Awakening Plot Analysis

[Walker]

I've been thinking of doing this for a while, as I greatly enjoyed the Awakening plot. Anyway...

Awakening Plot Holes Explained: As an avid reader of epic fantasy, I noticed that there are a lot of players that missed very subtle nudges within the Awakening storyline which clears up 90% of the ‘so-called’ plotholes. I shall endeavor to explain away all the plotholes and challenges. I do ask that anyone reading this take an open mind, and realize that we are descending into a realm of fantasy. If you have any questions about things I didn't address, ask away, please. If you have any objections, raise them logically.

Also, F!Robin is future Robin, not female Robin. Just clarifying.

F!Robin and the Awakening Rite: (or "Why does Future Robin wait to Awaken as Grima?")

So, F!Robin doesn’t need the Awakening ritual to emerge as Grima. This is obvious, as Validar has a fake Fire Emblem, yes F!Robin still turns into Grima. The reason F!Robin waits until now is twofold. One, the sacrifice. In order to obtain his full power, F!Robin mentions that he will claim the sacrifice laid on the Dragon’s Table, meaning that Grima requires the Dragon’s Table ritual to acquire full strength. This could only be done when the populace had converted to the Grimleal. The main reason is as follows: Grima wanted Robin to undergo the ritual. In other words, Grima thought that destiny couldn’t be changed and there was no way for Robin to avoid the Awakening process. Thus, he delayed it. After all, why shouldn’t he delay it? Grima didn’t believe in undoing destiny, so in his arrogance he decided to let the events unfold as they did in the future.

Yes, Grima is too arrogant. This is hubris, and it is a common character flaw in many villains.

Carrion Isle: (or "This chapter had a point ... right?")

Validar sends assassins after the Shepherds on Carrion Isle. Durig your first play through of the game, your response is “Ho-hum. Evil dark lord is playing creepy mind games and trying to kill me.” The second play through, your response is “Hey, wait a minute. Validar wants us to beat Valm! Why is he trying to kill us?” Simple. Because if he didn’t, Robin would’ve suspected something. Think back to your first play through. You thought that Plegia was giving you stuff because they had too, having lost a war. This way they get an assassination attempt in, plus creepy mind games. Only in your second play through, do you realize that Validar wants to give you all the warships. The reason Validar tried to assassinate you was because he wanted to look suspicious, so you wouldn’t figure out his true motive.

The assassin at the end of the chapter? I’d bet that’s the same assassin that Lucina killed in Chapter 6! Validar is attempting to set history right by wounding the prince with the correct assassin.

I’m not sure why F!Robin revealed himself – yet.

Plot holes that still need addressing are:

How did Gangrel, Walhart, Emmeryn and Aversa survive? (Either Naga revived them to help Chrom (in Emmeryn's case) or they were just injured to the point of unconsciousness like Basillio and as such were thought to be dead (in the cases of Gangrel, Walhart and Aversa))

The survivors: Reaching 0HP isn't a guaranteed death. Frederick, Virion, Lissa, and most first-gen mothers can do it, as well as Basilio. So, here's my (fanon) take on how they all survived:

Emmeryn has the most plausible explanation, she survived the fall. Frederick mentions there were rumors of no corpse, and the Shephereds were on the run. It's plausible.

Gangrel isn't so bad, he's a coward, and one might be easily lead to believe that he faked his own death when he saw he was losing.

Walhart - well, he's Walhart. Yeah, his surviving makes little to no sense, especially since he's not the type to roll over and die, but it's believable that he shrugged off mortal wounds.

Aversa: Well...

Aversa: The same way Validar survived. Thanks Grima.

Perhaps Grima felt like a bit of psychological torture at Aversa's expense, revealing the truth to her using the Wellspring of Truth. I believe Medeus does a similar thing to Lady Eremiah in FE12.

Edited August 24, 2016 by StWalker

[DragonFlames]

I've been thinking of doing this for a while, as I greatly enjoyed the Awakening plot. Anyway...

Awakening Plot Holes Explained: As an avid reader of epic fantasy, I noticed that there are a lot of players that missed very subtle nudges within the Awakening storyline which clears up 90% of the ‘so-called’ plotholes. I shall endeavor to explain away all the plotholes and challenges. I do ask that anyone reading this take an open mind, and realize that we are descending into a realm of fantasy. If you have any questions about things I didn't address, ask away, please. If you have any objections, raise them logically.

Also, F!Robin is future Robin, not female Robin. Just clarifying.

F!Robin and the Awakening Rite: (or "Why does Future Robin wait to Awaken as Grima?")

So, F!Robin doesn’t need the Awakening ritual to emerge as Grima. This is obvious, as Validar has a fake Fire Emblem, yes F!Robin still turns into Grima. The reason F!Robin waits until now is twofold. One, the sacrifice. In order to obtain his full power, F!Robin mentions that he will claim the sacrifice laid on the Dragon’s Table, meaning that Grima requires the Dragon’s Table ritual to acquire full strength. This could only be done when the populace had converted to the Grimleal. The main reason is as follows: Grima wanted Robin to undergo the ritual. In other words, Grima thought that destiny couldn’t be changed and there was no way for Robin to avoid the Awakening process. Thus, he delayed it. After all, why shouldn’t he delay it? Grima didn’t believe in undoing destiny, so in his arrogance he decided to let the events unfold as they did in the future.

Yes, Grima is too arrogant. This is hubris, and it is a common character flaw in many villains.

Carrion Isle: (or "This chapter had a point ... right?")

Validar sends assassins after the Shepherds on Carrion Isle. Durig your first play through of the game, your response is “Ho-hum. Evil dark lord is playing creepy mind games and trying to kill me.” The second play through, your response is “Hey, wait a minute. Validar wants us to beat Valm! Why is he trying to kill us?” Simple. Because if he didn’t, Robin would’ve suspected something. Think back to your first play through. You thought that Plegia was giving you stuff because they had too, having lost a war. This way they get an assassination attempt in, plus creepy mind games. Only in your second play through, do you realize that Validar wants to give you all the warships. The reason Validar tried to assassinate you was because he wanted to look suspicious, so you wouldn’t figure out his true motive.

The assassin at the end of the chapter? I’d bet that’s the same assassin that Lucina killed in Chapter 6! Validar is attempting to set history right by wounding the prince with the correct assassin.

I’m not sure why F!Robin revealed himself – yet.

Any questions?

First off, I wanted to say: Thank you for doing this. I, too, like to read and write fantasy, so reading between the lines is a common thing for me. I couldn't word it as well as you did, though, since my first language isn't English.

If I may add something:

The reason why F!Robin revealed himself was so that current Robin, whom Grima (F!Robin) knew had lost his memories, would get an idea of what was in store for him, an in-universe foreshadowing, if you will. A second reason, I believe, was so that Grima (F!Robin) could determine whether or not current Robin was ready for the ritual at the Dragon's Table, hence his cryptic lines during his introduction.

Plot holes that still need addressing are (I think):

How did Gangrel, Walhart, Emmeryn and Aversa survive? (Either Naga revived them to help Chrom (in Emmeryn's case) or they were just injured to the point of unconsciousness like Basillio and as such were thought to be dead (in the cases of Gangrel, Walhart and Aversa))

How are there two Morgans in The Future Past? (F!Robin (Grima) captured one of them while they traveled through dimensions, while the other is the one from his own world)

[Walker]

Plot holes that still need addressing are (I think):

How did Gangrel, Walhart, Emmeryn and Aversa survive? (Either Naga revived them to help Chrom (in Emmeryn's case) or they were just injured to the point of unconsciousness like Basillio and as such were thought to be dead (in the cases of Gangrel, Walhart and Aversa))

How are there two Morgans in The Future Past? (F!Robin (Grima) captured one of them while they traveled through dimensions, while the other is the one from his own world)

I haven't played DLC (gasp!), so I can't really answer you're Future Past question about the two Morgans. I don't think Morgan is cannon from Future Past, although I heard a conversation in the Hot Springs DLC implies it.

The survivors: Reaching 0HP isn't a guaranteed death. Frederick, Virion, Lissa, and most first-gen mothers can do it, as well as Basilio. So, here's my (fanon) take on how they all survived:

Emmeryn has the most plausible explanation, she survived the fall. Frederick mentions there were rumors of no corpse, and the Shephereds were on the run. It's plausible.

Gangrel isn't so bad, he's a coward, and one might be easily lead to believe that he faked his own death when he saw he was losing.

Walhart - well, he's Walhart. Yeah, his surviving makes little to no sense, especially since he's not the type to roll over and die, but it's believable that he shrugged off mortal wounds.

Aversa: I guess she survived because of black magic? I don't have a good explanation for her surviving, sorry. It's pretty clear from her death quote in Ch. 25 that she wants to die. Once again, you can claimed "recovered from mortal wounds miraculously", but I don't know... It's also unclear how she learned of the Wellspring of Truth, though I suppose you can use Naga as an answer to both questions.

Thanks for the support!

[Thunderstar]

F!Robin and the Awakening Rite: (or "Why does Future Robin wait to Awaken as Grima?")

So, F!Robin doesn’t need the Awakening ritual to emerge as Grima. This is obvious, as Validar has a fake Fire Emblem, yes F!Robin still turns into Grima. The reason F!Robin waits until now is twofold. One, the sacrifice. In order to obtain his full power, F!Robin mentions that he will claim the sacrifice laid on the Dragon’s Table, meaning that Grima requires the Dragon’s Table ritual to acquire full strength. This could only be done when the populace had converted to the Grimleal. The main reason is as follows: Grima wanted Robin to undergo the ritual. In other words, Grima thought that destiny couldn’t be changed and there was no way for Robin to avoid the Awakening process. Thus, he delayed it. After all, why shouldn’t he delay it? Grima didn’t believe in undoing destiny, so in his arrogance he decided to let the events unfold as they did in the future.

Yes, Grima is too arrogant. This is hubris, and it is a common character flaw in many villains.

I agree with you on this. I believe that the main reason why he wanted to sacrifice Robin was because he could obtain his true strength back. It is also possible that he had other plans too.

In FE1/FE3/FE11/FE12, we learnt that Naga used the Shield of Seals/Fire Emblem in the Dragon Table to seal Earth Dragons. After the gemstones in the FE were removed, the seal over the Earth Dragons was weakened.

We know that the FE was used again in FE3/FE13 when Marth and his army were fighting in the Dragon Table against Medeus and the other dragons to seal Earth Dragons once again. We also know that when Awakening starts, 4 gemstones were not in the FE anymore, so the seal could be once again weakened.

What if Grima wanted to free his dragon friends to bring more chaos to the world? The more, the merrier! We also don't know why Grima hated humans and Naga after all so it could be one of the reasons.

Carrion Isle: (or "This chapter had a point ... right?")

Validar sends assassins after the Shepherds on Carrion Isle. Durig your first play through of the game, your response is “Ho-hum. Evil dark lord is playing creepy mind games and trying to kill me.” The second play through, your response is “Hey, wait a minute. Validar wants us to beat Valm! Why is he trying to kill us?” Simple. Because if he didn’t, Robin would’ve suspected something. Think back to your first play through. You thought that Plegia was giving you stuff because they had too, having lost a war. This way they get an assassination attempt in, plus creepy mind games. Only in your second play through, do you realize that Validar wants to give you all the warships. The reason Validar tried to assassinate you was because he wanted to look suspicious, so you wouldn’t figure out his true motive.

The assassin at the end of the chapter? I’d bet that’s the same assassin that Lucina killed in Chapter 6! Validar is attempting to set history right by wounding the prince with the correct assassin.

I’m not sure why F!Robin revealed himself – yet.

Not sure about this one.

We don't really know what were the differences between the original and the new timelines except that the Plegia War was longer, Emmeryn dying earlier and the parents surviving. I don't really know how these scenes could have worked in the original timeline.

In the original timeline, Robin probably wouldn't have suspected something weird since him and Chrom probably never met him before.

After Validar "died", he seemed surprised. He thought it couldn't happen because it was his destiny. Then Grima came and revived him.

I doubt that Validar was killed during the assassination in the original timeline or else he wouldn't have been surprised when he died. When the original Shepherds went in Carrion Island, Grima wasn't revived at that time and Lucina couldn't be here for obvious reasons so there weren't Risens probably.

In my opinion, it means that these scenes are new events which didn't happen in the futur. It doesn't really make sense for Validar's character to defy the destiny.

However, it could be possible that it was Grima's plan of course and him sending his troops. Why did he do that? Well, he seems to be quite sadistic, cruel and he seems to love playing with people minds. To me, F!Robin appears in front of Robin because he wanted to mess with poor Robin's head and confuse Robin and Chrom for the fun. He doesn't really need to appear in front of him to realize or not if his heart is ready or not. After all, he tried to control before the game happens. Validar tried that too at the beginning of chapter 13 and later on when he stole the FE and used this to try to kill Chrom. Not sure who tried to control him in chapter 14 though I guess it could be Grima since Validar already did this recently and he had no reason to do this again.

He probably did that because he wanted to have fun and to test the army's strength in this timeline to see if the timelines are truly different or not. If he wanted to kill them, he would have summoned stronger Risens like the Deadlords or something. He also never did that before since he wasn't revived and it is the first time he time travelled so he probably want to do a few "experiments".

I haven't played DLC (gasp!), so I can't really answer you're Future Past question about the two Morgans. I don't think Morgan is cannon from Future Past, although I heard a conversation in the Hot Springs DLC implies it.

I think that Robin just got twins.

In the DLC, Morgan reveals to Inigo/Cynthia (depends of Morgan's gender) that they got 2 copies of the same book.

When male/female Robin talks to female/male Morgan, they gave Morgan a book. And after Robin left, Morgan said they already have that book since they gave them before they were possessed by Grima.

It's possible that in the original timeline, F!Robin got twins and gave them a strategy book, and after Morgan is recruited, Robin gave Morgan the same one. They are klutzs so they probably don't realize that until the DLC support.

So if they are twins, why don't we get the other one? What happened?

If female Morgan has a sibling, her sibling basically told them that she is maybe amnesiac because she wanted to forget something painful or a bad memory and it was maybe for the best.

What did her sibling mean by that?

If Chrom married Sumia and talks to Cynthia in her recruitment chapter, he said that Lucina "forgets" to tell them that she has a sister. It's more likely that she didn't wanted to tell them that she has a sibling because if Cynthia died, Chrom and Sumia would probably be sad to have lost one of their child.

If we recruit female Morgan's sibling before her, they don't talk about Morgan to their parents (since Robin is surprised when he recruits her), like Lucina probably for the same reasons. So it's possible that Morgan got a twin and her other sibling doesn't want to say it for not making their family sad. And of course Morgan will never know that, even if Robin marries a character who doesn't have an another kid since she's amnesiac.

In the future past, the Morgans are the only children who work for Grima. When Morgan's sibling was talking about a "bad memory", they were probably referencing this.

We know that Grima did something when Naga was trying to send Lucina and the other kids in the past. Maybe he sent one of the Morgans in the portal. We know that he can do this after all some Risens can travel in the past, they appeared because of portals in chapter 1 with Lucina. The children were not sent in the same place (and not at the same time for Laurent) because of this.

Naga probably tried to make sure that humanity's only hope would not be killed by that Morgan and the Risens so maybe she did something which cause them to be send in different locations.

It's possible that it is also why Morgan is amnesiac. I would say what happened to Morgan is pretty much what happens to the main protagonist of the second Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and

later on ironically to Darkrai.

The other Morgan is maybe dead, killed by Lucina's group or Grima or Naga. Or he is still in the future all alone doing something inbefore main villain in a FE13's sequel.

How did Gangrel, Walhart, Emmeryn and Aversa survive? (Either Naga revived them to help Chrom (in Emmeryn's case) or they were just injured to the point of unconsciousness like Basillio and as such were thought to be dead (in the cases of Gangrel, Walhart and Aversa))

Kinda hard to defend this but I will try.

Emmeryn: Miracle. Also she's apparently the most resilient person in the army.

Gangrel: Pretty much what StWalker said.

Walhart: He already survived once so it's possible he could survive once more. He also controlled the Risens in his recruitment chapter so maybe Grima revived him and tried to possess him to have a new puppet but failed because of his strong will like Robin.

Aversa: The same way Validar survived. Thanks Grima.

I have a few questions concerning the Grimleal and the Deadlords.

I don't understand why the Grimleal could use the Deadlords. I haven't played FE4 and FE5 yet but I know that they were created by the Lopto Sect.

Did they used the same dark magic? Are the Grimleal and the Lopto Sect the same? Why did a few of FE13's Deadlords have Judgral's divine weapons? Are Loptyr and Grima related or the same dragon? They blood-bonded with humans after all.

Is Morgan the main villain in the next FE game?

Edited August 23, 2016 by Thunderstar

[Moblin Major General]

I have a few questions concerning the Grimleal and the Deadlords.

I don't understand why the Grimleal could use the Deadlords. I haven't played FE4 and FE5 yet but I know that they were created by the Lopto Sect.

Did they used the same dark magic? Are the Grimleal and the Lopto Sect the same? Why did a few of FE13's Deadlords have Judgral's divine weapons? Are Loptyr and Grima related or the same dragon? They blood-bonded with humans after all.

The Deadlords are usually the souls of strong warriors. Except that unlike in Genealogy/Thracia, they are bonded to Risen, not dead people. Also, I headcanon that Goetia is the Loptyr tome wielded by someone who doesn't have Loptyr Holy Blood, and slowly corrupts it's user.

[Walker]

I think that Robin just got twins.

So if they are twins, why don't we get the other one? What happened?

*cough* Well, I have a theory ... which I wasn't going to post, but you asked...

I don't believe in recursive time travel, that is to say, the Grandfather paradox is not actually a paradox. Any alterations done to the past do affect the future, just not the one you're from, and you can't return to the one you're from. In other words, Back to the Future got it wrong. Moving on ...

It's evident that the generation that Lucina is from do not actually have the corresponding parents. The proof is easy enough - Female Robin isn't S-ranked to Chrom in the prelude, and Lucina has been born by then. Essentially, what I think is that the children were ... altered ... during their travel back to have them match what they should become in the future they set out to make. Robin does not S-rank in the original timeline, which leads me to believe that Morgan is actually a pure construct of the time stream, formed by the memories and wishes of the rest of the children when they traveled back. Morgan's gender is opposite, as kind of a yin to Robin's yang as it were.

..But that's just my wishful thinking.

Edited August 24, 2016 by StWalker

[shadowofchaos]

That seems to overly complicate the already complicated concept of time traveling in the first place.

That seems like a pretty out there rule for it to follow.

I doubt the writers even thought that far about it.

The superior theory is obviously RufuRufu.

Edited August 24, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[DragonFlames]

I haven't played DLC (gasp!), so I can't really answer you're Future Past question about the two Morgans. I don't think Morgan is cannon from Future Past, although I heard a conversation in the Hot Springs DLC implies it.

The survivors: Reaching 0HP isn't a guaranteed death. Frederick, Virion, Lissa, and most first-gen mothers can do it, as well as Basilio. So, here's my (fanon) take on how they all survived:

Emmeryn has the most plausible explanation, she survived the fall. Frederick mentions there were rumors of no corpse, and the Shephereds were on the run. It's plausible.

Gangrel isn't so bad, he's a coward, and one might be easily lead to believe that he faked his own death when he saw he was losing.

Walhart - well, he's Walhart. Yeah, his surviving makes little to no sense, especially since he's not the type to roll over and die, but it's believable that he shrugged off mortal wounds.

Aversa: I guess she survived because of black magic? I don't have a good explanation for her surviving, sorry. It's pretty clear from her death quote in Ch. 25 that she wants to die. Once again, you can claimed "recovered from mortal wounds miraculously", but I don't know... It's also unclear how she learned of the Wellspring of Truth, though I suppose you can use Naga as an answer to both questions.

Thanks for the support!

No problem, friend!

I like your explanations, especially the one on Gangrel seems believable.

With Emmeryn, I guess the old rule 'They are only dead if they are CONFIRMED dead on screen' still applies.

Not sure about this one.

We don't really know what were the differences between the original and the new timelines except that the Plegia War was longer, Emmeryn dying earlier and the parents surviving. I don't really know how these scenes could have worked in the original timeline.

In the original timeline, Robin probably wouldn't have suspected something weird since him and Chrom probably never met him before.

After Validar "died", he seemed surprised. He thought it couldn't happen because it was his destiny. Then Grima came and revived him.

I doubt that Validar was killed during the assassination in the original timeline or else he wouldn't have been surprised when he died. When the original Shepherds went in Carrion Island, Grima wasn't revived at that time and Lucina couldn't be here for obvious reasons so there weren't Risens probably.

In my opinion, it means that these scenes are new events which didn't happen in the futur. It doesn't really make sense for Validar's character to defy the destiny.

However, it could be possible that it was Grima's plan of course and him sending his troops. Why did he do that? Well, he seems to be quite sadistic, cruel and he seems to love playing with people minds. To me, F!Robin appears in front of Robin because he wanted to mess with poor Robin's head and confuse Robin and Chrom for the fun. He doesn't really need to appear in front of him to realize or not if his heart is ready or not. After all, he tried to control before the game happens. Validar tried that too at the beginning of chapter 13 and later on when he stole the FE and used this to try to kill Chrom. Not sure who tried to control him in chapter 14 though I guess it could be Grima since Validar already did this recently and he had no reason to do this again.

He probably did that because he wanted to have fun and to test the army's strength in this timeline to see if the timelines are truly different or not. If he wanted to kill them, he would have summoned stronger Risens like the Deadlords or something. He also never did that before since he wasn't revived and it is the first time he time travelled so he probably want to do a few "experiments".

I think that Robin just got twins.

In the DLC, Morgan reveals to Inigo/Cynthia (depends of Morgan's gender) that they got 2 copies of the same book.

When male/female Robin talks to female/male Morgan, they gave Morgan a book. And after Robin left, Morgan said they already have that book since they gave them before they were possessed by Grima.

It's possible that in the original timeline, F!Robin got twins and gave them a strategy book, and after Morgan is recruited, Robin gave Morgan the same one. They are klutzs so they probably don't realize that until the DLC support.

So if they are twins, why don't we get the other one? What happened?

If female Morgan has a sibling, her sibling basically told them that she is maybe amnesiac because she wanted to forget something painful or a bad memory and it was maybe for the best.

What did her sibling mean by that?

If Chrom married Sumia and talks to Cynthia in her recruitment chapter, he said that Lucina "forgets" to tell them that she has a sister. It's more likely that she didn't wanted to tell them that she has a sibling because if Cynthia died, Chrom and Sumia would probably be sad to have lost one of their child.

If we recruit female Morgan's sibling before her, they don't talk about Morgan to their parents (since Robin is surprised when he recruits her), like Lucina probably for the same reasons. So it's possible that Morgan got a twin and her other sibling doesn't want to say it for not making their family sad. And of course Morgan will never know that, even if Robin marries a character who doesn't have an another kid since she's amnesiac.

In the future past, the Morgans are the only children who work for Grima. When Morgan's sibling was talking about a "bad memory", they were probably referencing this.

We know that Grima did something when Naga was trying to send Lucina and the other kids in the past. Maybe he sent one of the Morgans in the portal. We know that he can do this after all some Risens can travel in the past, they appeared because of portals in chapter 1 with Lucina. The children were not sent in the same place (and not at the same time for Laurent) because of this.

Naga probably tried to make sure that humanity's only hope would not be killed by that Morgan and the Risens so maybe she did something which cause them to be send in different locations.

It's possible that it is also why Morgan is amnesiac. I would say what happened to Morgan is pretty much what happens to the main protagonist of the second Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and

later on ironically to Darkrai.

The other Morgan is maybe dead, killed by Lucina's group or Grima or Naga. Or he is still in the future all alone doing something inbefore main villain in a FE13's sequel.

Kinda hard to defend this but I will try.

Emmeryn: Miracle. Also she's apparently the most resilient person in the army.

Gangrel: Pretty much what StWalker said.

Walhart: He already survived once so it's possible he could survive once more. He also controlled the Risens in his recruitment chapter so maybe Grima revived him and tried to possess him to have a new puppet but failed because of his strong will like Robin.

Aversa: The same way Validar survived. Thanks Grima.

Your take on the sibling thing intrigues me. I think I'm on board with this one.

*cough* Well, I have a theory ... which I wasn't going to post, but you asked...

I don't believe in recursive time travel, that is to say, the Grandfather paradox is not actually a paradox. Any alterations done to the past do affect the future, just not the one you're from, and you can't return to the one you're from. In other words, Back to the Future got it wrong. Moving on ...

It's evident that the generation that Lucina is from do not actually have the corresponding parents. The proof is easy enough - Female Robin isn't S-ranked to Chrom in the prelude, and Lucina has been born by then. Essentially, what I think is that the children were ... altered ... during their travel back to have them match what they should become in the future they set out to make. Robin does not S-rank in the original timeline, which leads me to believe that Morgan is actually a pure construct of the time stream, formed by the memories and wishes of the rest of the children when they traveled back. Morgan's gender is opposite, as kind of a yin to Robin's yang as it were.

..But that's just my wishful thinking.

That seems to overly complicate the already complicated concept of time traveling in the first place.

That seems like a pretty out there rule for it to follow.

I doubt the writers even thought that far about it.

The superior theory is obviously RufuRufu.

Absolutely agreed

I think we can "blame" either Hawking's String Theory or the Multiverse Theory for this one. Each decision creates a new timeline and thus a new future. There is no single future, hence why the children didn't vanish from existence upon Grima's defeat, the possibility of Robin marrying a child character and Morgan still existing in The Future Past where Grima!Robin obviously couldn't have a kid with one of the children (else they'd have a lot of explaining to do at IntSys.)

I also doubt the writers put THAT much thought into the story, but hey, theorizing about it is still fun, isn't it?

[shadowofchaos]

From what I remember, in one of the sets of "rules" that is associated with time travel fiction, any miniscule change can impact the world.

As in the child might not have the same gene combos.

Hell, saving Chrom the way she did dropping out of the sky could have made it so he gets a son from the simple change of timing. I mean, there's like millions of others that could have made it to the egg.

Hell, he could still have a daughter but looks completely different and named Eponine for all we know.

[DragonFlames]

From what I remember, in one of the sets of "rules" that is associated with time travel fiction, any miniscule change can impact the world.

As in the child might not have the same gene combos.

Hell, saving Chrom the way she did dropping out of the sky could have made it so he gets a son from the simple change of timing. I mean, there's like millions of others that could have made it to the egg.

Hell, he could still have a daughter but looks completely different and named Eponine for all we know.

Are you, perhaps, referring to the Butterfly Effect?

[Emperor Petitt]

From what I remember, in one of the sets of "rules" that is associated with time travel fiction, any miniscule change can impact the world.

As in the child might not have the same gene combos.

Hell, saving Chrom the way she did dropping out of the sky could have made it so he gets a son from the simple change of timing. I mean, there's like millions of others that could have made it to the egg.

Hell, he could still have a daughter but looks completely different and named Eponine for all we know.

That is a theory concerning time travel, however it is far from the only theory. Unfortunately since there is no real life example anything concerning time travel is a shot into the dark.

[Millyna]

About Wallhart ect. - I just cannot consider it as canon. But your ideas are nice~ :)

In the original time line (the time of Lucina & co), I headcanon that Robin had been studying tactics after his mother escaped with him/her as child because his mother had told him/her about Grima. S/he paired up with Chrom (diffrent, however) but ended up with becomming Grima.

[Seafarer]

Since this thread seems to have gone from analysis to sharing possibilities, I may as well throw my headcanon into the mix.

On the SpotPass characters:

I'll start with what we know, shall I? Firstly, Walhart didn't survive C20. He admits in his supports that his heart isn't beating anymore. Secondly, Emmeryn fell at least 50 metres onto stone, in enemy territory (so nobody's likely to be inclined to go to her aid), in a land with medieval technology. She's toast. (And she doesn't have the Miracle skill. :-p)

I agree that Gangrel was probably capable of playing dead well enough to fool Chrom and co. Aversa, on the other hand, they probably didn't even bother checking. They had bigger fish (dragons) to fry at that point. Those guys get to use the "but 0HP doesn't mean death" excuse.

I like to think, though, that Emmeryn and Walhart are subtle references to Genealogy. A dead guy coming back not quite right? Who does that sound like? (*cough*Lewyn*cough*) Yeah, so I think that Walhart was animated by some divine spirit, possibly Duma.

As for Emmeryn, what's the only Jugdrali Holy Weapon that you can't get in Awakening?

Valkyria. The resurrection staff.

The brain damage is explained by either the mangled condition of her body (Valkyria has undisclosed limitations, remember) or by a lack of the correct holy blood on the part of whoever resurrected her.

On Morgan:

I think Morgan is twins. Grima brought one of them back with him from the future, leaving the other to crush the last of humanity and complete Grima's victory. I'm not entirely certain where the amnesia came from, though.

I also have a logical string from the assumption that Morgan comes from the same future as the other kids that points to canon!Robin being male and marrying Anna, but that also relies on the assumption that Grima wouldn't want to carry the Morgans to term after his embodiment in Robin. I think that's a reasonable assumption, but others may dispute it. *shrugs*

[Thunderstar]

The Deadlords are usually the souls of strong warriors. Except that unlike in Genealogy/Thracia, they are bonded to Risen, not dead people. Also, I headcanon that Goetia is the Loptyr tome wielded by someone who doesn't have Loptyr Holy Blood, and slowly corrupts it's user.

Oh ok I see thanks. But aren't Risen supposed to be dead people too? Is the difference just that Risens are mostly random dead people and not dead powerful warriors like the Deadlords?

*cough* Well, I have a theory ... which I wasn't going to post, but you asked...

I don't believe in recursive time travel, that is to say, the Grandfather paradox is not actually a paradox. Any alterations done to the past do affect the future, just not the one you're from, and you can't return to the one you're from. In other words, Back to the Future got it wrong. Moving on ...

It's evident that the generation that Lucina is from do not actually have the corresponding parents. The proof is easy enough - Female Robin isn't S-ranked to Chrom in the prelude, and Lucina has been born by then. Essentially, what I think is that the children were ... altered ... during their travel back to have them match what they should become in the future they set out to make. Robin does not S-rank in the original timeline, which leads me to believe that Morgan is actually a pure construct of the time stream, formed by the memories and wishes of the rest of the children when they traveled back. Morgan's gender is opposite, as kind of a yin to Robin's yang as it were.

..But that's just my wishful thinking.

I guess it could work too. Though I guess it would depend like DragonFlames, shadowofchaos and Emperor Petit said how the time travel is supposed to work especially in Awakening.

Sadly we will never know.

Since this thread seems to have gone from analysis to sharing possibilities, I may as well throw my headcanon into the mix.

On the SpotPass characters:

I'll start with what we know, shall I? Firstly, Walhart didn't survive C20. He admits in his supports that his heart isn't beating anymore. Secondly, Emmeryn fell at least 50 metres onto stone, in enemy territory (so nobody's likely to be inclined to go to her aid), in a land with medieval technology. She's toast. (And she doesn't have the Miracle skill. :-p)

I agree that Gangrel was probably capable of playing dead well enough to fool Chrom and co. Aversa, on the other hand, they probably didn't even bother checking. They had bigger fish (dragons) to fry at that point. Those guys get to use the "but 0HP doesn't mean death" excuse.

I like to think, though, that Emmeryn and Walhart are subtle references to Genealogy. A dead guy coming back not quite right? Who does that sound like? (*cough*Lewyn*cough*) Yeah, so I think that Walhart was animated by some divine spirit, possibly Duma.

As for Emmeryn, what's the only Jugdrali Holy Weapon that you can't get in Awakening?

Valkyria. The resurrection staff.

The brain damage is explained by either the mangled condition of her body (Valkyria has undisclosed limitations, remember) or by a lack of the correct holy blood on the part of whoever resurrected her.

On Morgan:

I think Morgan is twins. Grima brought one of them back with him from the future, leaving the other to crush the last of humanity and complete Grima's victory. I'm not entirely certain where the amnesia came from, though.

I also have a logical string from the assumption that Morgan comes from the same future as the other kids that points to canon!Robin being male and marrying Anna, but that also relies on the assumption that Grima wouldn't want to carry the Morgans to term after his embodiment in Robin. I think that's a reasonable assumption, but others may dispute it. *shrugs*

I agree with most of these theories especially the Morgan, Walhart and Gangrel ones.