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The Lunatic Club [Fates]


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Keatons sick strat is "pair up bot" in CQ. He's totally reliant on stone boosts to make his stats not ass and is a 1-1 infantry dude with no stack or utility as a lead.

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Kaze is also a decent early dude (his damage falls off midgame w/o a silias A+ or a strong S but worst case he's an early promo MN pairup). If you're going captureless pick up Utility!Shigure or do a 3 level dip on Selena for a full set of rallies. 

Edited by joshcja
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  • 2 months later...
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So I'm on Chapter 12 of Conquest (Lunatic obviously), and I don't think I'll have any trouble with it (though I haven't started it). However, there have been some issues with my playthrough that have me concerned:

Percy. I tried to get him by Chapter 10. Now I'm on Chapter 12, and Arthur and Effie are still A Rank. Honestly, I have no idea how. I gave them the entirety of Mozu's join map, and ArthurxEffie solo'ed the bottom part of Invasion 1 with the Dual Club. The only map I skimped on building support was Odin's join map, and that's because I wanted to make sure Odin and Wyvern!Elise got enough XP, and JakobxCorrin got enough support for Jakob to get Malig Knight ASAP (though it turns out Butler Jakob > E Rank Malig Knight for me on Chapter 10). So, instead of using Selena and Beruka, I have to waste slots on Effie and Nyx (was going for Nyx!Ophelia, which now feels like a mistake, though my idea was Vantage/LoD access for Nyx would make her usable as another Nos' tank, which I no longer believe is viable).  I still think he's worth the effort to get recruited, but it feels like it's almost at a point I should start over and either use ArthurxEffie properly, or Effie is a trap and go for something like ArthurxBeruka or something later.

For the record, Nyx is set at A Rank with Odin at this point as well.

Silas. I know he's insanely good with VoF. However, my Corrin has been Jakob's backpack, so I never really lose health on her, so he never proc's it (I know about HP Tonics, but spending a turn not having JakobxCorrin murdering something is never something I feel like I have the luxury of doing). Now it's Chapter 12 and he's level 9 and a backpack for Selena who I have a hard time fielding because of the above. I honestly wish I'd gone SilasxCorrin over JakobxCorrin simply because Silas feels like a better unit to invest in than Jakob, and while I know Ninja Corrin isn't great, MN stacked SilasxCorrin seems like a good exception.

I realize Ophelia, Percy, and Trample/Dragon Fang Dwyer will probably make up for benching Selena, Beruka, etc. I just haven't even played since I failed to get Percy after Chapter 11 (where I thought, "I wish I didn't have to deploy Effie. Oh well, this will be the last time.").

Thoughts, please?

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You're short one chapter for an S-rank support. There's a cap on how much you can gain and you hit it after four fights paired up together. Generally it takes 7 chapters of max points to get there: 1 for C, then 2 for everything that follows. This means Arthur Effie would get C from C7, then B from C8 and P1, then A from C9 and C10. C11 would put them halfway to S. You can get around this limitation if the units have chats inside your castle, but that's obviously pretty RNG (you can also attack online castles for something less RNG).

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Looking at the difference, unless you find a way to get around the breakpoints (like the castle convos), you can't do it in five maps. Just growing through combat, a fast support should get you to S in six maps instead of seven. You should probably have it if you were maxing points every time, so I guess holding back during Odin's join map might have come back to bite you.

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It's five fights together to hit the support cap, as detailed here. I've tested the findings about how the support points are counted extensively while trying to plan a run of Lunatic Conquest where I recruit and train absolutely everybody. They seem to be accurate, with some clarifications about the raw support gains:

  • Battled in Guard Stance or Attack Stance (even if the attack stance partner was unarmed): +6
  • Adjacent during a battle, but not as attack stance partners: +4
  • Sang to or used a staff on an ally: +4
  • Actually used a dual strike or dual guard during the battle (even if the dual strike was negated by enemy guard stance): +2
  • Seed of Trust or Private Quarters: +12, and these ignore the usual support caps

The link I just gave has a more accurate detailing of the situation, but roughly speaking, these raw support points are tallied and then sorted into tiers of 3, 2, or 1. For a given unit, only the top three partners on a particular map earn any points, and everyone else is dropped down to zero. You need to do five rounds of combat together (30 raw points) for the 3-point tier, three rounds (18 raw points) for the 2-point tier, and two rounds (or 10 raw points) for the 1-point tier. Only one unit can get the full three points; second place can earn at most two, and third place can get at most one.

(I suspect this same system is also used in Awakening. It explains why sometimes you don't get Chrom or Lissa C supports by the end of chapter 1, even when you're using the Water Trick and everyone has tons of fights alongside Robin.)

Effie and Arthur have a fast support, so their support break-points are 2 for C, 3 for B, 4 for A, and 5 for S. Normal supports take 3 for C and 4 for B. This does mean they only need six maps to get to S rank, so you can do it with 7, 8, 9, Mozu, Inv. 1, and 10. The main advantage of fast supports is that you can earn B rank in just one map—but only if you max out support points there. In this case, the crucial map is… Odin's join map.

If Effie and Arthur reached A before chapter 10, then they should still have earned S rank after chapter 11. So I suspect you also shorted them on these last two chapters. If the two of them did just four fights together on each map, then they'd have earned 2 points on both maps for a total of 4, and they need 5.

Edited by Zoran
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  • 3 weeks later...

I've got a mission to beat Conquest with different units than usual. I've been browsing this thread and I've decided to try Laslow MN, Selena, Elise wyvern, and maybe some other things. I also want to actually get some kids I'll use, like Soleil and Nina. I haven't used kids much, besides Dwyer and Ophelia, due to a lack of interest or finding them underwhelming (Percy). Any suggestions or tips? My first decision seems to be Mag+!Corrin with dragon? Then marrying Odin or Jakob would be the next decision.

Edited by Centh
grammar and spelling. damn mobile
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Give Percy another go imo. Percy is only overwhelmingly strong early if you use both Arthur and his wife heavily and pass down some stack (Eroom+Quick draw/Riposte/Axefaire+Str2 is a fat +11/+10/+12 at 2nd shop). He wants a wing if you level in WL. For funtime wonky strats a Archer!Effie/HS Peri/Selena/Axefaire Felecia + quickdip Arthur at second shop is pretty solid. Taking his innate 15's sounds out the build. For additional insanity a midori marrige gives and ending stack of +27 or +24 and luna. It's complete overkill but he holds the sole honor of killing tacomeat with no counter.

Elise wants HS desperately to patch up her accuracy.

Laslow has lower offensive stack than Soliel/Silias/Xander in MN but he holds up fine. Doubling down is bad news bears though the role is exp/invest heavy. Stick with one.

Draco!Corn is redundant with Elise. Roll DM/Oni imo and (go to jail) backpack her for doubleaurabot strats with felecia and 2 late bolt axes. X/1 Nos/lightforge/bolt clears 15 well enough.

Nina is cute and impossible to fuck up. Soliel wants Harlot/Effie/Camilla mothering.

Past that I'd say stick to 4 earlypairs + utility and you'll do fine.

Edited by joshcja
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I'll give Oni/DM a shot. I've done DM in the past for Ophelia, but I decided to marry Jakob to Partner seal to Malig after getting elbow room and shelter from paladin. In that run, I heart sealed Elise, but I'm having issues not glueing her to Odin's backpack in order for them to support lvl and have Odin live through things. I'm on Ch12 and Elise is only level 11. I do notice I try to get builds going too quickly or try to get everyone xp too fast sometimes. I have a hard time Uber favoring some units while others sit at below lvl 9 by Ch 12. Side note: is it worth while doing Selena!Sophie? I thought getting kinshi for Silas would be a tolerable option, especially if he gets speed screwed.

Edited by Centh
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3 hours ago, Centh said:

I'll give Oni/DM a shot. I've done DM in the past for Ophelia, but I decided to marry Jakob to Partner seal to Malig after getting elbow room and shelter from paladin. In that run, I heart sealed Elise, but I'm having issues not glueing her to Odin's backpack in order for them to support lvl and have Odin live through things. I'm on Ch12 and Elise is only level 11. I do notice I try to get builds going too quickly or try to get everyone xp too fast sometimes. I have a hard time Uber favoring some units while others sit at below lvl 9 by Ch 12. Side note: is it worth while doing Selena!Sophie? I thought getting kinshi for Silas would be a tolerable option, especially if he gets speed screwed.

She's a kinshi/BK in CQ and Silias get's DB and is a kinshi/BK.

It's not bad at all. I'd just drop Odin here tbh. You want a different unit run and any Odin run just becomes the Odin show. (If you want to keep him DK!Nyx/MU/Niles can keep him alive.)

-----------------

NNo need to rush kids pre 2nd shop

Earlystrat for Elise is just lightforge bronze axe with a speed tonic and str+2 dropping poise on dudes who need to live.

Odin can take Niles, a speed tonic, and a magic tonic left in ch8 and vuln tank double for a fuckload of exp.

Edited by joshcja
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I think that's the main problem. I lack xp because I'm force feeding nos steroid Odin. Also I'm trying to do too much too early. (E.g. trample cav dwyer by Ch 10). My strat for Odin on Ch. 8, running male MU, is to pair up with Felicia and have him eat a mag tonic two squares away from the mages left of the lake. I position Elise right behind them giving Odin 11 dmg doubling ORK the three mages, on EP after I unfreeze the river. I'm willing to go a little slower to make certain units viable but I don't like going super grindy (also not a fan of LTC, but I think there are good things to be learned from them). A "brisk" pace lol

 

Edit: also I love using Silas because he is so easy and can be any physical class. Like 2-3 level ups on his join chapter let's him roll the rest of the next maps. He gets a level up even before Effie spawns! I don't understand why people use her :/

Edited by Centh
forgot a part
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12 hours ago, Centh said:

I think that's the main problem. I lack xp because I'm force feeding nos steroid Odin. Also I'm trying to do too much too early. (E.g. trample cav dwyer by Ch 10). My strat for Odin on Ch. 8, running male MU, is to pair up with Felicia and have him eat a mag tonic two squares away from the mages left of the lake. I position Elise right behind them giving Odin 11 dmg doubling ORK the three mages, on EP after I unfreeze the river. I'm willing to go a little slower to make certain units viable but I don't like going super grindy (also not a fan of LTC, but I think there are good things to be learned from them). A "brisk" pace lol

Edit: also I love using Silas because he is so easy and can be any physical class. Like 2-3 level ups on his join chapter let's him roll the rest of the next maps. He gets a level up even before Effie spawns! I don't understand why people use her :/

Yup. 4 pairs and utility. 5 and Xander of you're skipping kids or using Ophelia only. Dwyer is kinda finicy to use with Ophy as well (he gives a +mag statue though so it's value)

Not using Silias is hard.

Skipping Odin also opens dusts for SBow Nina sillyness. Not using Odin is hard though.

__________________________

Not orkoing the river mages on 8 gives more exp without slowing you down provided you get the finicy positioning right and pull the small fighter group by Flora (just freeze one of the fighters if-need-be). This let's Odin get 7 kills (210ish exp) + a ton of chip/combat exp in 3-4 turns for 8.xx (Along with 3 villages if you're using WElise with a res, str, and def tonic holding Effie or Arthur)

Edited by joshcja
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I'm guessing promotion for units is around 15-16 unless they're a stat backpack (lvl 10) or main combat units at 18-20? Hard was easy, so I'm guessing I need tier 2 lvl 15 skills sooner and more of them, compared to 2-3 levels of stats

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On 7/2/2018 at 2:37 AM, joshcja said:

Yup. 4 pairs and utility. 5 and Xander of you're skipping kids or using Ophelia only. Dwyer is kinda finicy to use with Ophy as well (he gives a +mag statue though so it's value)

Not using Silias is hard.

Skipping Odin also opens dusts for SBow Nina sillyness. Not using Odin is hard though.

__________________________

Not orkoing the river mages on 8 gives more exp without slowing you down provided you get the finicy positioning right and pull the small fighter group by Flora (just freeze one of the fighters if-need-be). This let's Odin get 7 kills (210ish exp) + a ton of chip/combat exp in 3-4 turns for 8.xx (Along with 3 villages if you're using WElise with a res, str, and def tonic holding Effie or Arthur)

4 pairs including Corrin + S partner? Aka 8 units + utility which include Corrin and S?

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8 hours ago, Centh said:

4 pairs including Corrin + S partner? Aka 8 units + utility which include Corrin and S?

Promote at 20. No reason not to.

4 pairs total. (8 adults + 5-6 kids + dancer + stavebots + prepromotes + utlity captures is more than you will ever need)

Edited by joshcja
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Thanks for all the help! I'm definitely noticing attack stance ends up being much much better in lunatic. I spent most of my time on hard using guard stance. Feels like this game takes the roles units end up being in more seriously since the various options can lead you to deadends

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@joshcja I feel like I'm getting kids way too late. I'm on Ch.17 and just unlocked Camilla!Sophie. I know some kids are asap (Dwyer, Percy come to mind), but should I be waiting for free promotions on kid units otherwise? Saves 2k, but I'm not sure if it's the best thing stats/skills wise.

Edited by Centh
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My Lunatic/Classic Conquest run has officially started. I just finished the first five chapters, and so far everything is going well. Corrin is +speed / -luck / cavalier / female / tall / light blue long hair and arrogant eyes that show she is not phased by the threat of death. No deaths yet (except Ryoma and Hans...dumb ally deaths, don't count), all enemies killed each chapter, and all or nearly all experience has gone to Corrin, Jakob, and Kaze. It will be interesting if this becomes the first FE playthrough I ever finish.

Rules for Playthrough: I'm not sure what the rules will be yet, but definitely No DLC / No Grind / No Other Castles.

Prologue - attacking needs nerf, difficulty = ()

Chapter 1 - Xander time, difficulty = ()

Chapter 2 - camp chokes in the middle, let Gunter tank Kaze, exercise patience since you get so much healing, difficulty = (*)

Chapter 3 - paired Gunter behind Corrin, nearly unstoppable duo on this chapter. Didn't use dragon veins. difficulty = (*)

Chapter 4 - paired Rinkah behind Corrin, rushed north then east, after that used Corrin/Rinkah + Kaze to lure the enemies by the boss until they were dead, then finished off the boss. difficulty = (**)

Chapter 5 - paired Rinkah behind Kaze. Used Kaze, Azura, Sakura to slay mages on the right side while Corrin ran around killing enemies on the left side, including the doubled wyrmslayer foe. Rather disorganized and tricky at times, but not too bad once you realize Kaze's potential. difficulty = (***)

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Have you tried the no DV strat for chapter 2? I personally find the first 6 chapters annoying, so I use whatever to make them faster.

Edited by Centh
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Hi Centh. I might have tried to beat Chapter 2 without using the DV once or twice, but it seemed rather tricky to me so I just used the standard strategy in the end.

 

Chapter 6 - I let Xander stall against Ryoma by just sitting there and using an elixir if necessary. Meanwhile I went ahead and cleared out the other units whilst funneling experience points into Corrin and Jakob. Easy chapter since there are so few units and it's so short. Difficulty = (*)

Chapter 7 - My only preparation was purchasing one HP tonic for Jakob. I immediately focused on clearing away the enemies in the top area while reinforcements tried their hardest to make their way safely to the top as well while enemies streamed into the middle area.. Rushing to the top area might not have been the best strategy, but it did work (barely), and once my units were all secure I just used different characters (such as Effie or Corrin+Dragonstone) to tank the choke point and kill the boss / rest of the mob. Arthur became a backpack after his first big hit. It was important for me to get Corrin to level 10 by the end of this chapter. Difficulty = (**)

 

Now I'm thinking about using a heart seal on Corrin and then moving on to Paralogue 1, but I'm not sure yet. It's my first time playing through this game so I'm not sure what the strongest castle/team management strategies are.

Edited by expshare
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First two heart seals go to Corrin, Bowzu, Elise, Odin, or Jakob. Or save one or two for something else you've got planned. Imo Jakob is great to keep as Butler. You've already got Silas and having a good 1-2 6 move unit with speed pair up bonuses is great. Using a partner seal off of Corrin or Elise is better if you really want to class change him (Malig knight is great). It frees up the early heart seals. I personally find Bowzu underwhelming. Odin needs two heart seals for sorc+vantage silliness, so it's requires two. You get two more from the shop after beating ch 13 though, which is still enough time to get him vantage and back to sorc/dm for Ophelia's chapter around 14/15, which nets her more levels from her chapter. Wyvern Elise is surprisingly good. Forge her a bronze axe and give her skill tonics. She doubles easily, has early flight, and ramps up to be a bulky fast Malig knight with a bolt axe chewing through everything. #waytoomuchinfo

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That's some good information. It's surprisingly difficult to find team management guides. I used my first heart seal on Corrin, which probably isn't optimal. Now I can't use the dragonstone as a secondary weapon, but maybe the payoff lies later. Wyvern Elise does sound really cool...I should have gone with that lol. Maybe I'll try it yet.

I finally got around to playing some more.

Paralogue 1 - The only trick to this one is getting to Mozu before she is killed. There isn't much time to get to her, so go south as quickly as you are able to. Send one unit straight to her if necessary, as long as it can survive. After that it's just cleanup duty. Difficulty = (*)

Chapter 8 - It seemed very difficult to get to any of the villages in time other than the one that starts right next to your team, so I just played defensively. Defending against the waves of enemies was the hardest part of this chapter, but it could be done with the right setup. I turtled by the first village and set my units up around the choke-point below it. Axe users and mages came swarming through that choke point and I just made sure that my defensive unit was bulky overall and that my unit wouldn't kill everything in a single counterattack. Originally I had lost once or twice due to my counterattacks allowing the enemy units to keep swarming in and damaging my defensive unit. Anyway, once I had dismantled the swarms with choke-point micro I went ahead and went north then east, slowly luring and killing everything in my path. Unfortunately towards the end I blundered by putting Odin too close to an axe user that I thought was out of range, so he's dead now...my first death. I was going to sell his equipment and use him for pairing, but I just accepted his death and moved on so that I wouldn't have to reset yet again. I know this choice is a lost opportunity for my team budget, but overall he was probably the least important character for me and I had planned to bench him. That isn't to say that I don't recognize his potential, but just that I wasn't planning on investing in him for this playthrough. The boss itself was a pushover. I'm glad this chapter killed me a few times because it taught me how to properly micro a choke-point. Unfortunately I could only save one village. Saving villages would make this chapter more challenging, but just micro the spawn location choke-point until it's safe to pushout otherwise. Difficulty = (**)

Chapter 9 - I bought 4 HP tonics for my main fighters and 500 gold on heals just as a replenishment for Elise. I've built a Mess Hall, Dusk Armory, Staff Store, and a Prison so far. I've been building up supports and sending Jakob to the private quarters whenever I can. I tried Invasion 1 but was utterly destroyed, so I decided it would be better to go straight to Chapter 9. I paired Arthur with Silas for strength/speed, Effie with Corrin for strength/defense, Nyx with Elise for no real reason, and Mozu with Niles for skill/luck. Jakob and Azura were left unpaired. I used Azura to activate the dragon vein and my army broke the wall at the bottom entrance to the fortress. I let the enemy medic debuff me 4 times just so I wouldn't have to deal with the debuffs from it later on, then I let Corrin and Jakob inch forward to lure enemy units bit by bit. I gave Niles the kills whenever possible, followed by Silas or Jakob, and Corrin last if necessary. Once I lured the enemies near the boss a horde of reinforcements poured in through the stair locations. I didn't have enough brute force to take out the reinforcements in a single turn without losing someone the next turn, so I migrated my army to the rightmost area where I did more choke-point micro. After cleaning up the reinforcements I went ahead and cleaned up everything else with relative ease until only the boss was left. I tried to capture the boss with Niles, but unfortunately Corrin decided to pull out her dragon crit or whatever it is called, so she got the experience. Chapter 9 was mainly only difficult because one mistake meant a reset, but that's how it goes in classic mode. Difficulty = (**)

 

Now my team consists of Niles, Corrin, Silas, Jakob, Elise, and Azura, with the rest used for pair-ups (Arthur, Effie, Mozu, Nyx). Everyone in my main lineup so far is around level 10 - 13 other than Azura (level 3 or 4). So far so good, but I hear that Chapter 10 can be challenging. Before I begin that chapter I need to decide what to do with a heart seal I got from chapter 9 though. Making Elise into a Wyvern Rider sounds very cool, but I am debating it some because I like having a mounted healer, especially because I use Jakob a lot for support and offense (although he definitely does some healing work too). I would like to have about 1.5 healers, and Jakob counts as about half a healer, so that's where Elise as a Troubadour is quite nice, but more offense could be nice too. We'll see. I'm optimistic about chapter 10, and I'm expecting the difficulty to be three stars (***), which would be the first three star chapter since Chapter 5. It might be harder, but we'll see. I think my team is doing pretty well overall. 

 

Edit: Well, I gave Chapter 10 a few tries, and it's rough.. I'm not close to giving up yet, but I'm definitely going to have to learn something new to pass this chapter. I just find it difficult to defend so many different locations when my team is quite small if you subtract away the number of pairings. 

Edited by expshare
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Ch.10 is there to teach you to play offensively. Think "outside the box". The box literally being the starting zone. Most of the units are fairly weak, so go slaughter them. Silas with VoF active, DK nyx, Jacob/Felicia/Corrin, Camilla. Beruka, Camilla, and Selena can take the archers on the right when they arrive. Or leave Arthur in range for Selena to get to the bastila. She with Arthur can double and kill everything on that side

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