Does Ike actually have any character flaws?

[Jedi]

Ike's brashness almost gets Mist and Rolf killed, if Shinon didn't save them in chapter 2, but thats about the only time it could have gone really bad, he gets a little lucky with Kurth and Sanaki.

I think also his quote vs the Black Knight in Blood Runs Red is very telling that if he actually got close to the BK (which results in death if the player lets that happen) that it could spell the end for him, but it doesn't really go into the story much aside from his challenging the BK without Ragnell after the group saves Geoffrey.

Not many flaws, but certainly not the worst in this category.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Jedi

[UNLEASH IT]

In PoR, he had a few flaws.

RD, not so much.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Chad Thundercock

[Loki Laufeyson]

Ike literally is green as summer's grass, and extremely brash to boot. Since this is a JRPG made by Nintendo, his flaws arent addressed with massive depth, but they do come up. Like the situation where he basically barks at Sanaki and people are like "bro, naw." Or tries to take on BK when he shouldnt, etc. His biggest flaw is discussed with the Sanaki scene. He lacks a real consideration for how things work in various areas, and this is something he actually changes subtlely as the game wears on. After the Begnion arc in PoR, Ike seems a bit more professional, especially when dealing with Tibarn.

In Radiant Dawn, there is a problem where he lacks any further growth to his character. Its a shame cuz other characters like Elincia get some love in this department. Hes rather static here.

[FrostyFireMage]

Ike is a good character in FE9. In FE10 he exists only for FE9 fan-service and to show off how cool and powerful he is.

[Etrurian emperor]

One flaw could be that Ike doesn't understand beorc culture and never really gets a desire to try to understand it either. He just writes it all off and deems the good ones as exceptions to the rule. That leads to Ike insulting the Apostle which only doesn't endanger the whole endeavor and his life because Sanaki isn't as bad as he thinks she is.

Its never really pointed out but you could also say Ike just renouncing his title and going away from the Crimean court in disgust wasn't his grandest moment either seeing as how much Elincia was struggling.

[MCProductions]

One flaw could be that Ike doesn't understand beorc culture and never really gets a desire to try to understand it either. He just writes it all off and deems the good ones as exceptions to the rule. That leads to Ike insulting the Apostle which only doesn't endanger the whole endeavor and his life because Sanaki isn't as bad as he thinks she is.

Its never really pointed out but you could also say Ike just renouncing his title and going away from the Crimean court in disgust wasn't his grandest moment either seeing as how much Elincia was struggling.

The real problem there is that while that COULD be seen as a flaw, RD doesn't do that. In fact, doesn't RD actually claim if he HAD stayed, the Crimean nobles would've revolted sooner?

[The DanMan]

The Ike praise reminds me of all the people propping up the original Xenoblade's story when it turned out X went in a different direction; while better than some more recent stuff, it's far from perfect. It seems like Ike used to be much more criticized, but now he's taken a back seat and looked upon mostly positively.

[Water Mage]

Its never really pointed out but you could also say Ike just renouncing his title and going away from the Crimean court in disgust wasn't his grandest moment either seeing as how much Elincia was struggling.

I think the game actually praised Ike for that.

[Anacybele]

I think the game actually praised Ike for that.

I don't remember either game praising OR criticizing him for it... Just "Ike renounced his title." :/

But wow, I'm rather shocked at how many people think Ike is a Stu. Some people must have very different definitions of it than others.

Also, yeah, he's mostly praised in RD. But that's because he became this major hero three years before! Why WOULDN'T a lot of people respect him?

Edited August 8, 2016 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

PoR!Ike at the very least has flaws. Like stupidly charging the Black Knight when he has no chance of beating him, or shouting at the empress of the country whose favor Elincia is trying to win, and it's most definitely not Ike who's coming up with these tactics on the battlefield. I think the only reason why PoR!Ike's flaws don't kick his ass as much as the other lords' flaws do is because he has Soren and Titania to cover his butt.

RD!Ike, on the other hand ... I'm not sure if he has flaws.

[MCProductions]

I don't remember either game praising OR criticizing him for it... Just "Ike renounced his title." :/

But wow, I'm rather shocked at how many people think Ike is a Stu. Some people must have very different definitions of it than others.

Also, yeah, he's mostly praised in RD. But that's because he became this major hero three years before! Why WOULDN'T a lot of people respect him?

Because reasonably what he accomplished would've been credited to Elincia, not Ike. Logically speaking, the only characters who should respect Ike the level he gets in RD are the Greil Mercs, Sothe, Elincia, Lethe, Ranulf, and Mordecai, yet a plot point in RD is that basically everyone BUT the average joe of Daein considers him a great hero.

[Sunwoo]

In all fairness, when Daein underwent their own revolution in part 1, the soldiers and the people loved Micaiah the hero a lot more than Pelleas their king. If I had to compare the two, Elincia was regarded more highly by her people than Pelleas was by his people.

[Anacybele]

Because reasonably what he accomplished would've been credited to Elincia, not Ike. Logically speaking, the only characters who should respect Ike the level he gets in RD are the Greil Mercs, Sothe, Elincia, Lethe, Ranulf, and Mordecai, yet a plot point in RD is that basically everyone BUT the average joe of Daein considers him a great hero.

Because he WAS a great hero! Elincia was the one who put him in command of her army, but Ike did the commanding and ass-kicking. He saved Geoffrey in Delbray, he defeated the Black Knight (as far as anyone knew at this point), and he defeated the rest of the Daein Riders and then Ashnard as well. Ashnard had sent dragons and other feral laguz against him and his army too. He also managed to gain the trust and respect of multiple laguz tribes, including the herons when Reyson was on the verge of wiping out all beorc!

In all seriousness, Ike wasn't just a hero on the battlefield, he was also a hero in bringing different people together. There's a reason we get that little image of him at the end of RD reiterating his legacy.

This was a guy who did what he had to do and earned respect in the process. He went from a nobody to a big hero.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Anacybele

[Rezzy]

Ike has plenty of flaws in PoR. His worst mistake was not throwing Sanaki overboard and ridding the world of her when he had the chance, when he first met the brat, leaving him open to risk having him and his party killed later for offending the urchin by not playing along with her petulance. If he simply killed her when she ran away on the ship playing hide and seek, she would have drowned, and no one would have been any the wiser.

In RD, like others have said, he's justifiably treated like a super hero, but adding some gray to his side of the story would have helped.

[MCProductions]

Because he WAS a great hero! Elincia was the one who put him in command of her army, but Ike did the commanding and ass-kicking. He saved Geoffrey in Delbray, he defeated the Black Knight (as far as anyone knew at this point), and he defeated the rest of the Daein Riders and then Ashnard as well. Ashnard had sent dragons and other feral laguz against him and his army too. He also managed to gain the trust and respect of multiple laguz tribes, including the herons when Reyson was on the verge of wiping out all beorc!

In all seriousness, Ike wasn't just a hero on the battlefield, he was also a hero in bringing different people together. There's a reason we get that little image of him at the end of RD reiterating his legacy.

This was a guy who did what he had to do and earned respect in the process. He went from a nobody to a big hero.

Here's the thing tho, Soren DID the planning and commanding, and Elincia was effectively considered the commander of what was left of the Crimean army by everyone else even if she did put him in charge of managing the damn thing, and by that I mean Titania and Soren. Hell, if it wasn't for the BK, I'm almost certain Elincia would've been POR's lord, and I still think it's bullshit the Greil mercs would get ANY reconition outside of Crimea after POR, due to an interesting tidbit Soren mentions in POR about how politics would get their actions swept under the rug. In game, this is used as justification to not have Begnion roflstomp Daein for you, but with Gallia helping out anyway, and Elincia's and Caineighis' dream of Beorc Laguz unity, Ashnard's defeat should've ended with Elincia being seen as a great hero, not Ike, with the exception of the people I mentioned in my first post anyway.

[Sunwoo]

Ike has plenty of flaws in PoR. His worst mistake was not throwing Sanaki overboard and ridding the world of her when he had the chance, when he first met the brat, leaving him open to risk having him and his party killed later for offending the urchin by not playing along with her petulance. If he simply killed her when she ran away on the ship playing hide and seek, she would have drowned, and no one would have been any the wiser.

What the actual fuck

[Rezzy]

What the actual fuck

He dropped the ball in ridding the world of that false apostle.

I'm like antifangirl for Sanaki. It's refreshing to have a character you can loathe without any redeeming qualities.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Rezzy

[Sunwoo]

He dropped the ball in ridding the world of that false apostle.

I'm like antifangirl for Sanaki. It's refreshing to have a character you can loathe without any redeeming qualities.

What the actual fuck

First of all, you're completely and objectively wrong about Sanaki not having any redeeming qualities, and I question if we were playing the same game if you unironically think that. But this isn't about what you feel about Sanaki. I don't care whether you dislike her or how you feel about her, but have you forgotten that Sanaki is literally ten years old when she is introduced in PoR?

Here is a little girl who has, since the age of five, been raised to believe that she is the most powerful and important person in the entire world. A child who has been given limitless power and told that she is the voice of the goddess at that young an age, who has people catering to her every whim, is naturally doomed to be a brat. And in that respect, it's a miracle that Sanaki hasn't turned out WORSE. She stopped the senators from executing Ike after he badmouthed her and even overlooked it. She wants to end laguz discrimination and apologized to Leanne and Reyson for something that happened long before she was even born.

And more importantly, I just cannot understand how you think it's perfectly all right and there's nothing wrong with it to say that a 10-year-old girl, fictional or not, should've been brutally killed just because she's "a brat".

[-Cynthia-]

Ike has a few flaws. The scene where he insults the apostle actually is painted as a bad or at least highly questionable move, as his friends admonish him afterwards.

Just... he doesn't have very many flaws, and he does some very "Stu-y" traits. One big one is how he is placed in charge of a band of mercenaries at age 17 despite no experience because of nepotism (but he's not a noble, we promise!) and the game expecting us to take his side instead of that of Shinon and Gatrie, the former of whom is painted with a large brush of negative traits (racist, drunk, money-grubber) so that we have no doubt. Or the fact that pretty much every major player in the world befriends/admires him, or how the ending to RD is all about what a perfect person he was. It certainly got worse in RD than in PoR, but it was always there, and I think it's part of why I find the post-Begnion sections of PoR frustrating.

There are certainly worse lords in this regard in the series, but Ike is still pretty bad about it.

Yeah, I agree that some of the problems were there in PoR as well. The Geoffrey rescue chapter in particular bothered me- Lucia and Bastian are awfully quick to abandon Geoffrey for no super logical reason (oh noez a surprise Daein army...when Ike and co. have already kicked Daein out of their own country). Lucia and Bastian are completely wrong, Ike is completely correct and saves the day. I guess it was a way to highlight the loyalty Elincia's retainers have for her, but how it was written rubs me the wrong way.

[Rezzy]

What the actual fuck

First of all, you're completely and objectively wrong about Sanaki not having any redeeming qualities, and I question if we were playing the same game if you unironically think that. But this isn't about what you feel about Sanaki. I don't care whether you dislike her or how you feel about her, but have you forgotten that Sanaki is literally ten years old when she is introduced in PoR?

Here is a little girl who has, since the age of five, been raised to believe that she is the most powerful and important person in the entire world. A child who has been given limitless power and told that she is the voice of the goddess at that young an age, who has people catering to her every whim, is naturally doomed to be a brat. And in that respect, it's a miracle that Sanaki hasn't turned out WORSE. She stopped the senators from executing Ike after he badmouthed her and even overlooked it. She wants to end laguz discrimination and apologized to Leanne and Reyson for something that happened long before she was even born.

And more importantly, I just cannot understand how you think it's perfectly all right and there's nothing wrong with it to say that a 10-year-old girl, fictional or not, should've been brutally killed just because she's "a brat".

She's a fictional character, so wishing she'd die isn't beyond the pale. I have kids of my own, so I'm no stranger to bratty behavior, and when paired with supreme power, it makes me quickly hate a character.

She has a believable reason to be a brat, but that doesn't excuse her behavior. Most well written villains have well reasoned backstories and justifications for their decent into villainy, but it doesn't excuse their behavior.

First impressions are everything. When we first meet her, she puts herself and her retainers in danger for wandering off for no reason, then acts like a brat when she's rescued by Ike and company.

Sure, she prevents the senators from killing Ike for his slight, but only because she put him into that position in the first place. They say you can judge a person by how they treat someone who can do no good for you. Here, we see Sanaki's true colors. She knows Elincia's true nature, but she toys with and belittles Elincia. If she had a modicum of compassion, Ike never would have felt the need to defend her. If you went the an orphanage and donated $100, but also went up to the orphans and started teasing them about their parents dying, that would still be a net karmic negative.

Sanaki has the unique position of figurehead, making her feel lioke she has absolute power, while most of the real power is with the senators. It was nice she felt the need to apologize for the Serenes Massacre, but in the end, what did it really accomplish? Ike did the heavy lifting in smoothing the bird tribes' feathers. Sanaki helped, but really, the Herons are a dead race, they only have 3-4 members left, all of which are related, and only one female. If anything it gave false hope to the other bird tribes, leaving them open to think they had a diplomatic relationship, which led to war in only 3 years. If they had maintained their former cautious stance, they might have not felt so betrayed, leading to their pointless war of vengeance, which engulfed the continent in war. Sanaki should have the best interests of her people at heart, but in the end, she just does whatever whim she has at the moment.

There are examples of the Pope Kid being done better, or more likably, at least. Fon Master Ion in Tales of the Abyss has pretty much the same job, and he's not a total brat.

If you like Sanaki, that's fine. I'll agree to disagree.

[Sunwoo]

Again -- I don't care whether you like Sanaki or not. But I find it highly disturbing that you'd wish death upon a fictional ten-year-old girl. Even if she's fictional, wishing death upon characters especially if they haven't done anything actually wrong (and by wrong I mean like mass murder wrong) is disturbing. And with you having kids of your own, I would think you'd be more understanding and realize that Sanaki is actually nowhere near as bad as she could've been as a brat.

[Magical Glace]

Sanaki is fairly responsible for a 10 year old puppet ruler of the most powerful nation on the continent.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

I mean, I don't think you need to change your thinking process, Rezzy. But I think there is a difference in wishing death on Sanaki, a girl who is a bit bratty, but is overall a good person, rather than... let's say... wishing Jaffar murdered Zephiel, a kid who does grow up being a bratty piece of shit and is not a good person.

[Magical Glace]

I mean, I don't think you need to change your thinking process, Rezzy. But I think there is a difference in wishing death on Sanaki, a girl who is a bit bratty, but is overall a good person, rather than... let's say... wishing Jaffar murdered Zephiel, a kid who does grow up being a bratty piece of shit and is not a good person.

Wait I thought the point of FE7!Zephiel is he was overall a good, talented person who literally just wanted his family to live happily together and unfortunate circumstances caused him to go crazy?

Basically what I'm saying is Zephiel in FE7 never struck me as bratty at all.

Also, Rezzy, throwing Sanaki off the boat is a bad decision no matter how you look at it. It would make the group enemies of the entire Begnion Empire, the exact opposite of what they wanted.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Etrurian emperor]

Sanaki has the unique position of figurehead, making her feel lioke she has absolute power, while most of the real power is with the senators. It was nice she felt the need to apologize for the Serenes Massacre, but in the end, what did it really accomplish? Ike did the heavy lifting in smoothing the bird tribes' feathers. Sanaki helped, but really, the Herons are a dead race, they only have 3-4 members left, all of which are related, and only one female. If anything it gave false hope to the other bird tribes, leaving them open to think they had a diplomatic relationship, which led to war in only 3 years. If they had maintained their former cautious stance, they might have not felt so betrayed, leading to their pointless war of vengeance, which engulfed the continent in war. Sanaki should have the best interests of her people at heart, but in the end, she just does whatever whim she has at the moment.

There are examples of the Pope Kid being done better, or more likably, at least. Fon Master Ion in Tales of the Abyss has pretty much the same job, and he's not a total brat.

Oh yes. Ion certainly was very likable. I had my doubts about a character that either feints or gets kidnapped twice a day but Ion's just to nice a kid to dislike.

But I wouldn't sell Sanaki short either. She just doesn't have the bagage that more or less forces Ion to think he needs to be super kind for him to have value and the unofficial manga states that the Ion who didn't have that bagage was...kind of a complete and utter monster actually. The game does kinda do that as well when you take a look at Sync.

I wouldn't say the power lies with the Senators instead of Sanaki. That Lekain wants Sanaki removed and that he begrudges the activities of her and Sephiran does indicate they are a massive thorn in their side. Sanaki also has the loyalty of both the army and the people. The central army defects to her the moment she shows up and Sephiran has little problems arranging a revolution against the senate in her name. Once Sanaki joins the Begnion army stops being a foe as the Senate starts relying more on Daien.I also don't think her stance has anything to do with the war. The senators were discovered to be behind the genocide so Tibarn would be out for blood no matter what Sanaki did or didn't do, she was probably the source of what little good will there still was between Begnion and the Laguz.

I agree with Sunwoo in that Sanaki is far nicer then she has any reason to be. I find Sanaki such a good kid ruler because she's both a good ruler while also clearly still being a child.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Etrurian emperor