Jedi Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) This is going off Shin's old idea http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54784&page=1, but we never got the most recent patch, and with all the tourneys of late, in terms of wacky results So lets see how the people of the Forest think, I set all the characters into this questionnaire of sorts, when we have alot of results I will post the data it spat back out at me. Should say that, customs are not thought of in this evaluation. The questionnaire is here Use this form to vote. Edited August 24, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Submitted my votes, but I have a feeling my opinions will prove to be very unpopular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex95 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I'd help with this, but I'd just choose B for everyone cause I don't believe in Tier Lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I'll look at it later. But all I know is that I main a character that'd is pretty much crap under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNexez Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Submitted it cause why not. Though I doubt my responses match up with the general opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Submitted it cause why not. Though I doubt my responses match up with the general opinion. Never know! It'll be interesting to see how all the votes get tallied up, theres some interesting trends and some that are pretty wacky and all over, its kinda fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Submitted my votes, but I have a feeling my opinions will prove to be very unpopular. Probably because they're wrong. I'd help with this, but I'd just choose B for everyone cause I don't believe in Tier Lists. Yeah, for me tier lists are like global warming. They're both overhyped, use pseudo science to justify their existence, and are 100% fictional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Probably because they're wrong. Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Yeah, for me tier lists are like global warming. They're both overhyped, use pseudo science to justify their existence, and are 100% fictional. Yeah, global warming isn't cool at all. I've submitted my opinions, I've already preemptively put Dedede in F tier to counterbalance Horace putting him in S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 If I only vote on like, 5 characters, will it skew the results, or is that fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex95 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Yeah, for me tier lists are like global warming. They're both overhyped, use pseudo science to justify their existence, and are 100% fictional. Exactly! I say it's the skill of the player rather the properties of the character that matters. If I only vote on like, 5 characters, will it skew the results, or is that fine? Every character is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Global Warming and tier lists are real Refa is just a troll Tier lists are inherently useless and fruitless. Ness is a good character but God help him against Rosalina - the tier list only says Rosalina is better than Ness but it doesn't reflect the match ups. Ultimately the matchups are more important and at equal skill level a tier list measures what character has better matchups against the rest of the cast (and also which character is used more at tourneys). A sufficiently skilled low tier player can crush a high tier player which is correct but when you have two people at equal skill what then? The properties matter a hell of a lot, almost as much as player skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Exactly! I say it's the skill of the player rather the properties of the character that matters. You must admit, some characters are easier to use to achieve great results compared to others. That's what identifies a chracter tier, usually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami922 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Submitted my votes. Edited August 23, 2016 by Tsunami922 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) I mean, even with taking the competitors skill levels into account, there are clearly some characters that are fundamentally worse than others. For example, I use Dorf, and no matter how good or not I may be with him, that doesn't suddenly make Dorf good in comparison to the other characters. He has flaws inherent to his design that make him objectively worse than most other characters. Being skilled with a lower tiered character doesn't magically make their flaws go away. Edited August 23, 2016 by Carmine Sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Well Fox is hard to get good results with since the character itself is so complex but it achieves a lot of results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Exactly! I say it's the skill of the player rather the properties of the character that matters. I disagree entirely, I actually believe that whoever can get the smash ball first wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Whoever gets Pink DK with random fighter first wins, clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex95 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 You must admit, some characters are easier to use to achieve great results compared to others. That's what identifies a chracter tier, usually Well, yes, some characters are certainly easier to use like Mario or Kirby. But even ones that are difficult to really get down or just outright "suck" can still win a match if you, the player, are trained well enough with the character. For example, most players would agree that Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff are pretty high on the tier list whereas Link and Ike are not. However, I have defeated those three with Link and Ike in some intense battles (though the "best-of-the-best" players still outdo me). I've even defeated Ness with Pikachu. ...Sure, I can't prove that here, but that was a great win for me! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguna Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Well, yes, some characters are certainly easier to use like Mario or Kirby. But even ones that are difficult to really get down or just outright "suck" can still win a match if you, the player, are trained well enough with the character. For example, most players would agree that Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff are pretty high on the tier list whereas Link and Ike are not. However, I have defeated those three with Link and Ike in some intense battles (though the "best-of-the-best" players still outdo me). I've even defeated Ness with Pikachu. ...Sure, I can't prove that here, but that was a great win for me! :) Sorry bro, but I need to clarify something here. While Captain Falcon is pretty consistently high on the tier list, Ness and Jigglypuff are not. In Smash 4, Jigglypuff is arguably the worst character in the game or at least is a very prime contender for it and Ike was pretty bad at launch but as it stands he's solid mid-tier among all the characters certainly higher than Puff or Ness. Also judging on For Glory experiences isn't good since the actual level of skill and dedication that needs to be measured come from tourneys like EVO where results and playstyles can be seen and calculated to see how viable matchups are. Edited August 23, 2016 by Raguna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Well, yes, some characters are certainly easier to use like Mario or Kirby. But even ones that are difficult to really get down or just outright "suck" can still win a match if you, the player, are trained well enough with the character. For example, most players would agree that Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff are pretty high on the tier list whereas Link and Ike are not. However, I have defeated those three with Link and Ike in some intense battles (though the "best-of-the-best" players still outdo me). I've even defeated Ness with Pikachu. ...Sure, I can't prove that here, but that was a great win for me! :) Link and Ike have tourney results to prove they can be used at a higher level (A Link got 9th at a Japanese tourney recently this isn't a common occurrence but it does happen), not as effectively as others but still. They just have alot of flaws compared to other characters, characters like Mario have little to no flaws, therefore they are "more effective". Edited August 24, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Well, yes, some characters are certainly easier to use like Mario or Kirby. But even ones that are difficult to really get down or just outright "suck" can still win a match if you, the player, are trained well enough with the character.Go look at tournament results and see how often Link and Ike win them or place Top 10. Yes, it's possible given enough skill and reads (since Ike is extremely read dependent), but it's not as probable as, say, a Diddy or Cloud winning a tournament. Tier lists are a measure of probability of a given character winning a tournament based on tourney results. It's not an objective measure of quality nor does it substitute a character analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 After the first 20 sets of votes, the Serenes list is looking something like this, (Keep voting those of you who haven't yet). Also my sorter (Elieson, divided the grades between points a bit differently than I would have, but here you go) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 After the first 20 sets of votes, the Serenes list is looking something like this, (Keep voting those of you who haven't yet). Also my sorter (Elieson, divided the grades between points a bit differently than I would have, but here you go) Yeah, like I said...my opinions are quite unpopular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 too many tiers smh There's not a lot of meaningful difference between like, B and C, or C and D, etc. imo Top/high tier looks almost good (missing like, villager/TL imo) but after that there's a lot of things I dislike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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