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You said yourself that Stefan was the best bosskiller. I can't agree when he faces a chance of death by critical hit against most bosses - a chance I'm not willing to take when I'm one to two turns away from winning (there's a big difference between what you outlined and being critkilled by a boss, after all). The only boss who wouldn't kill him with a crit is Oliver, though I'd still use someone else because Nosferatu is a spoiler.

He has a vague katti, not only is his durability better with it but he'll critblick them before they have any chance at doing so back

Anyway why don't you crunch the numbers? Like an actual chance of death instead of saying "it's non zero!!"

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Yeah, as I mentioned in my previous post, basically its like "Do you like X? Use BEXP if you think they need it"

Pretty much. Heck, I never used Elincia because of her massive investment for BEXP, but I kind of want to in a future playthrough.

Out of my own curiosity, and assuming I did the math right, I figured out boss Attack and Crit chances (not factoring in Stefan's defenses):

Muarim:    36 Attack, 8 Crit
Kimaarsi:  27 Attack, 11 Crit (after +5 from Crit)
Oliver:    16 Attack, 7 Crit
Kayachey:  24 Attack, 7 Crit
Naesala:   39 Attack-15 Attack (wind attack), 13 Crit
Homasa:    26 Attack-22 Attack (Sonic Sword), 23 Crit after +15 SM Bonus)
Shiharam:  33 Attack, 8 Crit
Kasatai:   26 Attack, 7 Crit (can be 57 Crit if Wrath activates)
Ena:       40 Attack, 11 Crit
Schaeffer: 30-33 Attack (K. Bow or Axe), 38 (after +30 K. weapon bonus)
Petrine:   28 Attack (magic), 11 Crit
Rikard:    29-34 Attack, 10 Crit
Gromell:   26 Attack, 9 Crit (can be 14 Crit after Resolve)
Betram:    34 Attack (either Runesword or Spear), 12 Crit (17 after +5 from Spear)
Hafedd:    31-32 Attack, 13 Crit (18 Crit after +5 from Spear)
Heddwyn:   34-36 Attack, 9 Crit (14 or 19 after Bolting/Rexbolt Crit bonus)
Bryce:     44 Attack, 13 Crit (18 Crit after Wishblade)
Ashnard:   55-60 Attack, 13-15 Crit

There's an Ashera Icon in Chapter 8 and one in Chapter 16, the chapter after Stefan.

By Shiharam's chapter, you can have C support Soren and by Gromell B Soren. Heddwyn would be A Soren. One can have Mordecai C and B by the time one gets Soren's C. Max base Crit dodge and defense with A Soren, B Mordecai with two Ashera Icons would be 16 Crit dodge and 13 Def/10 Res.

Yeah, if he ate a crit by a boss except Oliver, he wouldn't survive theoretically (only considering bases), but after giving him Ashera Icons and Soren supports, he would dodge some boss' crit chances. And with someone like Schaeffer, you could steal the Killer Axe.

I was pretty curious.

EDIT: So tired Dual was tired Dual so fixed this table of stats. This is what I get for using doing the calculations on my own.

Edited by Dual Dragons
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Pretty much. Heck, I never used Elincia because of her massive investment for BEXP, but I kind of want to in a future playthrough.

Out of my own curiosity, and assuming I did the math right, I figured out boss Attack and Crit chances (not factoring in Stefan's defenses):

Muarim:    36 Attack, 8 Crit
Kimaarsi:  27 Attack, 11 Crit (after +5 from Crit)
Oliver:    16 Attack, 7 Crit
Kayachey:  24 Attack, 7 Crit
Naesala:   39 Attack-15 Attack (wind attack), 13 Crit
Homasa:    26 Attack-22 Attack (Sonic Sword), 23 Crit after +15 SM Bonus)
Shiharam:  33 Attack, 8 Crit
Kasatai:   26 Attack, 7 Crit (can be 10 Crit if Wrath activates)
Ena:       40 Attack, 11 Crit
Schaeffer: 30-33 Attack (K. Bow or Axe), 38 (after +30 K. weapon bonus)
Petrine:   28 Attack (magic), 11 Crit
Rikard:    29-34 Attack, 10 Crit
Gromell:   26 Attack, 9 Crit (can be 14 Crit after Resolve)
Betram:    34 Attack (either Runesword or Spear), 12 Crit (17 after +5 from Spear)
Hafedd:    31-32 Attack, 13 Crit (18 Crit after +5 from Spear)
Heddwyn:   34-36 Attack, 9 Crit (14 or 19 after Bolting/Rexbolt Crit bonus)
Bryce:     44 Attack, 13 Crit (18 Crit after Wishblade)
Ashnard:   55-60 Attack, 13-15 Crit

There's an Ashera Icon in Chapter 8 and one in Chapter 16, the chapter after Stefan.

By Shiharam's chapter, you can have C support Soren and by Gromell B Soren. Heddwyn would be A Soren. One can have Mordecai C and B by the time one gets Soren's C. Max base Crit dodge and defense with A Soren, B Mordecai with two Ashera Icons would be 16 Crit dodge and 13 Def/10 Res.

Yeah, if he ate a crit by a boss except Oliver, he wouldn't survive theoretically (only considering bases), but after giving him Ashera Icons and Soren supports, he would dodge some boss' crit chances. And with someone like Schaeffer, you could steal the Killer Axe.

I was pretty curious.

Supports don't give crit evade in Tellius. Also, where's Muarim's 36 attack coming from? He's Demi Banded, so those stats are wrong. Also, isn't Wrath a flat 50 crit boost? Ena's attack value is wrong too.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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Supports don't give crit evade in Tellius. Also, where's Muarim's 36 attack coming from? He's Demi Banded, so those stats are wrong.

Well whoops. I misread the support page and made that mistake.

Still a 9 Lck after two Ashera Icons grants him immunity to Oliver, Kayachey, Shiharam, Kasatai (without Wrath), and Gromell (without Resolve). If he somehow gets lucky or save-scummbed BEXP for +4 Lck, he gets crit immunity for bosses without crit bonuses or second form Ashnard. Even +2 or +3 would be wiping some worry from bosses. Not to mention that 9 Lck grants him crit immunity for a majority of enemies in the game. Those that don't are either special or have 10-11 crit.

I wouldn't know about using him for boss-killing since I would have someone promoted by Chapter 15 but, hey, I could see it happening for those bosses with <9 crit chance.

I didn't see a note on SF's boss data if Laguz stats are already factoring transformed stats so I put in Demi Band stats + Weapon stats. If they are already factored in, then just remove Demi Band stats. 23 Strength + 4 Demi Band Tiger stats + 9 Claw Might = 36 Attack. If the boss data already factored in Demi Band stats, then that's 32 Attack. So there you go.

As for your Wrath question, I think I was tired and thought when it says "adds 50% crit" it meant to x1.5 to the crit already there.

But not that I recommend having Stefan go up to someone under Wrath anyways... I never said that.

Edited by Dual Dragons
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Well whoops. I misread the support page and made that mistake.

Still a 9 Lck after two Ashera Icons grants him immunity to Oliver, Kayachey, Shiharam, Kasatai (without Wrath), and Gromell (without Resolve). If he somehow gets lucky or save-scummbed BEXP for +4 Lck, he gets crit immunity for bosses without crit bonuses or second form Ashnard. Even +2 or +3 would be wiping some worry from bosses. Not to mention that 9 Lck grants him crit immunity for a majority of enemies in the game. Those that don't are either special or have 10-11 crit.

I wouldn't know about using him for boss-killing since I would have someone promoted by Chapter 15 but, hey, I could see it happening for those bosses with <9 crit chance.

I didn't see a note on SF's boss data if Laguz stats are already factoring transformed stats so I put in Demi Band stats + Weapon stats. If they are already factored in, then just remove Demi Band stats. 23 Strength + 4 Demi Band Tiger stats + 9 Claw Might = 36 Attack. If the boss data already factored in Demi Band stats, then that's 32 Attack. So there you go.

As for your Wrath question, I think I was tired and thought when it says "adds 50% crit" it meant to x1.5 to the crit already there.

But not that I recommend having Stefan go up to someone under Wrath anyways... I never said that.

The issue is, the boss data's wrong, because it uses Muarim and Ena's full transformed stats, and both of them are banded.

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The issue is, the boss data's wrong, because it uses Muarim and Ena's full transformed stats, and both of them are banded.

They're not. I just explained Muarim's.

http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/classes/transformation/

Tiger (M) give +7 Strength and the page specifically stats decimals from Demi Band are rounded up.

Ena: 27 Strength + 3 (+5/2 = 2.5 = 3 rounded up) + 10 = 40 Attack

Again, I said I assumed the boss data on SF's page for FE9 did not already include Demi Band stats or weapon stats because the page doesn't state that it already includes transformed and weapon stats; however, if you want to know without Demi Band stats, Ena's is 27 + 10 = 37.

I thought you were more worried about crit chance than Attack. The data assumes Stefan is guaranteed getting hit, as Lord Raven points out.

EDIT: The only thing I can think of is that it's because I'm using the SF's FE9 boss data, transformation, and weapons pages instead of using the HM stats thread (didn't know it existed), which may likely be taking stats as though the game was right there and the stats being recorded.

If so, then refer to that page instead of the table... which only shows that Muarim has even less Attack and has crit that one Ashera Icon Stefan can attack freely without a chance for crit.

Which... only makes it look better for Stefan than worse?

Edited by Dual Dragons
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3 points is hardly "a lot". But of course, that's assuming both of them are promoting around the same time.

3 points is a lot for speed. That's the difference between doubling and them not doubling as 3 is a pretty good threshold for enemies that you might miss out on doubling (even if 4 is the actually required number). It's huge. If we were talking about evasion it's not, but for offense it most certainly is. And no, Mist is hardly promoting at the same time as Marcia. Marcia will gain at least 1 level per chapter. Mist will be lucky to gain 1 level per chapter. Even assuming they did, Marcia would still promote first.

Levant covered this already: Why should I spend on a resource to make someone who's objectively worst than Mist suck less? If anything, that energy Drop should be going to Mist.

Because both of them suck? Why would I give Mist a forged sword to watch her suck at attack when I can give that to well... ANYONE and they'd do better with it? I'm hard pressed to find actual promoted people that could suck less with a forged sword than Mist. Even with her having an energy drop and they don't. That's how terrible her attack is. Both of them suck and require an obscene amount of babying. If you promote Mist in a timely manner to where her mount could compete with Rhys, she's not hitting level 20. Period. Rhys usually isn't either, but it's more likely to happen than Mist.

Neither of whom are his most viable, nor is he theirs. Those bonuses won't even come into play with those pairs. No, Rhys's most viable supports are Mia (who likely won't be fielded) and Rolf (who sucks), neither of whom buff defense.

Doesn't matter. Mist with a forged sword is already reaching "not viable" statues, so we're already outside of that land of viability. We're giving them things that directly benefit them without slowing down our gameplay to obscenely slow levels. Mist isn't really going to support with Titania then. Titania wants Ike and Boyd, as Boyd wants extra defense and Titania appreciates the extra attack and not having to bother with slowing down with Mist because she runs slower than Boyd AND requires protection, which is already just plain worse. Rhys doesn't want Rolf at all. No one wants Wind if they can help it. And Rolf is no exception here.

She's still helpful there all the same.

Not really. The soldiers can easily defeat her so she spends less time fighting and more time running away and healing herself rather than Ike. Wrath Ike makes the fight far less RNG garbage.

Not if she's toting a Magic Weapon, which would be pretty likely by then.

Good luck having Mist not only attack for 90 points worth of WEXP, but also maintain the Sonic Sword for however many chapters it took for her to finally break that forge, remain viable on her offensive attacking, and if she broke the SS, get to an A rank in the meantime to get the Runesword.

Dude. BEXP exists. I've had no problems having her promoted at the same time as her own brother, for one.

Okay, so I use it on Rhys with a thief band ensuring that his speed levels every 2 levels instead thus placing his speed at 15 (instead of 13) when he promotes, I then give him a speed wing which makes his speed 17, and he's actually decently fast.

And that's a total of 38 battles, in the span of 9 maps. Is it really that much?

Yes. Especially for someone that's not terribly durable, is unlikely to finish things off which means she's going to eat damage to the face, has low skill, low damage output, and is facing weapon triangle disadvantage a lot of the time because of the crazy amounts of paladin spam. That's ignoring the fact that the biggest thing we have Mist for is healing. Fortunately, you don't have to hit to gain EXP, but that's not doing any favors for her.

But the only time where Mist can attack to even defend herself is post-promotion. So...

This is a point against her rather than for her. Because you're unpromoted more than you're promoted, and her best supports are all mounted units or people that run like mounted units.

Giving her that would be the dumbest idea ever when people only use that for Ena, Nasir, or Ike to defeat the final boss. Since nobody else but the royal Laguz can ever lay a hand on him.

Of which Resolve does a great job of that on its own. I'd never give Ena Vantage / Wrath. She's pretty bad. Hardly worth keeping those two skills off for that long.
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