FE6 randomized draft

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/5peOh - Chapter 9 (7/74 turns)

Aka where I start losing mad turns to Gradivus due to no Dancer or Bard. RIP.

I might actually try to ferry Knight Lilina to recruit Gonzalez in the next map since he comes with a Flux and I really need every single one I can get for Roy given I can't buy any till Chapter 14.

EDIT: Thanks Gradivus for noting that its the pirate reinforcements that bug the game out on turn 4, not Geese!

Edited January 27, 2016 by Irysa

[TempestStorm]

The reason I suggested the dancer/bard rule is because you had people getting Ch1/2 dancers free and taking 3-4 turns clearing early maps while others (like me) had to trudge through the long way.

I updated with text, but don't have pics on my flash drive atm.

[Gradivus.]

Dancers don't inherently save more turns per map in earlygame than they do mid or late though. If player A gets much better turncounts than player B, and A has an early dancer whereas B doesn't, then chances are A's team also had more mobile units and/or better combatants. With the rest of their teams being identical, a dancer would tend to save around one turn per map (sometimes slightly more), so I don't think it's enough to warrant a special rule. In long(-ish) chapters like 8 and 8x, you're also reliant on the whole team.

[TempestStorm]

If I had an early dancer, my chapter 1 turn count would be halved, 2 is the same, save turns in 3, 4, 5, get chests in 6, 8 goes down a LOT, 8x goes down a ton (Alan can two turn the boss, 1 with a crit), save turns in 9, 10. Then Ray comes along halfway through 12 (more missed time). 11 isn't helped cause ballistae.

Oh and I skipped Warp cause Clarine and Yunno won't hit A staves. But having a crapton of ferries negates that.

[Gradivus.]

First, while I don't think it's productive to analyze a randomized metagame in a detailed way, your examples look shaky to me. All your double-digit earlygame turncounts are suboptimal by a notable amount, and C1 could have been 5 turns with your team by having Marcus rush through the land part and having him 2HKO Damas while Alan drops Roy on turn 4. It would've been 3 with a dancer. C2 would've been shaved from 4 turns to 3, nothing halved (halved is meaningless anyway, it doesn't say anything about the exact difference as a number).

I based my estimate (1 turn per map, potentially but not too often 2) on how my team's turns would change with an additional dancer (didn't confirm that on its accuracy):

C1: 0-1

C2: 1

C3: 1

C4: 0-1

C5: 0-1

C6: 1

C7: 0

C8: 1-2 (3, questionably)

C8x: 1

C9: 1

C10: 1

C11: 0-1

It looks like my estimate is fairly accurate or a bit conservative depending on the team in question, but it doesn't appear to be far from the truth.

Second, your main party's combat and mobility determines your turncounts more immediately than your amount of dancers does. You seem to have missed or ignored that point in my initial argument, but you and Irysa had fliers in C2, allowing for 4-turn clears, while I had to walk the long way to the throne with infantry units only, making me take 8 turns. In combat-heavy chapters like 4 and 7, having good combat units is a decisive factor and is likely to shave more turns than (or as many turns as) a dancer. 1-2 turns per chapter is more likely than you're suggesting, and it's probably only going to be significantly more if you a) have a whole bunch of mounts (like 3-4 minimum) in C8 or b) have notable trouble killing a boss.

Third, I think it's just better to go for a consistent rule that isn't reliant on the kind of estimate you're suggesting. Free dancers are significant turnshavers even if they're only there from C9 on, so forcing them to be drafted entirely sounds sensible, but saying "from C9 on, it's fine, but C8x and C8 are too much" seems pretty random and making that kind of clear cut would be interpreted as arbitrary. Thus, my suggestion would be either of those:

a) Keep the dancer rule as-is.

b) Force every dancer to be drafted.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Gradivus.

[TempestStorm]

I will admit I got boss, Roy and Marcus screwed. Chapter 1 was a case of needing to do it awkwardly so Alan gets exp he misses in 2, and I only 4 turned 2 cause Lot ohkod the boss (note how up until Clarine, Alan was my only reliable combat unit, as Marcus virtually died in use 4 chapters in). No ballista would have meant another 10+ turn chapter (Alan can't survive the enemies, and Roy really can't survive)

So yes, an early dancer would have cut my turns down a lot, mostly due to opening Alan ferries with combat by dropping/giving then moving more (heck having trouble with the Douglas gaiden for bad luck reasons)

Basically pos Roy + pos Marcus + uber bosses = failure without early dancing/healing

[Gradivus.]

So yes, an early dancer would have cut my turns down a lot

Well, your turns perhaps, but that argument falls flat in practice because it relies on your double-digit chapter turncounts that hardly anyone else gets because they don't play as suboptimally.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Gradivus.

[TempestStorm]

Well, your turns perhaps, but that argument falls flat in practice because it relies on your double-digit chapter turncounts that hardly anyone else gets because they don't play as suboptimally.

You try going through with a pos Roy, pos Marcus, and walls on thrones that Alan has to chip for the first 9 (not counting 9 itself) chapters. Once I got Clarine, turn counts started getting half decent.

But really you can't run the "you're not playing optimally" argument without running my file. The "optimal" strategies involve more rng rigging than Eclipse needed in her sadistic run because the file is that bad (and no, i wouldn't have saved a turn in 2 without immense rigging just for Alan to live if i had a refresher). The only way I can see myself saving turns in the long run would have been by picking Thany so she could replace Marcus instead of Zealot or Lot, but i didn't know i had so many walls on thrones or a need for an extra sword user so that's my mistake.

I suggested chapter 10 for a free dancer/bard because it's the normal point, for balancing purposes. That didn't mean they can't be drafted, it just meant somebody couldn't ignore a Bard Bors and go "oh he's free, don't need to worry". Only drafted would work too.

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/Fc05o - Chapter 10L (7/81 turns)

In which I use loopholes to get Lilina to where she needs to be. It's total BS that Geese's Brave Axe was turned into a fucking Poison Lance though, Marcus could have used that against the Wall in the next Chapter.

Slowed down for Gonzalez's Flux tome. Promoted Roy looks badass. Going to do 11L completionist, undrafted Peg Geese should come in handy again for helping with getting Klein to Tate.

EDIT: Wow Tate's stats are worse than I calculated them to be, I guess I fucked up drafting her? Do you need her to be alive to get to 20xI, or is it just Zealot and Juno?

Edited May 3, 2016 by Irysa

[Gradivus.]

Zealot and Juno only.

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/cZMJV - Chapter 11L (8/89 turns)

Slowed down for Tate to get an extra Elysian Whip, and because I can't drop Dieck over the wall lol. Shanna promoted, Fir is near promotion. Klein got me an extra Warp Staff. I'm hoping I can recruit Percival in 13 somehow (despite Knight Lalum) so I can have him use Warp to help in Chapters 14 and 14x.

also the game is probably over now lol.

http://imgur.com/a/Vy50f - Chapter 12 (7/96 turns)

I hate not having a dancer.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/6uCXY - Chapter 12x (6/102 turns)

Can't go any faster because, you guessed it, no dancer.

If I use undrafted Klein to Warp undrafted Knight Lalum to recruit Percival, does that break any rules? Conventional logic would imply that because undrafted units may freely interact with other undrafteds (including things like rescuing) as long as they don't fight, Warping an undrafted unit seems like it should be fine too?

Either way, I'm probably doing it, since it'll save turns in 14x and 15 (maybe 14) if I can have Percival Warp there.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Irysa

[Gradivus.]

If I use undrafted Klein to Warp undrafted Knight Lalum to recruit Percival, does that break any rules? Conventional logic would imply that because undrafted units may freely interact with other undrafteds (including things like rescuing) as long as they don't fight, Warping an undrafted unit seems like it should be fine too?

Yeah, it's fine.

[Irysa]

Awesome.

http://imgur.com/a/6KSpi - Chapter 13 (6/108 turns)

Percival get, in the min TC I could achieve with no Dancer and no Warp allowed on my main units. Tate promoted too, I'm overall very pleased with this clear.

EDIT: Image ordering was fucked, fixed it. Also fixed my TC.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/H18GG - Chapter 14 (3/111 turns)

3 Warps let me get the min TC and all the items, plus a Silver Card visit to the Vendor.

EDIT: Great, game is crashing in 14x at the first EP now...

EDIT2:

http://imgur.com/a/w13aL - Chapter 14x (2/113 turns)

Managed to get around the crashing.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/YJcJq - Chapter 15 (2/115 turns)

Fucking Zeiss spawned with a Ballista so combined with the fact I have no dancer it's basically impossible to get Miledy into range to talk to him without her being attacked. Even using Klein won't work since he only has 10 Warp range, so the only alternative would be ferrying Percival through the entire map so he could Warp her to Zeiss.

Any chance I can get a reduced penalty or something for this? I can clear in about 5 turns via Warp stuff (Percival Warps Shanna to the Sniper Chest room, then Warps Klein who Rescue Staffs Miledy, then Warps her to Zeiss) if Miledy can take a hit, but if I'm still going to be at 9~10 turns due to penalties I may as well just go slow. I could also Warp her onto a Wall tile so he can't reach her or something.

EDIT: Might have an idea to get around this...

Edited November 27, 2016 by Irysa

[Gradivus.]

You can halve the penalty to 2 turns, it's silly to be impeded like that because of a ballista.

[Irysa]

Its cool I realised Zealot doesn't have -1 personal con so he can rescue Miledy. I can have him Rescue Staffed by Klein with Miledy, Drop Miledy 1 tile out of range of Zeiss, then Warp her up 1 tile next turn with Zealot, then Klein trades for Warp to Warp Miledy in range.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/fUV2s - Chapter 16 (5/120 turns)

This one was pretty fun to do. I'm laughing at how much use I'm getting out of undrafted units without penalities. Using up so much many transportation staves in one map is also weirdly entertaining (5 Warps, 1 Rescue, lol)

EDIT:

http://imgur.com/a/XpPH5 - Chapter 16x (2/122 turns)

I wonder if I can close the gap on Gradivus at this rate, extra Warp pretty much counteracts my lack of dancers. Or maybe not, Ilia is a bit difficult to go superfast in.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/HFYyl - Chapter 17I (3/125 turns)

Druid Roy is extremely clutch.

Fuck me. Thank god Ray oneshots with a Killer Lance crit.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

I've cleared Chapter 18 in 3 turns (will post it properly later) but I'm kinda baffled at how the enemy Cavaliers suddenly shot up by like 4 speed in Chapter 19 despite only gaining 1 or 2 levels. Their other stats are in line for what I calculate they should be, but they should not under any circumstances be able to proc 13 speed (that's nearly Hard Mode tier). I tried to dig around in nightmare to see if something had been changed but wasn't really able to properly figure it out. I'll have to give Roy the speedwings to enable the C19 3 turn unless I figure out what's causing this (going to drop him on the fort so he needs to ORKO some of the Cavs to have a clear path, 13 AS would have been enough to double all the Cavs).

Checked with a vanilla rom on this Chapter and the Cavs have the correct speed values, definitely a randomiser bug of some kind.

EDIT: Found it, I guess this just ended up being the only "generic" character slot that the randomiser buffed speed for, so I'd not noticed until now? I didn't realise the randomiser would buff generic enemy bases at all lol, I guess I'll just leave it as it is.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

http://imgur.com/a/WQaod - Chapter 18I (3/128 turns)

http://imgur.com/a/NXxPW - Chapter 19I (3/131 turns)

Pretty sure I can 2 turn Chapter 20, which will put me at 2 turns behind Gradivus. I think if I staff grind Alan in the 20 free turns I get for 20x I'll have double Warp and may be able to 4 turn 21, and should be able to get 4 or 5 turns for 22, so I'll break even by then assuming I can match everything else (although 2 turning 23 looks...kinda impossible).

EDIT: Why does the randomiser give Yuno a weapon...now she gets targeted by Sleep on Turn 1 which seriously complicates things.

http://imgur.com/a/VqGbV - Chapter 20I (2/133 turns)

Druid Roy is so clutch, it's unbelievable. Time to slog my way through 20x.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

4 Turned 21 and 2 turned 21x (will post later) but the game is crashing on me at Roy's promotion event. Any ideas? I'd previously edited Druid (M) to promote to Druid (M), so I changed it back to Shaman and it didn't help, same with the "already promoted" flag.

EDIT: Fixed it, codebreakered him to Lord before he seizes, then seized and the event played out. I'll just hack him back afterwards.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

I'll edit the complete uploads in later, but I've finished, woo!

Chapter 20x (20 free turns/133) - Grinded Ray to D Swords, Alan to A Staves, Niime to S Anima, Tate to S Axes and Fir to S Lances via boss/enemy healer abuse. Yay for Tick staying a General I guess. Percival ate the energy ring, Niime used an Angelic Robe. Stats.

Chapter 21 (4/137) - Sold a lot of crap (could have sold more in retrospect). Falcoknight Yodel joined the team. Fir rescued Percival and got Warped by Alan. Ray took Roy forward.Alan warped Ray on Turn 2, Niime Hammerne'd Warp, Fir dropped Percival in one of the forests near the secret shop, Ray gave Roy to Percival and they sat in a line that prevented them getting swarmed. Elen sent the Knight Crest to the convoy, then Merlinus sold it, and Yodel rescued her out of harms way. Turn 3 Fir got the secret shop and bought 31 Boots, Percival gave Roy to Ray and warped them to Murdock (was a General with way better stats). Everyone else (Dieck, Alan, Niime, Yodel, Shanna) ate Boots on the last 2 turns, Roy Nostanked the Horseslayer Knights whilst Ray managed to get Murdock down with the Armorslayer. Fir with a Silver Lance could avoid getting surrounded from reinforcements and flew to Percival (also nostanked his survival) so they could both use boots on the last turn.

Chapter 21x (2/139) - Elen flew up and torched to reveal the way, double warped Roy on turn 1 so he could reach the throne on turn 2 with a boots use (he's not 2HKO'd by the Brave Sword Hero and the Druids don't move), Warped Dieck to kill the boss on Turn 2 with Alan so Ray could use both turns for boots. Shanna also used both turns for Boots (she has 15 mov now), everyone else just ate 1.

Chapter 22 (4/143) - On the right hand side, Dieck and Niime went for the switch whilst Percival, Ray, Shanna, Yodel and Fir headed for the throne room. On the left, Alan is there to Warp Elen carrying Tate to the switch. Via rescuedropping him forward with Fir and Yodel whilst he ate boots, Percival is able to rescue staff Roy on turn 3 after Tate Armads crit the Brave Sword Hero and Dieck Killing Edge crit the Brave Axe Hero. Niime got the Dracoshield and Wyrmslayer during this time, and Elen got the Sleep Staff. Roy had used boots both turns prior then used boots again in front of the door with Nos equipped. Shanna and Ray teamed up with safe ranged chip to get the Fenrir druid whilst Yodel and Fir teamed up on the Berserker, meaning on the last turn the Knight could be brave lanced out the way for Percival to Warp Roy to the throne, despite being blocked by the two heroes (fortunately he can survive with the Nostank). Ray had to double killer lance crit Zephiel followed by Shanna double Murgleis chip at 3 damage to kill. At this point, I have 1 boots left to use on Roy, Ray and Shanna have 15 move whilst everyone else has 14. Dieck used the Dracoshield on the last turn.

Chapter 23 (2/145) - Sold more junk. Niime killed the nearby Manakete with Forblaze and Yodel killed the Druid. Double warped Dieck so he could get near the throne and hide his ass in the forest, activating all the enemies to move out of the way. oy used boots turn 1 and was then rescuedropped out forward by Ray and Shanna. On EP, Dieck tanks a bunch of things (very small chance of death), Roy nostanks the nearby Wyverns, for some reason the Ballista all shoot at Percival instead of Ray. Shanna gets warped by Alan to ORKO Wyvern Lord Brunya easily, then Roy gets warped by Percival to seize. Elen bought like 7 elixirs with all my leftover cash. 4 Warps 1 Rescue left.

Chapter 24 (9/154) - I have 2 sleep staves, 2 physics, a recover, elixirs everywhere, an entire entourage of 15 and 14 mov mounts and 4 divine weapon users, it was pretty simple. Alan slept one of the first throne dragons, Shanna killed the one on the throne. Percival rescue staffed Roy so he could seize the first throne on turn 1. Yodel carried Fae forward, everyone else just rescuedropped people forward and stuff. Repeat strat, usually sleep staffing or killing one of the throne guards whilst someone gets the boss. I got the second throne on turn 3, the third on turn 4, then warped Roy so he could get the 4th on turn 5. Roy got rescuedropped to get to the 5th on turn 6, then uneccessarily warped (I stopped giving a shit) to help clear the 6th room out whilst Ray and Niime charged forward. Roy got the 6th on turn 8, then Shanna and Roy got warped to the final throne on turn 9, with Niime there to clear the way for Ray so he could team up with Shanna for Jahn (who had capped speed...).

Final (2/156) - I couldnt 1 turn Idun, nobody could double her except Shanna for 3 damage (lol). Luckily her HP sucked so Dieck + Ray and light Shanna chip were able to do it in 2 turns.

That means I beat Gradivus by 1 turn without any dancers and the 8 turn penalty! Mounts and Warps reign supreme. Alan and Percival MVPs. Ray too, since he was like HM MIledy on crack (which was neccessary when all the bosses are huge assholes)

lol I just counted, 37 Warps and 6 Rescues in total thanks to 2 Warp staves and 3 Hammernes. This was so much fun.

EDIT:

Unit Fight Data/Analysis

ShamanM!Roy - Started off acceptably considering his terrible base stats. Flux's base Mt really helped out, but I still had to rig his levels a little. Once he promoted, he had solid enough stats to ORKO most unpromoted chumps and Nostank whenever he needed to be dropped in seize range. Towards the end of the run I was further and further impressed with how handy it was to have a Nosferatanking Roy. Overall, his stats were average.

HeroM!Marcus - Was extremely solid for early and midgame, but started to fall off due to movement in the second half of the run. His combat remained pretty good throughout thanks to great bases, and Armads got me some extra loot in C16.

Troubador!Alan - Definitely worth the 8 turn penalty, double Warp basically canceled out the lack of a dancer on lategame maps besides C22. Was kinda a pain to get to A staves, the 20 free turns in 20x made it just possible since he had to spend a lot of earlygame helping with Rescuedrops. Stayed pretty average throughout.

Pirate!Bors - Sucked statistically but he helped a bunch in earlygame and was a unit that could pass rescue many of my other foot units and pass them to mounts later, freeing up their turn 1 PP. Well worth the pick.

Pegasus Knight!Elen - Saved a lot of turns thanks to being an early flier. Her combat was passable for early and midgame, then she fell off a cliff, but fortunately grabbing loot and rescuing was still important.

CavalierM!Dieck - Really helpful early on, and was statistically blessed all around up till promotion. Then he averaged out with a lot of dud levels whilst he running ahead and bosskilling, and his performance was similarly average there too, aside from the odd Durandal use. Lategame he wasn't fast enough to double many enemies (I prob could have sold more junk to afford him some speedwings but w/e), but he was still useful, and bulk helped out in C23 for sure at least. His 15 con was annoying to deal with at times.

NomadM!Shanna - Realllllly strong. Nomads are great in FE6, and having psuedo-Sue from Chapter 2 was even better. Trained very easily, helped snipe problematic enemies, and her super speed let her double enemies most of my units couldn't. 17 range Murgleis shone in lategame too. Didn't really get stat blessed or cursed.

WyvernM!Fir - She generally just self improved, but she did help out here and there, mostly with grabbing loot. Being female in male wyvern rider severly limited her rescuing capabilities though. I think Elen overall helped out more than she did despite how good her stats were. Stat wise she was blessed like crazy in Strength and Defence, but it was kinda irrelevant; Killer Lance crits exist if her strength wasnt so high, and FE6 lets you dodge enemies a lot.

Berserker!Tate - She self improved the whole game and made no real contributions (besides helping to recruit Percival) for most of her entire lifespan, aside from helping with the switch on C22, so she did save at least 1 turn! Recruiting her also got me an extra elysian whip, which meant that I could promote Elen instead of having to keep the two you get normally for Fir and Ray, which helped out a lot. So whilst she wasn't a great pick, she definitely wasn't a bad one.

WyvernF!Ray - Jesus on a dragon. Wyvern tends to make most units op, and that goes tenfold for a magic unit randomised to Wyvern, as magic classes have low bases and thus playables have good personal bases instead. With a bit of training, speedwings and a quick promotion, he easily became the strongest unit of the run within 1 chapter. Critical for ferrying Roy around and his whopping base 19 Strength that capped out early helped a ton with many obnoxious tanky bosses. Having existant res was also nice in a few scenarios. Statistically he was about +1 on most of his stats for most of the game (besides HP, he was uber blessed in that), but I never rigged him any levels.

Druid!Percival - If Ray is Jesus, then Percival is the Father who art in Heaven. His Warps saved countless turns, and his bulk helped to make maps like C21 a lot more reliable than you'd think. Admittedly, he may have been a lot less useful if I hadn't been blessed with an extra Warp staff and 2 extra Hammernes, but overall, the lack of a dancer ended up canceling it out. Stat wise he needed Mag rigging once or twice but never more than +1 over his average.

Valkyrie!Niime - Bolting sadly never came in handy, but Forblaze and Hammerne sure did. Despite being a lategame unit, she made pretty big contributions. Too bad she couldn't be my third Warper.

Falcoknight!Jodel - He was pretty much just filler, but he did improve reliability in some lategame maps, along with being a Fae ferrybot in C24. I think he may have saved one turn in C22 by rescuedropping at least.

Pegasus Knight!Geese - Deserves a special note for being the best undrafted ferry unit I had. He helped out a bunch in various midgame chapters. There were other ferriers and shoppers, but Geese definitely had the most impact. If I'd gotten to draft him, Fir would have likely done the things he did instead, whilst his stats would have been a lot better.

Bishop!Klein, Bishop!Zealot - Due to unothodox rules, they helped to save a bunch of turns via warping other undrafteds to help save turns for neccessary recruitments. Klein saved at least 10 turns via warping Lalum and Miledy, Zealot saved about 3 by warping Miledy.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Irysa

[Vennobennu]

Thanks for writing up (almost) the whole playthrough! Was a fun read.