Why do people hate this game?

[leesangstar10]

Personally, I don't like how there's only characters from Awakening and Shadow Dragon. The Jpop is cringey but manageable. The gameplay didn't have that much of elements of fire emblem gameplay, but still pretty solid. Overall, I think the game is pretty solid, but there's a lot of people that bash at the game. I wonder why?

[Falling]

I remember when this game was announced. Back then, it was just a teaser trailer (One that didn't represent what the game would become) and an idea to us. Jpop and "Persona-y" wasn't really what came to mind - so when the game changed to what it is now, a sort-of niche style and presentation, it certainly surprised a few people. I personally don't have anything against the game, but I can see why some would be disappointed by it.

[Jave]

People hate this game because they refuse to give it a chance. Seriously, most of the hate comes from people who haven't played it because the game didn't turn out to be what they imagined back when it was first announced.

Which is a shame because the game is really good.

[carefreejules]

The reason why people don't like it or are disappointed is because the original concept of the game set itself up to be exactly what it was titled - a Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem crossover so people took it literally as a crossover between the two worlds. The fact that the game ended up being more about the idol and entertainment industry in Japan, people's outrage is kind of expected. Think about it - imagine being a fan of one of the two franchises that were getting a crossover only to get something that doesn't look like it has anything from either franchise from the surface - wouldn't you be pretty disappointed too?

Of course the internet can go on and on about how pandery and animu the game looked, but if we were to step away from the initial concept - what they came up with is actually quite good and I wouldn't mind there being more installments since the crossover works as a standalone series. It sucks that they didn't include other Fire Emblem mirages from other franchises, but it's always good to test the waters and show your audience characters that they're already familiar with.

All in all, imo, I would blame the initial 'teaser' trailer that they showed off Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem characters because that ultimately sets the initial impressions that people are going to have and expect. I feel like if they waited until they felt more confident of the direction of how they wanted to deal with the crossover, I'm sure the game would have gotten waaaaaaay less backlash.

Edited July 7, 2016 by carefreejules

[Keaton the wise]

Yeah basically they set some expectations with the teaser for the worse. Then some time of real silenece, and when the E3 revelation came, The personaesque style didn't reasonate with some fellas. A shame specially since this is a great game and hopefully there is a sequel to it.

[eclipse]

A lot of it boils down to assumptions about the game. Some didn't like the fact that the game doesn't have much in common with SMT, some don't like the whole Japanese pop culture thing, and some genuinely have a problem with Japan as a whole (the last ones usually get the boot, since SF has a "don't be a racist prick" policy). The story has some issues, and there's some minor UI/dungeon things that annoy me. However, the gameplay is solid, and there's mechanics from the SMT and FE sides (for example, the weapon triangle exists).

[PuffPuff]

People hate this game because they refuse to give it a chance. Seriously, most of the hate comes from people who haven't played it because the game didn't turn out to be what they imagined back when it was first announced.

Which is a shame because the game is really good.

Only battle system and gameplay are what stands.

Edited July 7, 2016 by PuffPuff

[carefreejules]

Only battle system and gameplay are what stands.

Have you actually played it yet though? There's a lot to love about this game besides just the battle system and gameplay.

[Avk]

I wouldn't do that if I were you, but you should probably ask the people involved directly. I think that most people here have warmed to the game or were pretty okay with it since a while, so you will only get what we think are their reasons instead of their reasons directly.

What I have more trouble understanding is why these people keep doing that, I tend to not spend my time on things I dislike (although on video games related subjects, it's more like apathy or indifference) since I think this is just a waste of my time that I would rather spend on things I enjoy. The answer is probably that it's different mindset, but it's one I can't really understand (or maybe they really care about the game ?).

[The DanMan]

It started out as a straight SMT and FE crossover, but then the re-unveiling made it out as something almost completely different and feeling extremely like it was trying to appeal to the (for lack of a better term) lowest common demoninator (idols, fanservice, Akaneia only, bubbly Persona-like vibes... basically everything that long-time fans of either series didn't really like or want in, but were there most likely to bump sales).

Really, I'm done hating on it.

[Avk]

It started out as a straight SMT and FE crossover, but then the re-unveiling made it out as something almost completely different and feeling extremely like it was trying to appeal to the (for lack of a better term) lowest common demoninator (idols, fanservice, Akaneia only, bubbly Persona-like vibes... basically everything that long-time fans of either series didn't really like or want in, but were there most likely to bump sales).

Really, I'm done hating on it.

It started out as nothing, but it was indeed their mistake to present it too early.

I always find that argument pretty funny "fanservices, idols, etc... to get more sales", for two main reasons :

- people complaining about "fanservice" while asking for the most direct kind of fanservice, can't help but to find the irony quite funny

- do you really believe that j-pop and idols would make more sales than whatever SMTxFE could have been ? I don't, and I'm not sure who could think that.

Also, I'm not quite sure you have any right to speak in the names of "long-time fans of either series", I'm probably not one of the oldest fans of FE, and certainly not of SMT, but your words sure don't reflect my thoughts.

But I guess this is probably an accurate reflection of the thoughts of the game's detractors.

[Azure Sen]

It started out as nothing, but it was indeed their mistake to present it too early.

I think the bigger mistake was staying silent for two years and not being up front that it was more a style collab between Nintendo and Atlus than an actual SMT x FE crossover.

- do you really believe that j-pop and idols would make more sales than whatever SMTxFE could have been ? I don't, and I'm not sure who could think that.

I can, because idols, especially female teenage idols, are incredibly popular in Japan right now (see also: the continued success of series like Love Live, the Idolm@ster, etc.). Honestly, the fact that TMS sold so poorly in Japan was really surprising, considering that it seemed to have all of the elements that would normally make it a success in the current market.

[The Geek]

I can, because idols, especially female teenage idols, are incredibly popular in Japan right now (see also: the continued success of series like Love Live, the Idolm@ster, etc.). Honestly, the fact that TMS sold so poorly in Japan was really surprising, considering that it seemed to have all of the elements that would normally make it a success in the current market.

Three words: Terrible release date

[Avk]

I think the bigger mistake was staying silent for two years and not being up front that it was more a style collab between Nintendo and Atlus than an actual SMT x FE crossover.

I can, because idols, especially female teenage idols, are incredibly popular in Japan right now (see also: the continued success of series like Love Live, the Idolm@ster, etc.). Honestly, the fact that TMS sold so poorly in Japan was really surprising, considering that it seemed to have all of the elements that would normally make it a success in the current market.

I think that if they first introduced it like they did during the first direct trailer as #FE, or differently during the first infamous "SMTxFE" trailer during E3 as Atlus x FE instead, the situation would have been very different. I personally didn't expect anything when I first saw it since we didn't see anything, but it seems like most people did not react the same way. I feel that even if they tried to kept us more informed after the first reveal, that wouldn't change how the game was received, just makes it happen sooner.

And I can't say that I'm an expert on all this matter, since I'm not in Japan or following closely japanese trends, but I don't think idols are as popular as they appear. They have some really dedicated fanbases which may make them appear bigger than they are, but I doubt it is that popular among the mainstream. Not that FE or SMT are as well, but Fates did sold a really fair number (I know, different platform) and SMT is slightly more known out there than it is here in the west I think, so building something with 2 existing fanbases of "hardcore" RPGs combined should probably being a safer bet in my opinion.

But there are plenty of arguments to explain how the game performed :

- Being on Wii U, the console isn't actually really doing well, quite the opposite, although it's doing better in Japan than elsewhere.

- Coupled with being on Wii U, there isn't really a big audience for JRPGs on the console, the game being the only second one of the console.

- Part of the 2 previous reasons, but FE and SMT have been in the recent years only on 3DS, so they couldn't really sell the game directly to fans of either or both.

- Release date being 12/26, I don't know how Japanese people celebrate Christmas, I don't think this is a really good release date being close to it, but after the day passed.

- The theme being radically different from what SMT fans and FE fans are used to didn't really help, so they didn't really benefit directly from both games' fanbases.

- Very minimal advertisements, it isn't inexistent, but Nintendo didn't really push the game extremely hard, and as much as I like the game, I understand their decision.

Just a few arguments I could come up with quickly, but I think that's a fair summary.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Avk

[The Geek]

Idol stuff is pretty mainstream. From what I've heard from friends who have been there, you can see Love Live! stuff everywhere.

[Hardin]

Let's not forget that FE fans can be extremely conservative when it comes to change.

[solrocknroll]

What makes me mad is when people pretend that the J-Pop is so horrible and cringeworthy.

It's an actual genre of music, and it's a legitimate style choice. It's like how Persona 3 uses hip hop, how Pokemon Colosseum uses... harmonica-focused western music(?), or how Sonic uses rock. It's no different from any other genre, and this game's main genre is actually electronica, but people somehow think that all J-Pop is bad because they see a glimpse at it from the outside.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Ms. Bunch

[carefreejules]

People are prone to make assumptions purely from what they know of the medium which can be the result of stereotyping. I feel like when people think of J-Pop, they think of the music used for anime openings and endings or they think of those idol animes where there's a cast of overly cute and attractive girls or a cast of overly handsome and attractive guy who all wear flashy outfits and dance around and sing about love and all that mushy stuff. In some ways, that is true but that doesn't cover the entirety of the genre which is probably something people don't think about.

When people see a part or piece of something, they're going to base most of their assumptions around that and whether they're interested in learning more, will they actually explore more of the genre rather than go off on just the piece of information that they know. I mean, if you don't like something even if it's just a taste or snippet of the bigger picture, how inclined are you going to feel about wanting to learn more?

Some might say "well, maybe I'll warm up to it if I learn more about the topic and expose myself more to this thing" while others might say "Ugh, I don't like the feel of this thing therefore I don't want to waste my time learning more about it" - reactions are gonna vary.

Edited July 7, 2016 by carefreejules

[Avk]

Idol stuff is pretty mainstream. From what I've heard from friends who have been there, you can see Love Live! stuff everywhere.

I stand corrected then, even if I find that quite surprising. I still definitely think that the shift in theme was extremely incertain compared to the more obvious approach of capitalizing on the existing fanbases, which is what I referred as "wanting fanservice".

I'm glad the game turned out well, but I can understand why some people don't think so.

Let's not forget that FE fans can be extremely conservative when it comes to change.

I don't think it's specific to FE fans, or to fans of anything, I think it's a fairly common trait to stick to what you know, and I usually am no different but I try to keep an open mind.

What makes me mad is when people pretend that the J-Pop is so horrible and cringeworthy.

It's an actual genre of music, and it's a legitimate style choice. It's like how Persona 3 uses hip hop, how Pokemon Colosseum uses... harmonica-focused western music(?), or how Sonic uses rock. It's no different from any other genre, and this game's main genre is actually electronica, but people somehow think that all J-Pop is bad because they see a glimpse at it from the outside.

I feel that the game has a really wide variety of music styles, so "J-Pop" isn't really descriptive to me, but I'm really bad with musical naming conventions so that must be that. As you said, the music fits the game perfectly so it's absolutely a matter of tastes, instead of being about the music being "bad".

Also, even if the theme of japanese entertainment is pretty central to the game, I think that at its core, it's more about the turn based gameplay and seeing the characters overcome their difficulties and "grow" as persons, at least that how I felt (pretty much just like in Persona social links, or some supports in FE).

[Azure Sen]

Three words: Terrible release date

I've heard people complain about the release date, but that doesn't explain why sales didn't pick up the next week (and in fact dropped about 80%). Plus, having actually seen the Famitsu sales chart for that week...the game just sold poorly. Gundam Extreme VS Force sold almost three times what TMS did despite being released the same week, and the only other notable new release sold about as much as TMS despite being part of a much less popular franchise (namely, Medabots).

But there are plenty of arguments to explain how the game performed :

- Being on Wii U, the console isn't actually really doing well, quite the opposite, although it's doing better in Japan than elsewhere.

The Wii U's not actually doing as bad as most people claim, though it's certainly not selling units like the PS4 is (and Nintendo's real money powerhouse at the moment is the 3DS anyway, which means the Wii U not doing as good as they hoped isn't that harmful for them).

- Release date being 12/26, I don't know how Japanese people celebrate Christmas, I don't think this is a really good release date being close to it, but after the day passed.

Aside what I mentioned above, here's a fun fact: the first Devil Summoner game, released on Christmas Day 20 years ago, sold ~265,000 copies in its first week, despite only having two more days in its sales week than TMS.

- Very minimal advertisements, it isn't inexistent, but Nintendo didn't really push the game extremely hard, and as much as I like the game, I understand their decision.

>Had several articles in Famitsu

>Appeared on Nintendo Direct several times

>Featured at E3 twice

>On top of normal advertising (ads, tv spots, etc.)

I'm honestly not sure what more they could have done to advertise the game in Japan, though I do agree that the marketing could have been better here in the West.

While FE and SMT fans not finding the game to their taste could explain at least some of the game's poor sales, that really doesn't explain why the game was unable to find wider market appeal.

What makes me mad is when people pretend that the J-Pop is so horrible and cringeworthy.

Or people just don't find the idol pop in the game to their taste, even to the point of disliking/hating it? I don't hate it, and I like quite a few songs, but most of the idol pop in the game is just kind of bleh to me.

[Jave]

What honestly surprises me is that we've had a whole year to digest the actual reveal of this game, and some people are STILL hating on it.

I don't know, it just feels ridiculous and childish to me.

[SSbardock84]

I don't hate the game but I can't say I love it. The game is definitely fun there's no doubts about that. However, you can easily lose your interest to the game too. I made it passed Chapter 4 and started Chapter 5 but I kind of got bored and haven't gone back to it. I've tried playing several more times but I just keep getting bored. I want to beat the game before the summer ends but the game can be hard to stay interested. So far my rating for the game though is an 8/10, which clearly isn't bad.

Edit: And one more thing is that my expectations for the game were somewhat low. So I was very pleased with the outcome of how the game has been it far exceeded my expectations. It was a better feel then Fire Emblem Fates, which I had high expectations for but received far less than what I had hoped for.

Edited July 8, 2016 by SSbardock84

[eclipse]

I don't hate the game but I can't say I love it. The game is definitely fun there's no doubts about that. However, you can easily lose your interest to the game too. I made it passed Chapter 4 and started Chapter 5 but I kind of got bored and haven't gone back to it. I've tried playing several more times but I just keep getting bored. I want to beat the game before the summer ends but the game can be hard to stay interested. So far my rating for the game though is an 8/10, which clearly isn't bad.

Edit: And one more thing is that my expectations for the game were somewhat low. So I was very pleased with the outcome of how the game has been it far exceeded my expectations. It was a better feel then Fire Emblem Fates, which I had high expectations for but received far less than what I had hoped for.

Chapter 5 was a bit of a bump for me, too. I suggest Estoma spam.

It's not Bravely Default levels of bad, but I don't like revisiting places unless there's a drastic change, a la Final Fantasy 6.

Edited July 8, 2016 by eclipse

[Miracle-Flora]

Back when it was first announced to be JPop and idol themed, I was revved up in hype due to how much I love those two things. I knew I was going to like the game. When it released, I got it on the release date. It was worth it.

[Etrurian emperor]

For some people the game just comes across as way to Japanese. You can't get more typically Japanese then the ''just an average highscool'' setting and the idol scene is very controversial. The fire emblem stuff is also a bit hard to recognize, at least from what was shown and I hear the SMT crowd also find it hard to recognize their stuff. That's probably not the smartest way to do a crossover.

The big focus on Akenaia might also turn you off if you don't have any particular affection for that era. Most in the west likely do not have that affection.

In my particular case its the wrong kind of Japanese. I'm a huge fan of the over the top Japanese style of the Disgaea or ace attorney games but I tolerate high schools at best and the idol scene is a turn off for me. So I can make a pretty rational case that the game just isn't for me. I don't hate it but there's nothing I see that would make me exited either. I don't know SMT, don't have a fondness for Akenaia and I have more negative than positive feelings about highschools and J pop.