What the Nintendo Switch may mean for Smash

[Anacybele]

Sakurai can put in 5 Kid Icarus characters for all I care. The guy has sacrificed so much of his own personal life just to try to make everyone that plays Smash Bros. happy, he deserves to be a bit biased with the series he worked on.

Of course, I'm not insulting him at all. He HAS sacrificed a lot to try making everyone happy, but like I said, it isn't possible to make everyone happy, so to lower his stress levels and such, he needs to stop trying to and only try to make a lot of people happy, not EVERYONE.

And he didn't just have a bit of bias, he had a LOT of bias here. A little bit is one thing, but there's a point where it just gets ridiculous, and imo, he reached that point.

Yeah guys, she'd only cut characters that she feels doesn't deserve a spot by her own arbitrary standards while characters she likes that falls under the same category would get some excuse to say. Sheesh.

People, ignore this, because it's once again twisting my words.

Luigi and Toon Link being iconic and important to their series and Nintendo isn't reason enough for them to stay? And I wish they were a little more unique themselves, truth be told! I've said many times over that imo, Toon Link should more resemble the Four Sword Links than TWW Link because he'd be more different from regular Link, and as for Luigi, it wouldn't hurt to change up some of his aerials and such a bit more.

And just because I think they should stay doesn't mean I think they should be cloney to any degree. Nobody deserves to be a clone if they could've potentially been unique or brought something more interesting/new to Smash.

Also, again, the people twisting my words are ignoring my statements about Dr. Mario, Roy, and Dark Pit, whom I like or actually love, yet think they should go because of being clones and having no potential to be more unique.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Anacybele

[Magical Glace]

Clones are easy additions. There's no reason to take out easy, last second additions that make fans of them happy.

(Though I personally think Dark Pit shouldn't have been a clone due to somewhat contradicting his character arc, they should have gone for Alph first. But still, he's there, he was easy to make, there's no good reason for him to be taken out.)

Complaining about clones just shows misunderstanding about how game design works.

[solrocknroll]

clones are wonderful

hopefully Alph gets to be a clone in this version actually

don't expect anything but Alph, Wolf, Inkling, Ice Climbers, Pichu, and Snake(?) though if you don't want to be disappointed. maybe Elma too

[shadowofchaos]

People, ignore this, because it's once again twisting my words.

Luigi and Toon Link being iconic and important to their series and Nintendo isn't reason enough for them to stay? And I wish they were a little more unique themselves, truth be told! I've said many times over that imo, Toon Link should more resemble the Four Sword Links than TWW Link because he'd be more different from regular Link, and as for Luigi, it wouldn't hurt to change up some of his aerials and such a bit more.

And just because I think they should stay doesn't mean I think they should be cloney to any degree. Nobody deserves to be a clone if they could've potentially been unique or brought something more interesting/new to Smash.

Also, again, the people twisting my words are ignoring my statements about Dr. Mario, Roy, and Dark Pit, whom I like or actually love, yet think they should go because of being clones and having no potential to be more unique.

You have absolutely no idea how to defend your position.

I hope you know what a logical fallacy is, because you just did it.

"Ignore this because I can't adequately defend my position with reasoning."

By outlining every point out for you with spacing, you were in a position to quote each point and respond. All you did was be hypocritical about the standards by which you define a clone to be cut.

You're playing the victim card again.

Edited October 22, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Comet]

if roy is a clone luigi is a clone. i guess we should cut him then.

[Jave]

It's always hilarious when people speak of clones as if they're this embarrassment to video games.

The second (or arguably third) most iconic Street Fighter character is actually a clone of the most iconic one.

[Refa]

Yeah, even I have to admit, Dan is definitely a clone of the most iconic fighting game character ever, Ryo Sakazaki.

[Sunwoo]

People, ignore this, because it's once again twisting my words

Hey, I am calling it as I see it. If what I said is not what you mean, it is on you to phrase your words better.

[Jave]

Yeah, even I have to admit, Dan is definitely a clone of the most iconic fighting game character ever, Ryo Sakazaki.

I know you joke, but just to set things straight I was referring to Ken and Ryu.

[Refa]

Yeah FWIW, I definitely agree with the point that you're making. I'm just confused as to why it even as to be made at all, but people man.

[Anacybele]

You have absolutely no idea how to defend your position.

I hope you know what a logical fallacy is, because you just did it.

"Ignore this because I can't adequately defend my position with reasoning."

By outlining every point out for you with spacing, you were in a position to quote each point and respond. All you did was be hypocritical about the standards by which you define a clone to be cut.

You're playing the victim card again.

Wow, you're STILL twisting my words and spitting out nonsense. I'm not "playing the victim card" I'm saying it how it is. But there's no point in continuing this since it's just going to result in the exact same thing every time. I'm done here.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Anacybele

[Florete]

It does mean something if Kid Icarus isn't to be over-represented, which I feel it is, and not just in the character department. Kid Icarus has more trophies and whatnot than any other series save for Mario and maybe Zelda. That's ridiculous. Sakurai's bias for it in the game was the one thing that really annoyed me. And I actually enjoyed Uprising, so you can definitely NOT say that I'm just hating on it. And I'm aware that it was easy for him to re-use assets from Uprising since he made that game, but I don't think that was an excuse to have so much bias for it in Smash 4.

Listen, guys, I'm not saying I'd go all nilly-willy with cutting characters nor am I saying that I would enjoy it. I would only do it if I feel it's the right decision. Like Sakurai, I'd honestly make as few cuts as possible.

While this isn't really relevant, part of the reason KI has so many trophies is because the models were easily ported over. Sakurai worked on both, so it's only natural that porting over material from one of his games to another would be easy. EDIT: Oh, you said that already, whoops. Missed that part somehow.

You've got this fallacy of "limited slots" going on. There's no limit to how many characters can be in the game, nor is there a line for how much any given series "deserves" to be represented (or we wouldn't have 6 Fire Emblem characters). Wanting clones to be cut is actually the most unreasonable thing ever, especially when we're talking about a possible port. Not only are clones the easiest characters to make, usually not cutting into the development time of fully unique characters, but cutting characters from a port could possibly take even more time than simply leaving them in.

You liked KI:U and want its content reduced. I disliked KI:U and don't mind if it gets more. That's interesting.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Florete

[shadowofchaos]

Wow, you're STILL twisting my words and spitting out nonsense.

Failing to understand points which are outlined for you to be easy to understand as nonsense just means the following:

You don't want to put forth effort to understand what is being said because it's foreign to you.

You can't hold a discussion unless people agree with you. Which is being shallow. Just as simple as that.

Edited October 22, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Skfoos]

Every character should be cut. Except Fox. And while we're at it, every stage should be cut too. Except FD.

In the end, if you don't like a clone, then you can just not play that character. There are plenty of characters to choose from, and it's not like ignoring clones restricts your choices, since they take up a very small fraction of the roster. I don't see how the phrase "less is more" applies here, since it's not like the addition of a clone affects the entire game as a whole.

[Anacybele]

While this isn't really relevant, part of the reason KI has so many trophies is because the models were easily ported over. Sakurai worked on both, so it's only natural that porting over material from one of his games to another would be easy. EDIT: Oh, you said that already, whoops. Missed that part somehow.

You've got this fallacy of "limited slots" going on. There's no limit to how many characters can be in the game, nor is there a line for how much any given series "deserves" to be represented (or we wouldn't have 6 Fire Emblem characters). Wanting clones to be cut is actually the most unreasonable thing ever, especially when we're talking about a possible port. Not only are clones the easiest characters to make, usually not cutting into the development time of fully unique characters, but cutting characters from a port could possibly take even more time than simply leaving them in.

You liked KI:U and want its content reduced. I disliked KI:U and don't mind if it gets more. That's interesting.

I still don't think it's an excuse to give KI as much content as it got when Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are much more iconic and notable than Kid Icarus. Kirby and Fire Emblem are more important too, imo.

I never said anything about limited slots. I don't care now many characters Sakurai adds as long as the roster isn't riddled with unnecessary clones and unoriginal additions. I was never talking about a port either. My argument for cutting or overhauling clones only applies to a brand new game. Of course it wouldn't be smart to try this for a simple port.

That is interesting. Huh.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Anacybele

[Florete]

I never said anything about limited slots. I don't care now many characters Sakurai adds as long as the roster isn't riddled with unnecessary clones and unoriginal additions. I was never talking about a port either. My argument for cutting or overhauling clones only applies to a brand new game. Of course it wouldn't be smart to try this for a simple port.

You didn't say it, but it's where your logic comes from. "Dark Pit should be cut so that Viridi can get in. Clones should be cut so more interesting characters can get in."

You even tried to throw out the phrase "less is more" to support your logic and I have to think you don't really know what that phrase means because it certainly does not apply here.

[Anacybele]

You didn't say it, but it's where your logic comes from. "Dark Pit should be cut so that Viridi can get in. Clones should be cut so more interesting characters can get in."

You even tried to throw out the phrase "less is more" to support your logic and I have to think you don't really know what that phrase means because it certainly does not apply here.

Yes, I did say all that. I still don't see how that equates to me thinking there's a limited number of slots. I'm talking about limited representation for each franchise so there's not too much bias or too little for one or another. Smash is about all of Nintendo's successful franchises and its history, not just one or two series. There can be twenty characters or two hundred characters in the game, I don't care so long as representation is fairly catering to all these games and history.

In the case of KI, I don't think it should have anymore than two or three characters.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Anacybele

[eclipse]

BY REQUEST.

Seriously, if TC asks for a certain type of discussion, respect their wishes!