FE9 Which mage should I use? Or should I use multiple?

[Quintessence]

What challenge does Battle Before Dawn offers? The map is basically running to Zephiel, lend a hand to Jaffar, recruit Nino, kill Ursula and rout enemy and finally make Nino talk to Jaffar within 15 turns. In most cases this can be done within 10 turns or less.

Btw, this is Darros's first time on PoR so there's like a 99% chance he's playing suboptimally.

[Rezzy]

What challenge does Battle Before Dawn offers? The map is basically running to Zephiel, lend a hand to Jaffar, recruit Nino, kill Ursula and rout enemy and finally make Nino talk to Jaffar within 15 turns. In most cases this can be done within 10 turns or less.

Btw, this is Darros's first time on PoR so there's like a 99% chance he's playing suboptimally.

Hard Hector Mode of Battle Before Dawn can be maddening. Jaffar can easily get himself killed before you have a chance to even reach him. You're purely at the mercy of RNG.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Calill is the best.

Her stats are every bit as good as any other Sage's, and she doesn't have the painful start all the others have. And she has good weapon ranks, so she can actually use those spare siege tomes you get, and those are surprisingly powerful in FE9.

I guess she doesn't have staves but you know what I don't need more of in FE9? E rank staff users in the second half of the game. The paladin death squad with their high defences and avo-boosting supports and possibly even Sol hardly ever needs healing, so the one I raised with staff exp instead of combat exp suffices, and has access to Restore/Physic without grinding.

Of the rest, Soren vs. Tormod feels like it depends on taste, Tormod has an even worse start but the best payoff (due to Celerity), Ilyana is just Tormod minus like 4 speed, Bastian is pretty much prepromo Ilyana only even slower.

[Rezzy]

Calill is the best.

Her stats are every bit as good as any other Sage's, and she doesn't have the painful start all the others have. And she has good weapon ranks, so she can actually use those spare siege tomes you get, and those are surprisingly powerful in FE9.

I guess she doesn't have staves but you know what I don't need more of in FE9? E rank staff users in the second half of the game. The paladin death squad with their high defences and avo-boosting supports and possibly even Sol hardly ever needs healing, so the one I raised with staff exp instead of combat exp suffices, and has access to Restore/Physic without grinding.

Of the rest, Soren vs. Tormod feels like it depends on taste, Tormod has an even worse start but the best payoff (due to Celerity), Ilyana is just Tormod minus like 4 speed, Bastian is pretty much prepromo Ilyana only even slower.

Calill is good and usable right out of the box, the only problem with using her is that you'll be without a mage for more than half the game if you're only using her.

I'd argue that E rank staves are just fine. With a decent Magic stat, even a Heal staff is going to heal a decent chunk of HP.

[Enaluxeme]

In this game it's mostly Soren plus any of the others if you want two mages. Use Ilyana in the chapters where you can deploy everyone and see if she is turning out well, if she isn't both Tormod and Calill have good aviability: Tormod can be easily fed kills thanks to his skill and Calill has good stats and ranks all around, you have to choose between waiting for Tormod to grow and have a great staff user or stick to Calill and get a good magic user right off the bat but no staff.

[Rezzy]

In this game it's mostly Soren plus any of the others if you want two mages. Use Ilyana in the chapters where you can deploy everyone and see if she is turning out well, if she isn't both Tormod and Calill have good aviability: Tormod can be easily fed kills thanks to his skill and Calill has good stats and ranks all around, you have to choose between waiting for Tormod to grow and have a great staff user or stick to Calill and get a good magic user right off the bat but no staff.

I definitely recommend Soren for a first run, but if for some reason you don't want to use him, Ilyana comes early enough to be your main mage.

I don't think Soren's low strength is a huge issue, since his speed growth is high enough to offset the penalty, and most tomes are pretty light.

[Radiant Dragon]

Yeah, because putting two side objectives that conflict with each other in the same map is totally the pinnacle of game design... Alone, they work well enough, but together... not so much.

As stated by Rezzy, the priest level was a much better designed example of the spare the enemy side objective.

How do sparing the laguz and getting all of the treasure in chapter 15 'conflict with each other' any more than sparing the Priests/Bishops and getting all of the treasure in chapter 22? Both chapters have enemies to spare that can't attack you, but chapter 15 gives you much more room to maneuver and position your units since there aren't a bunch of walls in the way, and the desert works in your favor here by reducing the Tiger's movement range (which are the only dangerous enemies on the map).

Chapter 22 is easier, sure, but that doesn't inherently make it 'better designed'. I do think 22 is a better chapter, but only slightly, since both chapters present different challenges to the player despite having similar objectives.

I'm not sure what point Rezzy is trying to make with his Battle Before Dawn example (which, on Hector Hard Mode, is a legitimately poorly designed map), as you do not need a highly optimized strategy to save all of the laguz and get all of the treasure, especially since you can unequip your weapon in PoR. The turncount for max 'turns to clear' BEXP is kinda tight (only 7 turns), but the penalty for going a couple turns over isn't that big. I think an optimized clear of chapter 15 with all treasure only takes four turns (unless Lethe or Mordecai can reach Stefan before that?), so a non-optimal clear has plenty of wiggle room, in terms of turncount.

We're straying rather far off topic though, so this may not be the best place to continue this discussion.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Radiant Dragon

[Rezzy]

I'm not sure what point Rezzy is trying to make with his Battle Before Dawn example (which, on Hector Hard Mode, is a legitimately poorly designed map), as you do not need a highly optimized strategy to save all of the laguz and get all of the treasure, especially since you can unequip your weapon in PoR. The turncount for max 'turns to clear' BEXP is kinda tight (only 7 turns), but the penalty for going a couple turns over isn't that big. I think an optimized clear of chapter 15 with all treasure only takes four turns (unless Lethe or Mordecai can reach Stefan before that?), so a non-optimal clear has plenty of wiggle room, in terms of turncount.

My point was that Battle Before Dawn requires a turn-by-turn guide to successfully guarantee recruiting everybody/completing all the objectives, and even then, it's RNG dependent.

How do you swing getting all the treasures in only 4 turns? Only thieves have a 100% chance to get the loot.

[Quintessence]

Idk but I find Ilyana more confortable to use than Soren. Granted, Soren is pretty good once he gets levels and his magic, skl and sp are most likely going up; but Ilyana's Str gains and average stats seem better to manipulate. I gave her a bunch of bexp from lv 6 to 11 and she got pretty high Str, good Magic, lots of skl, and nice gains in spd, while Soren is stuck at 0 str. Sure, magic is light weight, but some minimal difference between being weighed or not means whether you double your enemies or not, and whether they die or not. And still, not giving bexp to either Soren or Ilyana is like shooting your foot.

[Radiant Dragon]

My point was that Battle Before Dawn requires a turn-by-turn guide to successfully guarantee recruiting everybody/completing all the objectives, and even then, it's RNG dependent.

How do you swing getting all the treasures in only 4 turns? Only thieves have a 100% chance to get the loot.

Battle Before Dawn does not require a turn-by-turn guide for anything. You have 15 turns, which is more than enough; you can get to all the NPCs in half that, which leaves ample time to loot the treasures at your leisure. No turn-by-turn guide is going to guarantee Jaffar's survival, although it does help to get to him as quickly as possible to reduce his chance of death. Why the game doesn't give you the Rescue staff before this chapter is beyond me. At least we're in agreement that the chapter sucks, though.

Stefan grabs the White Gem, and any reasonably durable infantry unit can get the Statue Frag. Sothe and Volke split grabbing everything else. Yes, there's a chance of failure, but that's par for the course for low-turncount strategies (although since the Gem and Frag are only useful for extra cash, they're hardly essential). I personally prefer taking a little longer to get Volke down to the Frag, which gives Stefan and Jill three or four turns to find the Gem, which isn't bad. Actually, after dropping Lethe, Jill can probably fly back to grab Volke after he gets the Boots and drop him in range of the Gem, while Sothe hoofs it over to the Frag, but he might have survivability issues, since there's a Tiger down there if I recall correctly (and Sothe can't grab the Boots since there's a Tiger up there, also). You could have Jill grab Sothe and have Volke get the Frag, but that might take longer than 7 turns, I don't remember.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Radiant Dragon

[Shadow Mir]

How do sparing the laguz and getting all of the treasure in chapter 15 'conflict with each other' any more than sparing the Priests/Bishops and getting all of the treasure in chapter 22? Both chapters have enemies to spare that can't attack you, but chapter 15 gives you much more room to maneuver and position your units since there aren't a bunch of walls in the way, and the desert works in your favor here by reducing the Tiger's movement range (which are the only dangerous enemies on the map).

Chapter 22 is easier, sure, but that doesn't inherently make it 'better designed'. I do think 22 is a better chapter, but only slightly, since both chapters present different challenges to the player despite having similar objectives.

I'm not sure what point Rezzy is trying to make with his Battle Before Dawn example (which, on Hector Hard Mode, is a legitimately poorly designed map), as you do not need a highly optimized strategy to save all of the laguz and get all of the treasure, especially since you can unequip your weapon in PoR. The turncount for max 'turns to clear' BEXP is kinda tight (only 7 turns), but the penalty for going a couple turns over isn't that big. I think an optimized clear of chapter 15 with all treasure only takes four turns (unless Lethe or Mordecai can reach Stefan before that?), so a non-optimal clear has plenty of wiggle room, in terms of turncount.

We're straying rather far off topic though, so this may not be the best place to continue this discussion.

Because Chapter 15 is asking you to turn the other cheek... in a game with permanent death. I shouldn't have to spell out what's wrong with this picture. It doesn't help that laguz are rather lucrative in the EXP department. Compare to chapter 22, where it's obvious that the BEXP is more valuable because the priests are low-leveled to the point you might as well be getting nothing for killing them.

Anyways, as for the thread, I personally say Calill.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Radiant Dragon]

Because Chapter 15 is asking you to turn the other cheek... in a game with permanent death. I shouldn't have to spell out what's wrong with this picture. It doesn't help that laguz are rather lucrative in the EXP department. Compare to chapter 22, where it's obvious that the BEXP is more valuable because the priests are low-leveled to the point you might as well be getting nothing for killing them.

Do you also kill the Bishops that attack you in Chapter 22, then? What about the untransformed laguz in 15, do you spare them? I could turn your argument around if you'd like:

"Because Chapter 22 is asking you to turn the other cheek... in a game with permanent death. I shouldn't have to spell out what's wrong with this picture. It doesn't help that Bishops are rather lucrative in the EXP department. Compare to Chapter 15, where it's obvious that the BEXP is more valuable because your team mostly hasn't promoted yet, so they get more out of the BEXP."

Not to mention that each Laguz gives twice as much BEXP as each Priest does, and you get an additional bonus if you spare them all.

[Watrulugh]

I love Tormod, but you don't want to grind so don't use him, I never liked soren but he's the best, Illyana is a bit slow but pretty good, Calil is always fine i'd recommend her, she's the easiest to train, and Bastion you forgot and he's Eh but his character is amazing

[Snowy_One]

Do you also kill the Bishops that attack you in Chapter 22, then? What about the untransformed laguz in 15, do you spare them? I could turn your argument around if you'd like:

"Because Chapter 22 is asking you to turn the other cheek... in a game with permanent death. I shouldn't have to spell out what's wrong with this picture. It doesn't help that Bishops are rather lucrative in the EXP department. Compare to Chapter 15, where it's obvious that the BEXP is more valuable because your team mostly hasn't promoted yet, so they get more out of the BEXP."

Not to mention that each Laguz gives twice as much BEXP as each Priest does, and you get an additional bonus if you spare them all.

It's a lot easier to work around the bishops though than it is the Laguz. IIRC most of them don't attack you and can be simply shoved aside.

[Shadow Mir]

Do you also kill the Bishops that attack you in Chapter 22, then? What about the untransformed laguz in 15, do you spare them? I could turn your argument around if you'd like:

"Because Chapter 22 is asking you to turn the other cheek... in a game with permanent death. I shouldn't have to spell out what's wrong with this picture. It doesn't help that Bishops are rather lucrative in the EXP department. Compare to Chapter 15, where it's obvious that the BEXP is more valuable because your team mostly hasn't promoted yet, so they get more out of the BEXP."

Not to mention that each Laguz gives twice as much BEXP as each Priest does, and you get an additional bonus if you spare them all.

Because sparing three Bishops that are practically no threat, don't even move at all and can simply be shoved aside is totally the same as sparing laguz that are a threat and will move, amirite?

o wait, it ain't. At any rate, sparing all the priests also gives a bonus.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Ownagepuffs]

I love Tormod in PoR. Celerity and tomes + joining after a massive bexp supply.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Calill is good and usable right out of the box, the only problem with using her is that you'll be without a mage for more than half the game if you're only using her.

I'd argue that E rank staves are just fine. With a decent Magic stat, even a Heal staff is going to heal a decent chunk of HP.

Well, as I alluded to in my previous post, I don't agree that going without a mage in the first half of the game is much of a loss since the first three mages all start off rather bad IMO. I'd rather use Lethe/Mordecai and drop them when I get Calill (or perhaps use Muarim/Stefan for a bit in the middle, etc.), that is if I'm going to use any mage at all.

Heal restores a fine amount of HP, it's just not needed. Thanks to the incredible amount of avoid generated by some supports (Ike's, Oscar's, Kieran's, etc.) as well as Sol/Aether, healing is only rarely needed later on. Since I already have one healer (with access to Physic if needed), as well as Reyson to give them an extra turn if for some reason I actually want that, the value of a second healer is very low, especially one that can't use Restore or Physic.

[Rezzy]

Well, as I alluded to in my previous post, I don't agree that going without a mage in the first half of the game is much of a loss since the first three mages all start off rather bad IMO. I'd rather use Lethe/Mordecai and drop them when I get Calill (or perhaps use Muarim/Stefan for a bit in the middle, etc.), that is if I'm going to use any mage at all.

Heal restores a fine amount of HP, it's just not needed. Thanks to the incredible amount of avoid generated by some supports (Ike's, Oscar's, Kieran's, etc.) as well as Sol/Aether, healing is only rarely needed later on. Since I already have one healer (with access to Physic if needed), as well as Reyson to give them an extra turn if for some reason I actually want that, the value of a second healer is very low, especially one that can't use Restore or Physic.

PoR is nice is that you don't need to use a mage, but I just don't feel right going most of the game without one. I never felt Soren or even Ilyana needed that much babying to get going. After a chapter or two, they usually take off, especially Soren, unless you get RNG screwed, but that applies to just about any unit.

Funny story, I was playing PoR in front of my better half, kind of doin my own private little Let's Play, and introducing the characters as I got them. When I got Oscar, I was saying "Oh, Oscar always turns out pretty good." Then Oscar went on to get RNG screwed in just about everything, before getting benched after I just had to give up on him.

[Quintessence]

Right on Chapter 8 and 9 you have a pool of BEXP to swim in, so Soren or Ilyana won't have issues.

[Snowy_One]

You know what's nice? No tier list debate has started. *sigh* It's so... nice. Peaceful. Finally... Maybe the fight is over. Am I the last soldier to head home?

[Sweet_Basil]

Calill is my favorite, but I also like Tormod and Ilyana.

[Quintessence]

You know what's nice? No tier list debate has started. *sigh* It's so... nice. Peaceful. Finally... Maybe the fight is over. Am I the last soldier to head home?

That's probably a thing of the past where there were more hardcore veteran players than new ones. Nowadays people don't have interest on Tiers.

[Cornguy]

Soren and Calill are probably the easiest to use, but you can use Ilyana fairly easily if you like her. Don't recommend Tormod as he joins underleveled and will be tough to use if you don't save a lot of BEXP for him.

There's no real answer though, but for ease of use, I'd still recommend Soren and Calill.