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POR: Units worth using


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Being 10HKO'd isn't 'next to no damage' enough for you? I know you have an unreasonable disliking of units with low luck, and I get that. I'm not saying that you have to like Stefan. Objectively, however, he's still an excellent infantry unit regardless of his low luck.

When he routinely risks crits relative to most other units, I can't say I'm impressed. FFS, I showed on the previous page that an enemy could potentially make him lose over half his HP! That's enough for me to see that a crit is going to cause major problems. There are other reasons I don't see Stefan as all that great, either.

As for the Mist-Rhys discussion that cropped up: For what it's worth, Mist has a better support list and a better affinity.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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The issue here is that Forge still doesn't help. Mist's strength is just that bad. Mist promotes and usually has about 9 strength. To put into perspective of how bad that is, someone like Rolf has 9 strength at level 13, and he's not considered to be a good unit. Volke, a unit that you also use for utility starts out with 12 strength. Even being stuck with knives, he still can inflict more damage than Mist. Especially because he doesn't get weighed down by any of his weapons.

And yet, with a forge, her Atk is only about 3-4 points worse than Marcia's with a regular Steel Lance. And there's no reason to assume that a Steel forge would weigh Mist down unless you've neglected to reduce weight.

Rhys gets weighed down by his Light tome, but at least you can eliminate the problem with 1 energy booster generally. 2 Might versus 8 isn't so bad when you realize that: Rhys has a lot more magic than Mist has strength, and if Mist uses a Steeal Sword she loses 3 AS which puts her only 1-2 points higher than him. If Rhys can avoid being doubled, he's doing more damage than her.

Except he's not doubling jack even if you give him an Energy Drop to make it so that he's not weighed down by the most basic of Light tomes. Maybe Armor Knights, Generals, or other magic users. But that's about it. Mist, on the other hand, is doubling anything that doesn't have 14 AS or higher. However, the fact that Mist has pretty low Str kinda makes her damage output equal to Rhys's w/Steel forge. I'm not gonna deny both of them are pretty frail. But at least Mist can also bolster her durability with Titania/Jill/Mordecai supports whereas Rhys can virtually do no such thing even with his own supports.

@bolded: Once again, not if she gets a forge.

For Rhys versus Mist, it's really if you consider a mount more useful or more magic. If you don't steal physic staves or buy them, Mist is definitely the better option IMO. But really, even with better range, I don't think it matters too much, because canto is still nice to have. That said, I can't say for certain which one is better because it boils down to preference here.

Except, as others have mentioned, there is the BK battle, where her deployment is mandatory. And it's often better to invest in the healer who has a mount than it is to invest in one who is constantly on foot, even if you do buy Physic staves.

I will say that I've used magical sword Mist before, and it's really not too impressive. It's not much better than a standard mage except she has more of a hassle to get there.

I mentioned Steel Swords because they can help boost WEXP the most without the help of an Arms Scroll. With Mist using exclusively Steelies for defending herself, and offense should no one need any healing, I can imagine her reaching B reasonably soon enough.

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And yet, with a forge, her Atk is only about 3-4 points worse than Marcia's with a regular Steel Lance. And there's no reason to assume that a Steel forge would weigh Mist down unless you've neglected to reduce weight.

She's also a lot slower than Marcia. So it does matter. Her Atk and Spd are lower all around. Marcia also has higher hp, and defense, as well. So basically spending a ton of money to make her a worse Marcia doesn't sound worth it. Especially because Marcia is higher in level as well, and even with Mist having a different set of EXP for gains than Marcia, it's not that much better, and even healing every turn is still less EXP overall than fighting every turn with the occasional kill or two.

Except he's not doubling jack even if you give him an Energy Drop to make it so that he's not weighed down by the most basic of Light tomes. Maybe Armor Knights, Generals, or other magic users. But that's about it. Mist, on the other hand, is doubling anything that doesn't have 14 AS or higher. However, the fact that Mist has pretty low Str kinda makes her damage output equal to Rhys's w/Steel forge. I'm not gonna deny both of them are pretty frail. But at least Mist can also bolster her durability with Titania/Jill/Mordecai supports whereas Rhys can virtually do no such thing even with his own supports.

It's not so you can double, it's so you aren't doubled in the event you are attacked from 1 range. Mist is doubling things that have higher defense. The fact that their attack is about equal and Rhys has two range makes his better. Both of them are pretty bad on this front. Rhys can buff his defense by supporting with Titania or Ulki. Mist gets a buff for defense with all of her supports however because she's water while Rhys always gets extra attack. She's probably going to be worse offensively than him because of this.

Except, as others have mentioned, there is the BK battle, where her deployment is mandatory. And it's often better to invest in the healer who has a mount than it is to invest in one who is constantly on foot, even if you do buy Physic staves.

Which you don't even need Mist there to win, and there's also the fact that the soldiers can still provide problems for Mist. Mist's likelihood of promoting is pretty terrible tbh. She comes at level 1 at chapter 9. That's terrible. Chapter 10 you barely need to fight if you sneak around, and if we promote her earlier, her stats are even worse. That's why I'm saying it's a preference here. If Mist came at like level 12 or something with appropriate stats, I'd say it's Mist by a landslide or if Mist came with swords before promotion? Sure, but here? It's really not worth investing in trying to make Mist attack anything. You'd have to dedicate an entire game to it. Something that's never a good sign.

I mentioned Steel Swords because they can help boost WEXP the most without the help of an Arms Scroll. With Mist using exclusively Steelies for defending herself, and offense should no one need any healing, I can imagine her reaching B reasonably soon enough.

It's really slow. Steel Swords give 2 WEXP per attack, and kills don't double it in this one, She starts at D rank. Mist would have to attack 45 (90 WEXP) times with steel to get to B. And get 60 WEXP to get A rank for Runesword (it's worth mentioning that Sonic Sword only gives 1 WEXP). That's a lot of attacks. 45 times is a lot. That's at least 45 (or finding enemies you can double turn) turns of attacking or having Reyson constantly spam refreshes on her to speed that up. She's not getting them reasonably enough. Mist would be lucky to get C rank assuming she's going to be fighting as well as healing.

Edited by Augestein
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It's not so you can double, it's so you aren't doubled in the event you are attacked from 1 range. Mist is doubling things that have higher defense. The fact that their attack is about equal and Rhys has two range makes his better. Both of them are pretty bad on this front. Rhys can buff his defense by supporting with Titania or Ulki. Mist gets a buff for defense with all of her supports however because she's water while Rhys always gets extra attack. She's probably going to be worse offensively than him because of this.

Blowing an energy drop on Rhys so he isn't doubled? What are you having him use, Nosferatu? Also, Ulki's pretty bad, and there's a move gap between Rhys and Titania, and the support doesn't really do any good for Titania or Rhys himself anyhow.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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Blowing an energy drop on Rhys so he isn't doubled? What are you having him use, Nosferatu? Also, Ulki's pretty bad, and there's a move gap between Rhys and Titania, and the support doesn't really do any good for Titania anyhow.

Sure. Why not? If I'm going to blow an expensive forge on a unit that can barely use it effectively, I'm not seeing why I wouldn't give an energy drop to a unit I'm planning on using for the event that if I make a mistake I'll be able to have my bases better covered. Both Rhys and Mist are pretty lousy with their attacking . I'd realistically never bother, but for some reason here, we are. I'd rather give Mist two arms scrolls -- a rather useless item for most units in the game as steel weapons, your most common "power" weapons, are either D or E rank. A forged sword for more attack and weight reduction for Mist would be like 4350 gold. Even if I were to sell an energy drop, I'd still lose more from the forge than the energy drop. I think we can pretty much just guarantee that both Rhys and Mist are terrible on the combat side.

There's also a move gap between Mist and Titania as well as Mordecai and Mist and even Jill and Mist. It's not as much when Mist promotes, but unpromoted there most certainly is there. Rhys still gives Titania extra attack. She's not exactly upset about that. Both end up giving the same amount of attack. She just loses on a point of def/res. It does good for her as well.

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Sure. Why not? If I'm going to blow an expensive forge on a unit that can barely use it effectively, I'm not seeing why I wouldn't give an energy drop to a unit I'm planning on using for the event that if I make a mistake I'll be able to have my bases better covered. Both Rhys and Mist are pretty lousy with their attacking . I'd realistically never bother, but for some reason here, we are. I'd rather give Mist two arms scrolls -- a rather useless item for most units in the game as steel weapons, your most common "power" weapons, are either D or E rank. A forged sword for more attack and weight reduction for Mist would be like 4350 gold. Even if I were to sell an energy drop, I'd still lose more from the forge than the energy drop. I think we can pretty much just guarantee that both Rhys and Mist are terrible on the combat side.

There's also a move gap between Mist and Titania as well as Mordecai and Mist and even Jill and Mist. It's not as much when Mist promotes, but unpromoted there most certainly is there. Rhys still gives Titania extra attack. She's not exactly upset about that. Both end up giving the same amount of attack. She just loses on a point of def/res. It does good for her as well.

All that comes to mind that is doubling Rhys are speed oriented classes, which would likely double him even with an energy drop, so I don't see any real gain there. Case in point: Chapter 18. A 20/1 Rhys has 14 speed, and thus is only getting doubled by Ravens (assuming he's not weighed down). I do agree that neither of them are very good for combat, though.

But compared to her other options, a Rhys support is just inferior - Boyd gives the same bonuses and puts them to better use, Mist gives full defence, and Ike is earth.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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When he routinely risks crits relative to most other units, I can't say I'm impressed. FFS, I showed on the previous page that an enemy could potentially make him lose over half his HP! That's enough for me to see that a crit is going to cause major problems. There are other reasons I don't see Stefan as all that great, either.

first of all stefan is invaluable as a boss killer. He is probably your best boss killer for a while until your other units catch up.

Second off, do you know the chance of two 1% criticals happening? It's probably even lower than the chance of a mounted unit with good defense getting hit by every enemy on the map. Furthermore, do you know how low the enemy density is on hard mode? Odds are, those two myrmidons are all that will attack on that turn. Now, to crunch some probability numbers - Stefan has 55 base evade, and those Myrmidons have 1 crit and 55/58 hit on him as a result. (59.95% and 65.19% true hit) The chance of him getting hit by two 1% criticals is .0039%, which is 39 instances out of 100,000. If he gets hit by those two Myrmidons, then you better watch your ass during a storm because you may end up getting struck by lightning. Again, by this point in the game, that's what will happen to your units if they get hit by just about everything on the map, which has about the probability. Your fears are completely unfounded, and while enemy criticals are annoying, they rarely happen. The chance of one critical happening and not the other is .012%, which is 12 out of one thousand. And a) he'll probably be the only dude attacked that turn if that's the case and b) he can survive a hit and a crit pretty handily...

I don't understand this line of reasoning that "if it's not 100% it may as well be 0%." Stop misleading the guy who is new to the game.

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first of all stefan is invaluable as a boss killer. He is probably your best boss killer for a while until your other units catch up.

Second off, do you know the chance of two 1% criticals happening? It's probably even lower than the chance of a mounted unit with good defense getting hit by every enemy on the map. Furthermore, do you know how low the enemy density is on hard mode? Odds are, those two myrmidons are all that will attack on that turn. Now, to crunch some probability numbers - Stefan has 55 base evade, and those Myrmidons have 1 crit and 55/58 hit on him as a result. (59.95% and 65.19% true hit) The chance of him getting hit by two 1% criticals is .0039%, which is 39 instances out of 100,000. If he gets hit by those two Myrmidons, then you better watch your ass during a storm because you may end up getting struck by lightning. Again, by this point in the game, that's what will happen to your units if they get hit by just about everything on the map, which has about the probability. Your fears are completely unfounded, and while enemy criticals are annoying, they rarely happen. The chance of one critical happening and not the other is .012%, which is 12 out of one thousand. And a) he'll probably be the only dude attacked that turn if that's the case and b) he can survive a hit and a crit pretty handily...

I don't understand this line of reasoning that "if it's not 100% it may as well be 0%." Stop misleading the guy who is new to the game.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to risk having defeat snatched from the jaws of victory because my bosskiller got critkilled by the boss he's trying to kill. I don't have much else to say besides that.

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I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to risk having defeat snatched from the jaws of victory because my bosskiller got critkilled by the boss he's trying to kill. I don't have much else to say besides that.

So you appreciate more a slim chance of failing rather than the huge chance of success? Focus on the chances you have to win and be successful, even if slim, rather than the chance you have to lose and be defeated, even if big.
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So you appreciate more a slim chance of failing rather than the huge chance of success? Focus on the chances you have to win and be successful, even if slim, rather than the chance you have to lose and be defeated, even if big.

I consider taking chances like that when you're that close to victory foolish to the extreme. Of course I'd seek an alternate tactic that doesn't carry the risk of auto-losing.

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Maybe I am. Not that I'll stand down on the subject - it's called "Properly Paranoid", look it up. Facing crit chances is objectively, infinitely inferior to not facing them, and this is non-negotiable, largely because of how valuable crit is to the enemy.

...Anyways, other than Brom, none of those guys you mentioned are likely to face crit chances, and Brom largely won't care if it's not a mage.

He's more prone to getting hit too with his badder avoid for his abysmal luck. You need both Spd AND Luck to get the awesome avoid.

Though 100% activation rate Vantage is cool

Hating how they nerfed it in RD.

Except he will pretty much always be head and shoulders above the team. Mia is not getting his strength, speed, or hp over the course of the game. Ever. Innate Vantage might actually mean something for Mia if she actually had the strength to DO something with it-- most of the game it's pretty worthless for Mia or forcing you to leave Mia as the only viable target for enemies that aren't dead (why would you be doing this?). If you're going vantage / Wrath Mia, well, let's just say that Stefan has a lower chance of being hit by a stray critical than Vantage + Wrath has for actually working in your favor (even if you use Swordmaster critical + Killing Edge + Wrath + Vantage, you aren't guaranteed to kill an enemy). Both Vantage and Adept are scrolls you can obtain in the game too. If you hate Astra, you can give him Adept. You don't have to leave it equipped.

Giving her that would be the dumbest idea ever when people only use that for Ena, Nasir, or Ike to defeat the final boss. Since nobody else but the royal Laguz can ever lay a hand on him.

First paragraph: I see. Thinking about it, I'm kinda surprised Ike didn't lose his cool.

Everything else: Well, while I do agree with some of your points, I will say that Stefan doesn't ALWAYS face crit chances, for a while at least, but still, 1-5% crit chances generally aren't the kind of chances I'd want to take in a game series with permanent death, especially repeatedly. Aside from that, I find he's not that much better than a 20/1 Zihark, and his overleveled status doesn't really help his case. Nor does it that he only has two supports, and the worst support affinity to go with them.

Which characters like him blows in colossal chapters.
50ish turn reinforcement chapters
FE1(NES)- Ch8, 17 and 24.
FE5-Ch17A, Ch19, Ch24X
FE6-Ch21
FE7-Cog Of Destiny and Victory Or Death
FE13/14-Lunatic having to stratigize alot spending good time at the endgame chapters.
If they get critted and die at the end of these maps...no one would want to start any of these over.

It might as well be playing Russian Roulette, far as I'm concerned. I'm also of the mindset that even if it doesn't kill, eating a critical is bad unless the attacker was dealing next to no damage to begin with, because a non-fatal critical hit just might set up another attack that'd be survivable otherwise to be a fatal blow, and we all know what that means. Other than that, I DID have a run ended by an enemy critical hit - and thanks to that, I consider even a 1% chance 1% too high. So it all goes back to how valuable crit is for the enemy.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to risk having defeat snatched from the jaws of victory because my bosskiller got critkilled by the boss he's trying to kill. I don't have much else to say besides that.

It's bad for him to go up against any Laguz enemy that they can easily pick him apart with their usual colossal offenses.

Edited by PuffPuff
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If you're worrying about enemies critting you in the easiest FE game in the franchise. I don't know what to say.

In PoR pretty much everyone can be utilized if you like them, fairly easily too, thanks to BEXP and the low difficulty overall. The least worth units are probably Rolf & Shinon (on his return) but even they do well with some bias. I mean I regularly use Shinon in my PoR runs because I find him amusing as a character.

Honestly you can't really go wrong in PoR at all.

Edited by Jedi
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isn't SS the easiest?

SS has harder chapters overall, such as Father & Son, the Gorgon one etc. Also BEXP is busted more so than the tower in its own ways.

Edited by Jedi
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SS has harder chapters overall, such as Father & Son, the Gorgon one etc. Also BEXP is busted more so than the tower in its own ways.

1 or 2 hard chapters don't save SS from being the easiest in the series.

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I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to risk having defeat snatched from the jaws of victory because my bosskiller got critkilled by the boss he's trying to kill. I don't have much else to say besides that.

If you want to play inefficiently because of something that happens like 39/100000 times then go for it but don't offer advice to more reasonable users who are starting this game and asking for advice.

He's more prone to getting hit too with his badder avoid for his abysmal luck. You need both Spd AND Luck to get the awesome avoid.

stefan has more avoid than just about anyone for most of the game despite his luck stat because he has that evade in chapter 16 and everyone else has that evade in like chapter 25 Edited by Lord Raven
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She's also a lot slower than Marcia. So it does matter.

3 points is hardly "a lot". But of course, that's assuming both of them are promoting around the same time.

It's not so you can double, it's so you aren't doubled in the event you are attacked from 1 range. Mist is doubling things that have higher defense. The fact that their attack is about equal and Rhys has two range makes his better.

Levant covered this already: Why should I spend on a resource to make someone who's objectively worst than Mist suck less? If anything, that energy Drop should be going to Mist.

Rhys can buff his defense by supporting with Titania or Ulki.

Neither of whom are his most viable, nor is he theirs. Those bonuses won't even come into play with those pairs. No, Rhys's most viable supports are Mia (who likely won't be fielded) and Rolf (who sucks), neither of whom buff defense.

Which you don't even need Mist there to win

She's still helpful there all the same.

and there's also the fact that the soldiers can still provide problems for Mist.

Not if she's toting a Magic Weapon, which would be pretty likely by then.

Mist's likelihood of promoting is pretty terrible tbh.

Dude. BEXP exists. I've had no problems having her promoted at the same time as her own brother, for one.

It's really slow. Steel Swords give 2 WEXP per attack, and kills don't double it in this one, She starts at D rank. Mist would have to attack 45 (90 WEXP) times with steel to get to B. And get 60 WEXP to get A rank for Runesword (it's worth mentioning that Sonic Sword only gives 1 WEXP). That's a lot of attacks. 45 times is a lot. That's at least 45 (or finding enemies you can double turn) turns of attacking or having Reyson constantly spam refreshes on her to speed that up. She's not getting them reasonably enough. Mist would be lucky to get C rank assuming she's going to be fighting as well as healing.

And that's a total of 38 battles, in the span of 9 maps. Is it really that much?

There's also a move gap between Mist and Titania as well as Mordecai and Mist and even Jill and Mist. It's not as much when Mist promotes, but unpromoted there most certainly is there.

But the only time where Mist can attack to even defend herself is post-promotion. So...
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If you want to play inefficiently because of something that happens like 39/100000 times then go for it but don't offer advice to more reasonable users who are starting this game and asking for advice.

Seriously? Your definition of "reasonable" is "willing to take stupid and potentially game-ending risks"??? Last I checked, that's the exact opposite of "reasonable".

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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Seriously? Your definition of "reasonable" is "willing to take stupid and potentially game-ending risks"???

Your definition of that is a 39/100000 chance, so don't give me that. There's a nonzero chance of a lot of units dying per chapter, so we should never play Fire Emblem.

Edited by Lord Raven
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All this debating...

Path of Radiance, even on hard, is relatively easy compared to other titles. There really is no one that unusuable. Heck, there's ways to train Rolf by abusing Chapter 12's mechanics.

My consistent units are:

-Ike

-Mist

-Soren

-Jill

But to the OP, I'd say go with whomever. Of course there are some units easier to use than others but there isn't a big gap of difference enough to say "never use this person" like, say, Fiona in FE10 hard mode.

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All this debating...

Path of Radiance, even on hard, is relatively easy compared to other titles. There really is no one that unusuable. Heck, there's ways to train Rolf by abusing Chapter 12's mechanics.

My consistent units are:

-Ike

-Mist

-Soren

-Jill

But to the OP, I'd say go with whomever. Of course there are some units easier to use than others but there isn't a big gap of difference enough to say "never use this person" like, say, Fiona in FE10 hard mode.

Yeah, as I mentioned in my previous post, basically its like "Do you like X? Use BEXP if you think they need it"

Edited by Jedi
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Your definitely of that is a 39/100000 chance, so don't give me that. There's a nonzero chance of a lot of units dying per chapter, so we should never play Fire Emblem.

Don't put words in my mouth. Also, that's not even what I'm talking about.

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Don't put words in my mouth. Also, that's not even what I'm talking about.

You are saying that a tiny chance of failure is an issue.

I calculated the exact chance of death in the instance you mentioned (the two myrmidons) and you said "nah bruh Stefan still sucks cause he can die"

I'm not putting words in your mouth, you're the one saying this. Your definition of bad equates to what amounts to a 39/100000 chance of failure, which is extremely tiny.

Edited by Lord Raven
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You are saying that a tiny chance of failure is an issue.

I calculated the exact chance of death in the instance you mentioned (the two myrmidons) and you said "nah bruh Stefan still sucks cause he can die"

I'm not putting words in your mouth, you're the one saying this. Your definition of bad equates to what amounts to a 39/100000 chance of failure, which is extremely tiny.

You said yourself that Stefan was the best bosskiller. I can't agree when he faces a chance of death by critical hit against most bosses - a chance I'm not willing to take when I'm one to two turns away from winning (there's a big difference between what you outlined and being critkilled by a boss, after all). The only boss who wouldn't kill him with a crit is Oliver, though I'd still use someone else because Nosferatu is a spoiler.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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