Insane HACKER with 80-90 Stats & more.....

[Chromagna]

#FireEmblemPvPwillneverbegood

It's really only okay when playing with friends.

I've been against people hyping up PvP from the start.

From way back in Awakening.

It was... Fated... to end up like Shadow Dragon and New Mystery before it.

I believe it has potential, it just needs something done to it either at IS end or at the communities end and that will pretty much have to be the community to do something about it. Right now, there is a whole meta around similar strategies and there is a few different ways to make an awesome team for those who actually want to play the pvp properly. Its sorta like making a team for VGC pokemon, you have to have warp, replicate and a falcon knight to stay afloat but thats just fire emblems equivalent to big 6. The problem is, because fire emblem doesn't have a competitive community, an anti-meta can never be properly established. So the meta will stay pretty stagnant.

Maybe I am casting a line in a fishless pond but it would be nice to see some sort of development which could lead into something bigger and without hackers like these running around online.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I believe it has potential, it just needs something done to it either at IS end or at the communities end and that will pretty much have to be the community to do something about it. Right now, there is a whole meta around similar strategies and there is a few different ways to make an awesome team for those who actually want to play the pvp properly. Its sorta like making a team for VGC pokemon, you have to have warp, replicate and a falcon knight to stay afloat but thats just fire emblems equivalent to big 6. The problem is, because fire emblem doesn't have a competitive community, an anti-meta can never be properly established. So the meta will stay pretty stagnant.

Maybe I am casting a line in a fishless pond but it would be nice to see some sort of development which could lead into something bigger and without hackers like these running around online.

The problem is that there isn't anywhere near as much variety in Fates as there is in Pokemon. Neither game is balanced for multiplayer, but the sheer number of Pokemon means that even Pokemon that dominate the meta (Landerous-T for example) can be countered. In Fates however, the lack of variety means that their are only two noteworthy strategies; one-turn flier beatdown and ninja spam, with anything else getting crushed by those two.

[shadowofchaos]

Fire Emblem by design will suffer in single player if there is more focus in making multiplayer more balanced like Pokemon.

[Chromagna]

Fire Emblem by design will suffer in single player if there is more focus in making multiplayer more balanced like Pokemon.

Yeah, I get that. I am pretty much suggesting they implement hack-checks besides the blacklist as a means of getting rid of people like that online and also suggesting that we could create something where we talk about strategy and create tournaments purely based on pvp. The problem with this particular forum for that particular style of gathering is its not designed for it. So if we had something similar to pokemon showdown, it would be pretty cool. Not that it will happen, just thought it would be cool. I just want some hack-checks in place though because its not fun having to waste time searching for proper players that may not even be there.

[Chromagna]

The problem is that there isn't anywhere near as much variety in Fates as there is in Pokemon. Neither game is balanced for multiplayer, but the sheer number of Pokemon means that even Pokemon that dominate the meta (Landerous-T for example) can be countered. In Fates however, the lack of variety means that their are only two noteworthy strategies; one-turn flier beatdown and ninja spam, with anything else getting crushed by those two.

Yeaaah, didn't really think through that bit too well. There are still a few more strategies then that such as dodge tanking but yeah, not really much to work against it. I was actually contemplating air superiority though as a counter to flier teams so something like that could exist, just wouldn't be anywhere at all near as versatile as pokemon is.

[Nihilon]

The problem is that there isn't anywhere near as much variety in Fates as there is in Pokemon. Neither game is balanced for multiplayer, but the sheer number of Pokemon means that even Pokemon that dominate the meta (Landerous-T for example) can be countered. In Fates however, the lack of variety means that their are only two noteworthy strategies; one-turn flier beatdown and ninja spam, with anything else getting crushed by those two.

Could solve that similarly to the way Smogon did. Make a tier list and make team builds unusable below the tier of the given tournament/fight. Stuff like Josephines or ninja spam (Oh boy, I have seen someone's Castle with three stat-capped Master Ninjas with insane Nohrian Trust builds... it hurrrrrrrrrrrt) would be the equivalent of the Uber tier.

Of course, the Smogon system has its flaws... but overall, I'd say it's not too bad.

[Chromagna]

Could solve that similarly to the way Smogon did. Make a tier list and make team builds unusable below the tier of the given tournament/fight. Stuff like Josephines or ninja spam (Oh boy, I have seen someone's Castle with three stat-capped Master Ninjas with insane Nohrian Trust builds... it hurrrrrrrrrrrt) would be the equivalent of the Uber tier.

Of course, the Smogon system has its flaws... but overall, I'd say it's not too bad.

Could just ban multiple use of the same class and no double ups of the same skills in order to remove all the ninja/flyer spam teams. Josephines would be a little bit harder to counter but could always use a defensive unit against them (wary fighter, counter, miracle, renewable, filler) or something like that. I think it would be pretty fun to battle people online with the same rules.

[Nihilon]

Could just ban multiple use of the same class and no double ups of the same skills in order to remove all the ninja/flyer spam teams. Josephines would be a little bit harder to counter but could always use a defensive unit against them (wary fighter, counter, miracle, renewable, filler) or something like that. I think it would be pretty fun to battle people online with the same rules.

We could be the first. Maybe someone could make up a set of rules and make a thread with them, where people can post their friend codes and stuff to battle each other under the same rules? It's not a perfect solution, but it'd be a start - especially if we could get it stickied.

[Chromagna]

We could be the first. Maybe someone could make up a set of rules and make a thread with them, where people can post their friend codes and stuff to battle each other under the same rules? It's not a perfect solution, but it'd be a start - especially if we could get it stickied.

Sure, I will be pretty busy over the next few days though and the rules would need some thorough workings but we could make an 'under development' type of thread for ideas?

[Nihilon]

Sure, I will be pretty busy over the next few days though and the rules would need some thorough workings but we could make an 'under development' type of thread for ideas?

I'm in. I haven't had much time to play lately to set up any PvP teams, so I lack any practical experience, but I'd gladly contribute ideas, calculations, statistics and opinions as I'm able.

[17thSeraph]

Sure, I will be pretty busy over the next few days though and the rules would need some thorough workings but we could make an 'under development' type of thread for ideas?

Sounds good, haven't done pvp yet, 'cause I played only for the story till now, but I had some thougth already about some rules which could make pvp more balanced. I would gladly assist^^

[Time the Crestfallen]

Sure, I will be pretty busy over the next few days though and the rules would need some thorough workings but we could make an 'under development' type of thread for ideas?

The problem with that is that, for all we can work on rulesets in theory, there's absolutely no way to enforce this. Even with Smogon, the number of rule-following battles I've had that weren't on PokemonShowdown can be counted on one hand, even if it's something as mundane as breaking the Sleep Clause. Realistically speaking, the chances of any ruleset for Fates PVP catching on is slim-to-none and you'll still probably see Ninja/Flier teams on wifi-battles by the dozens anyway.

[Nihilon]

The problem with that is that, for all we can work on rulesets in theory, there's absolutely no way to enforce this. Even with Smogon, the number of rule-following battles I've had that weren't on PokemonShowdown can be counted on one hand, even if it's something as mundane as breaking the Sleep Clause. Realistically speaking, the chances of any ruleset for Fates PVP catching on is slim-to-none and you'll still probably see Ninja/Flier teams on wifi-battles by the dozens anyway.

Which is why we should use an external platform (like, say, Discord?) to gather like-minded people, who want to play under the same rules. Battling can then be done via Friend Codes rather than random match-ups online.

EDIT: Here are a few ideas for rules, plus reasoning/comments.

- No two of the same class.

This forces players to vary their teams a little, and not just ninja spam people. Also, "no two of the same class" would apply to promoted classes, not base, so you could use both a Master Ninja and a Mechanist, by way of example. An exception could be made for special classes such as the beast classes and the Nohr Prince(ss) line, as you have a limited number of those anyway.

- No Einherjar.

I'm not entirely sure about this rule, but its intent is to prevent people from just grabbing stat-capped and optimized units from easy seize castles and going on win streaks with those. It does have the disadvantage of excluding people from using, say, Scarlet or Izana on Revelation, but maybe exceptions could be made for those special cases. An exception could also be made for the amiibo characters, as well as Bond Units.

- No hacks permitted that get you things you cannot obtain through normal gameplay.

The idea here is that if people want to use powersaves to get that +7 Brave Sword without grinding Museum Melee for days on end, they can. But forged S-rank weapons or things like Bold Stance on units is where the fun ends. This would include things like Aptitude and Nohrian Trust/Hoshidan Unity on 1st gen units other than Mozu/Corrin, though to be fair, all Aptitude does is save Eternal Seals, and things like Nohrian Trust on Ryoma are easy enough to point out.

- Restrictions on extremely powerful skills such as Replicate.

Let's face it, Replicate is absurdly strong. In PvP, it's pretty much "use it or lose it". Replicate on every unit is just monotonous, and monotony is not fun, at least as far as I am concerned. Though this rule is largely based on my personal bias, so I'd like some input.

- Restrictions on class selection based on a tier list.

The thought behind this one is that there are some classes stronger than others (Master Ninjas, Swordmasters). So, for example, we'd have an S-tier, occupied by Master Ninjas, Swordmasters and other classes as strong as them (like, I don't know... Witches and Lodestars?), and you'd only be permitted to use one or two classes from the S-tier. This should force people to use something other than the "god tier" classes, encouraging some variety.

Thoughts? Are my ideas any good? Is it awful or should I just copy-paste this into a new thread?

Edited July 4, 2016 by Nihilon

[PuffPuff]

Yeah since Fates does not keep track of a player's W/L record,there is literally nothing they are getting out of this but on a sidenote I think its 90% Nintendo's fault for how much of a hot mess Fates's Online system is.They should have made complex hack checks just like in Pokemon X/Y/OR/AS & Pokebank.You cannot take hacked pokemon with insane base stats/EVs or illegal abilities like Spiritomb with Wonder Gaurd online.

At least I got this one through as any moves that are legitimate will do so.

Just like I couldn't get them through. x.x

Already starting to stand a chance against their cheated teams. Just need the regular Omega Yato's and he's good to go.

Edited July 4, 2016 by PuffPuff

[17thSeraph]

@Nihilon: I would recommend a new thread since this will definitly go out of the topic of this thread. Let us make the life of the Mods and ours easier and start a new thread^^ There we could even discuss which Skills should be restricted (×looking with fear to next weeks warp for europe)

[Nihilon]

I made the thread. Let's direct any discussion about the whole "PvP community for Fates" thing there, shall we?

[Chromagna]

Just like I couldn't get them through. x.x

Already starting to stand a chance against their cheated teams. Just need the regular Omega Yato's and he's good to go.

Don't join them... We do not want more people running around with hacked stuff... Just something I want to point out with your build though, Ignis is a proc and isn't needed on a unit with nohrian trust, beast shield is useless in lodestar, speedtaker is almost useless in PvP and renewal shouldn't be necessary on an offensive build.

[PuffPuff]

Don't join them... We do not want more people running around with hacked stuff... Just something I want to point out with your build though, Ignis is a proc and isn't needed on a unit with nohrian trust, beast shield is useless in lodestar, speedtaker is almost useless in PvP and renewal shouldn't be necessary on an offensive build.

Edit: For that 50ish Str...it does smexy dmg. The taker skills are ok, but should give him Hoshidian Unity, honestly. Renewal needed for castle collateral dmg. ...And Beast Shield to negate the triple effects of the Dragon Killer/Dragon Spirit. =]

-----

Mistletainn did pass for me as I did not get shadowbanned upon using the maxed forged one.

Is why that both the Mistletainn and S ranked weapons are passable for forging.

These along with the Yato will get you in serious trouble. But...if you keep these in your convoy while connecting, you won't be shadowbanned. If Enemy only skills are put away or not brought on your teams, you won't be shadowbanned. So hack away!!!!

Edited July 5, 2016 by PuffPuff

[Dark Paladin X]

I've seen many My Castles where the royals have something like Hoshidian Unity and Aptitude and an Effie and the Avatar with Even Better and Better Odds despite only the "demi-human" characters being the only characters having access to those skills.

And yet, it's still legit to gets skills like these in My Castle battles simply because someone manages to hack their own save files (if you check the Skill Request Forums, there are people requesting skills that are clearly unobtainable for a particular character). :|

Edited July 5, 2016 by Dark Paladin X

[Chromagna]

I've seen many My Castles where the royals have something like Hoshidian Unity and Aptitude and an Effie and the Avatar with Even Better and Better Odds despite only the "demi-human" characters being the only characters having access to those skills.

And yet, it's still legit to gets skills like these in My Castle battles simply because someone manages to hack their own save files (if you check the Skill Request Forums, there are people requesting skills that are clearly unobtainable for a particular character). :|

Its worse when you get players who don't realise that they are hacked skills, go online and get banned.

[Chromagna]

So hack away!!!!

This unnerves me xD I would rather not join them...

[PuffPuff]

Enemy Skills gets erased when you re-summon your character out of your logbook, or by taking it off. Don't save your game whenever your forced to remove them in online battles and that keeping them with you is the only way that these skills can be used. Status Resist is Enemy only because it disappears when you either strip it, or re-summon your character out of your logbook. Means no manual for it. -.- Should be useable as we need some form of protection from poison damage and hexing rods.

Edited July 5, 2016 by PuffPuff

[The DanMan]

Bloody hell.

Well at least it's kind of funny in a 'is this really happening' kind of way. Whenever I find a hacker in Pokemon, it'll be Pure Power Slaking or something similarly infuriating.

Sturdy Shedinja.

That is all.

Anyways, there was another topic on this forum about somebody hacking his MC team with the intent of making an Apoethesis-style challenge. This may be a similar deal.

[Zelgius]

And Beast Shield to negate the triple effects of the Dragon Killer/Dragon Spirit.

I don't think the Beast Shield will negate the dragon weakness though, I don't have experience with the skill myself but if it does what I've read it should nulify weakness for horse units and transforming units.

[Antsims93]

Personally I don't have a problem or anything negative to say about skills that are obviously unattainable by normal means,it creates a more since of strategy and creativity with pairups or give units that normally don't have to many options in terms of classes.