Fates Character Opinions Survey Tier List; Revelations Survey Up

[Thane]

Huh, really? I've actually had sort of the opposite problem in Birthright with her and Kaze, who I think I ranked D. Kagero's the untouchable killing machine, while Kaze can barely hurt anyone and gets killed really frequently when he's not near Orochi, who I married him to.

Suzukaze doesn't deal a lot of damage, no, but he's a good debuffer and at least doubles pretty much anyone; my Kagerou is just so underwhelming, and I even married her in my most recent run.

Maybe I'm just a bad commander and husbando.

[ChaosGallade]

I think the one that sticks out for me is Kagerou; she has never been a reliable unit in my runs, having both low HP and speed. Sure, she packs quite a punch but she rarely doubles the faster enemies and she gets killed easily by physical hits.

The ironic part about Kagero is that she has a negative Speed modifier of -1, but a high Speed growth rate of 70%. A -1 in Speed isn't much of a big deal, IMO. She's still a good anti-mage unit, though.

[Thor Odinson]

I am a big fan of Dread Fighter Kaze. I noticed he was dealing low damage so I slapped Dread on him and it was something ridiculous like a 5 point str boost immediately also aggressor is cool come lategame

but he already has shuriken ranks anyway, so it's a pretty easy change.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[XeKr]

I'd put first joining Jakob above Effie too, but that doesn't make her worse than say, Keaton.

Would you have Keaton in A though? I think she’s better as well fwiw.

Also a tangent, I guess I don’t favor grade inflation. Having all the units clustered around S/A/A- doesn’t make much sense. I understand it’s supposed to imply that a lot of characters are “good” and viable in this game, but it doesn’t really draw strong distinctions between students characters. The existence of S already implies we don’t like thinking of C as the “average” grade.

If a bunch of characters are comparable in combat or role to each other, I think they should be in the average rank, B. And to be fair, the tier descriptions, however closely people chose to adhere to them, did allude to this (“ahead of the pack” for A). It’s also possible a lot of people voted them S and a lot B/C, but eh like I said the midtiers are a mess.

People are being too harsh on Arthur in general IMO. I think he's a solid B because of his availability and solid stats, let alone pair up. His main problem is that he's often reliant on using a Bronze Axe especially early on (which isn't too bad since his base STR is okay). People just not giving him one or something? Forging one a bit is pretty good for him.

I’m not sure how others are counting online features (which can get out of control quickly), but Forging without other castles is unreliable early. In the likely case you don’t have the right material, you need 5 minerals to convert into the 1 necessary. Usually I play without forging or I’ll build up materials to forge Kodachi/Hand Axes/Javelins for later Ninjas/Mages. Arena refreshes every chapter so you can reliably get a few forges of whatever by then. But again, not early unless you wait many 6(?) hour cycles for the gathering spot.

I haven’t really tried Arthur as a combat unit, because his Pair Up stats are just so amazing for Effie, Niles, Selena, Camilla, etc. But if he is a relevant combat unit, I suppose it’s easy to see him above Lazslow or whoever joins later.

[Shephen]

Some riffs I have with the Birthright list aside from Takumi being S. Coming from Lunatic experience.

Saizo really shouldn't be a tier below the other ninjas. He is the most durable out of them and joins really early. If anything Kagero should be a tier or two below Kaze and Saizo since she has the worst durability and orkoing the enemies isn't that hard for the Ninjas.

Hinata and Oboro should be the same tier. They have similar offensive parameters in the beginning with Hinata having the edge thanks to there being more fighters and wyverns early on. Hinata also has the advantage there being Kodachis that can be forged and used while Oboro has to share the Javelin or take a spirit dust dump to use the Bolt Naginata. In the late game both are foot-locked units who only do really well when given the effective weaponry. Kaden is in the same vein as them and should go down a bit.

Baki is basically Hinoka-lite, just needs tonics and a guard stance buddy. He is one of the few mounted units early on and flight is useful for a lot of the maps.

Mozu needs to be lower. She is really the only unit in Birthright truly useless at base and for the early game. Rinka has chapter 4 to gain some exp and can tank some physical attacks while dishing out decent damage with her personal. Hayato hits Res and his personal lets him deal respectable damage. Mozu can't do anything at base. Even going long-term only thing Mozu has is Kinshi Knight and she is still hindered a bit here. Rinka and Hayato will both hit 1-2 range with magic and both can shove for what its worth.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Since we are past 100 results, I've decided to post the first two lists for now, more data could change it!

The scoring system I had was kinda weird, so the tiers may be a little uneven or people were just more decisive/indecisive on certain characters. So certain tiers are smaller or bigger depending on the general consensus or lack of on some characters. Such as Conquests S tier being bigger etc.

Also this is only the first 2 lists, after 100 results, I'd like more people to vote but I'm unsure if I should reset both of the polls or just wait. Vote I guess, also these don't look fancy it was tedious to put it together none the less lmao.

Also note this is community opinions as a whole, do not let this dissuade you from using certain characters if you like them/think they are better than some people seem to, this is just an experiment. (I mean I personally disagree with a number of spots haha).

Birthright List 1

Conquest List 1

Effie WAY too high, wow. Shes good, but S tier? I kinda doubt it? Id put Azura there because refresher is always amazing.

Okay as the resident one of the most successful users of Rinkah D tier is too fucking low her growths aren't that bad

If you can get her through her bases she's golden

Being more objective I'd say C's more reasonable because even cutting down on what I fed her (The amount I fed Rinkah is not for her to be good, but to become the best unit in my party after Corn and Ryoma--hell she was better than Corn until he got Blazing Yato) she fits the description of

>Took resources

>Says "fuck you" to dying

I say that fits her description pretty well

Yarr. I didnt favor Rinkah THAT much, but i did give her some kills and she isnt ass tier.

[Rizziah]

What I put:

Birthright S: Corrin, Felicia/Jakob (whichever you get first), Kaze, Azura, Saizo, Hinoka, Takumi, Reina, Ryoma, Scarlet

Birthright A: Subaki, Silas, Oboro, Hinata, Kagero

Birthright B: Orochi, Setsuna, Kaden, Izana, Yukimura, Shura

Birthright C: Rinkah, Sakura (B if playing Female Corrin), Hana, Azama,

Birthright D: Hayato, Mozu

---

Nohr S: Corrin, Felicia/Jakob, Camilla, Leo, Xander, Azura

Nohr A: Silas, Elise, Effie, Niles, Peri, Keaton, Kaze

Nohr B: Gunther, Arthur, Odin, Beruka, Selena, Laslow, Shura, Flora, Izana

Nohr C: Nyx, Benny, Charlotte

Nohr D: Mozu

[Djing]

Why's Odin dead bottom? We're talking about Conquest, not Revelations. He's not amazing, but he's competent enough to obtain an S support without being a liability.

Effie is also definitely too high. Enemy stats will catch up to her and her flawed accuracy and movement issues make it hard to justify being above guys like Keaton, Niles and Jakob.

Kagero is definitely worse than Saizo and Kaze. Unless she's significantly onerounding things the others cannot, her inferior defenses, skill and availability hold her back.

Mozu is literally useless in Birthright and only barely decent in Conquest.

Arthur should switch places with Charlotte. They're basically have the same purpose as pair up fodder but Arthur has way more availability in chapters that matter.

Birthright Silas and Hinata need to move up for being the only Sword users worth taffy until Ryoma shows up.

I can make an argument for Azura moving up to S. An extra turn for a guy like Ryoma or Takumi to kill something is huge. It is extremely important for units to stay close together in this game and the ability to help a tank that has been left behind to regain formation is something no other unit can do as effectively. Near perfect availability is also good.

tldr: Democratic tier lists don't work.

[Dark Sage]

These lists are really whack.

Birthright

Takumi doesn't deserve to be in S tier and to be honest, I don't think he's very good in Birthright. Certainly he's a competent fighter and he's very useful in his first two chapters but he really struggles to contribute in routs because he has no enemy phase and Birthright is a heavily EP focused game. You're also not lacking in competent fighters either in this route, so Takumi can be pretty redundant.

Azura should be in S. Early dancer is just too ridiculous.

Saizo and Silas need to move up a tier while Kagero and Kaden move down one. Saizo's start is good and he is not only stronger than Kaze but he's more durable than the other two ninjas, making him the best longterm investment while still being good in the short term. Silas is one of your few mounted units and he comes with good weapon ranks, move, and durability and it's easy to fix his speed problems. Kagero and Kaden join relatively late and have durability problems; Kagero also needs investment to get going.

Sakura's aura is handy but it's not a two tiers worth difference from Azama.

Tsubaki should go up a lot. Darting Blow really helps out his offense and it's really easy to patch up any attack or speed issues he has with pair-up and tonics. He's somewhat bulky and his growths, while not great, are sufficient and if all else fails, he can serve as a good taxi. Having an extra flier can really be helpful in some maps.

Early joining Jakob should be in A or S tier since he shits all over the early game and can stay competitive for a long time. Latejoining Jakob should be in low tier, he's absolutely terrible except as a pair up bot for the Avatar.

Oboro shouldn't be two tiers over Hinata. Orochi should be a tier lower. Rinka and Mozu should swap tiers. Mozu is utterly worthless and Rinka at least joins early with acceptable enough bases to do something with. She's ass but not unsalvageable. Hinoka has a good case for going into S tier, she's basically Palla with Catria's growths, it's ridiculous.

Conquest

Effie is good but not S tier worthy. 4 move for awhile really does hurt and really limits her contributions earlygame, especially if you have a strong Avatar and your first servant is reclassed (Paladin Jakob makes Chapter 8 a joke for example).

Lazlo and Benny need to drop. Lazlo's bases are passable but that's about it and he can have speed and defense problems and unlike Selena, he can't fall back on being a versatile utility unit since his rally bonuses are so small. Benny is slow and is forced to go to General or else he gets bodied pretty hard. He also brings nothing to the table when you have Leo, Keaton, and Xander joining like right after him.

Arthur is too low. He at least comes early and while he's often better off paired off, his combat isn't terrible and he can consistently 2HKO stuff while having decent durability. He can always fall back on promoting to Berserker and serving as a permanent pair up bot just like Charlotte if you want. Speaking of which Charlotte needs to drop because her bases are mediocre and she can have accuracy problems, which makes it harder to feed kills to her and her payoff isn't that great.

Gunther should rise. He's a good utility unit for awhile as a Wyvern Lord and his bases can hold him over until lategame starts to kick in. After that, he can just be the Avatar's taxi and pair up bot, which he's a good choice for due to his good personal skill.

Mozu needs to drop down to Odin tier, she's absolutely worthless. I don't know why people claim Archer makes her relevant; you don't need bow users in Conquest, or at least, you don't need a lot of them and even then, Niles and Shura can not only fill that niche but have thief utility and staff utility. Conquest being as bow reliant as FE6 and FE12 is a myth that needs to die.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Dark Sage

[Dark Holy Elf]

Why's Odin dead bottom? We're talking about Conquest, not Revelations. He's not amazing, but he's competent enough to obtain an S support without being a liability.

Who would you rank below him?

Gunter? Legitimately useful in a small handful of maps.

Nyx? Similar character with a better stat build due to actually having speed.

Mozu? I can see it, but she has potential to be really good for certain playstyles.

Arthur? Goodness no, his pairup value is far greater.

[-Cynthia-]

Would you have Keaton in A though? I think she’s better as well fwiw.

Probably not. He's tanky, but usually doesn't enough have enough Mt to OHKO unless it's a a Peg Knight(and Effie OHKOs Falcon Knights at 1 range anyway). Against things like ninjas he just kinda sits there and gets hit, while Effie can counter at 1-2 range and OHKO, his 1 range lock gives him a lot of issues. Not really seeing how Keaton is notably more accurate than Effie either for whoever mentioned that. He has 2 more Skl than her at level 15 than she did at level 6. He has 25% skill growth in his base class, Effie has 50%, 45% after promotion. Beastrune has 5 hit over an unforged Steel Lance. Great Knight Effie also has 1 more Mov compared to a promoted Keaton and she's probably promoting right about when he joins(Chapter 16 for me).

I'd probably put Effie above everyone currently in A, except Jakob(if early joining) and maybe Silas which is why I don't think she's terribly overrated since it's like 1-2 spots away.

Edited February 28, 2016 by -Cynthia-

[Djing]

Who would you rank below him?

Gunter? Legitimately useful in a small handful of maps.

Nyx? Similar character with a better stat build due to actually having speed.

Mozu? I can see it, but she has potential to be really good for certain playstyles.

Arthur? Goodness no, his pairup value is far greater.

Benny, Charlotte and Mozu.

Nyx is debateable since her accuracy and defense are hopeless.

Charlotte and Benny have poor stat builds and availability. Mozu is Mozu. You can argue that Archer Mozu is good for chapter 10, but I can't imagine her remaining relevant after that.

Gunter and Arthur should move up as well. And I would say they are better than Odin.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I found Nyx with a +Spd pairup who could double and ORKO many of the less fast enemy types in Hard chapters 9-13 or so, which is useful. Yeah her defence is hopeless, and I dropped her when Leo came around, but this felt dramatically more useful than anything Odin could do, unless you got really lucky with his speed growth.

Charlotte I didn't use much myself, but like Arthur she seems good as a potential pairup unit. +Str/Spd is so, so much more valuable than +Mag/Res.

Mozu of course has a good case to be the worst unit in the game, but I wouldn't expect her to be the lowest on a democratic tier list, because for certain playstyles that slow down and grind a lot, she will be extremely useful due to her growths.

[joshcja]

Odin on lunatic:

Odin is the only viable first gen nostank and picks up immediately, he's free in his join chapter and can gain a level without really trying too hard due to how the exp spread in this game works, and if you ignore mozu (gotta go fast) he can facedive the next 2 main game chapters with nos+pots in a really relevant way, and he never really stops rolling deep due to his surprisingly good def/hp/skill and passable speed/mag growths, and his daughter makes a 2 turn of ch19/3 turn ch20 with both of the relevant chests possible as she can actually orko with nos on the right setups. (Nos on odin is actually a net profit cause ophelia's paralouge is $$$). He actually saves a LOT more turns than he costs as the AI "no suicide rush" law tends to forget nos exists so he can freely pick up statwhore/his waifu and take out half a map while the player phase reliant mooks team down the other side.

By the time you break out of the sloggy route/pseudo route maps and care about high magic/doubling FAT targets (ch21 onwards)... everything you want to hit has wary fighter anyways so odin/ophelias barbarian level critrates and free brave/pseudo killer/breaker tomes are just more resources saved for more turns saved.

TL:DR: Nos got nerfed to hell but there's a good reason there are only 2 of them in the entire game. Odin has early EP utility in a game focused heavily on the player phase where a big 4 units have early EP utility. One of those is locked to 1 range, one is a 4 move thwomp, silias the god is silias the god

Edit: I hate how despite conquest being a really deep and varied game every post I make seems to end in "rally are good use x, or nos is good use x".

Edited February 29, 2016 by joshcja

[Jedi]

Btw will there be a Revelation tier list as well?

Yes. But I'm waiting till everyone has had a chance to play it and not just the Special Edition folks.

These lists are really whack.

Part of it is the funky scoring system I have in place (Elieson and I kinda just winged it), which I'm sorry for. I'll have it better done next time, thanks for your input so far everyone.

[General Banzai]

Azama in tier C is comedy central, one of the best units in the route rofl

[Espinosa]

Azama in tier C is comedy central, one of the best units in the route rofl

I'm sure some of the traits of one of the best units in the game are having high attack and defence while using staves and using brass lances upon promotion.

[Thane]

Yes. But I'm waiting till everyone has had a chance to play it and not just the Special Snowflake folks.

Fixed that for you.

...Shut up, I just woke up and I'm hilarous.

[The DanMan]

I'm sure some of the traits of one of the best units in the game are having high attack and defence while using staves and using brass lances upon promotion.

Eh, if you have the CE you can make him a Dark Flier and he becomes instantly more usable.

[Anacybele]

List looks fine to me, but the Amiibo units were still forgotten... xP

[Dark Holy Elf]

I imagine most people would rather avoid DLC and similar characters in lists like this. I don't know exactly how the Amiibo characters are implemented, though.

I'm sure some of the traits of one of the best units in the game are having high attack and defence while using staves and using brass lances upon promotion.

This is a problem faced by every other staff user who has no weapons until promotion. I haven't played Birthright yet, but to me Azama being that far below Sakura feels weird, looking at the stats; they have the same move and he has considerably more bulk. Is her better personal skill and easier Falconknight access really worth the tier gap there?

[secondworld]

Yeah Arthur seems a bit low, bias aside even, I think I'd put him above Benny. Gunter I'm unsure about. Great Knight is a great pair-up class but Gunter isn't around when he would be most useful and I don't think there's much room for him when rejoins.

I haven't use Keaton so I had no idea where he'd end up on this, what makes him so good?

[Water Mage]

I imagine most people would rather avoid DLC and similar characters in lists like this. I don't know exactly how the Amiibo characters are implemented, though.

This is a problem faced by every other staff user who has no weapons until promotion. I haven't played Birthright yet, but to me Azama being that far below Sakura feels weird, looking at the stats; they have the same move and he has considerably more bulk. Is her better personal skill and easier Falconknight access really worth the tier gap there?

I think the reason Sakura is higher is because she's more versatile.

Azama is a great physical unit, but only that, while Sakura can be a lot of things and fufill a lot of roles, due to her growths.

[Jave]

List looks fine to me, but the Amiibo units were still forgotten... xP

Not everyone has access to the amiibo figures so it makes sense to leave them out, at least for now.

We'll probably do a 2nd Gen tier discussion before talking about the amiibo characters.

[XeKr]

Probably not. He's tanky, but usually doesn't enough have enough Mt to OHKO unless it's a a Peg Knight(and Effie OHKOs Falcon Knights at 1 range anyway). Against things like ninjas he just kinda sits there and gets hit, while Effie can counter at 1-2 range and OHKO, his 1 range lock gives him a lot of issues. Not really seeing how Keaton is notably more accurate than Effie either for whoever mentioned that. He has 2 more Skl than her at level 15 than she did at level 6. He has 25% skill growth in his base class, Effie has 50%, 45% after promotion. Beastrune has 5 hit over an unforged Steel Lance. Great Knight Effie also has 1 more Mov compared to a promoted Keaton and she's probably promoting right about when he joins(Chapter 16 for me).

I'd probably put Effie above everyone currently in A, except Jakob(if early joining) and maybe Silas which is why I don't think she's terribly overrated since it's like 1-2 spots away.

I’m okay with her in A, but there’s a noticeable gap between the S tiers (imo Azura, Camilla, Corrin, Jakob, Xander, alphabetically) and the others in Conquest.

She’s worse than Leo and Silas. Maybe some others depending on how one values Pair Up/staff botting. >_> (and I suppose how good the latter actually is in Hard)

Tbh to me she’s kinda comparable to Gunter. As Pair Ups for better units, Gunter gives more damage/hit and flies (+Shelter is just amazing for efficient play) and is more important as the pocket unit lategame, Effie is more important earlier. 10/1 Effie is pretty comparable to rejoining Gunter, with worse weapon ranks, though she lasts longer. Overall, maybe I’d rather have Effie, but that’s in large part because we have very few (tanky) units available earlygame. And if we’re assigning credit for that, Gunter probably gets some for chapters 2, 3, 15, where he’s invaluable.

Keaton’s promoted class gives +10 hit and he’s probably using Beaststone for the Spd which is 10 more hit. But yeah, 1 range is sadness.

This is a problem faced by every other staff user who has no weapons until promotion. I haven't played Birthright yet, but to me Azama being that far below Sakura feels weird, looking at the stats; they have the same move and he has considerably more bulk. Is her better personal skill and easier Falconknight access really worth the tier gap there?

Do people find the low level staff users mattering much? Rescue is E, which the Falcons can use. Latest!Izana is the best candidate to hex the later bosses. So it's just some token healing early, and the good characters take very little damage then (or are far off ahead of 5 move healers, even with 2 staff range).

And in playstyles where healing matters more, if you have Felicia, she heals and debuffs and can Explosive Shuriken midgame and half-replicates Sakura's Personal with her class skill and can get a fast Inspiration maybe.

Edited February 29, 2016 by XeKr