Dunal Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said: some of those don't need skills to differentiate; rutger and fir for example have different join times. Rutger is easier to use than fir, so will have better bases, but fir will have better growths TBF, the whole bases vs. growths things may be the least creative way to balance them as a whole, IMO. You just end up with a bunch of pseudo-Ests. And based on how difficult the lategame is, may make them either flat out better/mandatory or redundant/overkill in comparison. Interesting skills and/or different/favourable stat lines would be better off. Someone like Ogier could well start of decent at base (LV7-9) but just with a very different stat line and skills compared to Dieck. This not only makes Dieck feel less bad to use long term, but also makes Ogier immediately useful (without eventually overshadowing Dieck). The choice to use either isn't as one-dimensional as early vs. lategame, but a concious choice on what you want in a unit based on the rest of your team comp. It also massively supports a fatigue system as well. It starts to become a bit mundane or annoying when you're forced to use these "growth" units that need moderate investment to start being good (who you may or may not want to train in the first place) and then late game arrives and the complete opposite occurs for the 'base' units that will just be straight up inferior. Granted, some Est-type units is fine, but not more than a couple IMO (and by 'Est' I mean anyone that begins in a position where they are hindering your strategy/play-style by forcing you to funnel them kills to get them somewhere.. then at some stage they're just better than your other units, leaving them very little room for them to just be on the same power-curve as everyone else). And of course, if we're talking 5-10% higher growths across the board, then the base units will still be flat out better. Because an extra 1 or 2 stats every 20 level ups isn't going much to make up for a notable early lead. Early lead = more EXP gained due to contributing more. More EXP gained = more levels to gain more stats (regardless of growths). More stats = Maintaining and even accelerating their lead. Growth units rarely ever work (or are just plain inferior) in FE for this reason. Unless it's really extreme. Like FE5's Mareeta or Sara. It does depend on class though. Growth-based healers/thieves work far better than Armor Knights, for example. The former you can make work immediately without causing disruption in your playstyle/strategy. The latter is completely non-sensual since the concept behind armors is that you're already sacrificing something by lumbering them around. Having them actually be weak by successfully getting them from point A to B.. is a hard sell. That's why Gwendy may actually need some kind of extra consideration, and probably needs to have decent bases to a degree (even if it's something like huge base RES to give her a starting niche). Edited February 20, 2017 by DLuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Wait, Ellen and Saul just had different gendered versions of the same class (Cleric vs. Priest) in vanilla FE6. Are you making Saul a Monk now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 yeah he's been a monk for a while lol no point in giving you three staff bots in 6 chapters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 But then who's the diviner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 hyde (it's staying fe7x exclusive) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Oh really? Get an old-man hyde in there. Are scholars+ 7x exclusive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 hopefully not because it's what lleu is also, two things: one, i created a discord channel for fe6xna. I'll probably be there more than here as of late, so you two: if anyone has a world map of elibe without anything on it outside of the terrain, it would be glady appreciated and utilized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Is it weird that I thought of a skill for Roy? Ice Dragon Blood: Ninian, the Ice Dragon Eliwood married, lives on through her son Roy. Engaging in direct combat with Roy cuts the enemy's Speed in half for the next Phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunal Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Corrobin said: Is it weird that I thought of a skill for Roy? Ice Dragon Blood: Ninian, the Ice Dragon Eliwood married, lives on through her son Roy. Engaging in direct combat with Roy cuts the enemy's Speed in half for the next Phase. Roy's current personal skill gives him additional HIT/AVO when lower levelled than the opponent. He then also has lower EXP gain in return for growths; to keep this relevant. The current demo already has a lot of things completed/established. It's a more generalist skill that is relevant most of the time. I think the idea you've presented is too situational. A debuffing skill would be more relevant for a support/ranged unit as well. Speaking of which, I'd honestly like Fates/Heroes daggers/throwing weapons to make an appearance. I feel that the custom damage formula for thieves is a bit gimmicky (as much as I like most of FEXNA's other mechanics) and debuffing weapons add a niche to them that makes them feel different and valued in combat (although some types of magic could have the trait as well -- or in the form of a class skill). They would then gain bonus EXP (5-10) whenever they inflict a debuff on top of the standard non-lethal EXP. This means they do not need to land killing blows to take EXP, but can level by being a support unit like a healer (or by looting as well). As such, daggers could be a sub-type of swords but are exclusive to thieves. But they can also use all other swords as well. They're basically just a class specific weapon like the Wo Dao. Or you could just have Daggers be its own weapon type. Guess that works too. Poison weapons are not the most elegant approach to the concept as well IMO, since you can end up making your more powerful units debuff enemies as well as be heavy hitters. Thieves can use them at two range but eh -- I think that in practice, you won't bother with using them for combat in the long run. The poison weapons will just go to whoever can abuse them the most. On a similar note, you could further improve combat for them by having a 'Mug' skill/command as a Rogue, where they can steal and attack at the same time (or this could be a level 10 thief skill or something). If they then kill the enemy, the item is received. This can be used at range with a dagger. Poison weapons could instead work exactly as the 'Poison Strike' skill works in Fates/Heroes. After combat, enemies hit by it will take 5-8 flat (non-lethal) damage or something. This makes them really useful for weakening enemies for your other units to take kills. This could even be used in the form of skills as well. Astolfo could have it, for example. Or Reigh. And on the topic of skills, I'm guessing that Sol/Astra/Luna etc... (RNG based skills) will make an appearance. If there's one great thing about FE Heroes, is that instead of being RNG (which we already have crits for) they count down over time and then activate at a fixed rate. I think FE7x has done something similar, but it would be cool if the countdown was much lower in return for less powerful applications. Astra could be x0.4 damage 5 times (so in total it's only x2 damage) But the swordmaster only needs 2 or 3 combats for it to activate. This means you can have those cool moments more often, but less gamebreaking and not RNG. You could even incorporate this into personal skills. Wolt could have a personal that makes him cripple an enemy (prevents them from moving for 1 turn like a Freeze staff) after every 3 attacks or so. That would make him the 'utility' Archer while Dorothy is the 'raw damage' one. Kind of the same direction I went with Leonardo in FE10, where he has innate Disarm (with massive SKL) and extra HIT with longbows, but his damage is still lower than other snipers. Just some further ideas to contribute. Edited March 1, 2017 by DLuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Interesting ideas. I just wanted Roy to have a skill that takes advantage of his half-dragon nature or something. I was wondering, could Roy get Aether after promotion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunal Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Corrobin said: Interesting ideas. I just wanted Roy to have a skill that takes advantage of his half-dragon nature or something. I was wondering, could Roy get Aether after promotion? If anything, I'd I could see the ranged Sword of Seals aspect to be directly possible because of said heritage. Perhaps-- him being a dependant of Dragons allows him to fully utilize the weapon. He's also a quarter-dragon, not Half. Ninian was half-dragon. I'd prefer Aether to be iconic to Ike, so something else may be better. Going from what I mentioned before, perhaps the ranged element of SoS is now not based on the weapon (it certainly isn't in FE Heroes), but innate to Roy. As such, Roy's class skill at tier 2 is being able to have 2-range on every sword, engulfing the weapon in flames. The skill simply named: Dragon's Breath. Edited March 1, 2017 by DLuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enaluxeme Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 That makes sense. It always baffled me how both the Durandal and the Sword of Seals were fire swords. Leave the fire to the titular Sword of Flames, Binding Blade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) That sounds cool. I would totally be all for it. Speaking of, how about Roy using himself and Fa as proof to Yahn that humans and Dragons can coexist? That would be cool as well. Edited March 1, 2017 by Corrobin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, DLuna said: Roy's current personal skill gives him additional HIT/AVO when lower levelled than the opponent. He then also has lower EXP gain in return for growths; to keep this relevant. The current demo already has a lot of things completed/established. It's a more generalist skill that is relevant most of the time. I think the idea you've presented is too situational. I would agree with this, and I'm trying to not shove EliwoodxNinina canon down your throat as well. A debuffing skill would be more relevant for a support/ranged unit as well. Might be making an appearance... Speaking of which, I'd honestly like Fates/Heroes daggers/throwing weapons to make an appearance. I feel that the custom damage formula for thieves is a bit gimmicky (as much as I like most of FEXNA's other mechanics) and debuffing weapons add a niche to them that makes them feel different and valued in combat (although some types of magic could have the trait as well -- or in the form of a class skill). They would then gain bonus EXP (5-10) whenever they inflict a debuff on top of the standard non-lethal EXP. This means they do not need to land killing blows to take EXP, but can level by being a support unit like a healer (or by looting as well). As such, daggers could be a sub-type of swords but are exclusive to thieves. But they can also use all other swords as well. They're basically just a class specific weapon like the Wo Dao. Or you could just have Daggers be its own weapon type. Guess that works too. I don't think I'm going to be doing that, mainly because I'm sticking to the general gba formula with a few additions; this would change far too much for my comfort. I also thought debuffing every 10 seconds was the most annoying thing ever. However, I think I did increase the exp gain for chip damage on thieves already. Poison weapons are not the most elegant approach to the concept as well IMO, since you can end up making your more powerful units debuff enemies as well as be heavy hitters. Thieves can use them at two range but eh -- I think that in practice, you won't bother with using them for combat in the long run. The poison weapons will just go to whoever can abuse them the most. Poison wasn't made for debuffing, it was more to make it a relevant status that has some kind of tactical advantage when used correctly. It's a D rank weapon, you shouldn't be using it in the long run. On a similar note, you could further improve combat for them by having a 'Mug' skill/command as a Rogue, where they can steal and attack at the same time (or this could be a level 10 thief skill or something). If they then kill the enemy, the item is received. This can be used at range with a dagger. I had considered this for Astolfo actually, just not certain how to code it yet; but since he is more of a combat unit(better str/def/ growths than the other thieves, as well as assassin promotion), not sure if I'll end up doing it. Poison weapons could instead work exactly as the 'Poison Strike' skill works in Fates/Heroes. After combat, enemies hit by it will take 5-8 flat (non-lethal) damage or something. This makes them really useful for weakening enemies for your other units to take kills. This could even be used in the form of skills as well. Astolfo could have it, for example. Or Reigh. Another thing I thought was annoying as hell and don't think I'd use for anything, much less for FE6. The closest I'd consider would be the Fury skill from Heroes. And on the topic of skills, I'm guessing that Sol/Astra/Luna etc... (RNG based skills) will make an appearance. If there's one great thing about FE Heroes, is that instead of being RNG (which we already have crits for) they count down over time and then activate at a fixed rate. I think FE7x has done something similar, but it would be cool if the countdown was much lower in return for less powerful applications. Astra could be x0.4 damage 5 times (so in total it's only x2 damage) But the swordmaster only needs 2 or 3 combats for it to activate. This means you can have those cool moments more often, but less gamebreaking and not RNG. They charge every turn to remove the RNG element a bit, but retain it with the charge rate being affected by a stat(I think). I did like that element from Heroes as well, but don't think I'd add it to FE6. You could even incorporate this into personal skills. Wolt could have a personal that makes him cripple an enemy (prevents them from moving for 1 turn like a Freeze staff) after every 3 attacks or so. That would make him the 'utility' Archer while Dorothy is the 'raw damage' one. Kind of the same direction I went with Leonardo in FE10, where he has innate Disarm (with massive SKL) and extra HIT with longbows, but his damage is still lower than other snipers. I like the idea on Wolt, and I already added a Cripple status effect; I think I put it on Sin though because I thought it fit him better. Wolt would benefit more from it though I think. Just some further ideas to contribute. woo this is a lot okay, bold will be the replies 5 hours ago, DLuna said: I'd prefer Aether to be iconic to Ike, so something else may be better. Going from what I mentioned before, perhaps the ranged element of SoS is now not based on the weapon (it certainly isn't in FE Heroes), but innate to Roy. As such, Roy's class skill at tier 2 is being able to have 2-range on every sword, engulfing the weapon in flames. The skill simply named: Dragon's Breath.I'd also never give Aether to someone not Ike. I think it's lame they just turned into the default lord skill :/ Roy's current ultimate skill is "Lion's Rage", but tbh I have no idea what it's going to do hahaha... More pressing matters to deal with 5 hours ago, Corrobin said: That sounds cool. I would totally be all for it. Speaking of, how about Roy using himself and Fa as proof to Yahn that humans and Dragons can coexist? That would be cool as well. I guess? Yahn is a crotchety old man, who cares what his opinion is; let's just kill 'em :D Edited March 2, 2017 by Chocolate Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 By the way, have you changed how supports work mechanically now? Also, please make Gale recruitable in the main game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SullyMcGully Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Corrobin said: By the way, have you changed how supports work mechanically now? Also, please make Gale recruitable in the main game. Don't make Gale playable. His death in the original was supposed to be sad, and with a bit of re-translation, it can be that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlyn Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 hours ago, SullyMcGully said: Don't make Gale playable. His death in the original was supposed to be sad, and with a bit of re-translation, it can be that way. I agree with this, but I think Gale does deserve a chapter for himself: I didn't connect that much with him since I was frustrated by all the shit you had to face in the chapter (-_-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Gale isn't going to be playable in the main campaign. Originally I planned to have paralogues that explore the invasion of Sacae and Ilia. If that ever comes into fruition, Brunya, Kel, Dayan, Rath, and Lyn will make appearances in the Sacae route, while Murdoch, Galle, Juno, and Sigune will be in the Ilian route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruggov Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I wonder if you make Gale's death avoidable, like in FE6? AFAIK he stops attacking you in certain conditions, making clearing the chapter without killing him pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André The kid Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hey there! When I Try opening the Game, it only shows your disclaimer, and then it Crashes and closes, meaning that i cannot play the game. Anything i can do? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyon's Dirge Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 How do I patch the rom with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, André The kid said: Hey there! When I Try opening the Game, it only shows your disclaimer, and then it Crashes and closes, meaning that i cannot play the game. Anything i can do? Thanks in advance. hm I have no idea honestly, do you have all of the .net frameworks and such installed? 1 hour ago, Lyon's Dirge said: How do I patch the rom with this? not sure if troll but fe4 it's not a hack, you just run the program Edited March 8, 2017 by Chocolate Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 More character differences question! Chad/Astol/Cath Dieck or Ogier/Echidna Wade or Lott/Bartre Raigh/Sophia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André The kid Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said: hm I have no idea honestly, do you have all of the .net frameworks and such installed? The Framework was up to date, had to update XNA. Framework, but even after it, the game would only get to the disclaimer before crashing :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arekasu Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hello! It doenst work for me.. when i try to open the game it just doenst react at all. (Win 10) ._. Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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