The Lunatic Club [Fates]

[guedesbrawl]

^The entrap maid? I'd understand the hexing rod maid (which can be cheesed with a level 1 Mozu if you have the room for it or a similarly weak unit), but you can just clear the Hero room and let the maid entrap Kaze or Leo.

And you really don't need to waste money on Enfeeble for 12!Ryoma when you can debuff him with the pot behind him. (Especially if you played well to have Kaze or Felicia with full DG, otherwise you might need the Shelter+Sing trick).

 

[joshcja]

5 hours ago, komasa said:

Is there other staves to be precious about apart from Rescue? (Namely: Entrap, Enfeeble and Silence) 

No. Rescue is the only stave you need to hoard. Spam the others (esp freeze) as recklessly as you like.

1 hour ago, guedesbrawl said:

^The entrap maid? I'd understand the hexing rod maid (which can be cheesed with a level 1 Mozu if you have the room for it or a similarly weak unit), but you can just clear the Hero room and let the maid entrap Kaze or Leo.

And you really don't need to waste money on Enfeeble for 12!Ryoma when you can debuff him with the pot behind him. (Especially if you played well to have Kaze or Felicia with full DG, otherwise you might need the Shelter+Sing trick).

 

The entrap maid can actually kill someone on some runs. Silence is mostly useful for the double freeze stave at the end, purely for convenience.

You get a free enfeeble from Azama's room on Ch11. It's pretty useful.

Edited February 17, 2017 by joshcja

[ruruo]

Alright, got it! Thank you for the responses, will be shamelessly using those staves when needed ;)

[guedesbrawl]

10 hours ago, joshcja said:

 

The entrap maid can actually kill someone on some runs. Silence is mostly useful for the double freeze stave at the end, purely for convenience.

You get a free enfeeble from Azama's room on Ch11. It's pretty useful.

Kaze with any good DEF pair-up should be able to survive that, i think, but i'll say that's still a good use of Silence.

The freeze maids in Hans's room... well. You can use a shelter+song setup to kill the right maid with a bow-user and retreat beyond the General's range in a run without entrap, but again, legit use of silence. 

 

I forgot about that enfeeble, haha. last time i went through conquest was the "Swap" hack with B r characters that ddin't give chest keys in lunatic, so... i forgot! (don't kill me).

[De Geso]

Ok, I know you guys all say Chapter 17 of Conquest is easy but I'm stuck on it pretty hardcore. I've been able to pretty easily get over most of the hurdles so far in the run but this is too much, none of my guys can really deal with the swarms of ninja and master ninja coming at them. 

Is there a trick to doing this map that I don't know about? I've been cutting them off from swarming me with the Dragon Veins but that only really prolongs the inevitable. Getting pretty frustrated with this. 

This is my first run on Lunatic Conquest, for what it's worth. 

[joshcja]

17 exists as a really polite warning of things to come for people who didn't listen to ch10. It's one of the more difficult chapters if you used a standard FE build, which is uuuuh, everyone's first playthrough. (Pretty much impossible if you actually listened to any reddit post ever.)

The trick is realizing pony advantage is a lie past ch14, pick up bows, birds, or Srank classes on every unit for an easy run. Bowponys are fine, just not shitty regular ponys.

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So the dragon veins, leave them alone, just use them to keep saizo from getting to the boss either permanently via the north chest room or troll him in the starting area. There is a "consistent" way to use these for a flyerskip, but it's very much LTC only. So just trust me on this and ignore them.

Tonics for days on the mainstay killdie units and a nice filling meal as well (make someone gift Peri a chefs hat). You may want to eyeball benchmarks and crank out some light forges or just do a child paralouge to forcibly shift your build to be viable in post Ch14-CQ. Honestly saccing kana for this shift is that little brats main reason for living. If Silias is 3 damage/def off let Corrin sit at half hp all chapter, she'll be aight. If you are off by 1 str/speed use Lafast.

Ninja swarms. You have a few options here, reach 32 action speed on someone with an accurate antininja weapon that can double shuriken, gate, bolt axe, or bow through a wall can turn ninja's into fleshy wet salsa. Alternately forge a +2 hand axe and have a zerker holding another zerker sling it (these normally hit OHKO benchmarks with tonics and a meal), or rally def/flat def stack/Vof abuse to heard the little ninja's like sheeple by forcing 0 damage while holding a 1-2 weapon.

Regardless of your choice kill the middle of the map fast, and then swing north with attack stance kills on mechanists and dolls.

Reinforcements: Drop Leo/Odin on them in guard stance holding Nos. End of problem.

Use freeze charges as needed to stop mechanists from pushing your shit in when you missplay. (It happens, freeze is cheap).

The boss evaporates if you enfeeble+heartseeker him.

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Post more info for more info. There are a lot of tricks here.

Edited February 19, 2017 by joshcja

[ruruo]

I run a pretty standard team and have completed Ch17. Camilla is my only flier. Xander, Silas, Niles and Elise are my only mounted units, the rest are on foot. Only needed one reset because I did something stupid. I used DVs to split the enemy teams and manipulate their AI. In short, it's a map where imho you really need to keep an eye on enemy movement and take full advantage of that. Never pop a DV just because you can, check for the consequences first, they will always move to where they can get to your units the fastest. 

 

I tend split my team into two, a smaller team going north in the beginning, and a larger one to the east. There's so many ninjas, you really don't want any of your own units sitting doing nothing. The smaller team takes care of the Mechanist reinforcements, the larger team will be going for the middle 'room'. 

That middle "room" with the Shrine Maiden. I'd get in there by Turn 3/4.  It's a great place to block an entry point with a tank and kill ninjas through the wall. (I usually block the bottom east with a tank first. When the ninjas become too clustered, then pop the DV. The AI will always move to the north, it'll give you a chance to heal/kill things through the wall, and the trap near the north entrance slows them. Use Haitaka - he can sort of neutralise the defence debuff with Rally, and also throw Javelins over the wall. Anyone with a bow is helpful. 

There will be a point where my two teams will get close to each other, which is when I remove the trap and move offensively against the rest of the ninjas.

Watch out for the Lunge Swordmasters (their modus operandi is pretty obvious, don't let give them the chance to lunge your tank). And freeze the Lunge Swordmaster near Kotaro, when taking out the Master Ninjas near him.  Kotaro, as josh mentioned, Enfeeble and Heartseeker trivialises him. By Enfeebling, it reduces his crit chance to 0% to most of your units, so give the exp to whoever needs it. 

 

(Hope that makes some kind of sense . Feel like I made things sound more complicated than it is by typing it out lol. Putting it simply - if popping DVs pop them to your advantage.) 

Edited February 19, 2017 by komasa

[guedesbrawl]

First of all, don't be ashamed of doing lab runs. If you use an offensive strategy in this map you can end up triggering the reinforcements by accident, before they actually can be safely dealt with. An alternate save file with Casual mode for battle saves is perfect for that sort of thing.

As for an strategy... well, my team was massively underpowered at the time, and i had a low unit count (14 effective fighters. Mozu was there just to be a pair-up for Azura, since she could tank one shuriken but died to attack stance). But here was what i did:

0- Rely on Guard Stance. This map is cramped as hell.

1- Clear the trap to the left and bunch up near the pillar that gets lowered by dragon vein. Saizo will move up, and he can handle the ninjas up there. You should trap him as soon as he is in range of the upper ninjas, who get blocked off by a DV. This way, you can raise the walls and have Saizo waste a couple turns up there.

2- Meanwhile, clear out the enemies in the central room in front of your team. The area with the Shrine Maiden is blocked off, but you can stop near the walls to bait some of the enemies there. This is important.

3- Enemies will start trickling in from above. This is just a matter of balancing defense and offense to advance carefully over the upper corridor. It's interesting to use Niles and Kaze as baits above the caltrops, since they take no damage. It slows down a couple enemies, and you can deactivate the trap in the following turn. This was really hard for me, but i'm sure that with beasts like Camilla and Xander you can handle it.

4- Clean up the rest of the units, but be careful about making the reinforcements pop up.

5- Saizo will try to escape to the right side of the map by this point. use DV to manipulate him to go north. The objective is to use the enemies near the upper chest as bait and trap him there for eternity.

6- Have your entire party stationed near the reinforcements, send one unit out to trigger then. The upper left's reinforcements can be triggered without activating the nearby lunge chain, so remember that!

7- Kill the upper left reinforcements then the southern ones as they trickle in on you.

8- Activate and handle the lunge chains with whoever can survive those. Xander probably can. The non-lunge group on the south is easy to bait, but remember that the caltrops allow you to do some baiting over the walls without having people going to attack you directly. If you want, Entrap or Freeze can destroy the chains for you.

9- Same as step 6, but send the party to meet the northern reinforcements instead.

10- Activate Kotaro's lunge chain.

11- Kill Kotaro. Remember that your Dark Mage has the Heart Seeker skill, and have them retreat with Sing (and then shelter azura out) if they can't handle that enemy phase for some reason--with Nosferatu, that's unlikely. Debuffing Kotaro with Kaze is generally good. if you have joke weapons with super high accuracy like the rubber bow, they were made for this moment. 

Unmentioned, but i promoted my entire team between steps 6 and 7.

 

[joshcja]

I'm pretty sure promoted Niles holding a Str/Def pairup under song+footwork+tonics+meal can just evaporate the center room through a wall. It's been a while since I got to Ch17 without a certified blender unit or two though.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The last time i get to Chapter 17, Shurikenbreaker Oni Felicia with Bolt Axe soloed the map

 

 

[HoennZach]

Why are cavaliers so bad post 13? I know fliers are generally better hbut they are still decent

[joshcja]

Ch13 is where you unlock the second shop, there are more seals in the game than you will ever actually need at this point and money is no longer a limiting resource. While the cav tree can be used later on there is really no incentive to do so whatsoever as strong 1-2 and flight are just that much stronger.

The rabbit hole goes way deeper, but that's the most succinct explanation I've got aside from "Cavs are bad". It's a lie that's true enough as an aid to understanding.

Edited February 21, 2017 by joshcja

[ruruo]

Errrgh Ch 20 (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

At the moment I can clear this map fine by riding the winds on the right side and seizing. The issue is getting the chests on the left side of the map, and killing everyone for exp.  

[joshcja]

You can pull enemies down with a player activated downdraft. This is useful for stripping hayato of his birds if you do not have a unit capable of blicking him and his posse. The rest is just easy money.

Freeze as always is very good at covering your arse and can do some pretty hilarious things to the game's AI and movement on this map.

Edited February 21, 2017 by joshcja

[HoennZach]

 

So it essentially is just you have no reason to use Cav's over Fliers and 1-2 range units, and the cav line is basically the 1st tier skills is all you want?

Im guessing you want to get Silas into WL to compliment his growths and keep his lance rank

Jakob (1) marry Dragon Talent Corn for Malig and stay Malig for bolt axe, or go WL for better physical stats

Peri into Mechanist (marry kaze) for ok mov, 1-2 range, and abusing her personal + Replicate late game (if you save the c13 arms scroll for her) or BowKnight(A+ Selena) or get her into Kinshi (Im not sure how, maybe A+ Mozu if she can?) 

Xander can stay pally since he has 1-2 range

This seem about right for all the natural Cavaliers? (Well and Jakob but Jakob (1) is essentially a natural paladin anyways if you use him right)

[guedesbrawl]

Ideally, yeah, there are better classes than the cavalier lie for almost everyone in the game.

But CQ can be cheesed so easily i'd say 'why bother", but that's me.

[joshcja]

2 hours ago, HoennZach said:

 

So it essentially is just you have no reason to use Cav's over Fliers and 1-2 range units, and the cav line is basically the 1st tier skills is all you want?

Im guessing you want to get Silas into WL to compliment his growths and keep his lance rank

Jakob (1) marry Dragon Talent Corn for Malig and stay Malig for bolt axe, or go WL for better physical stats

Peri into Mechanist (marry kaze) for ok mov, 1-2 range, and abusing her personal + Replicate late game (if you save the c13 arms scroll for her) or BowKnight(A+ Selena) or get her into Kinshi (Im not sure how, maybe A+ Mozu if she can?) 

Xander can stay pally since he has 1-2 range

This seem about right for all the natural Cavaliers? (Well and Jakob but Jakob (1) is essentially a natural paladin anyways if you use him right)

You've got the basic idea.

Three things of note.

Silias is just bar none the best at all of his non-zerker physical options and his reclass options are "all of them" regardless of your build. Weapon rank past D is really only important on Dragonstones (C) Tomes (S), Axes (A), and Bows (C). Unless you're using Hayiwhatshisface, then yeah lance rank matters on him.

Elise and first servant are comparable to Silias but require seals much earlier in the game to escape the hell known as the troubador line. The Shining Bow is just as potent as the Bolt Axe, though it does require more specific setups. They're both cream of the crop weapons.

Xander in draco is low key very very strong in the midgame but you can certainly chose to leave him in paladin all game long because the only resource he really "needs" is talismans.

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I may actually try that build out on Peri in my next 1st gen run, never used her outside of shelterbotting.

Edited February 21, 2017 by joshcja

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

On 2017-02-19 at 10:49 AM, joshcja said:

I'm pretty sure promoted Niles holding a Str/Def pairup under song+footwork+tonics+meal can just evaporate the center room through a wall. It's been a while since I got to Ch17 without a certified blender unit or two though.

Vouching for Niles being very effective here. When I did this, a newly promoted Adventurer Niles + Fighter Arthur backpack + Tonics + Meal, with Elise standing beside him to buff and heal, allowed him to to just continually fight Ninja over the wall. I think he killed nearly half the map on his own over 6-7 turns. He could one-round Ninja, but not Master Ninja, though I also wasn't running an especially optimal build, so I'm sure a bit of tweaking would allow him to do that (not that it mattered too much because he hardly took any damage, then could finish the Master Ninja off while getting healed come PP).

[joshcja]

1 hour ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Vouching for Niles being very effective here. When I did this, a newly promoted Adventurer Niles + Fighter Arthur backpack + Tonics + Meal, with Elise standing beside him to buff and heal, allowed him to to just continually fight Ninja over the wall. I think he killed nearly half the map on his own over 6-7 turns. He could one-round Ninja, but not Master Ninja, though I also wasn't running an especially optimal build, so I'm sure a bit of tweaking would allow him to do that (not that it mattered too much because he hardly took any damage, then could finish the Master Ninja off while getting healed come PP).

*Runs numbers* (By runs numbers I mean actually tests this and then runs numbers on other bow slingers)

BK Niles holding Zerker Harlot/Arthur looks like the one round benchmark fully buffed holding a +1/+2 Iron bow.

So, every run should be able to blow up the center room on turn 2-3? Not the most elegant solution but certainly not the ugliest.

Edit: Christ on 2 crutches I've made too many posts in this thread today *goes outside and reads a book*.

Edited February 21, 2017 by joshcja

[De Geso]

Does class changing with a heart seal affect your seeded level ups, or do they stay the same?

For example, are Beruka's growths as a unit decided regardless of class, or does each class set have a different list of level ups that she'll gain once you recruit her? 

[joshcja]

You are seeded in your alt classes separately. So the second option you listed,

[De Geso]

13 hours ago, joshcja said:

You are seeded in your alt classes separately. So the second option you listed,

Thanks! That explains why Beruka actually seems to want to level speed as a fighter.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I've started my own Classic Conquest Lunatic run, with support grinding, skill buying, forge, food, and DLC all banned. However, I am permitting myself Capture, and BP and VP rewards, which I got up to 1400 and 1800 respectively. I'm not so good as to be able to ban everything extraneous.

C7 was not too bad with Pallykob. A few excellent early level ups let him ORKO Faceless with the Raider Katana.

C8, relied on a little luck to avoid losing units, but otherwise not too bad after a run or two. I wanted all the experience I could get and thus did not kill the boss immediately.

C9 took I think three runs, the second was screwed over by me not realizing the reinforcements may go after Azura (one did). Did Mozu's Paralogue beforehand.

C10 took two or three runs, and was a nightmare to start on the successful one, but by the end I had all but a lone ninja and Takumi taken out. Those rankings weapons were essential. Haitaka was "General Who Pacifies the Southeast" with a Dual Naginata and an Oboro's Spear (for one shotting Pegs with a Str Tonic). Jakob took care of the southwest, albeit not quite as easily. Between the two southern defenders, Beruka, Niles, Arthur and Effie all helped- the Pike Ruin Club allowing for shoddy but possible Peg OHKOs, and the Killer and Shining Bows just made Niles's day. Silas was the lone defender of the northwest with the Axe Splitter katana. When the water drained, Jakob helped Silas out. The northeast was defended by Selena and +Mag Corrin (who could still ORKO with the Yato), it was rather difficult, and Corrin almost died. Camilla moved across the eastern side of the map; at one point she had to attack from within the archers' ranges, but Lunged to safety. Odin shot fireballs (and took out a Savage dangerously close to the defend zone), Elise healed, and Azura sang her heart out.

C11 I have yet to start, but it doesn't appear too difficult. Effie can use Peri's Lance to dispatch the Setsuna's room. Kaze's will be dealt with via Camilla. Corrin and Silas I guess can handle Rinkah. Dunno how to take on my first taste of Hexing- Guard Naginata Haitaka to bait with a Player phase extermination? Big sister Cammy with a Dual Club will try to take out the Ninja, Diviner, or one of the LoD Samurai and then promptly tackle the rest of the Sams on the enemy phase (if they bother to attack her that is). I didn't Capture the Shrine Maiden in C9, so I'm gonna take the one behind Hinoka instead via double Shelter Sing. I just want a healer for C12, during which I'll just sneak along the northeast and aim for both chests if possible in the allotted time.

[joshcja]

Attack Azama's room from the top side in casual play.

[guedesbrawl]

2 hours ago, joshcja said:

Attack Azama's room from the top side in casual play.

This. Just remember that if you want to go for a rout (player OCD/maximizing EXP gain), you should tackle Rinkah's room, then loop back through Setsuna->Kaze->Samurai. You don't have the space to break into Rinkah's room from behind her without feeding WAY too much exp to whoever you made strong enough to do it.