Do you like the story telling in the Tellius games?

[Dinar87]

If so, what did you like about it? Any specific scenes? And if you hated it, how could it be improved? Are the GBA games as good at world building and character development as the tellius games, better or worse?

Edited July 23, 2016 by Dinar87

[Michelaar]

I voted the middle one. Some parts I really liked, like Greil's death scene, but others were just plain boring and uninteresting.

[Dinar87]

I voted the middle one. Some parts I really liked, like Greil's death scene, but others were just plain boring and uninteresting

Like what? Since I'll eventually be making my own game in the future I'd like to know what to avoid doing....

Edited July 23, 2016 by Dinar87

[blah the Prussian]

I liked the worldbuilding, the nuance of Begnion, Ashnard, and a bunch of other stuff. I didn't, however, like the Black Knight. I think the Black Knight in Tellius is a boring villain who distracts from the main story; defeating Ashnard. Basically, even though Ike's goal is to beat Ashnard, the Black Knight gets most of the buildup. This creates a situation where most of the buildup over the course of the game is spent on the fight with the Black Knight, rather than on the fight with Ashnard, where it belongs. Having Ashnard be the one to kill Greil instead of the Black Knight would have been far better.

[Dinar87]

I liked the worldbuilding, the nuance of Begnion, Ashnard, and a bunch of other stuff. I didn't, however, like the Black Knight. I think the Black Knight in Tellius is a boring villain who distracts from the main story; defeating Ashnard. Basically, even though Ike's goal is to beat Ashnard, the Black Knight gets most of the buildup. This creates a situation where most of the buildup over the course of the game is spent on the fight with the Black Knight, rather than on the fight with Ashnard, where it belongs. Having Ashnard be the one to kill Greil instead of the Black Knight would have been far better.

In that sense the black knight was essentially unneeded.

[blah the Prussian]

In that sense the black knight was essentially unneeded.

Yeah, pretty much. I have a theory that he exists because one day everyone at IS got drunk and were like "You know what FE needs? Darth Vader!"

[Anacybele]

I loved Tellius's story! I think it's the best in the series so far. Though it's not without its flaws, I have to admit. It could've been even better than it already is.

[EricaofRenais]

I vote the middle one, because while most parts were great RD has some problems like the blood pact could have been done much better and Ike being shoved in the main lord spot. I still love RD but I am willing now to talk about is flaws, and the other thing I feel is it might have been better if it was divided into two games and had more world building but that is just me.

[MCProductions]

I voted the middle one, because while POR is my favorite FE plot even if that isn't saying much, RD is BY FAR my least favorite story in the series, and hell, if MGS5 and Halo 5 didn't exist, it would be my least favorite videogame plot.

That said, POR does a nice job of things, even if suffers from "need to advertise the sequel" syndrome

[Fire Emblem Fan]

For the most part. A lot of Radiant Dawn is a hot mess, though.

[Michelaar]

Like what? Since I'll eventually be making my own game in the future I'd like to know what to avoid doing....

Like the very long scenes where not much happens. Where they just talk about the future and all that stuff

[Augestein]

I liked the worldbuilding, the nuance of Begnion, Ashnard, and a bunch of other stuff. I didn't, however, like the Black Knight. I think the Black Knight in Tellius is a boring villain who distracts from the main story; defeating Ashnard. Basically, even though Ike's goal is to beat Ashnard, the Black Knight gets most of the buildup. This creates a situation where most of the buildup over the course of the game is spent on the fight with the Black Knight, rather than on the fight with Ashnard, where it belongs. Having Ashnard be the one to kill Greil instead of the Black Knight would have been far better.

I think that's more that the game has this weird insistence that Ike should be the main character rather than Elincia's comrade. Take a look at RD for instance, it'd be like having Sothe be the main character of Radiant Dawn rather than... Well Micaiah for the parts that they are in. Thus, the Black Knight is important to Ike, so it comes across as more important than Ashnard, because ultimately we have Elincia's quest as just a job for Ike.

I honestly feel that the game should have had Elincia and Ike modes respectively.

[MCProductions]

I think that's more that the game has this weird insistence that Ike should be the main character rather than Elincia's comrade. Take a look at RD for instance, it'd be like having Sothe be the main character of Radiant Dawn rather than... Well Micaiah for the parts that they are in. Thus, the Black Knight is important to Ike, so it comes across as more important than Ashnard, because ultimately we have Elincia's quest as just a job for Ike.

I honestly feel that the game should have had Elincia and Ike modes respectively.

I like this idea, especially since, while I like Ike as a character in POR anyway, I don't think he deserves to be the main character in an FE setting. The Lord needs to be a noble imo, because otherwise I have trouble believing a character in a MEDEVIL society would be able to actually lead an army, and while that IS a plot point in POR in the Begnion arc, it still doesn't explain the first half of the game for me.

[blah the Prussian]

I think that's more that the game has this weird insistence that Ike should be the main character rather than Elincia's comrade. Take a look at RD for instance, it'd be like having Sothe be the main character of Radiant Dawn rather than... Well Micaiah for the parts that they are in. Thus, the Black Knight is important to Ike, so it comes across as more important than Ashnard, because ultimately we have Elincia's quest as just a job for Ike.

I honestly feel that the game should have had Elincia and Ike modes respectively.

I would have liked Elincia and Ike to be co lords, but I'm willing to accept that they aren't, because Ike's character arc is decent. My point about the Black Knight is that there is no reason for him to exist other than to turn Ike's story from being about beating Daein to beating the Black Knight.

[Jave]

I like the overall worldbuilding and characters in Tellius, but the execution of the story can range from Okay to Absolutely Terrible depending on what part of the game you are. (FE9 is good for the most part, but FE10 goes to hell once Part 3 hits).

[Augestein]

I would have liked Elincia and Ike to be co lords, but I'm willing to accept that they aren't, because Ike's character arc is decent. My point about the Black Knight is that there is no reason for him to exist other than to turn Ike's story from being about beating Daein to beating the Black Knight.

Well the issue I think is that Greil himself is too strong to be left alive, and Ashnard isn't the type to retreat once he's on the battle field.

[NinjaMonkey]

I liked the story telling in RD, but I found PoR's to be bland, cliche and predictably boring.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Path of Radiance is a great overall story. We see Ike mature from a young mercenary to a seasoned veteran and viable commander. He becomes more worldly and knowledgeable by encountering and befriending people from different nations and races (see: Lethe, Jill, Reyson, Tormod/Muarim, Kurthnaga). Ike and co. are also brought into the war through interesting methods (while they seem to not be invested at the beginning, their chance encounter with a Daein force and Elincia force their hand) versus the "oh hey we're at war now let's fight" method that is prevalent in other Fire Emblem titles. POR has great characters and development of said characters. It presents some of the best character arcs in the series, especially Ike and Jill. Unfortunately the endgame has a few holes, namely shoehorning Elincia toward the end as well as the sudden MacGuffin of the Medallion. Also, as mentioned earlier, Ashnard is quite a pathetic final boss given that the entire story focuses on Ike versus Black Knight. I feel like they planned all along for him to come back in the sequel and so they just threw in a few teases, but then realized they needed a final boss, so Ashnard was created. At the very least Ashnard should have had a hand in Greil's death, thus giving Ike more of a connection to him. Ike himself doesn't even recognize Ashnard when he finally appears in Endgame. Ashnard ordering the Black Knight to kill Greil would have made the Ike/Ashnard connection better.

Radiant Dawn has its good points, namely the beginning with the Dawn Brigade and Elincia's arc in Part 2. The Dawn Brigade start as mythical figures almost, and their deeds actually seem to back this claim. They free Daein from oppression and drive out Begnion. Unfortunately the Pelleas and Black Knight arcs ruin this, as they drive away from the main story. Pelleas is more of a burden than a good character, and he drags down the Dawn Brigade as a legitimate force of liberation and instead makes them his bitch. The Black Knight was just... no. Once again, characters more important than the main character showing up and undermining her role, but because Micaiah is the main character the attention is still forced on her even though she really shouldn't have it. Part 2 is, honestly, the best arc in the series. Elincia's growth as a character is one of the best and it really explores some interesting themes. While some of the chapters in terms of gameplay are not the greatest, it provides a great story that makes you actually enjoy the characters. Everyone in this arc seems to have a relevance to the plot, and it wasn't a "shoehorn random Path of Radiance characters into the game again" excuse like some of the other parts of the game (Danved excluded). Part 3 is when the game begins to go downhill. The Greil Mercenaries' introduction starts fairly strong, and they have a bit of an excuse to participate in the war. When Daein gets involved--it gets bad, and quickly. Micaiah is elevated to the status of a god with no reason, and the Daeins become somewhat of zealots blindly following her. We're reaching cult-like status here with them. Anyone who questions Micaiah is quickly shut down and accused of treason. Pelleas is an absolute joke of a character and the only reason I select option 3 is because I want a Dark Magic user. This part is where Path of Radiance characters are shoehorned in to bring them into the plot whether or not they are actually relevant. All of Elincia's character development in Part 2 is gone because the game decided to throw her into the plot again even though realistically Crimea should be focused on its reconstruction and its reconstruction alone. The Blood Pact is not fleshed out enough and is the MacGuffin of this game... and like Lehran's Medallion, it's also not fleshed out enough, so you don't care enough about it. Part 4 is where everything also completely derails, making Micaiah and Ike like gods even though they don't deserve said treatment, and completely ignores everyone else in the game. Part 4 is just ridiculous on top of bullshit, and then the ending. THEY LITERALLY KILL A GOD. After the game says that Ashera and Yune cancel each other out and cannot destroy each other.

The less said about the terrible support system in FE10, the better.

[blah the Prussian]

Well the issue I think is that Greil himself is too strong to be left alive, and Ashnard isn't the type to retreat once he's on the battle field.

Simple: have Ike be watching in a hiding spot, and only come out once Ashnard leaves.

[Thane]

I voted for the middle one. It's the most developed world of the localized Fire Emblem games (although that isn't saying very much), some characters are almost impossible to dislike and the way more minor characters are used in the story is far superior to the installments that came before and after. The game actually touches upon subjects like military tactics, supplies, morale and politics and their effects on the army and future battles which adds to the immersion and realism factor.

That being said, the games have some jarring problems as well, in my humble opinion. First and foremost, the villains in the Tellius series are shit. I have no other way of describing them; I find them uninteresting and occasionally laughable for all the wrong reasons, and I get annoyed more than anything whenever they appear. The series (or at least the localized installments with which I'm familiar) struggles immensely to write interesting and credible villains, and the Gamecube era is no exception - the only one that actually makes me feel anything is Lyon, and even then it's because of him and not the little bugger possessing him. In Radiant Dawn, however, you fight other playable characters, and I find that absolutely amazing.

I think the Black Knight is the biggest offender to just being annoying rather than the cool, imposing figure he's supposed to be; I don't give a hoot about him and towards the end of the duology he comes across as a whiny brat that gets forgiven for his nonsense, something that made me roll my eyes.

Meanwhile, Ashnard is just sort of there, and as I always describe him, he's just a bully on steroids. There's no complexity to him, and while I know people like debating the deeper meanings of his views on the world, I just don't see it. He's arguably the least personal villain in the localized games since he's so uninvolved in the plot that Ike doesn't even recognize him when they meet in the final chapter. He's also painted as a complete idiot, going against his own supposed morals of the strong ruling (proving that he's weak and inefficient) and joins Nergal and Garon in the esteemed "I could totes kill you right now, but I won't even though you can only do harm if kept alive" club.

I will, however, say that I loved Ashnard's line in Path of Radiance about having killed all of his family members so quickly that people thought it was a disease. Too bad this was neutered in Radiant Dawn.

Moving on, I find Path of Radiance to be incredibly mediocre. The world-building is there, and so are some characters, but the plot is so incredibly simple. Fortunately, Radiant Dawn expands upon the ideas and characters introduced in its predecessor and delivers a much more interesting tale, even if it's overambitious and fails to deliver in many areas, like with Micaiah.

As a final note to your more specific question: no, the GBA games are not better than the Tellius games; Sacred Stones is very simplistic while Blazing Sword is the only game in the series that even comes close to the horrible story of Fates.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Thane

[Rezzy]

I loved the Tellius stories. There was that Blood Pact nonsense. I felt it could have survived being a plot point for Ashnard and Pelleas, but adding Naesala to the mix just strains credibility. Why not just give Blood Pacts to everybody at that point?

[Azure Sen]

Yes and no. On the one hand, the worldbuilding is pretty great, a lot of foreshadowing for RD's plot elements was set up well in PoR, there are quite a few well-written and enjoyable characters, all of the countries feel fleshed out and developed, and Elincia's character arc in RD is probably one of the best in the series. On the other hand good worldbuilding aside PoR is mostly just bland, Ike is a boring protagonist with an equally boring arc in PoR and no plot relevance in RD, the villains mostly range from "unrepentant monsters" to "unrepentant monsters that the narrative doesn't want you to think are monsters," RD is a bit of a mess as a whole, the blood pact wasn't handled well, and there are plenty of poorly-written characters from both games.

[Katie]

Somewhat. PoR was decent, RD less so.

[Rapier]

I would have liked Elincia and Ike to be co lords, but I'm willing to accept that they aren't, because Ike's character arc is decent. My point about the Black Knight is that there is no reason for him to exist other than to turn Ike's story from being about beating Daein to beating the Black Knight.

The BK also exists so that Ike also has a personal motive for going against Daein, instead of fighting for Crimea merely because of Elincia. You could say Ashnard could've done what the BK did for the same result, but it's more understandable that a Dragon with an Agenda went off to kill Greil than the king of Daein, who was busy with the occupation of Crimea. imo Ashnard is the rival to Elincia while the BK is the rival to Ike, and it works well.

I loved PoR's storytelling (plot, story, worldbuilding, characters, and most of all, base conversations that explore the scenario around the characters and show more about their personalities and backgrounds). RD was flawed because, being a 4 parts game, it didn't explore the liberation of Daein as well as the liberation of Crimea on the past game, some parts of its story felt rushed while others dragged (like part 4 and the laguz alliance war vs Begnion), and the Blood Pact made the conflict between Micaiah and Ike feel more forced than it could've been if they were fighting for personal motives alone.

[Luchi]

Yes, but only for Part 2 of RD. PoR is a cliched snore fest and RD is just... I don't want to beat a dead horse. Yes, the world-building is great but fantasy racism just needs to die in a hole because it's been done to death. And don't get me started on Part IV ( but 4-2 and 4-5 were good because it tied up events from FE9, and the fact that it had better characters too ) when they yeah... defeat a goddess and Ike goes God-Mode Stu. Tellius as a whole also suffers from an incredibly boring Lord with a predictable character arc. The Dawn Brigade and the plot suffers because of poor writing and when you try to combine all of this and make it into some huge epic, well, you've essentially put a nail in your own coffin. Micaiah had so much potential but again, she is not only hurt by the game's atrocious pacing, but King Kong and his band of Scene-Stealing Monkeys ( who already had an entire game to themselves ) come along to eat up 90% of Part 3.

It still baffles me how a gem like Part 2 and turds like Parts 3 and 4 can exist in the same game, but I probably have a simple answer for that: Elincia, her retainers and the rest of the CRKS are simply better written characters than the GMs and DBs. And great characters often make for great stories.