The Absolute Worst Fire Emblem Characters.

[joshcja]

@ Doesn't You mean reverse lunatic right? I'm sure he'll be fine, vantage is bad.

On topic I'm pretty sure the worst unit title goes to one of FE12's free silvers that actively cost turns to recruit. I'd say Est but she's actually useful in the prologue with some MU builds.

Edited March 1, 2017 by joshcja

[SpearOfLies]

On 27/2/2017 at 1:00 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

As I see it, it's better than tempting fate. Also, I never fail to be surprised by how nonchalant people can be about the risk of crits. All told, I'm not against trying something unorthodox.

*coffcoff*

51 minutes ago, joshcja said:

@ Doesn't You mean reverse lunatic right? I'm sure he'll be fine, vantage is bad.

I hardly believe he can survive chapter 4 on lunatic. Less chapter 5. Unless he decide to skip them. Birthright is too easy while revelation start to hit you from ninja village chapter. Conquest no comment.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, DoesntKnowHowToPlay said:

@Levant Mir Celestia: Ever played FE12 on Lunatic? Might be an enlightening experience for you.

Also here's a short visual explanation of why I like Arthur despite the fact that he is prone to getting crit at unfortunate times.

Here's another one, which can be optimized much further with better skilling that I was too lazy to go for in a first run

I'm sure it would... For all the wrong reasons, that is. Why do you ask?

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

14 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'm sure it would... For all the wrong reasons, that is. Why do you ask?

It's very difficult, to the point that taking some risks is basically mandatory. Devil weapons are surprisingly useful because the risk of hitting yourself is worth being able to actually kill certain enemies before they get a chance to do anything. Killer weapons are legitimately useful because you can savescum to force a crit and pull maneuvers you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

I used to share a lot of your views, but playing FE12 changed them when I realized that sometimes, you just have to put up with a little risk for the greater good. At least go to Chapter 7 (I may be forgetting numbers, it's the giant forest with the thieves) and you'll see a very strong example of what I'm talking about.

Edited March 1, 2017 by DoesntKnowHowToPlay

[joshcja]

Also Totally-Not-Camus has Arthur stats and is borderline mandatory, the best Talent for MU is -luck fighter, and you forge/reclass constantly. So pretty much everything Levant hates.

Edited March 1, 2017 by joshcja

[SpearOfLies]

28 minutes ago, DoesntKnowHowToPlay said:

It's very difficult, to the point that taking some risks is basically mandatory. Devil weapons are surprisingly useful because the risk of hitting yourself is worth being able to actually kill certain enemies before they get a chance to do anything. Killer weapons are legitimately useful because you can savescum to force a crit and pull maneuvers you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

I agree. Chapter ten conques lunatict, the self damage ganglari help me less the pressure from left side. Manage to kill or not to kill change the amount of attack I take and the amount of attack I need to kill them. The amount of damage I take from the weapon is less than amount I take from their attack. Totally worthy.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, DoesntKnowHowToPlay said:

It's very difficult, to the point that taking some risks is basically mandatory. Devil weapons are surprisingly useful because the risk of hitting yourself is worth being able to actually kill certain enemies before they get a chance to do anything. Killer weapons are legitimately useful because you can savescum to force a crit and pull maneuvers you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

I used to share a lot of your views, but playing FE12 changed them when I realized that sometimes, you just have to put up with a little risk for the greater good. At least go to Chapter 7 (I may be forgetting numbers, it's the giant forest with the thieves) and you'll see a very strong example of what I'm talking about.

I suppose you do have a point. My issue with killer weapons largely lies with Radiant Dawn and Fates since they're weaker than steel (and the former has lots of enemies with high luck stats), as opposed to most games, where they were an upgrade over steel. Devil weapons... Well, the only games I played with them were the GBA games. And while it may be necessary to take some risks for the greater good, that second screenshot you posted shows one that I wouldn't consider acceptable. 

32 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

I agree. Chapter ten conques lunatict, the self damage ganglari help me less the pressure from left side. Manage to kill or not to kill change the amount of attack I take and the amount of attack I need to kill them. The amount of damage I take from the weapon is less than amount I take from their attack. Totally worthy.

I kinda wanna ask, knowing that Ganglari is B rank, how did you get to B swords before chapter 10?

[SpearOfLies]

22 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I kinda wanna ask, knowing that Ganglari is B rank, how did you get to B swords before chapter 10?

Using a lunatic enemy(cause they all have B rank weapon) or using My castle battle to farm weapon rank.

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, SpearOfLies said:

Using a lunatic enemy(cause they all have B rank weapon) or using My castle battle to farm weapon rank.

I'd assume it's the first one (which never crossed my mind since I find it hard to bother with Capture) - My Castle battles don't give WExp in Conquest.

[SpearOfLies]

16 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd assume it's the first one (which never crossed my mind since I find it hard to bother with Capture) - My Castle battles don't give WExp in Conquest.

I thought it does because you can farm support. I never bother to train it because I don't need it in hard. But you still can train it with Mozu paralogue. If you use enought your avatar before.

Or you can forge to make same damage but you seem dislike it.

Neither you are interest with my lunatic let's play to understand why I capture it.

[Just call me AL]

On 2/26/2017 at 8:08 AM, Hylian Air Force said:

The main problem exists that even the most well thought out contingencies are often accounted for by the enemy AI. If you take the time to understand just where you could go wrong, the game won't be able to screw you.

The enemy isn't often smart enough to account your strategies, though. After all, this is the same series whose first game had its enemies prioritize attacking Marth over other units including healers (which is one of the reasons why Marth was so broken in that game), and whose games period have its enemies employ Zerg Rush strategies. 

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Renewal, yes. PavGis, not so much. Also, IMHO, trying to say Sol is comparable to Renewal is akin to trying to say Shell Bell is comparable to Leftovers. I say this because in general, I'd have trouble trying to find any time I'd use the Shell Bell over Leftovers, other than where Item Clause is concerned, and even then, I could be using something better.

Saying that Shell Bell is comparable to Leftovers isn't really comparable to saying that Sol is comparable to Renewal, though. The Shell Bell doesn't heal meaningful HP to allow its user to go on longer whereas Sol does, while Leftovers and Renewal heal about the same HP amount. If anything, saying Sol is comparable to Renewal is like saying that a weapon with the Darkness and Drain abilities in Dark Cloud 2 is comparable to the same weapon with the Heal and Critical abilities in the same game. Or like saying Drain is comparable to Regen in Final Fantasy terms.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Maybe to you, but not to me - the bar for being strong in both games is night and day. Likewise, a luck stat that might be sufficient to avoid crits from mooks in one game might leave a unit crit-prone in another.

The bar for being strong in both games isn't really all that different. After all, the higher stats on enemies in Fates is offset by the higher stats on your own units in the same game.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That was the same tier list I was referring to. Also, that screenshot with Camilla facing a 6% crit chance? Camilla was paired up in that one. If she wasn't, she'd need 24 luck to face the same crit chance.

And what version of Fates are you playing that other units that aren't named Arthur or Percy aren't facing those same crit chances? Because it doesn't seem like such a version would be a legitimate version. Never-mind that in the aforementioned screenshot, Camilla was facing an enemy that she shouldn't be facing even if she faced a 0% crit chance unless if she was going CQC on him, if he has a very high chance of missing her, or if it was a mandatory action for the turn.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because a chance to instantly have to reset, or at least take triple damage, generally isn't something I'd want to entertain, especially repeatedly over the course of a single map.

Even though said chance is astronomically low? Because really, the chances of every attack with a 6% crit chance resulting with a crit is far lower than you're making it out to be. It's as high of a chance of a unit like Seth getting attacked by every enemy on a map in FE8 in a single turn and dying, and during a normal playthrough no less. Or as high as getting struck by lightning, Or as high as getting sent to the hospital just for eating a piece of food. Stop pretending that this isn't the case. After all, you've used this same line of logic in arguing against PoR!Stefan being a bad unit, and your argument got shot down then, and by multiple people. Why try to apply the same line of logic to a unit who's better in her own game than PoR!Stefan is in his?

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Why do you think I consider Arthur one of the worst units in Fates, and Berserker one of the worst classes in said game?

All I can really say in response to saying that Arthur is one of Fates' worst units (even though there are other units who are worse than him such as the one servant who isn't your Jagen, and Odin), and saying that Berseker is one of Fates' worst classes, is "get better at the game". Which I don't think anyone would do if they habitually do what they do every time the play.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Ignoring units I get on both BR and Conquest, that leaves, what, Effie, Selena, Soleil, and Peri? 

Which are all Conquest units. And what are you trying to say here?

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, it kind of is when most units don't have the luxury of getting the level 15 skills until late enough that their impact is fairly small overall (and Fates not resetting your levels when you reclass doesn't change that fact).

Except Fates is a game where the difficulty picks back up after most of who you're using gets past lvl 10. I wouldn't say the impact that Lvl 15 Skills is "overall fairly small" because of that. Also, wouldn't that mean that PavGis has a "small impact" itself, by your logic? Because those two skills are pretty much the last skills anyone would consider when choosing any Lvl 15 skills to put on their units.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Also, note that Fates is stricter on higher level units exp wise than the games that preceded it.

And your point is? I ask because that fact about Fates's EXP system doesn't really change what I'm saying. Especially since it means that effort spent in training your team can be spread more easily than in other games.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

As I see it, it's better than tempting fate.

Except you're not "tempting fate" by doing what just comes naturally. After all, no map where you face crit chances from a large number of enemies is a Kobayashi Maru in itself.

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Also, I never fail to be surprised by how nonchalant people can be about the risk of crits.

Don't you think that's because such a risk is so small, that it's astronomical, making it a non-issue?

On 2/26/2017 at 7:00 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

All told, I'm not against trying something unorthodox.

Doesn't seem that way to me.

[Shadow Mir]

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

Saying that Shell Bell is comparable to Leftovers isn't really comparable to saying that Sol is comparable to Renewal, though. The Shell Bell doesn't heal meaningful HP to allow its user to go on longer whereas Sol does, while Leftovers and Renewal heal about the same HP amount. If anything, saying Sol is comparable to Renewal is like saying that a weapon with the Darkness and Drain abilities in Dark Cloud 2 is comparable to the same weapon with the Heal and Critical abilities in the same game. Or like saying Drain is comparable to Regen in Final Fantasy terms.

Well, that was the first thing I thought of that was comparable, even if the logic wasn't entirely there, admittedly. Anyways, out of the other examples you have there, I'd agree on Drain being better than Regen in general, though admittedly, I never really used either (the only FF game I played in recent years was Bravely Default, where Regen was practically useless, for the player anyway; I read that said game also has attack magic losing usefulness as the game goes on). The DC2 example is less convincing because Drain healed for what, 2% of the damage dealt (IIRC)? That being said, I'd consider Sol better in any FE game except Awakening or Fates.

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

And what version of Fates are you playing that other units that aren't named Arthur or Percy aren't facing those same crit chances? Because it doesn't seem like such a version would be a legitimate version. Never-mind that in the aforementioned screenshot, Camilla was facing an enemy that she shouldn't be facing even if she faced a 0% crit chance unless if she was going CQC on him, if he has a very high chance of missing her, or if it was a mandatory action for the turn.

I kinda thought about mentioning that, but thought that went without saying. Also, CQC isn't an entirely safe option in that instance because most of the Snipers on that map have Counter.

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

The bar for being strong in both games isn't really all that different. After all, the higher stats on enemies in Fates is offset by the higher stats on your own units in the same game.

Fair enough, I guess.

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

All I can really say in response to saying that Arthur is one of Fates' worst units (even though there are other units who are worse than him such as the one servant who isn't your Jagen, and Odin), and saying that Berseker is one of Fates' worst classes, is "get better at the game". Which I don't think anyone would do if they habitually do what they do every time the play.

The problem with Arthur is that he can't hit worth a damn, for one, and second, his durability is negatively impacted by his low luck (and his personal doesn't help him in that regard at all). Granted, he has a high skill growth, but that doesn't mean much if he can't be relied on to kill enemies, and thus level up. As for Berserkers, axe lock is far from ideal, and honestly, I find their innate crit evade penalty to be a massive downer (Remember how big a deal being weak to Stealth Rock is? I consider being vulnerable to crits even more damning, and their crit boost doesn't come close to making up for it, especially because crits are lopsided in terms of usefulness). That being said, I do see Odin as being worse, at least on Revelation (not that Arthur's good there either).

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

Except you're not "tempting fate" by doing what just comes naturally. After all, no map where you face crit chances from a large number of enemies is a Kobayashi Maru in itself.

Kobayashi Maru? What in the seven hells are you going on about?

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

And your point is? I ask because that fact about Fates's EXP system doesn't really change what I'm saying. Especially since it means that effort spent in training your team can be spread more easily than in other games.

My point was more-or-less that compared to Awakening, which had a generous exp floor, I couldn't expect to trivialize Fates with level 15 skills because lowmanning was nowhere near as viable. I do agree with your second point, though.

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

Except Fates is a game where the difficulty picks back up after most of who you're using gets past lvl 10. I wouldn't say the impact that Lvl 15 Skills is "overall fairly small" because of that. Also, wouldn't that mean that PavGis has a "small impact" itself, by your logic? Because those two skills are pretty much the last skills anyone would consider when choosing any Lvl 15 skills to put on their units.

Yeah, I'd admit that those wouldn't do much in practice, either. Anyway, the only level 15 skills I could imagine making much difference are breakers and faires, Inspiration, and maybe Grisly Wound. Everything else is either too conditional, a double-edged sword, or not that impactful overall. Also, another issue level 15 skills have in Fates is that it has no postgame to speak of, unlike Awakening.

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

Even though said chance is astronomically low? Because really, the chances of every attack with a 6% crit chance resulting with a crit is far lower than you're making it out to be. It's as high of a chance of a unit like Seth getting attacked by every enemy on a map in FE8 in a single turn and dying, and during a normal playthrough no less. Or as high as getting struck by lightning, Or as high as getting sent to the hospital just for eating a piece of food. Stop pretending that this isn't the case. After all, you've used this same line of logic in arguing against PoR!Stefan being a bad unit, and your argument got shot down then, and by multiple people. Why try to apply the same line of logic to a unit who's better in her own game than PoR!Stefan is in his?

Perhaps. All told, I found Camilla useful even without needing to have her take part in combat.

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

Don't you think that's because such a risk is so small, that it's astronomical, making it a non-issue?

Maybe it is, but there's no context. Personally, I'd consider it an issue if, say, there were only three units left on a rout map or something along those lines. I just think it's reckless to take chances that are potentally game-ending when you're about to win, lest you end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (all three endgames are shining examples of this, as is chapter 17 in Revelations).

On March 4, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Just call me AL said:

Doesn't seem that way to me.

I was talking class wise, actually.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Moblin Major General]

On 3/4/2017 at 9:26 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Kobayashi Maru? What in the seven hells are you going on about?

The Kobayashi Maru is a ship that went missing in enemy territory during Starfleet simulations. Participants are presented with a Catch 22 scenario: try to save the KM and end up getting killed in the process, or abandon the ship. Both actions cause the mission to fail, and many choose the former so they can assess how well they do in dangerous situations. The only way to beat it is to cheat, or in FE's case, create a strategy the AI isn't able to counter.

[Akabon]

I was never all that fond of that Severa girl.