortune of coming in so late and having less of a pool to draw from. Yang Hu I feel is the best choice, not only because of his potential relationships with fellow possible add Lu Kang (who I'd like to see added, just not as a priority like the rest) and Cai Wenji (who was his aunt) but because he's a potential rival for Zhong Hui (if one-sided, because Hu doesn't seem to have been historically aware of Hui's distrust of him) and in general had a really long and interesting career both on and off the battlefield. Plus Bu Chan's rebellion would be a possible late Wu and Jin battle, as there are few late era battles as is.

For the Others, I probably have the most wants, but that's just because it's such a wide-reaching category. For Lu Bu's group, Gao Shun would be my ideal add, both because could make a good foil for Zhang Liao and because he was a very talented general. For Dong Zhuo's group, Li Jue and Guo Si, who could then split off into their own faction, which could also include Xu Huang under a generic Yang Feng. For Yuan Shao's group, Shen Pei and Ju Shou, both for equal representation of the "attack Cao Cao" and "don't attack Cao Cao" camps at Guandu while also being notable generals. The Nanman and the Yellow Scarves are the only Other group who I don't feel need expanded on, since the former are pretty irrelevant outside of Shu and the latter show up early on and then generally never again. In terms of new Other factions, I'd like to see Gongsun Zan added, since he was historically close with Liu Bei and had an interesting if prolonged conflict with Yuan Shao. And finally, and this is 100% personal bias, but I'd like to see Yuan Shu added. He was a fascinating man, both cunning and incredibly stupid, and his involvement in the early years of each of the Three Kingdoms and Lu Bu would give Koei a ton of material to work with.

Also I went scouring The Scholars for some of my old DW posts and I found a post of yours from 2007 and I immediately felt ancient.

An interesting thing to note about Man Chong is that his design for 9 is pretty similar to the design Koei gave him for the digital card game Dynasty Warriors Blast. What this means for future adds is unseen, but most of the DW Blast designs aren't bad and I wouldn't mind seeing more like them in the games.

I quite like some of your wants, Wang Ping in particular, even in RTK10 he was made to be a decently big deal. 

Also oh god Scholars, I was such a brat back then... 

[The DanMan]

Scans for SSX, Lu Xun, Lu Bu, Man Chong, and Zhou Can. Lu Xun's looking mighty fine.

[Jedi]

This is probably my favorite Lu Bu design since 5.

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Jedi said:

This is probably my favorite Lu Bu design since 5.

I'm quite happy with it too. The gold really suits Lu Bu. I wonder if the Dong Zhou faction in general will have gold on their armor. It would suit them.

Is it me or does Lu Xun looks a tad older this time around. 

[Azure Sen]

I've heard that DW9 is supposed to be toning down the costumes to make them more era-appropriate and less flashy (ironic since that's probably Lu Bu's most showy design yet), and if so they've succeeded with flying colors so far. I especially like the more military-like aesthetic of Lu Xun's new design, but these designs are all pretty great.

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Is it me or does Lu Xun looks a tad older this time around. 

They've been progressively aging him up since DW2, making him taller, making his cheeks less round and his eyes sharper, etc., or at least it seems that way to me, anyway.

[Jedi]

1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

I've heard that DW9 is supposed to be toning down the costumes to make them more era-appropriate and less flashy (ironic since that's probably Lu Bu's most showy design yet), and if so they've succeeded with flying colors so far. I especially like the more military-like aesthetic of Lu Xun's new design, but these designs are all pretty great.

They've been progressively aging him up since DW2, making him taller, making his cheeks less round and his eyes sharper, etc., or at least it seems that way to me, anyway.

It makes sense, although they're probably gonna keep some of the more fantastic of the RTK descriptions, such as Guan Yu's robe of course haha. 

Speaking of Guan Yu. 

 

[Jedi]

Sorry to double post again but we finally got more character designs shown 

@JSND The mustache is back.

Lots of designs seem to be harkening back to Dynasty Warriors 5

Edited July 20, 2017 by Jedi

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

28 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Sorry to double post again but we finally got more character designs shown 

@JSND The mustache is back.

Lots of designs seem to be harkening back to Dynasty Warriors 5

Except for Sun Quan lol(his old design is super awkward though so i don't mind this)

 

THE STACHE YES. Also helm Sun Jian is chosen over white hair Sun Jian is surprising

[Jedi]

2 minutes ago, JSND said:

Except for Sun Quan lol(his old design is super awkward though so i don't mind this)

 

THE STACHE YES. Also helm Sun Jian is chosen over white hair Sun Jian is surprising

True true haha. 

Also yeah i'm surprised myself, but I missed HELM Jian, Old Man Jian had his days, but its time to go back to the helmet. 

Full images of the designs now. 

 

 

 

[MediocreLee]

Yeeees Liu Bei's got his facial hair back. He always looked off without it.  And Diao Chan looks pretty as always.

[Tryhard]

makes me wonder if we'll be seeing older weapons too if the designs are throwbacks

maybe just because I'm not a big fan of the flail that Gan Ning has, among others.

though honestly I did like the new Sun Jian design over the old ones - the rest I really like

Edited July 20, 2017 by Tryhard

[Jedi]

8 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

makes me wonder if we'll be seeing older weapons too if the designs are throwbacks

maybe just because I'm not a big fan of the flail that Gan Ning has, among others.

though honestly I did like the new Sun Jian design over the old ones - the rest I really like

I wonder that myself, like if Ling Tong will take his Nunchucks back from Guan Suo haha. 

I do like Old Man Jian, but I guess I just have bias for a design thats more like his DW3 design since I started with that game.

[Magical CC]

Well, technically, Uncle Liu is not that much younger than Dad Sun so it's great. I still remember Mom Sun complained that it's wrong for Daughter Sun to marry someone who is nearly as old as her dad.

[Tryhard]

3 hours ago, Jedi said:

I do like Old Man Jian, but I guess I just have bias for a design thats more like his DW3 design since I started with that game.

I started with DW3 but the Helmet Jian design is still good. If anything, Sun Quan is the one that I felt has never had a good design. I also see why people think he looks like Lu Bu.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I'm liking these designs, they're a little more muted than DW7 & 8. Those tiger skins do add some wild pizzazz to Sun Quan, I wonder how'll they'll redesign his big bro. Make him even more powerful looking because he was more talented? Or tone him down because he isn't quite as present in the TK period because he died much earlier than his bro (and didn't sire the family like his father)?

Diaochan looks better showing less. The legs are still on full display (and I've heard from a China historian the Chinese traditionally like the legs) and she has plenty of cleavage with a little topside breast showing too, which clearly signifies her as being a beautiful mistress and a seducer. Yet, her design doesn't show so much as to come off as fanservicey now (her 8 design is nearly naked). She's no common cabaret concubine- she's a lady with some class, some grace and some maturity.

And I agree Liu Bei benefits from having mustache- it adds age, seriousness and competence to him. Stacheless looks a little... unsteady, insecure? Like less of man than his sworn brothers, tactician-minister, and Cao Cao?

 

And this is just a question for those out there who have read RoTK- but is there any particular rendition in English that is the best to read? I want to go through it, Suikoden, and Journey to the West some day, and I want to make sure I have good translations of the texts that flow well, don't mistranslate the content, and maintain the underlying spirit of it all.

[Azure Sen]

The designs continue to look fantastic. Cao Cao in particular I love, but I am 100% biased towards Cao Cao and Wei in general. The only one I'm not completely sold on is Diaochan's, not because it isn't a pretty great design, but because I don't think it fits her; I think a slightly more modest, elegant design would fit her better.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And this is just a question for those out there who have read RoTK- but is there any particular rendition in English that is the best to read? I want to go through it, Suikoden, and Journey to the West some day, and I want to make sure I have good translations of the texts that flow well, don't mistranslate the content, and maintain the underlying spirit of it all.

I'd suggest the four-volume Moss Roberts translation aka the one I own, since there are annotations explaining a lot of cultural and historical things like ranks and backstories for historical figures that might not be obvious to a first-time reader.

9 hours ago, Jedi said:

I wonder that myself, like if Ling Tong will take his Nunchucks back from Guan Suo haha. 

Ling Tong already took those back in 8 Empires because Guan Suo's EX weapon there was the sabatons.

Edited July 20, 2017 by AzureSen

[Jedi]

40 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

Ling Tong already took those back in 8 Empires because Guan Suo's EX weapon there was the sabatons.

Darn I actually forgot about that, thanks for the correction. 

Also I'm gonna piggyback and also recommend the Moss Roberts Translation.

[Etrurian emperor]

I wasn't expecting for them to age Liu Bei up again. It seems against their instincts considering how much their fanbase is devoted to prettyboys, though to be fair that's more an SW than DW thing I believe. I like it. Liu Bei never really impressed me through his looks and now he may actually do so.

I'm not sure how I feel about Sun Jian becoming a bit younger. I'm pretty sure he's supposed to be greyish.

Cao Cao looks great as always. 

I hope the Simas are getting revealed soon. They are my favorite family both in terms of character and relation to each other. I also like to see what kind of fabulous hat Sima Yi will get this time. 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Etrurian emperor