What the hell is Marvel thinking? Spoiler for the comics

[Sadisticorc]

My friend was freaking out about this yesterday at lunch. Shes a marvel fangirl, and I swear she was ready to rip heads. I dont think ive ever seen someone eat that angrily before.

I havent read the comic in question, but this seems to me like controversy baiting. Its kinda sickening to have just seen the 75 years Cap special, with all sorts of people with relations of some sort to the good captain (actors, comic writers, etc.) and how his virtue and need to seek his American ideals influenced them and gave them courage.

Now he's a nazi.

GG Marvel.

[Augestein]

I say give the guy a chance. It can be really good if they do it right (don't ask me how though). We shouldn't be jumping the gun on the first issue. Just prepare the noose and if this all goes to hell we know who to hang.

The only way this could be done right is if he was pretending to work for Hydra the whole time. It's quite literally the only way. In which case, it's still stupid because he'll just reveal "haha! But I was a double, DOUBLE agent!" Stuff like this is absurd, and it doesn't do anything but turn people away even more if they weren't already.

[ErrantDShepherd]

The only way this could be done right is if he was pretending to work for Hydra the whole time. It's quite literally the only way. In which case, it's still stupid because he'll just reveal "haha! But I was a double, DOUBLE agent!" Stuff like this is absurd, and it doesn't do anything but turn people away even more if they weren't already.

Let's face it, this is likely to be a gong show no matter how they do it. :\

Either by seriously alienating Captain America fans who enjoy the character's relative consistency/current portrayals ala the Marvel MCU and the last writer, or by just not living up to the hype/being retconned like everyone is predicting.

...This is literally making no narrative sense in my mind right now though tbh. There was no way for Hydra to know that Steve Rogers would be given the Super Soldier serum, him being an agent from the start due to his mommy... it's all too 'convenient' in my mind currently.

...and yeah seriously goes against 75 years worth of portrayal... but hey #SoEdgy. :|

Edited May 26, 2016 by ErrantShepherd

[Dark Sage]

I guess they weren't content with completely ruining Spider-Man anymore, they have to drag down Captain America too.

I'm Jewish and this is slightly offensive to me; I watch Nazisploitation films, but their tastelessness is deliberate and they're way too campy and ridiculous to take seriously. This lacks either redeeming quality.

[Water Mage]

Jack Kirby himself is Jewish, so what really amazes me is how they are spitting on his grave for doing this.

Seriously, this is offensive to the man's legacy.

The whole point of Captain America is how much of a good guy he is.

And if this sticks, what's going to happen to all Captain America merchandise? Haven't Nick realized how much money he is putting in jeopardy?!

Even if they reset this, Captain America will now forever be haunted by this.

This could possibly ruin the Captain America brand forever.

And I really curious of what Stan Lee thinks of this. He can't possibly approve of this.

[Thor Odinson]

I don't know what Stan thinks but Chris Evans certainly disapproves.

[Loki Laufeyson]

W o w.

Like what in the....where did this even come from? What the hell are these writers trying to prove? "Oh lets make a pretty squeaky clean character all edgy for the sake of edge and omg its so unexpected!"

No, fuck off. No. Steve Rogers is a figure that represents honor and is consistent with that for many decades. This not only derails the character, but derails the entire concept of Captain America.

Ugghhhh

[Water Mage]

You know, this makes me wonder.

Does the people that wants Cap to be gay, do the still want it?

I mean, considering the fact the apparently he was a nazi all along, I'm not sure if people want the guy who betrayed everyone, the american who betrayed his country and that worked with the nazis, the man who's probably going to spit on the face of everyone who idolized him, to represent gays in the Marvel Universe.

[Alertcircuit]

Not to mention he's a character created by Jewish people to show opposition to the Nazis. Making Cap himself a Nazi is just actually tasteless. Even if he's brainwashed or whatever, they drew out that shock reveal knowing it would make headlines. They threw out what Cap stands for for money and publicity, and I'm a little disgusted by it, until they explain themselves further.

You know, this makes me wonder.
Does the people that wants Cap to be gay, do the still want it?
I mean, considering the fact the apparently he was a nazi all along, I'm not sure if people want the guy who betrayed everyone, the american who betrayed his country and that worked with the nazis, the man who's probably going to spit on the face of everyone who idolized him, to represent gays in the Marvel Universe.

That's pretty bad timing isn't it? I saw a tweet along the lines of "What does it say that Marvel would rather make Cap a Nazi than bisexual?"

[Loki Laufeyson]

id be careful with that if i were you. People would think you might be trying to equate being a fuggen nazi with being gay. Gay wouldnt derail his entire concept as a character. But that a discussion for another thread/day. And if they decided to out him as gay in the comics after this reveal, holy shit, rip in rip Marvel. I doubt they will do that at this point.

[Water Mage]

Not to mention he's a character created by Jewish people to show opposition to the Nazis. Making Cap himself a Nazi is just actually tasteless. Even if he's brainwashed or whatever, they drew out that shock reveal knowing it would make headlines. They threw out what Cap stands for for money and publicity, and I'm a little disgusted by it, until they explain themselves further.

The worst thing is that Cap didn't need that publicity.

Look at how well Civil War did!

And then throw all of that in the trash for this.

If they ever put Hydra!Cap in the cinematic universe, I'm not sure if I could watch the previous Captain America and Avengers movies anymore. And it would be an insult to the Civil War, which was an amazing movie.

Seriously, try watching Civil War with Hydra!Cap in mind. It almost becomes unwatchable.

[Rezzy]

I haven't been keeping up with the Comics, but I thought Falcon was the new Captain America?

Why, oh why would they make Cap a Hydra Agent? Captain America is a bigger boy scout than Superman, this completely assassinates his character. It's worse than making Batman kill people.

I also hated the making Thor a woman. Not because I'm against a woman wielding Mjolnir, but why are we making Thor unworthy? Was he kicking puppies off panel? And why does he lose his freaking name when he loses his hammer? I wouldn't mind a redemption arc, but giving his hammer to someone else in the manner they did implies he's never getting it back.

[Water Mage]

I haven't been keeping up with the Comics, but I thought Falcon was the new Captain America?

To make it more simple, Steve Rogers was a Hydra agent all along.

[Thor Odinson]

I also hated the making Thor a woman. Not because I'm against a woman wielding Mjolnir, but why are we making Thor unworthy? Was he kicking puppies off panel? And why does he lose his freaking name when he loses his hammer? I wouldn't mind a redemption arc, but giving his hammer to someone else in the manner they did implies he's never getting it back.

I thought I'd give it a chance because it was Jason Aaron writing and the reasoning for his premise wasn't too bad -- Thor losing his hammer usage in some way/someone else getting it is done a couple times historically, starting with Beta Ray Bill on the very highly acclaimed Simonson runs, so he wanted to do one of those stories and if a horse alien and a frog can do it, why not a woman? which is, alright, I'll follow it a bit and see what happens, and I really wanted to like it because Aaron did a phenomenal job on God of Thunder 1-11, where he told a Thor story with such perfect tone and epicness and even some well timed humor, and maybe this supposed "unworthiness" could lead to some character growth--but Thor himself basically spent all of the first arc just trying to figure out who femthor is and didn't really get much time for his character to also benefit from any of the developments, which is really disappointing.

I won't say the femthor issues don't have merit because there's some pretty great panels here and there that were pretty charming (I also loved the art), and Aaron is not an incompetent writer, but I feel the premise didn't really work out here and it feels unfair to Thor himself as a character and to people who love Thor as Thor.

I havent' followed it after the whole universe reboot thing which I'm also not a fan of, so I actually have no idea just what made thor unworthy in the first place. marvel kept on making whatever nick fury told him a big secret.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Ϲharlie]

I haven't been keeping up with the Comics, but I thought Falcon was the new Captain America?

Falcon is still Captain America, but Steve's youth was restored recently. There are two Captains America right now.

[sirmola]

There are two Captains America right now.

THat's yet more proof that this will shake out before long. two Captain Americas is not a long term thing.

[Rezzy]

THat's yet more proof that this will shake out before long. two Captain Americas is not a long term thing.

I think Spider-man needs to make a deal with the devil to sort this whole mess out.

[Water Mage]

I think Spider-man needs to make a deal with the devil to sort this whole mess out.

Again?

[Water Mage]

I'm really sorry about the double post, but I've had to post this,

This is what Buzz Dixon, comic book writer and friend of Jack Kirby had to say about Hydra Captain America:

[Rezzy]

I'm really sorry about the double post, but I've had to post this,

This is what Buzz Dixon, comic book writer and friend of Jack Kirby had to say about Hydra Captain America:

I'm trying to think of a bigger betrayal of character, but I'm at a loss.

Even saying Gandalf was really on Sauron's side the whole time pales in comparison to this.

[Water Mage]

I'm trying to think of a bigger betrayal of character, but I'm at a loss.

Even saying Gandalf was really on Sauron's side the whole time pales in comparison to this.

Probably because it's not simply a betrayal of a character.

It's a betrayal of a legacy, of a cultural icon.

How did Marvel let this be approved?

Why couldn't they make this a what-if AU?

It would actually be interesting!

[Rezzy]

I find it interesting that there's been way more outrage about Cap being a Nazi than Cap potentially being gay.

Although I'd find it hilarious if they tried to make him a gay Nazi.

[ClevelandSteve]

I find it interesting that there's been way more outrage about Cap being a Nazi than Cap potentially being gay.

Um, maybe because there's nothing wrong with being gay but there's a shit ton wrong with being a Nazi?

[maybe]

I find it interesting that there's been way more outrage about Cap being a Nazi than Cap potentially being gay.

now i understand what you're saying here but you really could've phrased that better

in a way that sounds less like you're comparing being gay and being a nazi

Edited May 28, 2016 by maybe

[かベリー]

Can I just say that there's a tumblr post with tons of notes and it's a picture (It's a panel from a comic) of the Joker turning against Red Skull.

AKA, Cap has lower moral standards than Joker.

gg marvel make the starred flag proud cap <3

Edited May 28, 2016 by Floral Pattern