FE6xna

[Dunal]

5 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

i'm currently drudging through fe14 so if I see anything interesting I'll see what I can do; the skill seems all right from the description though; like mirror armor or something like that from final fantasy

Anything that's suited to make her an anti-mage would be cool. I'm personally not a fan of Paragon because while it does help out a unit early on, once they've caught up to speed, they just end up surpassing others easily if their growths are semi-decent. Basically the whole too weak > too strong issue. At both ends it doesn't feel right. +20-50% EXP is better to balance at the very least, not +100% (fates had the right idea with one of Corrin's passives; I think it's +20% EXP only?). However, you've pretty much done this in terms of class EXP differentiators.  

Speaking of mages, ever thought about giving some tomes 2-3 range? (I've personally done fire & light 1-2 range, thunder & dark 1 range, Wind 2-3 range)

When first experimenting with this myself I was initially sceptical, but it works really well in practice -- making mages more interesting and distinct, and offer more counterplay (also helps justify using multiple mages with different types). For instance, I designed wind to have both bad MT and be super heavy; but also offer utility (debuff/status) and damage from a greater range. Thunder the complete opposite -- nutty MT/CRT and bonus skill procs, but no range beyond melee.

So someone like Lugh could be utility based -- offering good chip damage with debuffs/single turn statuses from a long range. Lilina with high offensive potential and being able to counter at both 1 and 2 range. And Hugh being a tankier 1-range thunder user, as well as Raigh but with dark (dark magic giving an 'aura' that reduces physical damage taken and negates special effects like brave weapons). Sophia could have a personal skill that extends the range of melee tomes by 1, making her super powerful outside of actual stats -- obviously far squishier than Raigh.

I'd experiment IMO. You might not end up liking it -- a lot of this is just my own perception/opinion. But worth trying some stuff (you might end up with a completely different system than my own -- but anything to make magi less bland than they currently are).

Edited January 21, 2017 by DLuna

[Wayward Winds]

FYI, on the "official names" topic, notice how there's suddenly an inconsistency with at least one name.

In FE7, we have Murdock.  According to the Emblem Warriors FE6 list, he's apparently called Marduk instead.

This isn't a fan translation issue, this is two supposedly official sources contradicting each other.

Otherwise, most of the names the site gives us are the ones we've used ever since the first fan translation of FE6 turned up, with only minor spelling changes (although I can't say I like calling a character on the side of good "Sin").

(You might find this analysis/reaction to the new names amusing: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/5ow6at/in_defense_of_some_of_the_new_fe6_english_names/ (and yes, it also facepalms at the the Murdock/Marduk change.))

Specifically on FE6xna, I'm slowly playing through but am still back at Ch. 3, so I'll give feedback when I'm further along (or if I encounter something especially good/bad).  It's pretty darn good so far though!

[Chocolate Kitty]

8 hours ago, DLuna said:

Anything that's suited to make her an anti-mage would be cool. I'm personally not a fan of Paragon because while it does help out a unit early on, once they've caught up to speed, they just end up surpassing others easily if their growths are semi-decent. Basically the whole too weak > too strong issue. At both ends it doesn't feel right. +20-50% EXP is better to balance at the very least, not +100% (fates had the right idea with one of Corrin's passives; I think it's +20% EXP only?). However, you've pretty much done this in terms of class EXP differentiators.  

Speaking of mages, ever thought about giving some tomes 2-3 range? (I've personally done fire & light 1-2 range, thunder & dark 1 range, Wind 2-3 range)

When first experimenting with this myself I was initially sceptical, but it works really well in practice -- making mages more interesting and distinct, and offer more counterplay (also helps justify using multiple mages with different types). For instance, I designed wind to have both bad MT and be super heavy; but also offer utility (debuff/status) and damage from a greater range. Thunder the complete opposite -- nutty MT/CRT and bonus skill procs, but no range beyond melee.

So someone like Lugh could be utility based -- offering good chip damage with debuffs/single turn statuses from a long range. Lilina with high offensive potential and being able to counter at both 1 and 2 range. And Hugh being a tankier 1-range thunder user, as well as Raigh but with dark (dark magic giving an 'aura' that reduces physical damage taken and negates special effects like brave weapons). Sophia could have a personal skill that extends the range of melee tomes by 1, making her super powerful outside of actual stats -- obviously far squishier than Raigh.

I'd experiment IMO. You might not end up liking it -- a lot of this is just my own perception/opinion. But worth trying some stuff (you might end up with a completely different system than my own -- but anything to make magi less bland than they currently are).

there's a lot here to look at, but I have been trying to make magic more diverse as of late, since rarely i switch weapons outside of a chance to miss being lower. I had wind magic 1-3 range, fire 1-2 range, and thunder 2-3 range at some point in my older projects, but I'm not a big fan of that completely. I'll mess around with somethings and see where they lead. Regarding debuffs... Idk, I can at least make them show up on the UI but as far as I know I can't make stat changes happen after the fights instead of during them. It's probably a simple change though for specific things like status to start affecting you post-battle rather than in the middle of it.

For paragon idk I haven't really looked into it much, I reduced exp gain overall so I never saw it as an issue. Maybe I overlooked it.

oh right @names *big shrug*

Edited January 21, 2017 by Chocolate Kitty

[Chocolate Kitty]

15 hours ago, DLuna said:

Anything that's suited to make her an anti-mage would be cool. I'm personally not a fan of Paragon because while it does help out a unit early on, once they've caught up to speed, they just end up surpassing others easily if their growths are semi-decent. Basically the whole too weak > too strong issue. At both ends it doesn't feel right. +20-50% EXP is better to balance at the very least, not +100% (fates had the right idea with one of Corrin's passives; I think it's +20% EXP only?). However, you've pretty much done this in terms of class EXP differentiators.  

Speaking of mages, ever thought about giving some tomes 2-3 range? (I've personally done fire & light 1-2 range, thunder & dark 1 range, Wind 2-3 range)

When first experimenting with this myself I was initially sceptical, but it works really well in practice -- making mages more interesting and distinct, and offer more counterplay (also helps justify using multiple mages with different types). For instance, I designed wind to have both bad MT and be super heavy; but also offer utility (debuff/status) and damage from a greater range. Thunder the complete opposite -- nutty MT/CRT and bonus skill procs, but no range beyond melee.

So someone like Lugh could be utility based -- offering good chip damage with debuffs/single turn statuses from a long range. Lilina with high offensive potential and being able to counter at both 1 and 2 range. And Hugh being a tankier 1-range thunder user, as well as Raigh but with dark (dark magic giving an 'aura' that reduces physical damage taken and negates special effects like brave weapons). Sophia could have a personal skill that extends the range of melee tomes by 1, making her super powerful outside of actual stats -- obviously far squishier than Raigh.

I'd experiment IMO. You might not end up liking it -- a lot of this is just my own perception/opinion. But worth trying some stuff (you might end up with a completely different system than my own -- but anything to make magi less bland than they currently are).

there's a lot here to look at, but I have been trying to make magic more diverse as of late, since rarely i switch weapons outside of a chance to miss being lower. I had wind magic 1-3 range, fire 1-2 range, and thunder 2-3 range at some point in my older projects, but I'm not a big fan of that completely. I'll mess around with somethings and see where they lead. Regarding debuffs... Idk, I can at least make them show up on the UI but as far as I know I can't make stat changes happen after the fights instead of during them. It's probably a simple change though for specific things like status to start affecting you post-battle rather than in the middle of it.

For paragon idk I haven't really looked into it much, I reduced exp gain overall so I never saw it as an issue. Maybe I overlooked it.

[Chocolate Kitty]

this is what i got for a preliminary idea

now i have to test these things out

and possibly weapons will get an overhaul/look at

[Dunal]

I like the direction, however some comments though:

Fire seems fine but if the buffs are to the user, then +MAG seems redundant since you might as well just add that to the MT. Avoid giving buffs to weapons that have redundancy to what can just be provided to the base weapon. I don't think stat buffs/debuffs are necessary at all for magic though? I was more lending to the idea that magic types like wind should just debuff enemies like hidden weapons do in fates. Like -3 DEF/RES after combat (for 1 turn). It makes them utility focused, rather than damage.

Thunder is awful. In order to make 1 range magic viable you need to really make them powerful... not just 2-3 points of extra MT. Putting or forcing a mage to 1 range is quite the limitation. Especially since they aren't going to be as tanky or mobile as physical units. Higher CRT is superficial compared to other stats (wholly unreliable) as its more of a nice convenience/bonus than anything. 

Wind is far too good. Having access to 3 range is a massive, massive boon. If it provides utility as well, it should have the worst stats across the board. MT, WT, even HIT. I know from experience since I've tested a huge amount with this kind of setup. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have huge downsides. But I'm sure you'll realize this once you start testing.

The debuffs to enemies that you've listed will largely impact gameplay not at all (reducing their luck or skill by 1... eh). The actual utility they provide needs to be a lot more pronounced. And even then I would only provide utility 1 or 2 types of magic (like Wind and/or Dark). Keep things simple with only a couple types having an extra dynamic. Otherwise you run the risk of over-bloating mechanics. 

Dark magic should be special in some way considering its origins or scepticism in the Elibean universe. More-so than just raw stats.

For a frame of reference here is what I did for the first two tiers of each type:

Spoiler

FIRE: 5 MT, 80 HIT, 0 CRT, 6 WT, 2 RANGE (the lack of 1 range is contextually only because of counterplay for beast Laguz and a buff for enemy phase archers -- so mostly wouldn't apply for FE6. However strictly 2 range fire magic could be explored)

ELFIRE: 8 MT, 85 HIT, 5 CRT, 9 WT, 1-2 RANGE

THUNDER: 4 MT, 75 HIT, 5 CRT, 7 WT, 1-2 RANGE (basically just so thunder magi (Ilyana) actually have a weak 2 range option that can also be forged -- so this wouldn't apply to you unless you remove multi-ranks)

(IF I were to re-balance Thunder for 1 range: 9 MT, 85 HIT instead.)

ELTHUNDER: 13 MT, 90 HIT, 10 CRT, 10 WT, 1 RANGE (Seems super strong -- but it really isn't. It's still heavy and only has 5 MT over Elfire which has 2 range).

WIND: 2 MT, 65 HIT, 0 CRT, 8 WT, 3 RANGE (applies a mark/debuff where the enemy takes +X additional damage on their next received hit)

ELWIND: 5 MT, 70 HIT, 0 CRT, 11 WT, 2-3 RANGE (applies a mark/debuff where the enemy takes +X additional damage on their next received hit)

LIGHT: 3 MT, 100 HIT, 0 CRT, 3 WT, 1-2 range (deals +5 damage to dark magic and weaponry, in addition to WTA)

ELLIGHT: 7 MT, 80 HIT, 10 CRT, 7 WT, 1-2 range (deals +5 damage to dark magic and weaponry, in addition to WTA)

RUIN: 11 MT, 75 HIT, 0 CRT, 6 WT, 1 range (Aura: reduces damage taken by melee weapons and negates their special effects)

Obviously, this is just an example of my own changes. But offers my own perspective.

 

(The reason why HIT sometimes goes up between ranks is for even more power budget in regards to costs/uses of those tomes as well as taking into account forging and coins of the lesser tomes. Basically this would apply less to you)

Obviously FE10 and FE6 are very different games and therefore some things may need to be thought about and tested. But that gives an idea as to my own understanding.

Generally speaking though I feel you largely underestimated how powerful range is and how it affects gameplay. Shine > Divine for example. You've slapped on an extra range without any kind of drawback. However, range, whether that is higher of a lack thereof -- needs huge consideration (which should become more obvious when it comes to testing, trust me)

In the list so far, I'd actually consider Wind a lot better than Arcthunder (knight killing aside). 8 damage is absolutely nothing (mid/late game) when you're suddenly doubling, having up to 3 range rather than 1, having a whopping +30 HIT don't even need to train up rank, and is much cheaper to boot.

Also keep in mind that as the mid/late game rolls in, mages are doing a lot more damage than early on. So MT differences between tomes mean a lot less. It often means that you do need make MT scale between tomes higher as the game progresses (as well as the base MT of the time before it). Elwind gains 3 MT on Wind and Elthunder gains 3 MT on Thunder. But because of how each type works in terms of range -- the balance between them is vastly in the wind type's favor.

Honestly? For the time being, I'd only plan out stats for all tier 1 tomes. Test heavily. Then plan out tier 2 tomes and rinse and repeat.

Also, if Lilina is still the Thunder Mage (although I'd personally change her to fire) she's going to need a personal skill than helps her out with this. Something like: "Magical Barrier: Negates the first source of damage taken each turn (refreshes at the start of player phase)". (In fact I support a skill like this far more than Miracle which I've always disliked as a skill -- which promotes playing badly and is RNG to boot. It's thematic on Deik though considering his pit-fighting history -- and it's not like he needs a better skill).

Technically speaking you don't need to change her from the Thunder Mage, just make sure you balance her according. I just don't think giving her high HP/DEF suits her, so a personal skill seems perfect.

 

All in all -- yeah, rethink how range should be valued. A steel axe (Elthunder) just doesn't compete with a 1-3-range Javelin with huge HIT (Wind). Think of it from that perspective and it becomes quite clear. Balance magic how you would physical weapons (and then some, considering the usual movement/durability limitations of casters). 

Granted, not everything is going to be balanced to begin with; huge iteration and testing is needed for that. So just start on the lower/earlier side of things and build up from there.

Sorry for the wall of text! I just enjoy going into depth on things like this -- and excited of the prospect of a fully realized FE6.

At the very least, the end result should allow you to deploy far more enemy magi due to counterplay and nuance.  Then you can balance RES values on all units accordingly (and with more diversity) to be as meaningful as DEF.

Edited January 22, 2017 by DLuna

[Chocolate Kitty]

oh right i never actually touched any of the hitrates or weights just copied them down

that was a mistake

 

wind debuffs are not very strong due to probably the best buff(bonus speed) and high range(1-3)
fire buffs help with the mage skill reciprocity which lowers magic weight based on user's mag/3 or some formula similar, and is intentionally not very impactful so it can stand as the "neutral" magic

dark i had considered making entirely special but i haven't figured out how/seems like it could get complicated

but yeah i haven't tested any of this yet, but I will put your suggestions into consideration/practice and see what the result is

 

oh right shit range decreases automatically the farther the attack range(or at least it should) for magic and bows(only for 3+ range)

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Chocolate Kitty

[Dunal]

Quote

dark i had considered making entirely special but i haven't figured out how/seems like it could get complicated

A defensive aura would work well. At least, that's what I went with. But there's a lot of options. Inflicting a 'slow' or damage debuff as well. Whatever you think adds more to the game. 

Just to mention, don't be surprised if some people/players are adverse to changes like this (some people believe that change=bad, especially when it comes to the GBA formula) even when it comes to systems that have room for improvement (the issue with enemy mages being annoying/binary to deal with). But you probably know all that already.

A good way to tackle perceptions like that is to introduce scenarios early on in the game that showcase the positive impact of the changes. For example, place only 1 range mages (thunder users) in CH3 (and more of them) to show that the changes made now lets the player retaliate on certain enemy mages on enemy phase (without needing handaxes/javs etc...). Lugh even starts with Wind magic to counter them, so it's perfect. Suddenly the player now thinks "Man, these wacky magic changes seemed silly at first, but now I get it!". At least, that's the idea.

I think I learned as such by watching someone's stream playing this. They completely ignored the fast route in CH5 and then blamed the map/design for being slow... When all you need is a door key / Chad to open the door. Solution: Make Roy/Merlinus make a statement at the start of the map to tell the player that using a key/lockpick can help them pass through the faster route.

This could be considered hand holding or reinforcing obvious information. But in game design it's completely necessary because those who lack intuition (or patience to try things) will miss things and will either have a harder time; or blame the game/creator for things outside of context. 

 

Other examples are:

The bottom path in CH3. Most players will ignore it because it's far too narrow and not eye catching. I was the same at first.

Chad's poison. Create a Lyn mode-esque cut scene where Shad poisons an enemy and tells Roy/the player he is now weakened for the kill. Or just flat out make the poison effect more obvious. Perhaps the previous suggestion is a bit too naff?

Door in CH5.

The need for chest and door keys in CH6. Make some mention of needing a lot of these in advance. Otherwise the player will be frustrated. Although I would personally  re-design the map to some degree... if you're keeping it the same then something needs to be done at least.

Cath in CH6? Roy wants to talk to Sue. Roy wants to go out and kill things. Roy wants to seize the throne. Roy does not want to stand idly just to talk to Cath. Again, a re-design of the map would help this a lot, but Cath is just an awkward aspect that some players will be annoyed at. Even if the original FE6 was the same.

CH8.... as a whole? Boy, if people think some of the earlier maps are 'slow' then... heh.

Maybe even mention of rescuing in CH2? Marcus: "Roy! We must lend our arms to the Mercenary group up north. Let me carry you so that we may aid them with utmost urgency!". Something like that. This is teaching the player basic concepts... but let's be honest here-- most players don't think to take advantage of stuff like this to make the game better/faster or to make them better players. 

They otherwise blame the map design for not taking advantage of said feature. Game is suddenly "slow". FE6 has very big maps with a lot of dead space so teaching them basic stuff like rescuing might actually be a good idea. Granted, said 'dead space' could be avoided where appropriate *coughCH8cough*.

 

Just some things to consider. Often times, game design is a matter of the audience/people playing it. If there's one thing to mention; lack of context can make changes questionable even if said changes are actually for the better. Player psychology is just as important as the actual game design. It doesn't help that fangames are often prone to auto-criticism (even when it doesn't apply). And what might be superfluous to some may be really important for others (story/dialogue is a good example of this). 

Basically, when you make potential changes to a game, you need to convince others why it's a good implementation/change, not just yourself or a group of testers. You need to, in a sense, ham-fist it's implementation by using smart game design to demonstrate why its there. "1-range magic? That's terrible! Why would--... Oh... now I can reliably do damage to them on enemy phase. Neat. Okay, that's actually really nice".

(Always try and imagine yourself as a blind player. Design a game based on that. Because nobody is going to immediately understand your design choices and will judge the game as a whole on that. The game doesn't explain something that isn't completely obvious? Don't expect all players to notice it, and shun the design as a result).

Edited January 22, 2017 by DLuna

[SullyMcGully]

Have you considered making dark magic drain the user's HP? Gaiden-style. You could make it extremely powerful to offset that weakness. It kinda goes together with the way dark magic is thought of in the Elibean games, where using too much dark magic was believed to result in physical and emotional troubles for the user. The biggest problem I see with it is that, with dark magic being the only weapon shamans can use, you would severely limit their usefulness unless they had access to a less lethal magic to use as a backup.

[Dunal]

12 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Have you considered making dark magic drain the user's HP? Gaiden-style. You could make it extremely powerful to offset that weakness. It kinda goes together with the way dark magic is thought of in the Elibean games, where using too much dark magic was believed to result in physical and emotional troubles for the user. The biggest problem I see with it is that, with dark magic being the only weapon shamans can use, you would severely limit their usefulness unless they had access to a less lethal magic to use as a backup.

Not necessarily -- Dark Magic could provide defensive benefits to make up for the HP loss.

However, Reigh could have thunder magic or something as a secondary magic type. Sophia could have light magic (with a ying/yang styled personal skill that promotes switching between light & dark? I did something similar with Micaiah). Niime having wind (she canonically has ice magic which is categorized as wind in FE).

I like the idea of dark magic draining HP or having some kind of notable drawback, in any case.

Edited January 22, 2017 by DLuna

[Chocolate Kitty]

I figured the weight of dark magic was enough, but an idea worth considering at least

[Dunal]

2 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

I figured the weight of dark magic was enough, but an idea worth considering at least

Weight is kinda skew-y though. CON and SPD values impact how relevant that actually is. And in essence, weight only impacts AS which can be a lopsided metric to balance. Doubling and/or not doubling creates circumstances that are extreme to balance by. I'd personally blame the way SPD works itself, but generally speaking there are more reliable and consistent ways to provide an actual penalty.

To simplify things; in the scenario that a dark user would double regardless of WT, there is technically zero drawback. If that dark user were to not double regardless of WT due to low speed or high enemy speed... again, there's zero drawback. So the circumstances that WT matters... is situational. Which is a questionable form of penalty.

 

To give examples:

Druid vs. Swordmaster: Swordmaster would double regardless of dark magic weight (assuming Druid SPD is 4 or less anyway).

Druid vs. Paladin: Druid may or may not double here (or be doubled), so weight of dark magic may actually matter.

Druid vs. General: Druid will double regardless of dark magic weight.

 

Weight of weaponry is a peculiar attribute. Only one of those three cases did WT do anything potentially significant.

 

Granted, this may or may not be true based on how you balance class stats and other factors. It's just to provide brief examples.

 

(It does matter more though based on other magic types units can use alongside dark)

Edited January 22, 2017 by DLuna

[Corrobin]

Oh, this game looks cool. Can't wait to see this.

Adding on to the "Magic balance" talk, I always use this guide:

Wind is light and accurate, but not very strong and has lower crit chance.

Thunder is strong and can crit more often, but it's heavy and inaccurate.

Fire's the in-between: decent all-around, but not as strong in individual categories.

Light's has low weight and high Crit, but isn't that accurate or strong.

Dark's powerful and accurate, but heavy and has low Crit.

 

But then again, that might not apply considering what you're talking about. Take it with a grain of salt.

[Chocolate Kitty]

4 hours ago, DLuna said:

And in essence, weight only impacts AS which can be a lopsided metric to balance.

Not exactly; it affects avoid as well, but I see where you're trying to go with this

And with Warlocks being heavy mages, they aren't doubling generals unless extreme circumstances.; but that's less important.

 

 

[Dunal]

9 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

Not exactly; it affects avoid as well, but I see where you're trying to go with this

And with Warlocks being heavy mages, they aren't doubling generals unless extreme circumstances.; but that's less important.

 

 

That's true. But then again, avoid only really matters much if you have a lot of it to begin with (therefore being able to dodge tank). Speaking of dodge tanking -- it's why fatigue/biorhythm would be really good. Consistently being able to dodgetank is basically when you've 'won' the game/map. I suppose enemies just need to have good/better hit overall to avoid these scenarios in the first place. 

[Chocolate Kitty]

sorry for the lack of replies; my power keeps cutting out >_>

that's what I ended up with after a bit of debate; divine might be lowered a bit in accuracy but that's should be the only change
my hope was to give more of a reason to switch between weapon types for the anima triangle

as for the finalized unit list as well

skill list is in the works still, but shouldn't be very much changed from what it was originally

 

[Troykv]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

sorry for the lack of replies; my power keeps cutting out >_>

that's what I ended up with after a bit of debate; divine might be lowered a bit in accuracy but that's should be the only change
my hope was to give more of a reason to switch between weapon types for the anima triangle

as for the finalized unit list as well

skill list is in the works still, but shouldn't be very much changed from what it was originally

 

Which are the differences between Scholar/Heretic and Sorcerer/Warlock?

Edited January 25, 2017 by Troykv

[Chocolate Kitty]

scholar/heretic are "fast" mages(5-6 move, higher speed cap, lower mag cap), while sorcerer/warlock are "heavy" mages(4-5 move, lower speed cap, higher mag cap)

 

[Nébulya]

Spawning Rutoga without giving hints for the player is kinda..My Shad just got killed by a enemy that wasn't there at first, really frustrating. I think these enemies shouldn't move the turn they arrives. i just ragequit from this chapter and accidentally deleted my save so i won't play it further (i really don't want to play these first chapters again)

But I liked these changes and new things (obviously the new portraits, I was hoping Roy could have a better one than vanilla ahah) 

 

[Chocolate Kitty]

it was exactly the same in vanilla, but i already changed that in newer versions; pretty sure the public newest doesn't have that.

[Dunal]

7 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

sorry for the lack of replies; my power keeps cutting out >_>

 

that's what I ended up with after a bit of debate; divine might be lowered a bit in accuracy but that's should be the only change
my hope was to give more of a reason to switch between weapon types for the anima triangle

as for the finalized unit list as well

skill list is in the works still, but shouldn't be very much changed from what it was originally

 

Looks better now. But yeah... I feel you'll going to be making some more changes after running some tests. 

2 or 3 MT is apparently worth 1 less range... When magi are dealing 15-20+ damage in the late game you'll find that there'll be very little reason to not just use the higher range tome. Someone like Lilina will just want to max Wind because she already has high MAG to negate the (minor) damage loss, if not everyone else. Triple her effective range for only 4 damage loss? Unless you're locking magic types further (so someone like Lilina can only use Thunder now) and balancing the units accordingly (which can help negate some magic types being better than others).

Divine doesn't need 3 range. Judging by the other stats it has, it seems a bit random without compensating anything. Keep this niche to Wind.

 

Otherwise, buff all 1 range tomes by 2 MT. Nerf all 3 range tomes by a further 1 MT. Then go from there. The MT gap is still far too close (especially in the mid/late game where damage values are a lot higher by default).

The standard wind tome shouldn't have 1 range. Having the luxury of 3 range should provide a definite weakness. This is more-so for enemies than yourself. Enemies being able to attack you at 3 range and then countering you at 1 range... Probably isn't very fun unless it's a really high level tome.

Of course, this is all coming from someone who's already tested this at length. For clarity, I actually had to end up locking the standard wind tome to 3 rng (no counter attacking at 1 or 2 range) because the early game mages would be obnoxious otherwise. Thunder/Elthunder etc.. had to have a lot more MT than otherwise predicted, because I found myself and testers just using other types all the time instead (or not using Ilyana). Elthunder had to have 13-14 MT before it felt 'decent'. And even then, it cannot counterattack ranged enemies, making it often inferior anyway in a lot of cases. 

That all said, It is/was still worth doing regardless for the sole purpose of having 1-range magical enemies -- which is amazing for enemy diversity/counterplay. Same with Dark magic.

 

I like a lot of the bonus effects/debuffs etc... that you've planned though. That's all good. MT based on range is the main thing that does need tweaking however. Fix that, and you've got a really solid setup.

Edited January 26, 2017 by DLuna

[Corrobin]

How about Wind tomes having 2-3 Range so they can't counter close up?

[Dunal]

10 hours ago, Corrobin said:

How about Wind tomes having 2-3 Range so they can't counter close up?

Elwind should be 2-3 range as well.

I feel that consistency for each magic type is very important. From a player standpoint, if a type of magic has varying ranges then it becomes non-intuitive. A player should be able to immediately look at the colour of tome and think "this has X range".

Consistency is also important to properly separate each type and give them their own niche, as well as easier balancing for units who can only use 1-2 types of magic.

So on a similar note, Divine should not have 3-range either. Elthunder should not have 2 range (didn't notice this one before actually -- is this an error? I'm guessing it is).

 

Dark magic may be fine though; it tends to have unique properties based on tome and will likely not show up as often. (Although you might want to colour code 1 range dark tomes as black and 1-2 tomes as purple/grey or something)

Edited January 26, 2017 by DLuna

[Chocolate Kitty]

1 hour ago, DLuna said:

So on a similar note, Divine should not have 3-range either. Elthunder should not have 2 range (didn't notice this one before actually -- is this an error? I'm guessing it is).

oh yeah that is an error lol; divine have not tested but I see your point in the consistency thing, as well as it adds a status effect already, so it's fine with 1-2 range.

i just switched all wind to 2-3 range(outside of the reaver/long range) and will see how that pans out. As for dark, idk about color coding since to check the range you just highlight the unit

 

[Elfire]

I'm not sure if this is a known bug or not, but when I played through the hack, Sue straight up didn't spawn at all for me. Is there some additional criteria to recruiting her?