Regarding Lunatic's Fixed Growths

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

So, I've been grinding a bunch in my current Lunatic playthrough, and in doing so have had the opportunity to mess around with a few things that have engaged my curiosity. What information I've gathered on Lunatic Growths by browsing this forum and others is that these Growths are determined by a semi-random list generated when a character is recruited. However, I've come across few accounts of further detail and those I have found seem speculative at best. And so I thought I'd pose a few questions to see if anyone might have answers:

• In the case of children, are their modified growth rates considered by the list generator in any way?
• How does Aptitude affect fixed growths, especially on units that acquire it from the logbook?
• How do classes affect fixed growths? (I know that I leveled Soleil, did a soft reset, used a Heart Seal, and got the same growths again, but I don't remember the classes.)

And regarding some things I recall reading but do not know to have any veracity:

• Is there any kind of point system that works in conjunction with the generated list?
• Is list generation in some way affected by the Avatar's Boon/Bane?

Maybe no one knows, but if we can even confirm that no one knows we could save someone the crawl through many searches. If we do get any answers, I'll add them to this initial post.

[Emerson]

Since it's a removable Skill, I'd assume Aptitude is a fixed 10% increase.

Wait shoot how does that work? Maybe it adds a 10% chance to each one, then you also get the seed's stat increases?

Or maybe it rerolls it?

Edited August 29, 2016 by TrueEm

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

Since it's a removable Skill, I'd assume Aptitude is a fixed 10% increase.

Wait shoot how does that work? Maybe it adds a 10% chance to each one, then you also get the seed's stat increases?

Or maybe it rerolls it?

I'd say it'd be odd to reroll it in the expected way, at least, because that would mean you can effectively reset the growths by resetting, just like in other modes. ALTHOUGH I've actually thought that perhaps it rerolls AFTER the next level up after it's equipped, based on how I've seen some of my character's growths do things. (e.g. level 3 Ophelia equips Aptitude, levels to 4, has the list regenerated, keeps Aptitude equipped(?), and then gets increased stat growth at level 5)

I mean, anything about this is going to be difficult until we know the exact nature of the list and its generation. If a character's growth rates are used in the list generation, Aptitude may be nerfed. I don't think that's the case, because I believe my characters' growths have been better since equipping it, but it could be coincidence.

Edited August 29, 2016 by NoDoubtNoHarm

[Emerson]

Eh, I dunno enough about how it works to make a good assumption. I'm only just now doing my first Lunatic playthrough of BR.

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

Eh, I dunno enough about how it works to make a good assumption. I'm only just now doing my first Lunatic playthrough of BR.

Likewise, this is my first Lunatic. However, I didn't know until ch 15 or 16 that there were fixed growths, so when I saw that in action I immediately had to investigate.

[Emerson]

Ah. I've known they were seeded growths for a long time actually. I just never felt comfortable with Lunatic until now.

Honestly, the only real difference between rng and seeded growths is that seeded can allow you to fail a chapter and still get that great level up a character got. Besides that, it's still a -% growth, just pre-defined.

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

I wrote something off topic because I was tired. Ignore or delete these two sentences.

Edited August 29, 2016 by NoDoubtNoHarm

[Emerson]

It's funny, then, that I'd read so many comments where people have strong opinions about them. If anything, I dislike the fixed growths because, by my observation so far, nothing can be done to repair a bad growth.

Yeah. If you get stuck with a bad seed, that unit is complete garbage. That's about the only complaint I've seen with seeded growths, and the only one I can really think of.

[sirmola]

From what i understand, The way that level up work in almost every FE is that the game generates a uniform random number from 0 to 100 for each stat. This number is then compared against the total growth rate in that stat (represented from 0 to 100). If it is less, you gain a point in the stat, and if it is greater, you do not. Most FE games (including Fates normal and hard mode) roll the random numbers when you level up. However, Fates rolls all random numbers for all characters upon starting a new lunatic game, and saves them in your save file. The mathematics work out exactly the same, except that you can't save scum. Limited manipulation of level ups is still possible by changing classes, but the growth differences are often so low that this is hard to abuse (although i have successfully done on one or two occasions). THe effect of aptitude to all this is that it adds 10 to your total growth rates. It does not reroll anything.

I should note that the Game does NOT reroll the random numbers upon starting branch of fate. It simply calculates your main character's new level ups by using his previous level and random number rolls, in combination with the total growth rates given by your boon and bane. It's entirely possible to decide whether to use a character when starting at branch of fate based on their level ups in a previous save file.

[Emerson]

From what i understand, The way that level up work in almost every FE is that the game generates a uniform random number from 0 to 100 for each stat. This number is then compared against the total growth rate in that stat (represented from 0 to 100). If it is less, you gain a point in the stat, and if it is greater, you do not. Most FE games (including Fates normal and hard mode) roll the random numbers when you level up. However, Fates rolls all random numbers for all characters upon starting a new lunatic game, and saves them in your save file. The mathematics work out exactly the same, except that you can't save scum. Limited manipulation of level ups is still possible by changing classes, but the growth differences are often so low that this is hard to abuse (although i have successfully done on one or two occasions). THe effect of aptitude to all this is that it adds 10 to your total growth rates. It does not reroll anything.

I should note that the Game does NOT reroll the random numbers upon starting branch of fate. It simply calculates your main character's new level ups by using his previous level and random number rolls, in combination with the total growth rates given by your boon and bane. It's entirely possible to decide whether to use a character when starting at branch of fate based on their level ups in a previous save file.

I believe Fates rolls the level-ups for each unit when you receive them. For example, I could get Peri in Ch 12, and if she gets bad levels in chapter, I can restart the chapter, and she gets a new seed.

That's why doing Branch of Fate wouldn't reroll Corrin, Felicia/Jakob, Gunter, Rinkah, BR/Rev!Kaze, Azura, and Sakura. Not sure about about Conquest Kaze, as he is a different level and may be classified as a "different unit" if you understand what I'm saying.

Oh I forgot CQ!Gunter is different too. He may have a new seed in the same way as Kaze.

I wanna test this out now...

Edited August 29, 2016 by TrueEm

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

However, Fates rolls all random numbers for all characters upon starting a new lunatic game, and saves them in your save file. The mathematics work out exactly the same, except that you can't save scum.

I presume it rolls for kids when the paralogue becomes available, then?

Limited manipulation of level ups is still possible by changing classes, but the growth differences are often so low that this is hard to abuse (although i have successfully done on one or two occasions).

I would be very curious to know how you did do that on one or two occasions.

Furthermore, (and this is just my speculation) are growth rates per class rolled at the start of Lunatic?

THe effect of aptitude to all this is that it adds 10 to your total growth rates. It does not reroll anything.

So if the numbers aren't rerolled, are the growth rates not taken into account? Or does the roll at child generation somehow generate numbers for if aptitude is on the kid? Or does it perhaps do it by adding the 10% to the class growth rates? Edited August 29, 2016 by NoDoubtNoHarm

[Emerson]

I presume it rolls for kids when the paralogue becomes available, then?

I would be very curious to know how you did do that on one or two occasions.

Furthermore, (and this is just my speculation) are growth rates per class rolled at the start of Lunatic?

So if the numbers aren't rerolled, are the growth rates not taken into account? Or does the roll at child generation somehow generate numbers for if aptitude is on the kid? Or does it perhaps do it by adding the 10% to the class growth rates?

-Answered the first one earlier. They get rolled when they get recruited.

-Again, answered.

-I don't think that one's confirmed. I kinda want to check it out now.

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

Furthermore, (and this is just my speculation) are growth rates per class rolled at the start of Lunatic?

-Again, answered.

I don't think so; if you are right about the rolling being at recruitment, instead of sirmola's statement about being rolled at the start of the game, there is no indication of how class growths would be accounted for.

Do either of you, by any chance, have sources? That'd be awesome.

Edited August 29, 2016 by NoDoubtNoHarm

[GoXDS]

I presume it rolls for kids when the paralogue becomes available, then?

I would be very curious to know how you did do that on one or two occasions.

Furthermore, (and this is just my speculation) are growth rates per class rolled at the start of Lunatic?

So if the numbers aren't rerolled, are the growth rates not taken into account? Or does the roll at child generation somehow generate numbers for if aptitude is on the kid? Or does it perhaps do it by adding the 10% to the class growth rates?

you're still not understanding what sirmola said. exact lvl ups are not rolled in Lunatic. the RNG numbers are rolled and these stay the same. for example, a unit's next 3 Lvl ups for Str, the game rolled 40, 30, 50. these do not get changed ever (unless you rerecruit by restarting the chapter).

when the unit lvls, the game then compares the RNG number to the unit's total growth. say it's 37.5% Personal and 0% Class. 1st lvl up, 37.5% is below 40, so no Str. 2nd Lvl up, it's above 30, so +1 Str. 3rd Lvl up, below 50 so no Str. say we reclassed before these 3 lvl ups. +10% Str from class. we now get a +1 Str from 1st and 2nd Lvls but not 3rd. say we added Aptitude for another +10%. 57.5% is above all 3, so the unit would've gained Str on all 3 lvls now

hence it's possible to somewhat manipulate but chances are small. the RNG number would've had to have been close to the unit's total growths anyways

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

you're still not understanding what sirmola said. exact lvl ups are not rolled in Lunatic. the RNG numbers are rolled and these stay the same. for example, a unit's next 3 Lvl ups for Str, the game rolled 40, 30, 50. these do not get changed ever (unless you rerecruit by restarting the chapter).

when the unit lvls, the game then compares the RNG number to the unit's total growth. say it's 37.5% Personal and 0% Class. 1st lvl up, 37.5% is below 40, so no Str. 2nd Lvl up, it's above 30, so +1 Str. 3rd Lvl up, below 50 so no Str. say we reclassed before these 3 lvl ups. +10% Str from class. we now get a +1 Str from 1st and 2nd Lvls but not 3rd. say we added Aptitude for another +10%. 57.5% is above all 3, so the unit would've gained Str on all 3 lvls now

hence it's possible to somewhat manipulate but chances are small. the RNG number would've had to have been close to the unit's total growths anyways

OH! Thanks! I get it now. Sorry. I'm getting pretty tired and should probably sleep. Sorry again.

[ruadath]

I should note that the Game does NOT reroll the random numbers upon starting branch of fate. It simply calculates your main character's new level ups by using his previous level and random number rolls, in combination with the total growth rates given by your boon and bane. It's entirely possible to decide whether to use a character when starting at branch of fate based on their level ups in a previous save file.

Just for clarification, I believe this is only true for the units you have gotten up until Branch of Fate, since new characters have there levels rolled on their join map. I might be wrong though, as I haven't tested this out.

Edited August 29, 2016 by ruadath

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

Just for clarification, I believe this is only true for the units you have gotten up until Branch of Fate

Out of pure curiosity: what if you go through the first 5 chapters on Lunatic as MCorrin, save after choosing a path, start from Branch of Fate as FCorrin, save after choosing a path, then start from Branch of Fate as MCorrin again? Will Felicia be the same?

Also, iirc, changing the sex of the Corrin makes you lose any items from the Servant in addition to making them lose all stat gains? I hope that's not the case, but...

[ruadath]

I haven't tested this at all, but the answer is probably dependent on whether or not Felicia rejoins the party later on at whatever stats you left her at or at a new level (I think it's level 13? I forget). If it's the former, her level ups should remain fixed, but if it's the latter then they should be rerolled.

[Emerson]

Just for clarification, I believe this is only true for the units you have gotten up until Branch of Fate, since new characters have there levels rolled on their join map. I might be wrong though, as I haven't tested this out.

Thanks for saying the same thing I already said.

Glad to have confirmation on this.

I haven't tested this at all, but the answer is probably dependent on whether or not Felicia rejoins the party later on at whatever stats you left her at or at a new level (I think it's level 13? I forget). If it's the former, her level ups should remain fixed, but if it's the latter then they should be rerolled.

I'm pretty sure the Branch of Fate would go from the M!MU file even after starting the F!MU BoF file, so Felicia should be the same if starting from the M!MU file again. If going from a M!MU file to a F!MU file, Felicia should be rerolled since she's a "Different unit", as she has different bases and is a higher level.

Also, iirc, changing the sex of the Corrin makes you lose any items from the Servant in addition to making them lose all stat gains? I hope that's not the case, but...

I know that going from a M!MU file to a F!MU file Jakob will start from Lv 1 with base stats, and vice-versa. I'd assume they lose their items as well, although what would they be holding? You only have them for 2 Chapters where you can't trade, and one where you don't lose them again.

[ruadath]

I'm pretty sure the Branch of Fate would go from the M!MU file even after starting the F!MU BoF file, so Felicia should be the same if starting from the M!MU file again. If going from a M!MU file to a F!MU file, Felicia should be rerolled since she's a "Different unit", as she has different bases and is a higher level.

Ah, OK, I misread the question. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

[NoDoubtNoHarm]

I'd assume they lose their items as well, although what would they be holding? You only have them for 2 Chapters where you can't trade, and one where you don't lose them again.

I know for a fact that I did trade items before the Branch of Fate (mostly to MU to make them most likely to remain extant). I suppose the main thing is be concerned about losing is that one Goddess Icon from the Visit tutorial.

[Emerson]

You don't get the ability to trade until after the Branch of Fate. You can't trade in 2-3, and Jakob/Felicia don't return until Ch 6, which is after the BoF.

[GoXDS]

You don't get the ability to trade until after the Branch of Fate. You can't trade in 2-3, and Jakob/Felicia don't return until Ch 6, which is after the BoF.

you get to trade in Ch4, when you're saving the Hoshidan siblings, where Kaze mentions Vulns

[Emerson]

you get to trade in Ch4, when you're saving the Hoshidan siblings, where Kaze mentions Vulns

Yes, I know. But you don't have Felicia/Jakob with you, therefore they cannot receive other items before the BoF.