Does anyone else ship Chrom/Sully?

[Augestein]

Honestly, I felt the conversation with Lucina's sibling works best with Inigo and Brady. Especially Inigo. Inigo because there's no contradictions, he's pretty irreverent, in Inigo's supports, Inigo's father specifically wonders why he's not more like Lucina. I find that makes more sense when they are siblings. Brady because there's no real contradictions there either, and Brady is pretty rough around the edges like Chrom.

Plus, Cynthia not being Chrom's child makes it make more sense when she can't recognize her father. Even Morgan with amnesia doesn't fail that hard.

As for Sully/Chrom, it's a good support. I like Maribelle more (first playthrough for me), but Sully's is good too.

@ShadowofChaos-- I feel the "who''s Lucina" bit was more Morgan just being a complete train wreck there more than anything else. And that Morgan began to recall things as (s)he spent time with the others.

[Lisa_Lee]

I really enjoy Chrom and Sully's support a lot for it to be my favorite romantic Chrom support (and it might be my second favorite Chapter 11 marriage scene), and I really love the dialogue Sully gets in the two wife scenes. I guess ChromxSully counts as my main Chrom ship with only units.

Kjelle really looks great with the Chrom blue hair for me, but I find it absolutely funny she's a royal thanks to her B rank support with female MU. It was the armor clanking part. Clink. Clank. I cannot get that image out of my mind what-so-ever. It's a depressing image, but still a funny one.

I also think this pair might be the reason I dislike unfitting generic supports.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

This is only partially related, but I dislike Cynthia as Chrom's daughter because she can't recognize her dad! Why would she think she is the daughter of an ugly boss? That's so terrible for being the most canon choice... Plus I like Cynthia and while she is not very brilliant, I'd expect her to at least know that guy is definitely not her dad. Maybe she does not remember exactly how he looks but... Cynthia if she was your dad you'd at least have a bigger nose!

At least she fits the convo. But for me, Inigo is the most fitting. Because you can just SEE him being afraid of bugs, lol. And the cool bit at the end is very appropriate too.

Really, the only downside to Chrom/Olivia for me is how they marry in-game. Even their logbook S support is the cutest of all S supports for Chrom, imo.

I guess the other downside would be a no-grind run, but in those it's either Sumia or Sully. And if you're FRobin, simply marry him yourself, lol. Easily the most OP pairing in the game.

[shadowofchaos]

@ShadowofChaos-- I feel the "who''s Lucina" bit was more Morgan just being a complete train wreck there more than anything else. And that Morgan began to recall things as (s)he spent time with the others.

It's a question of consistency. The localization didn't know how to handle it because they changed Morgan's dialogue to fit one of the most popular pairing in the game. Namely his personality surprisingly changing from time to time with their clear memory and lack of frustration at the complete picture.

Especially his interactions with the other children as siblings.

And within that... Especially since their ending stated they never got back their memory.

One would assume they never got a lot of details.

Which means they could never remember Lucina ALWAYS having it in the future. Hell, he could never say for sure he didn't touch it. Ever.

The best conclusion is that Chrom married the generic village girl and that Morgan either had no siblings...

Or has another sibling that is as crack as it can be: Morgan.

Edited June 8, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

NOPE, YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON THAT SHIPS THIS ONE PAIRING OUT OF MILLIONS!

sarcasm aside, this is the only chrom pairing i actually like, yet alone the only sully pairing i like.

[Roflolxp54]

It's a question of consistency. The localization didn't know how to handle it because they changed Morgan's dialogue to fit one of the most popular pairing in the game. Namely his personality surprisingly changing from time to time with their clear memory and lack of frustration at the complete picture.

Especially his interactions with the other children as siblings.

And within that... Especially since their ending stated they never got back their memory.

One would assume they never got a lot of details.

Which means they could never remember Lucina ALWAYS having it in the future. Hell, he could never say for sure he didn't touch it. Ever.

The best conclusion is that Chrom married the generic village girl and that Morgan either had no siblings...

Or has another sibling that is as crack as it can be: Morgan.

Or just go with support growths-based canon: Chrom always marries Sumia and Robin either remains single or marries an Avatarsexual (female Robin also has the options of Lon'qu and Donnel, who also normally remain single in support growths-based canon); in the case that Robin does marry, Morgan is an only child and remains single.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Roflolxp54

[The Geek]

This is only partially related, but I dislike Cynthia as Chrom's daughter because she can't recognize her dad! Why would she think she is the daughter of an ugly boss? That's so terrible for being the most canon choice... Plus I like Cynthia and while she is not very brilliant, I'd expect her to at least know that guy is definitely not her dad. Maybe she does not remember exactly how he looks but... Cynthia if she was your dad you'd at least have a bigger nose!

I always assumed that the reason for this was because Chrom died when Cynthia was still an infant or toddler, so she doesn't really remember him.

And additionally, judging by the dialogue surrounding that Paralogue I can assume that the boss actually is supposed to look a lot like Chrom, but they just couldn't be bothered to make a unique portrait for him (IIRC, he shares his portrait with the boss of Inigo's Paralogue)

And on topic with the thread, I think Sully actually is one of Chrom's better supports (alongside Maribelle and his actual supports with Olivia which you never see if you pair them together).

It's funny that Chrom's best romantic supports are with the least optimal pairs gameplay wise (Sully doesn't give Galeforce and Maribelle's modifiers and class set are completely unsuited to Lucina)

[PeaceRibbon]

I'm more of a Chrom X Maribelle kinda guy. The S rank support is downright precious, and I like Chrom's unique dialogue with Brady if you chose to have Chrom talk to him during the paralougue over his mother. Plus, at least I get someone else with Rightful King. I'd agree Inigo benefits from it more, but but nobody touches my girl.

Overall, screw stats. This is a game, not math homework. :P

[Augestein]

It's a question of consistency. The localization didn't know how to handle it because they changed Morgan's dialogue to fit one of the most popular pairing in the game. Namely his personality surprisingly changing from time to time with their clear memory and lack of frustration at the complete picture.

Especially his interactions with the other children as siblings.

And within that... Especially since their ending stated they never got back their memory.

One would assume they never got a lot of details.

Which means they could never remember Lucina ALWAYS having it in the future. Hell, he could never say for sure he didn't touch it. Ever.

The best conclusion is that Chrom married the generic village girl and that Morgan either had no siblings...

Or has another sibling that is as crack as it can be: Morgan.

Honestly, Robin pairings are just messy all over the place.

Even Morgan / Robin is kind of strange in that regard. "I remember you but not really" seems to be the gist of the support. And Nah's support is just hilarious with Robin because Nah complains about how she was "ALL ALONE D:" but then turns around and had a little sister that was with her the whole time. Owain has Robin dying for an arrow and then

being Grima, the big bad of the game.

The thing is with Morgan, is he says "I remember you always having it," but at the same time, it's not the same Morgan as other Morgans. So it works a bit better in that regard, because Chrom!Morgan actually seems to start to remember more than the other ones Plus, that's just what he remembers, it's not necessarily true, because even Lucina can't remember if Morgan ever had it or not. The ending says they never regained their memories, yes, but that doesn't mean that they didn't remember some things. Their support with their mother says that they can remember their father for instance.

Morgan is just... Weird. Also, I love that bug one, because my sister was the same way growing up so there might be bias on my part. I LOVE BUGS --- ROACH!!!!!11111. KILL IT. Seriously, that conversation is absolutely sublime in my eyes because it's oddly nostalgic.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Augestein

[shadowofchaos]

Wouldn't them remembering the future be an important point rather than just assuming he got it back though?

Casually saying "Oh, yeah, you always kept it by your side in the future" kind of suspends the typical observer's disbelief if they aren't invested in the pairing that generated that situation.

It's a HUGE jump from "oh he's interacting with their sibling normally despite the memory loss" instead of "he's acting completely normal and acts as if he gained a complete confidence in what he remembers".

Edited June 9, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Augestein]

Wouldn't them remembering the future be an important point rather than just assuming he got it back though?

Casually saying "Oh, yeah, you always kept it by your side in the future" kind of suspends the typical observer's disbelief if they aren't invested in the pairing that generated that situation.

It's a HUGE jump from "oh he's interacting with their sibling normally despite the memory loss" instead of "he's acting completely normal and acts as if he gained a complete confidence in what he remembers".

Not particularly. Because it's a different Morgan from other Morgans. It's something that *works* in the context of that universe in that regard. Chrom!Morgan lost less memories than NotChrom!Morgan. It should also be noted that at least in the localization, Morgan never talks about memories with any of the children outside of Yarne pretty much. So this is not really an issue with male morgan, and Lucina is his only sibling that he can ever have. There's actually more consistency than I initially thought. For instance, at the end of the Parent / Morgan support, Morgan recalls a memory with the parent. Not really any context, but he does remember it-- Lucina could be the same way. Except he actually has memories of Lucina, so he doesn't harp on about not having memories because... He remembers Lucina outside of the initial confusion of warping where he did. Same reason memories aren't brought up for Robin. He remembers her, so there's no reason not to. Ironically enough, the memories are only really a crux of the conversation with a non-sibling Lucina (because he talks how his lack of memories might be his boon for dealing with life)... Which you can't have the conversation unless you didn't marry Chrom.

Also, does Japanese Morgan say that he loves all bugs in the response to Noire? He says that he doesn't like roaches in response to Noire's "all bugs?" If that's the same thing in Japanese there, then it's not a problem at all. Obviously the bug that freaked him out was a roach in the first place. The localization just clears up that it was specifically a cockroach.

[shadowofchaos]

Here's the question, why are we assuming that Morgan was just confused and has memories of Lucina? Especially the hesitation during the conversation at the end of their recruitment feels like they're only connection and light is Reflet/Robin.

If we are also to assume "different universe justification" for each child... why would Lucina willingly jeopardize her beloved sibling's existence in this timeline for Chapter 21?

It's just a lot to ignore with people's characters for that one pairing.

Especially their "feeling" in Japanese dialogue.

That's a big assumption on your part in Japanese.

No, I don't recall anything that says he's being specific about a big he doesn't like.

He avoids it and is roundabout like the Japanese do.

[マーク]

どんな虫でもと聞かれると

ちょっと微妙ですけどね。▼

よく物陰にいる、わさわさした動きの

黒い虫なんかは僕も苦手ですし。▼

His phrasing never implies that he hates or absolutely dislikes the black bugs. At all.

As in he wouldn't react that way.

It's a localization play up that backfires for anyone that knows Japanese.

Just like your justifications for specifically Chrom!Morgan... Kjelle can be justified to have some sort of insecurities with Lucina.

So, as my previous point was: it's about as out of character as Kjelle.

Edited June 9, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Light Strategist]

Here's the question, why are we assuming that Morgan was just confused and has memories of Lucina? Especially the hesitation during the conversation at the end of their recruitment feels like they're only connection and light is Reflet/Robin.

If we are also to assume "different universe justification" for each child... why would Lucina willingly jeopardize her beloved sibling's existence in this timeline for Chapter 21?

It's just a lot to ignore with people's characters for that one pairing.

Especially their "feeling" in Japanese dialogue.

That's a big assumption on your part in Japanese.

No, I don't recall anything that says he's being specific about a big he doesn't like.

He avoids it and is roundabout like the Japanese do.

[マーク]

どんな虫でもと聞かれると

ちょっと微妙ですけどね。▼

よく物陰にいる、わさわさした動きの

黒い虫なんかは僕も苦手ですし。▼

His phrasing never implies that he hates or absolutely dislikes the black bugs. At all.

As in he wouldn't react that way.

It's a localization play up that backfires for anyone that knows Japanese.

Just like your justifications for specifically Chrom!Morgan... Kjelle can be justified to have some sort of insecurities with Lucina.

So, as my previous point was: it's about as out of character as Kjelle.

Honestly, I feel it should've prioritized the Morgan sibling supports over Lucina's, or perhaps made a unique set just for the two of them. Just my opinion on that topic. Though it's kinda like how the Avatar remembers their own name conveniently before the prologue chapter, I still see the possibility as 'there but extremely unlikely' that any memories Morgan would have regarding Lucina and the future just magically resurfaced much in the same way. It'd be far too convenient. At least the Morgan sibling supports make plenty of sense to happen logically. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

[Augestein]

Here's the question, why are we assuming that Morgan was just confused and has memories of Lucina? Especially the hesitation during the conversation at the end of their recruitment feels like they're only connection and light is Reflet/Robin.

If we are also to assume "different universe justification" for each child... why would Lucina willingly jeopardize her beloved sibling's existence in this timeline for Chapter 21?

It's just a lot to ignore with people's characters for that one pairing.

Especially their "feeling" in Japanese dialogue.

That's a big assumption on your part in Japanese.

No, I don't recall anything that says he's being specific about a big he doesn't like.

He avoids it and is roundabout like the Japanese do.

[マーク]

どんな虫でもと聞かれると

ちょっと微妙ですけどね。▼

よく物陰にいる、わさわさした動きの

黒い虫なんかは僕も苦手ですし。▼

His phrasing never implies that he hates or absolutely dislikes the black bugs. At all.

As in he wouldn't react that way.

It's a localization play up that backfires for anyone that knows Japanese.

Just like your justifications for specifically Chrom!Morgan... Kjelle can be justified to have some sort of insecurities with Lucina.

So, as my previous point was: it's about as out of character as Kjelle.

The reason I'd say I would in that specific case is because it makes there less likely to be a flat out plothole if you think of it in that regard. We aren't talking about something like say... Male Robin having pairings with siblings like Nah, or Owain, where specific details are given to the point that there's no real way to actually justify them. Female Morgan is the only one that actually has the "I have no memory" conversation with their sibling. Male Morgan cannot have it because the only time he's a sibling is with Lucina. Thus, it works a heck of a lot better than female Morgan with her siblings at moments.

Except, she doesn't actually do it. Also, considering she's possibly willing to kill her own mother or her lover as well or at the very least, one of Chrom's best friends, it's not hard to see her willing to have a parent die that would cause her sibling to never be created.

It's not any less to ignore than say Robin!Owain or Robin!Nah, Robin!Noire (so Noire was hit by curses, and Robin is if he confronted Tharja, but never Morgan?), Robin!Yarne (you aren't the last of your race, you have a little sister that is also the same race)... Like I said, the problems that exists with Robin pairings in general. I don't see any real reason to suddenly make an exception to Robin!Lucina when Robin pairings in general are wonky. Robin x Children is weird because it specifically happens in a timeline that's already altered yet Morgan remembers the same memory of his parent being older yet this implies the child grew up and had children with Robin and ... Ugh.

And I never made an assumption about the Japanese. I specifically asked about it in my response. And as for Kjelle, I specifically remember in my first response saying "I think Brady and Inigo work the best." I didn't even mention Kjelle. I'm glad the localization went out of its way to clean up some of the mistakes made in Japanese. There's no reason to not clean it up. For all we know, they could have actually gotten those alterations approved.

Honestly, I feel it should've prioritized the Morgan sibling supports over Lucina's, or perhaps made a unique set just for the two of them. Just my opinion on that topic. Though it's kinda like how the Avatar remembers their own name conveniently before the prologue chapter, I still see the possibility as 'there but extremely unlikely' that any memories Morgan would have regarding Lucina and the future just magically resurfaced much in the same way. It'd be far too convenient. At least the Morgan sibling supports make plenty of sense to happen logically. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

Honestly, I feel that this is the result of the insane copy-pasting nature of these supports that's the problem. Unfortunately, the only way to really make this work is for ALL of the conversations to be unique or so generic that it can't really say anything or they have to specifically only talk about the characters at present.

[shadowofchaos]

Fair enough. However, I'm one that believes original intent is lost in localization rather than improved. Simply because, while the Japanese perspective isn't fitting with the setting of FE (example: Sumias bentos), their values in the character portrayals are lost whenever it crosses borders.

Especially when it's changes to pander to a group of people who like their self-insert prince fantasy. (See: The "Lovebirds" movie title change in Europe)

[HK Motendra]

Aside from devotedly shipping Stahl/Sully every time, she was never good for me in all [4] of my complete play throughs, so I never invested in her at all. While Stahl had promise, I also didn't really like/have a need for Cavs, so he eventually and unfortunately fell off for me.

"But you could just reclass him into something else!" I don't like reclassing in the main game. And there you have it.

All that aside, Sully does have the better support chain out of the 4-5 candidates

[Water Mage]

The reason I'd say I would in that specific case is because it makes there less likely to be a flat out plothole if you think of it in that regard. We aren't talking about something like say... Male Robin having pairings with siblings like Nah, or Owain, where specific details are given to the point that there's no real way to actually justify them. Female Morgan is the only one that actually has the "I have no memory" conversation with their sibling. Male Morgan cannot have it because the only time he's a sibling is with Lucina. Thus, it works a heck of a lot better than female Morgan with her siblings at moments.

Except, she doesn't actually do it. Also, considering she's possibly willing to kill her own mother or her lover as well or at the very least, one of Chrom's best friends, it's not hard to see her willing to have a parent die that would cause her sibling to never be created.

It's not any less to ignore than say Robin!Owain or Robin!Nah, Robin!Noire (so Noire was hit by curses, and Robin is if he confronted Tharja, but never Morgan?), Robin!Yarne (you aren't the last of your race, you have a little sister that is also the same race)... Like I said, the problems that exists with Robin pairings in general. I don't see any real reason to suddenly make an exception to Robin!Lucina when Robin pairings in general are wonky. Robin x Children is weird because it specifically happens in a timeline that's already altered yet Morgan remembers the same memory of his parent being older yet this implies the child grew up and had children with Robin and ... Ugh.

And I never made an assumption about the Japanese. I specifically asked about it in my response. And as for Kjelle, I specifically remember in my first response saying "I think Brady and Inigo work the best." I didn't even mention Kjelle. I'm glad the localization went out of its way to clean up some of the mistakes made in Japanese. There's no reason to not clean it up. For all we know, they could have actually gotten those alterations approved.

Honestly, I feel that this is the result of the insane copy-pasting nature of these supports that's the problem. Unfortunately, the only way to really make this work is for ALL of the conversations to be unique or so generic that it can't really say anything or they have to specifically only talk about the characters at present.

Actually, in the Robin/Owain support, with Robin as the father, Owain says that Robin vanished, instead of saying he died.

That they never found Robin's body.

[Augestein]

Fair enough. However, I'm one that believes original intent is lost in localization rather than improved. Simply because, while the Japanese perspective isn't fitting with the setting of FE (example: Sumias bentos), their values in the character portrayals are lost whenever it crosses borders.

Especially when it's changes to pander to a group of people who like their self-insert prince fantasy. (See: The "Lovebirds" movie title change in Europe)

I can see that. Honestly, the Sumia one is pretty lousy in the English version, I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they switched bentos to pies, because one is a balanced lunch while the other is something that's not particularly healthy for you. In that regard, the entire context of the support is lost unfortunately. I'm not going to say the localization is just plain better, but in terms of handling Morgan, I think that was a bit better from what you're telling me. It's sort of how in Tales of Xillia, they toned Gaius down in the English version and made him less "evil," which works a lot better for the fact that there's a sequel.

Yeah, that is silly for pandering sake, but changing it to make the supports work better with the story is always a good change in my eyes. I can see how little changes for pandering's sake would annoy someone though.

Actually, in the Robin/Owain support, with Robin as the father, Owain says that Robin vanished, instead of saying he died.
That they never found Robin's body.

But the support before doesn't change enough text to support it, so it makes it seem like Owain is just too afraid to say "you died" when it's Robin. Support B still has him saying the same things. Honestly, that change of him disappearing is even worse than the original text depending on how you take that. "You were fighting the Risen with me, and then you protected me after getting gravely wounded... And then you disappeared... And then two days later Grima came."

Like... The implications are really messed up because it kinda makes it seem like RobinxLissa results in it being Owain's fault that Grima's alive because he goofs off too much and Robin became Grima. It makes a hell of an interesting good I'll admit, but Owain's not even able to realize it, and because he's not a main character, he can't actually come to the conclusion.

Either that, or it's like

Robin: Gods my son is such a screw up! That's it! There's no other choice but to eradicate all of the earth as we know it. His existence has tainted everything. There's no choice but to begin anew.

I wish I had thought of that sooner.

[Truffa]

ChromxSully is my favorite pairing for him, it's the only romantic support of Chrom that I can stand and make sense, I like ChromxOlivia chain, but is very stupid that she join in the chapter that Chrom's get married. Also, Aether Kjelle is cool, and Sully as mother of Lucina and queen of Ylisse is too nice, fuck Galeforce