Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over (Won the Lawsuit!)

[Daiya]

Where did you hear this?

Ah, that was a bad assumption on my part. When the host mentioned that hammers wouldn't be necessary on Day 1, I thought that he meant that there wouldn't be a hammer at all (On D1).

My illiteracy is showing

[Refa]

"All investigation results are guaranteed to be accurate" precludes standard millers from existing. Refa's and my post weren't confirmation that a miller could exist (at the time, they confirmed the complete opposite) so, not seeing where these confirmations were, I asked him to explain.

I asked Enigmar via role pm to clarify on the second rule, specifically on if it means that all investigation results are guaranteed to be accurate, and got yes as the answer.

Was talking about this. I specifically asked if millers could exist in the game considering the second rule and he said yes. Honestly misread your post so that's uh my bad.

[Green Poet]

##Vote: Arctic Fox

@Refa - I see, makes sense.

Toren, who do you think is scum? Thoughts on recent posts?

[Refa]

Refa

Rules state that no roles can mess with results.

If a miller -does- exist jn coersion with this rule, then it specifically means something else. If that's the case, then what does that rule imply? No redirection. What else could it imply? No fabrication maybe like tailor/lawyer?

Regardless, I think you are wrong and I think the rule specifically prevents a miller from existing, which means that i think kirsche is scum who slipped super hard. If I am wrong on kirsche then my second theory (mentioned above) is what i will believe.

Redirections aren't considered to mess with results if they're announced (e.g. I targeted X tonight and got a result saying I was redirected to Z) because your results are still accurate. Also, see this.

In this context, a roles such as Miller or Godfather do not count as tampering. Tampering here is considered to be when another player gets ahold of results and changes them to something else.

Not saying you could have known this when you made your initial post but well now you do. What do you think about this?

Fair enough if you thought kirsche scumslipped before (in retrospect, your previous post was implying that but I missed it) but I don't think you've put any effort into reconsidering whether or not that's the case as new information has popped up about it.

[Zkirsche]

Man you can tell how awful SF's meta is right now when people seriously consider miller as something that is tampering. Need more tailors and drug dealers imo, show you nerds what REAL misinformation is. The rule not applying to millers means that there's no roles like the ones I just mentioned, it's really not that hard. Heck it's modconfirmed lmao.

Why would the host bail out someone for not reading the rules if I was maf and I slipped? Not to mention this assumes that I'm the type to bitch about this until the mod caves to my will. I'd like to think I'm more reasonable than that, especially as I would be defo at fault and not necessarily doomed if I could convince people that miller isn't really a tampering role.

SB confirmed scum trying to lurk his way out of relevance imo, lynch here. Couple of town reads but not interested in explaining them. I swear Elie always has super dumb arguments but I can't remember if scum!Elie does this or if it's not telling of alignment.

[Zkirsche]

Hold up @GP: Did the mod actually tell you millers couldn't exist? In those words? That's basically bastard modding now.

I remember Elie being terrible at RVS so I'm going to overlook this for now but if you keep it up Elie that noose will have your name on it.

[Green Poet]

Not those exact words, no. But the response was a confirmation for scum!Kirsche in my mind, due to how I considered "guaranteed accurate investigation results" to mean "millers don't exist." It's probably just a difference in definitions as Via suggested earlier.

Could I have permission to quote just those two messages, the question and the answer, from my role PM? It'd probably clear this up more simply than I can with paraphrasing.

[solrocknroll]

Not those exact words, no. But the response was a confirmation for scum!Kirsche in my mind, due to how I considered "guaranteed accurate investigation results" to mean "millers don't exist." It's probably just a difference in definitions as Via suggested earlier.

Could I have permission to quote just those two messages, the question and the answer, from my role PM? It'd probably clear this up more simply than I can with paraphrasing.

Yes, you can quote it.

[Green Poet]

Quick question, could you please elaborate on the second rule? Are all investigation results guaranteed to be accurate?

Mechanics:

2. Investigation results will not be tampered with.

Yes. They will be accurate.

[Green Poet]

I also think Elie's just been skimming, since his reply to Refa didn't take into account the latest mod confirmation that miller/godfather effects don't count as tampering. But from what I can tell it isn't deliberate, so it's not something to vote someone over imo.

[Zkirsche]

I'd rather you didn't presume Elie's thought process before he explains it himself.

[Refa]

Inactives (Not counting RVS votes, confirmation posts, or fluff posts)

Jaybee (1 post), The Glass Beast (0 posts), Eurykins (0 posts), Artic Fox (0 posts), Toren (2 posts), Riptor (0 posts, not even a non content post), Polydeuces (0 posts, same as Riptor)

Day 1 isn't even over and I already want to sub out. -_-

[Eurykins]

Hooray for being stuck at work from 6:30am~11pm. Double shifts are fun like that.

Gonna take some time to read through this thread and get a post up in a bit.

[SB.]

I still want Proto to say why he thought kirsche was joking. It feels kind of like he just said that because he wanted to look good by being right and staying away from a potential rvs wagon.

That being said,

##Unvote

##Vote: kirsche

Fight me. This is exactly what scum kirsche does: calling things stupid in order to make people doubt themselves. The way he phrases his reads is also scummy as fuck because they're just statements like he already decided what he thinks rather than showing him trying to figure shit out.

[Refa]

How do you think they'd be phrased differently if he was trying to figure shit out?

[Daiya]

I still want Proto to say why he thought kirsche was joking. It feels kind of like he just said that because he wanted to look good by being right and staying away from a potential rvs wagon.

That being said,##Unvote

##Vote: kirsche

Fight me. This is exactly what scum kirsche does: calling things stupid in order to make people doubt themselves. The way he phrases his reads is also scummy as fuck because they're just statements like he already decided what he thinks rather than showing him trying to figure shit out.

I don't really get this part. Do you mean that he was right about Kirsche's claim being a joke? ^^

[solrocknroll]

Inactives (Not counting RVS votes, confirmation posts, or fluff posts)

Jaybee (1 post), The Glass Beast (0 posts), Eurykins (0 posts), Artic Fox (0 posts), Toren (2 posts), Riptor (0 posts, not even a non content post), Polydeuces (0 posts, same as Riptor)

Day 1 isn't even over and I already want to sub out. -_-

the glass beast isn't even playing actually, I don't quite know what that was about

[SB.]

How do you think they'd be phrased differently if he was trying to figure shit out?

Either through questioning or trying to get me wagoned so that I would actually be under real pressure.

[SB.]

I don't really get this part. Do you mean that he was right about Kirsche's claim being a joke? ^^

Yes. As scum he would've "known" based on the rules that it was a miller fakeclaim if kirsche is town. Alternatively it allows him to avoid wagoning him if they're buddies and gives him a way out.

I still don't know who Polydeuces is btw.

[Refa]

Either through questioning or trying to get me wagoned so that I would actually be under real pressure.

Okay, I'd sheep it then.

[Zkirsche]

calling things stupid in order to make people doubt themselves.

Yo chill the only time I did this was with Elie who has convinced themselves that despite the mod confirm the only way I can exist is if the rules are talking about redirects. Also you played in Criminal so you know I value misinformation.

I admit I haven't been asking people what they think of you but I had bigger fish to fry trying to convince people miller isn't tampering, especially considering my case on you is obv super weak. The last statement I made was meant to goad you out a bit (hey look at who's here) while being a semi-serious inactivity callout. I am determined not to let people flake after Bluedoom's game. Well, all being said this is a good point, and I thought something similar w.r.t Proto as his vote post makes it seem like he thinks he should be on me rather than wanting to be on me. If I was town why would I be fakeclaiming miller though?

##Vote: Elieson

Get back here please, I need an explanation of the thought process.

[Elieson]

ok now I can pay some more attention. I figured I'd found a scumslip and just rolled with it and things would sort themselves out while I was AFK moving Tyler in officially over the weekend.

And it's official, I completely missed the host's #34 which flat out calls me wrong

I also think Elie's just been skimming, since his reply to Refa didn't take into account the latest mod confirmation that miller/godfather effects don't count as tampering. But from what I can tell it isn't deliberate, so it's not something to vote someone over imo.

Yea that

##Unvote (Sad Kirsche)

This basically means that kirsche could be a miller because a miller could exist. I was under the assumption that if your RolePM said you were aligned with X, a scan suggesting that you're not X means that results are inaccurate aka tampered with by a role (since miller is a role if you want to be technical, even if it doesn't actually do anything on command to screw with results). I don't know why others didn't really think about it all that hard but GP asked about it in private so I'm glad that at least somebody hard-considered and acted on it.

I guess I'll buy it because there isn't much reason not to. Somebody just vig him to end the confusion ##PolicyVig

Redirections aren't considered to mess with results if they're announced (e.g. I targeted X tonight and got a result saying I was redirected to Z) because your results are still accurate.

This isn't clarified in DA RULES, so I'm going to assume the worst until proven otherwise.

Anyway

##Vote Refa

Since when do you need to vote for somebody to get an answer out of them? You flat out said you assumed my thought process, acknowledged it, but still maintained your vote. This isn't normal. Methinks your fixated on me, and while I can understand why, parking your vote on me feels too easy.

#eee#

Unvote (Sad Kirsche)

[Elieson]

I have no idea why this happened?

#eee#

Unvote (Sad Kirsche)

[Zkirsche]

Actually I reread Thousand names and I don't think your meta on me is even correct as some of my retorts that game include "this is laughable at best" and my personal favourite "lmao really?"

[Zkirsche]

Whoa Elie