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Smash 4, Character Discussion Revised (#35 Pikachu)


Jedi
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Jedi, why'd you already stop the Pacman discussion? I found this awesome channel with advanced Pac-Tech!

Well it was kind of dead, with only 2 replies... Thanks for the new info though.

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Palutena's strength comes from mixing up at the right times.

Her grounded frame data is garbage, so her neutral mostly consists of spacing bairs and fairs. Her jab is good in that it's very disjointed and leads to, on most characters, a standing grab, on some characters, a dash grab, on most characters, a dash attack, and on all characters at high %s, a nair.

She relies on mixups and 50/50 tricks to kill. Most notably:

dthrow -> uair is a 50/50 for a small range just before/to after 100% on most characters. It's guaranteed at kill %s on Rob/other large characters. At higher %s, just jump out and be ready to react to a dj uair.

jab -> uair/some smash 50/50s at high %'s. If you just out she can follow with a uair, if you ad into the ground, she can smash that. If you do nothing, at high enough %s, she can smash that.

dthriw-> rar bair is real and will kill towards the side of the stage. Though, she can't reach you if you get thrown right at the edge.

Other than that, her kill options are

bair - starts killing at about 140 from a bit past midstage

nair - kills at around 130 if you DI it up, kills at 110ish offstage if you get flung outwards. DI it in and stage tech it for max survivability

DA - kills around 130-135ish with rage.

uthrow - kills around 145 with rage.

You don't need me to tell you to respect the bair, but don't not-punish it. Force them to mess up their spacing and capitalize on it.

Autoreticle is surprisingly safe on blocks/as long as the projectiles come out. However, if you spot dodge the targeting, that's a free punish.

Reflect is also safer than it seems, because of the windbox. It makes the villager matchup very good for Palutena as villager striggles to get past it.

Counter is f10 and unsafe on hit until about 40%

You beat Palutena by messing up her spacing, being wary of tomahawk grabs, and not letting her kill you until 140% Her weaknesses are that she has trouble getting out of juggles (warp canceling is her best tool) and she doesn't have any counter breakers, especially if you're in front of her (no bair).

Oh yeah, also no hitbox on warp so if she's expended her double jump so she can't dj uair, throw out a hitbox and 2frame that teleport.

edit: stuff I forgot:

jab -> utilt is guaranteed if you're spaced too close to her. utilt in general is good for reading normal getup, and it kills (125-130ish with rage).

utilt is actually pretty good. She bends down SUPER low so it's a good anti-air

dtilt isn't awful and is kinda hard to punish.

ftilt is awful and if it's used, it's probably a misinput

Edited by Crazycolorz5
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utilt kills at 125? I actually didn't know that, or heck alot of the things you put. Who do you think her best mu is?

Also Warp Canceling is so much fun to do, I was messing with it the other day.

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Also I figure it's better to contribute late rather than never for Olimar, since he is my 3rd character.

Olimar's fsmash is really hard to approach through, but keep in mind that 1) it's not very strong at the tip, 2) he can't do it for a short time after throwing all the pikmin, and 3) he gets wrecked by reflectors on the pikmin.

Thus his best kill options are a point blank red (or purple) smash, red or purple backair, or a blue uthrow (kills at about 140 with rage).

Most of his attacks also have item priority (namely his aerials), so they'll get beated out my any hitbox.

His upB is very mobile when he has no pikmin, and he can do an aerial out of it.

Now, tricks you shouldn't fall for:

1) His dsmash catches the 2 frame. Don't get hit by it, idiot.

2) landing nair -> usmash works only if you aren't ready to do something out of it. Floaties should air dodge, fast fallers should fall and shield (I think). I just know that it doesn't work but can catch many people.

His game plan, if you're fighting a good enough Olimar and one that isn't just spamming sideB/fsmash, is:

> Keep your pikmin management/next to pluck to try to keep one white or purple on you at a time.

> When you have a white, try to either use a throw combo to get it on the opponent or just get it on them somehow. Once that happens, pressure them and if they try to get it off, punish it with a combo.

> When you have a purple, use the increased power of having a purple sideB to take stage control and pressure them from a safe distance. Use a read to get a kill early with a purple smash.

> If you can rack up enough damage with your white and purple sideB, but can't seal a kill, blue uthrow should be an option in mind, but don't fish for it.

I've seen most Olimars land with nair after upBing.

Olimar's weaknesses are getting juddled/edgeguarded, due to his lack of a hitbox on his UpB, and his lack of priority on his aerials, and his floaty-ish fall speed. He doesn't really have options to cover people right below him other than ff nair.

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utilt kills at 125? I actually didn't know that, or heck alot of the things you put. Who do you think her best mu is?

Also Warp Canceling is so much fun to do, I was messing with it the other day.

Maybe a bit later, and that's with rage. Many of my numbers are probably skewed because I know them for Rosalina, lol.

Palutena's best matchup.... probably Villager. You can keep her out pretty indefinitely thanks to the windbox on reflect. The only thing is is that if VIllager does get in, it's hard to get her off of you.

Personally, I just use Palutena against Zelda and Puff, since Rosa covers most other MUs. I did counterpick Palutena on a villager this past weekly though.

Palutena's worst matchup is Fox, because non of your jab->something combos works since he can fall and shield on most of them. It's just awful.

I just asked a friend and they said that they think Palu's best MUs are Vilalger or DK. (I can see DK since dthrow uair is guaranteed for a loooong time)

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Alright, since it's been awhile, lets move onward.

Peach.png
Framedata of Princesses

Ah Peach, my old main from Melee, here she is back again, with a nasty combo game to boot, she can chain several moves together, be it dthrow to bair, ftilt to uair, etc. She has quite the amount of options, as per usual you can float off the ground by holding down when you jump.

Peach, due to her vareity of options, including a few projectiles can really pressure lots of characters, if she gets in your zone, you'd better get her out of it, or you're gonna be in a royal pain, she combos people insanely hard, and that means heavies have it even worse vs her if she gets close. Although she is fairly light so she isn't the hardest to ko, she also has several off stage gimping options thanks to her turnips, floating, etc.

Disjoints seem to be her main weakness, if she can't get into the zone she needs to get into, her huge pressure game vanishes and she has to flounder around waiting for a chance, although considering she does have some good options for that too, its not too bad for her, quite a number of people at my local think Peach is one of the most slept on characters in the game, also in Japan there was an infamous infinite found that was eventually patched out.

Opinions on Peach?

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Peach can't deal with speed. Falcon destroys her because of this. I don't know how Marcina does against her since approximately six people play her. She offers great movement options with the use of float and also boasts low risk hit confirms from float. In general, dair is the number one attack to avoid, but nair and bair are scary too. Her turnips aren't very scary simce you can plqy with them too or avoid them altogether, as they are slow and don't give much damage if they hit. DO NOT EDGEGUARD HER FROM THE FRONT NEAR THE LEDGE. PARASOL HAS INSANE BKB AND DISJOINT AND WILL STAGE SPIKE KILL YOU AT 0.

I miss her wobbling.

Edited by Comet
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This one time I found a peach player on for glory, and they were literally the best player ive ever played, they were doing a whole bunch of footstools with turnips for easy 50%+ combos, it was actually crazy.

As for actually playing her uhhhhh I hate her fair it's really strong and pretty safe, dair eats shields and is combo starter.

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Peach can't deal with speed. Falcon destroys her because of this. I don't know how Marcina does against her since approximately six people play her.

I feel like the matchup is in Marth/Lucina's favor, because disjoints.

Does Peach have a bad matchup against Bowser? Just wondering, because... canon.

That one could go either way, imo.

This one time I found a peach player on for glory, and they were literally the best player ive ever played, they were doing a whole bunch of footstools with turnips for easy 50%+ combos, it was actually crazy.

I wish I could do that. I'm a fraud Peach main, apologies everyone.

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I wish I could do that. I'm a fraud Peach main, apologies everyone.

I can't do Ike's 70% footstool combos so :P:

I guess we both need to learn footstool consistency!

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's been awhile but lets move on

Pikachu.png
Frame data

Pikachu is an annoying little bugger, one of the fastest characters in the game with a pretty great combo & gimp game to boot, two projectiles (kinda) and a pretty solid grab game, all lend him great benefits in competitive play, I don't know too much about his finer details, but I think of him as being some weird inbetween of Sheik and Mario, has a little bit of everything and combos like crazy, but like Sheik has some hard time actually securing the kill at times.

Pikachu is a really irritating MU for any slower or bigger character, but those with good disjoint can usually outrange him pretty hard (I've found anyways).

I'd like some people who know what they are talking about with him though to make up for myself, but general opinions on him are nice as well.

Edited by Jedi
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he's small and annoying. i will never play falcon against him willingly, even though i'm already switching my main to marth...

oh and marth's down throw kill confirms at around 100% on pika.

Edited by Comet
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  • 2 weeks later...

Pikachu is one of the strongest characters offstage. He has a throw to kill confirm, making holding shield dangerous. His fair is very good, and dair autocancels. Being able to hit away his fair (e.g. with Marcina's fair or something) seems critical. Punishing quick attack based on habits is also key, and which is why it should get easier to beat Pikachus in longer sets (as you learn their QA habits).

So... next character time?

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