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Micaiah vs. Nohr Corrin (spoilers)


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Micaiah or Nohrmui?  

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  1. 1. Who was the better character?



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Nazi Germany. Once they saw what exactly Hitler was up to, they turned off racism rather quickly. I would know, I was the sane man in the Wehrmacht, but as most are taught, I knew a little too much about gossip... and treason.

For obvious reasons, that's not a path Micaiah can go down.

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I don't think the reformation of Nazi Germany is a very good parallel. The occupation of Germany and denazification was to rebuild the country (lessons learned from the shitty treatment of Germany after WWI) . Begnion's occupation of Daein had just the opposite intention which was to further beat down an already defeated nation. By the time Micaiah liberated Daein, they were still recovering from the last war AND from a brutal occupation. They had no allies and had to spend all their attention on rebuilding the country on their own. All of Daein's leadership (save for a weak-willed boy king) were also wiped out so it's up to Micaiah to pull everything together. Does THIS sound like a country where social reform is first on the agenda?

Edit: They're also still under the thumb of Begnion and can hardly resist them, even if the blood pact didn't exist.

Edited by NekoKnight
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I just wanna point that the part about all the laguz racism that Micaiah accepts is surely because it helps to raise the moral of the army, as much as revered and adored she is in Daein it is very unfair to think that she can change how the people of Daein see laguz just after a war ended at the same time another one is approaching.

She is clearly against the racism when she expresses how happy she is that Sothe uses "Laguz" instead of "Sub-human", but being against it and being able to erase it are different things, is similar as to how she accepts the path Pelleas chose even if she does not agree with, she clearly states how she does not care how the world sees her as long as she can save Daein.

Micaiah makes much real decisions than Nohrcorrin who "defeats armies without killing anyone", heck she is more realistic than a good portion of characters, the part when she almosts sets ablaze the apostle's army really surprised me the first time I played the game, instead of the typical lord that worries about being good and all that, she uses a much more real way to approach a war, it is not that I liked her using that strategy or way to do things, but that I could understand why she did it.

To the defense of Nohrcorrin I would say that the overall characters in Fates are like that, the part when Zola basically captures the enemy royalty which means that you could end the war,but Nohr Royals are like "You cannot do that, that is bad, we need to get into a full war so we can capture and kill them", like Nohrcorrin is supposed to hate war and want to end it quickly, but when he has the chance he throws it away and begins into defeating armies without killing anyone, I could not decide if it was either more dumb or unrealistic.

Edited by Roxachronc
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So you're saying that Micaiah should have changed the people's minds about laguz, a process you think will take a lot more than six months, before freeing Daein from Begnion's Occupation.Does that include converting the soldiers and citizens in the work camps?

No, she should have gotten a more moderate occupation in. Also, I don't object to the soldiers being in the work camps, not after the shit they did. The ordinary citizens, though, are obviously unacceptable.

Nazi Germany. Once they saw what exactly Hitler was up to, they turned off racism rather quickly. I would know, I was the sane man in the Wehrmacht, but as most are taught, I knew a little too much about gossip... and treason.

Uh... sort of? They didn't see what Hitler was up to until after the war, and you could argue it was Denazification. But yeah, Germany is the obvious example.

I'd like you to give me a historical example of a nation drastically changing their bigoted views within the span of a few months after decades or centuries of bigotry, influence of a religious or political figure or no. Racism or any other form of bigotry are acceptable examples. I'm quite interested in reading your answer.

While admittedly that claim of mine was a mistake, I'm still of the opinion that for all of their racism Daein is still not as bad as Begnion, which actually had laguz slavery and genocide. The only difference is that Begnion's racism, at least at the time of the games, is heavily intermingled with their borderline religious fanaticism.

Plus, Gallia, a nation of laguz, played a major part in their subjugation during the Mad King's War and were very visible members of the Crimean Liberation Army.

Begnion, the game explicitly says, is trying its best to move past that. You still haven't said why we should think something to be true that the game doesn't say. Also, subjugation? SUBJUGATION? Daein waged a war of aggression against the entire damn continent. It got what it deserved.
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whew, took a back and came back to alot of very good replies.

with that said my joke of #laguzlivesmatter seem to not be a joke anymore, that's concerning.

spec ops the line was a pretty bad game for trying to make you feel bad for not giving the player any other option to be a dick in its most defining situations, but it had few good moments, this quote near the end being one of them.

"It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of them."

there's quite some strong men here, at least one in here.

I'm also disturbed by the notion of "one or few nobles did a bad thing so its entire country has to suffer for it." that i keep seeing, makes me wonder if anyone thinks japan should be destroyed and controlled because of evil acts they committed in the past, as an example, of course the concept of "sins of the father" is something I've always disapproved of.

Edited by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai
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Using Fates as a comparison point for anything is a really, really bad idea. In addition, nothing implied the Hoshido-Nohr rivalry to be based on race.

I suggest reading the topic title before making statements like this.

Also, Schrodinger's Daein: so exceptionally racist it's difficult to change in a few months, but no more racist than the rest of Tellius!

You should be able to recite off the top of your head when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued by President Lincoln. Now fast forward to today. Do you think there's certain American civilians that are still racist? Just because the government says "hey this isn't cool" doesn't mean that everyone's suddenly okay with it.

whew, took a back and came back to alot of very good replies.

with that said my joke of #laguzlivesmatter seem to not be a joke anymore, that's concerning.

spec ops the line was a pretty bad game for trying to make you feel bad for not giving the player any other option to be a dick in its most defining situations, but it had few good moments, this quote near the end being one of them.

"It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of them."

there's quite some strong men here, at least one in here.

I'm also disturbed by the notion of "one or few nobles did a bad thing so its entire country has to suffer for it." that i keep seeing, makes me wonder if anyone thinks japan should be destroyed and controlled because of evil acts they committed in the past, as an example, of course the concept of "sins of the father" is something I've always disapproved of.

Cut the passive-aggressiveness out.

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whew, took a back and came back to alot of very good replies.

with that said my joke of #laguzlivesmatter seem to not be a joke anymore, that's concerning.

spec ops the line was a pretty bad game for trying to make you feel bad for not giving the player any other option to be a dick in its most defining situations, but it had few good moments, this quote near the end being one of them.

"It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of them."

there's quite some strong men here, at least one in here.

I'm also disturbed by the notion of "one or few nobles did a bad thing so its entire country has to suffer for it." that i keep seeing, makes me wonder if anyone thinks japan should be destroyed and controlled because of evil acts they committed in the past, as an example, of course the concept of "sins of the father" is something I've always disapproved of.

No, but Japan should have been under military occupation in the 1950s, which it was. Let me use this parallel: yes, the Soviet Union were dicks when occupying Germany. Does that mean that Germany should have been released with no strings attached, under Hitlers son no less? Of course not. Also, it's hardly sins of the father three years on, and it's hardly the actions of a few nobles. Jill's conversations contradict that. I'm not saying that the people of Daein should suffer, just that a moderate occupation over a long period is needed to help them rejoin society.
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No, she should have gotten a more moderate occupation in. Also, I don't object to the soldiers being in the work camps, not after the shit they did. The ordinary citizens, though, are obviously unacceptable.

The citizens aren't any less racist than the soldiers. If you think social reform should be the number one priority, it follows that they should stay in the camps until they let go their anti-laguz sentiment, and that Sanaki is to blame for being too lenient on Daein.

If you think the moderate occupation should dissolve the work camps and work on reconstruction before tackling social reform, then I don't really see how that's different from what Micaiah did.

Unless you force Daein to reform, you'd have to restore their standard of living before any cultural change could occur.

Edited by Tricky Drick
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The citizens aren't any less racist than the soldiers. If you think social reform should be the number one priority, it follows that they should stay in the camps until they let go their anti-laguz sentiment, and that Sanaki is to blame for being too lenient on Daein.

If you think the moderate occupation should dissolve the work camps and work on reconstruction before tackling social reform, then I don't really see how that's different from what Micaiah did.

Unless you force Daein to reform, you'd have to restore their standard of living before any cultural change could occur.

No, the ordinary citizens didn't actually carry out the war. Not all soldiers, mind, just the ones guilty of war crimes. And this occupation should basically do the same thing that the American and British occupation of Germany did in RL: prepare Daein to be an independent state again. That means thoroughly purge the elite of the old regime, then do deAshnardification programs (I guess thats what they're called) while focusing on reconstruction at the same time. Micaiah pretty much does the opposite of this, making, of all people, the FE version of Joseph Mengele one of her advisors. So yes, this occupation would be different.

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You mean Izuka? In part 1, Micaiah opposes every one of his strategies and is appalled at his behaviour. How can you possibly think she would take him on as an advisor if he had stuck around?

If that's the only difference you can think of, it's safe to say the occupation would have gone exactly the same way.

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You mean Izuka? In part 1, Micaiah opposes every one of his strategies and is appalled at his behaviour. How can you possibly think she would take him on as an advisor if he had stuck around?

If that's the only difference you can think of, it's safe to say the occupation would have gone exactly the same way.

No, the occupation would also be with foreign troops, with a foreign governor. That means that it wouldn't be a Civil War in Daein, and the risk of failure is less. I also frankly don't care that she doesn't approve of Izuka's methods; the fact is that she doesn't do anything to him. I do, incidentally, consider Izuka to be far worse than Jarod. When she found out Pelleas liked Izuka, that is the time to consider what kind of a man she's fighting to put in charge of Daein, and possibly to cut her support for him.

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No, the occupation would also be with foreign troops, with a foreign governor. That means that it wouldn't be a Civil War in Daein, and the risk of failure is less. I also frankly don't care that she doesn't approve of Izuka's methods; the fact is that she doesn't do anything to him. I do, incidentally, consider Izuka to be far worse than Jarod. When she found out Pelleas liked Izuka, that is the time to consider what kind of a man she's fighting to put in charge of Daein, and possibly to cut her support for him.

Who exactly would be occupying Daein? Crimea CAN'T, that's why Begninon was doing it in the first place. The Laguz nations clearly aren't suitable. This leaves Begninon again, which is also a terrible idea looking at the last occupation, and had the new king sign a Blood Pact anyway, so why would they bother to occupy it if they control it anyway?

And Izuka's horrible actions, like creating the Feral Ones, came out at the late stages of the campaign. Prior to then, he was odd and unpleasant, but not the kind of man that you'd cut ties with another over their association with him. Especially since Izuka helped the campaign immensely, putting Pelleas into contact with Tauroneo and Daein's other senators and spread rumours about Micaiah and Pelleas working together to help inspire people to join the liberation army. For Pelleas, he provided a home, a mother, taught him about being a prince and provided a reason for Pelleas to live.

Micaiah knows Pelleas wants to save Daein. She has powers, she knows that. And until the Feral Ones revelation, which happened right at the end of the campagin, leaving because of Izuka would by stupid. And when they do find out, not only have they've already got most of Daein back, shortly afterwards the Occupation Army stands down on Sanaki's orders, 1-9 and 1-E happen, Pelleas gets crowned king and Izuka disappears, so it's not like there was a lot of time to do anything about him anyway. And should Micaiah really doom the liberation effort because one man is a horrible human being?

Edited by Shotguner159
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Who exactly would be occupying Daein? Crimea CAN'T, that's why Begninon was doing it in the first place. The Laguz nations clearly aren't suitable. This leaves Begninon again, which is also a terrible idea looking at the last occupation, and had the new king sign a Blood Pact anyway, so why would they bother to occupy it if they control it anyway?

And Izuka's horrible actions, like creating the Feral Ones, came out at the late stages of the campaign. Prior to then, he was odd and unpleasant, but not the kind of man that you'd cut ties with another over their association with him. Especially since Izuka helped the campaign immensely, putting Pelleas into contact with Tauroneo and Daein's other senators and spread rumours about Micaiah and Pelleas working together to help inspire people to join the liberation army. For Pelleas, he provided a home, a mother, taught him about being a prince and provided a reason for Pelleas to live.

Micaiah knows Pelleas wants to save Daein. She has powers, she knows that. And until the Feral Ones revelation, which happened right at the end of the campagin, leaving because of Izuka would by stupid. And when they do find out, not only have they've already got most of Daein back, shortly afterwards the Occupation Army stands down on Sanaki's orders, 1-9 and 1-E happen, Pelleas gets crowned king and Izuka disappears, so it's not like there was a lot of time to do anything about him anyway. And should Micaiah really doom the liberation effort because one man is a horrible human being?

Why shouldn't Begnion do it again? Just don't put the Senate in charge of the occupation. In any sensible government, the son of the King who just tried to take over the damn continent, supported by a good deal of said King's former generals, ascending to the throne violently should raise major alarm bells. At least an occupation should be installed to make sure he behaves. Yes, I know Pelleas isn't evil, but NO ONE ELSE KNOWS THAT. A second occupation demand, by Begnion, is entirely reasonable. And the reason why they'd want to occupy it is to ensure he doesn't try something. The issue is that Begnion basically unconditionally withdrew from Daein, which could cause a whole host of problems. If Begnion really wanted to they could easily crush the revolt.

As for Izuka, he had already tried to start shit with Maurim. That, essentially, is enough. And as I said before, if Pelleas is tacitly okay with Izuka doing this, this then is the time when Micaiah should be wondering if Daein under him will be any better off than before. And he is tacitly okay, because he doesn't respond to Izuka essentially attempting murder.

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Why shouldn't Begnion do it again? Just don't put the Senate in charge of the occupation. In any sensible government, the son of the King who just tried to take over the damn continent, supported by a good deal of said King's former generals, ascending to the throne violently should raise major alarm bells. At least an occupation should be installed to make sure he behaves. Yes, I know Pelleas isn't evil, but NO ONE ELSE KNOWS THAT. A second occupation demand, by Begnion, is entirely reasonable. And the reason why they'd want to occupy it is to ensure he doesn't try something. The issue is that Begnion basically unconditionally withdrew from Daein, which could cause a whole host of problems. If Begnion really wanted to they could easily crush the revolt.

As for Izuka, he had already tried to start shit with Maurim. That, essentially, is enough. And as I said before, if Pelleas is tacitly okay with Izuka doing this, this then is the time when Micaiah should be wondering if Daein under him will be any better off than before. And he is tacitly okay, because he doesn't respond to Izuka essentially attempting murder.

You mean the Senate that controls Begnion after Part 1? Sephiran was meant to head up the Inspection team, but Lekain did it instead. Because they imprisoned Sanaki and Sephiran. Any occupation would be headed by the Senate, which doesn't need to occupy Daein because they control it through the Blood Pact. And the Occupation Army didn't withdraw, they were wiped out. The Liberation Army had taken back literally all of Daein bar Nevassa, and the soldiers there died fighting for Jarod.

And the Senate would know Pelleas wasn't evil, since Izuka worked for them. And the General Pelleas is closest to is Tauroneo, who sided against Ashnard, and one of the first parts of Daein to join the Liberation Army is Marado, who didn't side with Ashnard. Ashnard's people would all dead anyway, since he would've had them in Crimea with him.

And yes, he does try to start shit with Muarim. After 1-8. Which is after most of Daein has been liberated, and immediately afterwards Sanaki orders the Occupation Army to stand down, the celebration of which Micaiah leaves in 1-8, and the day after that is Jarod attacking Nevassa, after which is the day of Pelleas' coronation and Izuka leaving. She didn't exactly have a lot of time to do anything. And she knows that Pelleas wants what is best for Daein, because she used her powers on him. And Pelleas seemingly did a good job ruling, before Begnion invoked the Blood Pact.

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I second everything blah has been saying, can't say it better myself.

> Micaiah knows what Izuka is and she knows Pelleas wants to keep him by his side, and that he even misses him when he's gone.

> She knows the soldiers are excited about hunting the ''sub-humans''.

Yet she still says she doesn't want to let Pelleas or the soldiers down.

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I also frankly don't care that she doesn't approve of Izuka's methods; the fact is that she doesn't do anything to him.

She tells Pelleas to stop letting Izuka make decisions for him, and that's when Pelleas starts trying to exercise his authority over Izuka.

Bolded: Arguing about a VG character isn't really an important issue, but I hope you don't let confirmation bias cloud your judgment as a general rule.

And he is tacitly okay, because he doesn't respond to Izuka essentially attempting murder.

Pelleas: Everybody! Wait, please! Izuka clearly did a terrible thing to that

sub-hum--that laguz, I apologize. Tormod... I'm truly sorry. He will not

use the drug again. So, please... Try to forgive him...

Edited by Tricky Drick
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> Micaiah knows what Izuka is and she knows Pelleas wants to keep him by his side, and that he even misses him when he's gone.

> She knows the soldiers are excited about hunting the ''sub-humans''.

Ah yes, the former orphan misses the man who introduced him to his mother, provided a home, a reason to life, taught him how to be a prince, contacted people to legitimize his claim to the throne and helped raise the army that gave him his nation. Clearly she condemn him for liking the man. It's not like she read his mind and heart and knows that he wants what is best of Daein or anything.

The people of Daein, born into a country founded on the idea Laguz and Beorc aren't equals, fed vehement anti-Laguz propaganda since birth, who know that every Laguz nation helped Crimea defeat them in the last war, are racist. What a surprise. She should condemn them for not being as accepting as the people of Crimea, people born into a country founded on the idea that Laguz and Beorc aren't equals, who weren't fed anti-Laguz propaganda since birth, who's leadership attempted to foster good ties with the Laguz. It's not like Crimeans have ever tried to beat a Laguz to death because they were one, or that two years after the Laguz helped to win their country back and helped with the reconstruction, sub-human still comes first to the mouths of some citizens, or that some commoners think that Crimea should side with Begnion because Begnion is populated by Beorc and Gallia by the Laguz.

Daein clearly deserves to collapse because of those heinous crimes. Why, she should've let Begnion crush the country into nothingness. It deserves it after all, for being so horribly racist. If the people can't magically become not-racist, without all the things that led to Crimea start becoming such over, over a shorter period of time than Crimea, they shouldn't be allowed to have a country. That's completely fair.

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She tells Pelleas to stop letting Izuka make decisions for him, and that's when Pelleas starts trying to exercise his authority over Izuka.

Bolded: Arguing about a VG character isn't really an important issue, but I hope you don't let confirmation bias cloud your judgment as a general rule.

Pelleas: Everybody! Wait, please! Izuka clearly did a terrible thing to that

sub-hum--that laguz, I apologize. Tormod... I'm truly sorry. He will not

use the drug again. So, please... Try to forgive him...

Ooh! Ooh! Here's what Pelleas should have said:

Pelleas: What? Guards, arrest this sick fuck, now.

I mean, seriously, this isn't a sorry, won't happen again crime. I meant, by the way, a real response, instead of what is functionally "eh".

You mean the Senate that controls Begnion after Part 1? Sephiran was meant to head up the Inspection team, but Lekain did it instead. Because they imprisoned Sanaki and Sephiran. Any occupation would be headed by the Senate, which doesn't need to occupy Daein because they control it through the Blood Pact. And the Occupation Army didn't withdraw, they were wiped out. The Liberation Army had taken back literally all of Daein bar Nevassa, and the soldiers there died fighting for Jarod.

And the Senate would know Pelleas wasn't evil, since Izuka worked for them. And the General Pelleas is closest to is Tauroneo, who sided against Ashnard, and one of the first parts of Daein to join the Liberation Army is Marado, who didn't side with Ashnard. Ashnard's people would all dead anyway, since he would've had them in Crimea with him.

And yes, he does try to start shit with Muarim. After 1-8. Which is after most of Daein has been liberated, and immediately afterwards Sanaki orders the Occupation Army to stand down, the celebration of which Micaiah leaves in 1-8, and the day after that is Jarod attacking Nevassa, after which is the day of Pelleas' coronation and Izuka leaving. She didn't exactly have a lot of time to do anything. And she knows that Pelleas wants what is best for Daein, because she used her powers on him. And Pelleas seemingly did a good job ruling, before Begnion invoked the Blood Pact.

Micaiah doesn't know any of this, though. She doesn't know what the Senate is planning. Oh, and do you know how long it takes to arrest someone? Well, you can put someone under arrest in the time it took you to read this, especially if you're the King.

Ah yes, the former orphan misses the man who introduced him to his mother, provided a home, a reason to life, taught him how to be a prince, contacted people to legitimize his claim to the throne and helped raise the army that gave him his nation. Clearly she condemn him for liking the man. It's not like she read his mind and heart and knows that he wants what is best of Daein or anything.

The people of Daein, born into a country founded on the idea Laguz and Beorc aren't equals, fed vehement anti-Laguz propaganda since birth, who know that every Laguz nation helped Crimea defeat them in the last war, are racist. What a surprise. She should condemn them for not being as accepting as the people of Crimea, people born into a country founded on the idea that Laguz and Beorc aren't equals, who weren't fed anti-Laguz propaganda since birth, who's leadership attempted to foster good ties with the Laguz. It's not like Crimeans have ever tried to beat a Laguz to death because they were one, or that two years after the Laguz helped to win their country back and helped with the reconstruction, sub-human still comes first to the mouths of some citizens, or that some commoners think that Crimea should side with Begnion because Begnion is populated by Beorc and Gallia by the Laguz.

Daein clearly deserves to collapse because of those heinous crimes. Why, she should've let Begnion crush the country into nothingness. It deserves it after all, for being so horribly racist. If the people can't magically become not-racist, without all the things that led to Crimea start becoming such over, over a shorter period of time than Crimea, they shouldn't be allowed to have a country. That's completely fair.

Not what I'm saying. Daein should be occupied. Then it should be given Independance. No annexation involved. In addition, a strong leader should be able to see when someone is objectively evil. I hope if someone close to me pulled what Izuka did I'd recognize them as scum.

Also, Pol Pot wanted the best for his country. So did Mao and Hitler. "Wanting the best" isn't enough to ensure that someone's definition of best is actually desirable. Hell, Ashnard wanted the best for Daein.

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Micaiah doesn't know any of this, though. She doesn't know what the Senate is planning. Oh, and do you know how long it takes to arrest someone? Well, you can put someone under arrest in the time it took you to read this, especially if you're the King.

Micaiah was also raised as a commoner. She wouldn't know how the interplay of countries is supposed to go. And even if she did, why would she advocate to her countrymen "Y'know those people who literally tried to destroy Daein as a country? Let's let them rule us again despite all the work we've done in putting Pelleas on the throne!"? That sounds like a terrible idea to me. And the Senate would still be in charge of sending someone, and why would they bother when they control Daein anyway?

Pelleas is not an objective man regarding Izuka, which is understandable given everything Izuka did for him. He also likely didn't actually care about Muarim, he says that because Micaiah is upset. Pelleas uses the word sub-human frequently, and he was raised in Daein. He's racist against them, Izuka likely didn't actually commit a crime in his eyes. Daein's racism reform is likely on Micaiah's agenda after the country gets into a proper shape again. I think the standard of living the people of Daein has matters far more than their personal beliefs. Or should she say "You must live in squalor until you accept the Laguz as equals"?

Not what I'm saying. Daein should be occupied. Then it should be given Independance. No annexation involved. In addition, a strong leader should be able to see when someone is objectively evil. I hope if someone close to me pulled what Izuka did I'd recognize them as scum.

Also, Pol Pot wanted the best for his country. So did Mao and Hitler. "Wanting the best" isn't enough to ensure that someone's definition of best is actually desirable. Hell, Ashnard wanted the best for Daein.

Why should it be occupied? They already have their people in charge of the various territories, the new King has an advisor who served the King before Ashnard, and the reconstruction was going well before the Senate threatened to invoke the Blood Pact so it's not like Daein gaining independence was terrible for Daein.

And if someone who you owe almost literally everything to tried to make an animal into a weapon of war, you'd recognise them as scum? It's clearly not humane, but its not like, in Pelleas' eyes, he was doing it to a creature that matters. Just a filthy sub-human.

Fortunately, Micaiah looked into the future after meeting Pelleas, and saw plenty of visions of hope, meaning not only did she know he wanted what's best for Daein, but that him being in charge would eventually lead the country into a better place. Which it did, as Micaiah gets the crown at Pelleas' entreaty and leads Daein into an era of prosperity.

And Ashnard didn't care about Daein. At all. All he wanted was a world war.

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It's worth noting that the Begnion occupation might have gone better if it wasn't for the machinations of Sephiran (that Lekain believed were his own) sabotaging it from the beginning. I recall it being stated that he sent the worst the army could provide, in order to provoke the revolution, allowing Daein to be able to participate in the world war. So in-universe, Begnion wouldn't want to re-occupy order for their plan to go through. So, in-universe, even if re-occupation would have realistically been the best choice, Begnion's leadership (aside from the imprisoned Sanaki) had no reason to consider it. Also note that game does acknowledge that Pelleas taking the throne through violent revolution doesn't sit well or get ignored by everyone. Part 2 even kicks off with the Crimean nobility grumbling about how Daein is raising those major red flags.

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It's worth noting that the Begnion occupation might have gone better if it wasn't for the machinations of Sephiran (that Lekain believed were his own) sabotaging it from the beginning. I recall it being stated that he sent the worst the army could provide, in order to provoke the revolution, allowing Daein to be able to participate in the world war. So in-universe, Begnion wouldn't want to re-occupy order for their plan to go through. So, in-universe, even if re-occupation would have realistically been the best choice, Begnion's leadership (aside from the imprisoned Sanaki) had no reason to consider it. Also note that game does acknowledge that Pelleas taking the throne through violent revolution doesn't sit well or get ignored by everyone. Part 2 even kicks off with the Crimean nobility grumbling about how Daein is raising those major red flags.

Micaiah was also raised as a commoner. She wouldn't know how the interplay of countries is supposed to go. And even if she did, why would she advocate to her countrymen "Y'know those people who literally tried to destroy Daein as a country? Let's let them rule us again despite all the work we've done in putting Pelleas on the throne!"? That sounds like a terrible idea to me. And the Senate would still be in charge of sending someone, and why would they bother when they control Daein anyway?

Pelleas is not an objective man regarding Izuka, which is understandable given everything Izuka did for him. He also likely didn't actually care about Muarim, he says that because Micaiah is upset. Pelleas uses the word sub-human frequently, and he was raised in Daein. He's racist against them, Izuka likely didn't actually commit a crime in his eyes. Daein's racism reform is likely on Micaiah's agenda after the country gets into a proper shape again. I think the standard of living the people of Daein has matters far more than their personal beliefs. Or should she say "You must live in squalor until you accept the Laguz as equals"?

Why should it be occupied? They already have their people in charge of the various territories, the new King has an advisor who served the King before Ashnard, and the reconstruction was going well before the Senate threatened to invoke the Blood Pact so it's not like Daein gaining independence was terrible for Daein.

And if someone who you owe almost literally everything to tried to make an animal into a weapon of war, you'd recognise them as scum? It's clearly not humane, but its not like, in Pelleas' eyes, he was doing it to a creature that matters. Just a filthy sub-human.

Fortunately, Micaiah looked into the future after meeting Pelleas, and saw plenty of visions of hope, meaning not only did she know he wanted what's best for Daein, but that him being in charge would eventually lead the country into a better place. Which it did, as Micaiah gets the crown at Pelleas' entreaty and leads Daein into an era of prosperity.

And Ashnard didn't care about Daein. At all. All he wanted was a world war.

Daein's new King, everybody! That Micaiah is perfectly fine with installing! I mean, honestly I feel like you just argued against Micaiah. And Daein should be occupied because in the eyes of the international community they shouldn't be trusted. Look at it from the eyes of literally everyone else. Part of being a leader is doing things that piss off your people. If you can't control them you shouldn't be in charge. A leader, especially not a King, shouldn't have to be at the mercy of the masses, especially when they're a bunch of racist fucks. And, finally, all Micaiah needs to do is oppose racism for now. The game, though, gives no indication she openly opposed racism. And, finally, I hardly think it's Pelleas leading Daeon to prosperity if Micaiah basically usurped the throne.

Edit: And then the game demonizes Ludveck for daring to worry that there is a problem. Don't get me wrong, Ludveck's an asshole, but he's right here.

Edited by blah the Prussian
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You know, it's pretty interesting - and refreshing - to see a discussion about Fire Emblem politics considering we got none of it in Awakening or Fates. It's definitely something the series should bring back, along with actual in-game strategy discussions.

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Daein's new King, everybody! That Micaiah is perfectly fine with installing! I mean, honestly I feel like you just argued against Micaiah. And Daein should be occupied because in the eyes of the international community they shouldn't be trusted. Look at it from the eyes of literally everyone else. Part of being a leader is doing things that piss off your people. If you can't control them you shouldn't be in charge. A leader, especially not a King, shouldn't have to be at the mercy of the masses, especially when they're a bunch of racist fucks. And, finally, all Micaiah needs to do is oppose racism for now. The game, though, gives no indication she openly opposed racism. And, finally, I hardly think it's Pelleas leading Daeon to prosperity if Micaiah basically usurped the throne.

Edit: And then the game demonizes Ludveck for daring to worry that there is a problem. Don't get me wrong, Ludveck's an asshole, but he's right here.

A king who wants whats best for Daein, and has visions of the future showing that him being in charge will eventual be a good thing. So what if he's racist, she can work on that after Daein's recovered, especially since with Izuka gone, Pelleas will rely on Tauroneo and Micaiah's opinion on things more.

The only country capable of occupying Daein is the country not not only just tried to end the country in their last occupation, but doesn't care about what Daein does because they control it anyway. Goldoa gives no shits, and the other Laguz nations are more concerned with Rafiel's revealations. This leaves Crimea as the only nation who cares, which did send someone to investigate the new king and regime, is about to enter civil war, and doesn't have the resources to occupy it.

And really, the fact that the people of Daein are racist means they deserve to live in squalor? And of course Micaiah wasn't trying to get rid of racist beliefs. She was more concerned with the fact that Nevassa was destroyed, and needs rebuilding. Crimea's attitude toward Laguz is evidence that changing Daein's mind will take time, and the rebuilding homes for Daein's citizens is more time critical. Making attempts to remove the deep-rooted racism can wait until Daein is back on it's feet.

And how did she usurp it, when Pelleas abdicated bevause he knew he wasn't Ashnard's son and asked her to rule? It's not that Pelleas led Daein to prosperity, but that his rule leads to Micaiah doing such. Micaiah's visions were just further forward than she thought.

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A king who wants whats best for Daein, and has visions of the future showing that him being in charge will eventual be a good thing. So what if he's racist, she can work on that after Daein's recovered, especially since with Izuka gone, Pelleas will rely on Tauroneo and Micaiah's opinion on things more.

The only country capable of occupying Daein is the country not not only just tried to end the country in their last occupation, but doesn't care about what Daein does because they control it anyway. Goldoa gives no shits, and the other Laguz nations are more concerned with Rafiel's revealations. This leaves Crimea as the only nation who cares, which did send someone to investigate the new king and regime, is about to enter civil war, and doesn't have the resources to occupy it.

And really, the fact that the people of Daein are racist means they deserve to live in squalor? And of course Micaiah wasn't trying to get rid of racist beliefs. She was more concerned with the fact that Nevassa was destroyed, and needs rebuilding. Crimea's attitude toward Laguz is evidence that changing Daein's mind will take time, and the rebuilding homes for Daein's citizens is more time critical. Making attempts to remove the deep-rooted racism can wait until Daein is back on it's feet.

And how did she usurp it, when Pelleas abdicated bevause he knew he wasn't Ashnard's son and asked her to rule? It's not that Pelleas led Daein to prosperity, but that his rule leads to Micaiah doing such. Micaiah's visions were just further forward than she thought.

She has no guarentee whatsoever that Pelleas will listen to her. How long would she obey his commands? Because she doesn't just tolerate the racism, she outright goes along with it in Chapter I forget- whichever one was the Laguz hunt one. And I am aware Begnion didn't want to occupy Daein. I'm saying they should have reoccupied it. And I am also not saying they should have lived in squalor, nor am I saying rebuilding isn't more important. I am saying, though, that it isn't hard at all for Micaiah to put in a good word for the Laguz. Actually right after the liberation is the best time, since her popularity will be the highest it will ever be, probably. Of course, King Pelleas isn't making that easy. Regretting supporting him now, Micaiah? Finally, the point I was getting across with the usurpation part is that Pelleas was unseeded for Daein's prosperity. It would be the same if Micaiah became Queen from the get go, so she shouldn't support him.
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