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Is Ilyana really that good?


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Fanboys beware, I'm about to trash talk your beloved food whore.

To the best of my knowledge, she was only exceptional in a couple of stats. You need very good luck to have her be awesome. Otherwise she's mediocre, especially to Soren who has problems of his own in this game.

Yeah, she uses thunder tomes but are you going to put her in front of a dragon and risk her being one shotted? She's worse than fragile, and those red dragons are sporting enough power to take her out with little effort.

I used her one PT and she turned out pretty well, but was useless on the final chapter due to her lacking speed and horrid durability.

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Her spd growth is terrible. And she is very frail. And she has low move. And she doesn't really excel in anything.

She does, however, gain the ability to use staves upon promotion, and she has perpetual 1-2 range.

Overall, decent at best.

Edited by Reikken
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Fanboys beware, I'm about to trash talk your beloved food whore.

To the best of my knowledge, she was only exceptional in a couple of stats. You need very good luck to have her be awesome. Otherwise she's mediocre, especially to Soren who has problems of his own in this game.

Yeah, she uses thunder tomes but are you going to put her in front of a dragon and risk her being one shotted? She's worse than fragile, and those red dragons are sporting enough power to take her out with little effort.

I used her one PT and she turned out pretty well, but was useless on the final chapter due to her lacking speed and horrid durability.

Hmph. Illyana is awesome. Every time I use her, she turns out better then Soren does whenever I use him. Maybe she can't kill dragons, but she can kill most any other enemy. Also, she has great speed. Every PT she gets one of the highest speeds out of my units. So yeah, she really is THAT good.

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Her supports with Gatrie and Mordecai give her full defense, highly useful for a mage. She has enoush strength to weild most tomes without AS loss, something Soren severely lacks in. Her growths are average-good, she comes at a decent level with decent bases pretty early on. She uses the strongest magic that also happens to have the highest crit.

Other than that, she's always been amazing for me. Of the mage trio, it's always been Ilyana>Tormod>Soren for me.

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The second time I played PoR, I made it a point to use Ilyana along with several other characters that I didn't care for the first time around. Some of them surprised me, but Ilyana wasn't one of them. She did a good job for a while, but her speed growth wasn't up to par late in the game (this was on a fixed mode run). Ilyana isn't a terrible character, but she doesn't stand out as a particularly good one in my mind. Things would be different if her speed growth was 10% higher.

Edited by Ronan
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Her growths are average-good

30% spd is far below average. The only units with equal or lower spd growth are the three generals. Everyone else has higher. 15% def is also far below average. 50% mag is average for doods who attack with magic (it's actually slightly below; the average is ~54).

So her growths are on the bad side.

She uses the strongest magic that also happens to have the highest crit.

All mages use all three anima magics.

Edited by Reikken
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All mages use all three anima magics.

Considering base weapon levels, Soren generally uses Wind, Ilyana Thunder, and Tormod Fire. Yes, they can use all three, but I find it best to use the one they start with, as that is where they will be most effective when they get weapon level ups.

30% spd is far below average. 15% def also. 50% mag is average for doods who attack with magic.

So her growths are average-bad.

Except luck and Strength, her growths aren't as good as Soren, I know, but that doesn't make them bad. Speed is her only real issue.

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In short, her growths suck where it matters.

Luck isn't that important. It gives half as much avoid as spd, and it doesn't let you double attack like spd does, so it's worth like 1/4 as much as spd is.

Str only matters for not losing AS from your weapon. It can't increase your AS beyond your spd, so any more str beyond about 7 (weight of Elthunder) has little to no effect. You really don't need any more than 3. Thunder weighs 3, and that's the strongest thing that can be forged. Str beyond that does little more than let you use Elthunder with less AS loss. Granted, that is somewhat helpful (for use on higher hp/res things that need more AS to double... so not generals), but only in that it lets you use fewer forged tome uses. And more spd or magic would work much better regardless, since that works with all tomes instead of just Elthunder.

Spd is easily the most important stat, so her having a crappy growth there is a huge hit.

Whether or not her growths are "bad" is relative (One might consider 20%s across the board to be "good".), but they most certainly are below average.

Edited by Reikken
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Ilyana is my favorite in this game because Soren has hard times just even getting higher than 10 damage against a Raven on chapter 12 at least Ilyana can get 11 damage on a raven in chapter tweleve

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In short, her growths suck where it matters.

Luck isn't that important. It gives half as much avoid as spd, and it doesn't let you double attack like spd does, so it's worth like 1/4 as much as spd is.

Str only matters for not losing AS from your weapon. It can't increase your AS beyond your spd, so any more str beyond about 7 (weight of Elthunder) has little to no effect. You really don't need any more than 3. Thunder weighs 3, and that's the strongest thing that can be forged. Str beyond that does little more than let you use Elthunder with less AS loss. Granted, that is somewhat helpful (for use on higher hp/res things that need more AS to double... so not generals), but only in that it lets you use fewer forged tome uses. And more spd or magic would work much better regardless, since that works with all tomes instead of just Elthunder.

Spd is easily the most important stat, so her having a crappy growth there is a huge hit.

Whether or not her growths are "bad" is relative (One might consider 20%s across the board to be "good".), but they most certainly are below average.

Maybe on her own they aren't that great, but consider Soren's base 0 Strength and 5% growth. He can't even weild a basic Wind tome without AS loss, and he won't be for quite a while. Ilyana only has a 1 base, but a 25% growth, so she's likely to have better AS on account of not losing as much when using heavier tomes. I agree, speed is the most important stat, and both of these characters lack it. But Ilyana has better durability on account of her supports and starts more easily usable. This and my generally good luck with her is why I have always preferred her.

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He loses AS from even wind, yes, but since his spd and mag are both 1 higher than hers (assuming he gained 5 levels in the 4-5 chapters before Ilyana shows up, putting them on the same level), she loses in bases anyway. She's always slower, less damaging, or both.

Anyway, back to growths. All I'm saying is that her growths are decidedly below-average.

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Luck isn't that important. It gives half as much avoid as spd, and it doesn't let you double attack like spd does, so it's worth like 1/4 as much as spd is.

But Luck factored into negating Critical, Evasion, and Accuracy.

Critical= 1/2 Skill + Bonuses - Luck

Accuracy = 2x Skill + (1/2)Luck + Weapon Hit

Evasion = 2x Speed + Luck

Luck is pretty important if not.

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There aren't many enemies with decent crit in this game (most have like 5-9 crit, so even Stefan, with his game-worst luck, faces 0-2 crit rates), and her luck isn't high enough to negate the crit on the ones that do have crit.

And more hit doesn't matter when you're already not missing. Magic isn't inaccurate.

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He loses AS from even wind, yes, but since his spd and mag are both 1 higher than hers (assuming he gained 5 levels in the 4-5 chapters before Ilyana shows up, putting them on the same level), she loses in bases anyway. She's always slower, less damaging, or both.

Anyway, back to growths. All I'm saying is that her growths are decidedly below-average.

And then you whip out the better tomes like Elfire/Elthunder. Her Speed stat usually isn't too far behind his, so she's much better at handling the heavier, stronger tomes. Promotion is where this really starts to show.

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btw, I was mistaken. Elthunder has 6 wt, not 7, so str is even less important..

Anyway...

Well, she has only 1 (0.75, to be precise) str on him at base level, which is same/less (0.25 less) than the spd difference, so heavier tomes aren't helping her until later.

Then, later on, Elwind has only 2 wt but only 1 less mt than Elfire, which has 5 wt, so Elfire doesn't help her either.

Elthunder, however, has 3 more mt than Elwind... but also has 6 wt, 4 more than Elwind's. Soren still wins.

At lv 16, for example, Ilyana with Elthunder...

vs Soren with Elthunder = Soren has 0.8 less AS and 2.0 more atk.

vs Soren with Elwind = Soren has 3.2 more AS and 1.0 less atk.

vs Soren with Elfire = Soren has 0.2 more AS and exactly the same atk.

Offensively speaking, Soren wins or ties in any situation. He peforms at worst equal and at best better.

His max AS is 1.7 higher than Ilyana's, and his max atk is 2.0 higher than hers. He can sac either one to beat her in the other, or use a forged tome to win in both simultaneously.

The same holds true throughout the game.

Or, put another way that more clearly acknowledges the fact that stats are random (on random mode, at least)...

Ilyana's chance of having stats high enough to get the job done is equal at best but more often lower than Soren's.

Edited by Reikken
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Elthunder, however, has 3 more mt than Elwind... but also has 6 wt, 4 more than Elwind's. Soren still wins.

How does Soren win? At level 1 promoted, Ilyana has 6 strength, enough to weild any "El" magic, and 15 speed. Soren has about 3 strength, and 17-18 speed. Offensively, they're pretty much tied, but Ilyana is more durable and can wield heavier tomes more easily. She may double slightly less, but her overall damage output will likely be about even with Soren's, even considering his +2 magic boost on her, since he's wielding weaker tomes.

Don't forget that Soren comes with the Adept skill.

Truthfully, that's screwed me more often than helped me. It activates in one of 2 situations:

1. I was trying to only weaken the enemy so someone else could kill it.

2. It's the enemy phase, he activates, kills the enemy and allows another to come in and kill him.

Both have happened to me multiple times. Ilyana, on the other hand, has Shade, which only helps her to stay alive.

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How does Soren win? At level 1 promoted, Ilyana has 6 strength, enough to weild any "El" magic, and 15 speed. Soren has about 3 strength, and 17-18 speed. Offensively, they're pretty much tied, but Ilyana is more durable and can wield heavier tomes more easily. She may double slightly less, but her overall damage output will likely be about even with Soren's, even considering his +2 magic boost on her, since he's wielding weaker tomes.

at lv 1 promoted, Ilyana with Elthunder...

vs Soren with Elthunder: Soren has 0.65 less AS and 2.3 more atk

vs Soren with Elfire: Soren has 0.35 more AS and 0.3 more atk

vs Soren with Elwind: Soren has 2.4 more AS and 0.7 less atk

Have enough atk but need more AS? Soren wins. Have enough AS but need more atk? Again, Soren wins. In no case does Ilyana win. Again, Soren wins or ties in any situation.

both using a forged tome: Soren has 2.4 more AS and 2.3 more atk

For defense... Ilyana can get more def from her supports, but Soren can get more avoid from his supports. Which is better is arguable.

Edited by Reikken
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at lv 1 promoted, Ilyana with Elthunder...

vs Soren with Elthunder: Soren has 0.65 less AS and 2.3 more atk

vs Soren with Elfire: Soren has 0.35 more AS and 0.3 more atk

vs Soren with Elwind: Soren has 2.4 more AS and 0.7 less atk

Have enough atk but need more AS? Soren wins. Have enough AS but need more atk? Again, Soren wins. In no case does Ilyana win. Again, Soren wins or ties in any situation.

both using a forged tome: Soren has 2.4 more AS and 2.3 more atk

For defense... Ilyana can get more def from her supports, but Soren can get more avoid from his supports. Which is better is arguable.

The first is Ilyana's speed vs. Soren's Power, considering Soren got his Thunder level up.

The second is pretty much a break even, considering Soren got his Fire level up.

The third is Soren's speed vs. Ilyana's power.

It's pretty much even on the offense once again. But Ilyana hasn't lost durability.

Then you look at supports. She's getting an attack boost from Mordecai, but so is Soren, so offense is still even. But, Ilyana has more options. Soren only has Ike and Stefan, and that will only get him avoid and accuracy, respectively. The avoid is nice, but likely won't save him, and the accuracy is rather useless considering it's Stefan and Soren has high Skill.

Ilyana has:

Mordecai for +3 defense, +2 attack, +8 hit. This is also rather fast.

Gatrie for +3 defense, +15 hit. Not as fast, but not slow either.

Mia for +2 defense, +2 attack, and +15 hit. Even faster than Gatrie, but slower than Mordecai.

Zihark for +2 defense, +8 hit, and +15 avoid, but it's slower than the others and less likely to be used.

Lucia for the lols.

All (except Lucia) are pretty good characters. She can have an A Mordecai/B Mia by chapter 18, B Zihark by 19, or B Gatrie by 21. Soren's only likely to be supporting Ike at all, and that won't be full until about 21. This also makes Ilyana better as an overall support character.

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The first is Ilyana's speed vs. Soren's Power, considering Soren got his Thunder level up.

The second is pretty much a break even, considering Soren got his Fire level up.

The third is Soren's speed vs. Ilyana's power.

correction:

Elthunder is... small AS win for Ilyana vs much larger atk win for Soren. If the AS matters, Soren uses the Elfire (or Elwind) instead, so that's not an issue. If the atk matters, Soren wins.

Elfire is... small win in both for Soren. If either matters, Soren wins.

Elwind is... small win in atk for Ilyana vs much larger win in AS for Soren. If the atk matters, Soren uses Elfire (or Elthunder) instead, so that's not an issue. If the AS matters, Soren wins.

It's not at all even.

Also, El- tomes are D level. D is the minimum for all magics for the promoted sage class. This means he has at least D on promotion regardless.

D comes pretty quickly even before promotion. It only takes 30 attacks (15 if all are doubles) to get to D, and he already has D in wind.

Then you look at supports. She's getting an attack boost from Mordecai, but so is Soren, so offense is still even. But, Ilyana has more options. Soren only has Ike and Stefan, and that will only get him avoid and accuracy, respectively. The avoid is nice, but likely won't save him, and the accuracy is rather useless considering it's Stefan and Soren has high Skill.

Soren gets atk from both Ike and Stefan. His affinity is dark, which grants attack and avoid.

Ilyana has:

Mordecai for +3 defense, +2 attack, +8 hit. This is also rather fast.

Gatrie for +3 defense, +15 hit. Not as fast, but not slow either.

Mia for +2 defense, +2 attack, and +15 hit. Even faster than Gatrie, but slower than Mordecai.

Zihark for +2 defense, +8 hit, and +15 avoid, but it's slower than the others and less likely to be used.

Lucia for the lols.

All (except Lucia) are pretty good characters. She can have an A Mordecai/B Mia by chapter 18, B Zihark by 19, or B Gatrie by 21. Soren's only likely to be supporting Ike at all, and that won't be full until about 21. This also makes Ilyana better as an overall support character.

Bonuses round down in this game, not up. This isn't Radiant Dawn.

Anyway... "Soren's only likely to be supporting Ike at all" What? Stefan has only two supports, and one is Soren, so he wants that Soren support.

Edited by Reikken
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correction:

Elthunder is... small AS win for Ilyana vs much larger atk win for Soren. If the AS matters, Soren uses the Elfire (or Elwind) instead, so that's not an issue. If the atk matters, Soren wins.

Elfire is... small win in both for Soren. If either matters, Soren wins.

Elwind is... small win in atk for Ilyana vs much larger win in AS for Soren. If the atk matters, Soren uses Elfire (or Elthunder) instead, so that's not an issue. If the AS matters, Soren wins.

It's not at all even.

If you round:

Elthunder would be 1 AS for Ilyana and 2 power for Soren. Not a huge difference.

Elfire is even. If slightly blessed, Soren would only barely win.

Elwind is Soren's 2 AS and Ilyana's 1 power. Still not a big difference, though a bit better.

It's pretty much even. Ilyana also has a better, if only barely, critical chance with her Elthunder, since Soren is most likely wielding Elwind. Overall, Soren has just a slight offensive edge on Ilyana.

Also, El- tomes are D level. D is the minimum for all magics for the promoted sage class. This means he has at least D on promotion regardless.

D comes pretty quickly even before promotion. It only takes 30 attacks (15 if all are doubles) to get to D, and he already has D in wind.

Forgot that. Disregard what I said about weapon levels. Except that it still isn't likely he'll be getting D very long before promotion anyway, seeing as Adept doesn't gain any WEXP.

Soren gets atk from both Ike and Stefan. His affinity is dark, which grants attack and avoid.

Bonuses round down in this game, not up. This isn't Radiant Dawn.

I could swear they rounded up when I saw a +23 avoid for Soren with an A Ike support, but looking it up, I guess I was wrong. Even so, it doesn't put a huge dent in her, and makes it worse for Soren also. And both Ike and Stefan take a while to get up, if Stefan is even played, which I find unlikely. Plus, Ike does much better with a support from Oscar, since he doesn't really need Soren's attack. Also, Soren isn't getting attack from either of them, only himself, so his attack boost isn't great. Stefan's support is rather useless for him.

Edited by Red Fox of Fire
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If you round:

Averages aren't averages if you round. Rounding simply arbitrarily biases the comparison. These average stat differences are a way of putting how much more likely the character is to win by however much into a simple number. Rounding skews that and gains nothing for it.

Anyway, the point is that it's very true that either the differences don't matter, in which case they tie, or they do matter, in which case Soren wins. It's pretty much mathematical fact that Soren's offense is better.

Ilyana also has a better, if only barely, critical chance with her Elthunder, since Soren is most likely wielding Elwind.

Soren's Adept + crit with Elwind > Ilyana's crit with Elthunder. (at 20/1, about 24.5% vs 14.4%)

Soren's Adept + crit with Elthunder >> Ilyana's crit with Elthunder. (at 20/1, about 32.4% vs 14.4%)

And if Soren is doubling while Ilyana doesn't, that gives him twice as many chances to crit/Adept.

(Thunder should be Soren's basic post-promotion weapon, btw, since he usually has 3 str by then. It's as strong as Elwind, but it has 5 crit. )

Forgot that. Disregard what I said about weapon levels. Except that it still isn't likely he'll be getting D very long before promotion anyway, seeing as Adept doesn't gain any WEXP.

doesn't gain any extra*

It only makes him lose on exp if he was going to double and kill anyway, and it activates on the first attack.

if Stefan is even played, which I find unlikely.

I find Mia or Gatrie far more unlikely to be played. (See: FE9 tier list)

Ike is also guaranteed to be played, while Ilyana has no such guaranteed supporters. Looks overall pretty even to me.

I personally don't really use any except of course Ike. Occasionally Mordecai. More rarely, Stefan or Zihark. Almost never Mia, and never ever Gatrie.

Plus, Ike does much better with a support from Oscar, since he doesn't really need Soren's attack. Also, Soren isn't getting attack from either of them, only himself, so his attack boost isn't great. Stefan's support is rather useless for him.

On the contrary, he doesn't need Oscar's avoid (after promotion, anyway. It does matter before.). His defensive stats are pretty beastly as is, and he's already getting +avoid from Soren, and add Aether on top of that for practical invincibility. I can, however, give examples of where +attack would make a difference.

You can have two supports in this game anyway, so he's probably getting both Oscar and Soren.

Edited by Reikken
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Averages aren't averages if you round. Rounding simply arbitrarily biases the comparison. These average stat differences are a way of putting how much more likely the character is to win by however much into a simple number. Rounding skews that and gains nothing for it.

Personally, I don't see a .3 difference as a real difference at all. Your character won't have a stat at 17.8 in the game. Now, if the case were something like the difference between 10.5 and 11.4, I wouldn't round and say it's the same. But something like a .35 difference... Seriously?

I find Mia or Gatrie far more unlikely to be played. (See: FE9 tier list)

Ike is also guaranteed to be played, while Ilyana has no such guaranteed supporters. Looks overall pretty even to me.

I personally don't really use any except of course Ike. Occasionally Mordecai. More rarely, Stefan or Zihark. Almost never Mia, and never ever Gatrie.

Lol tier lists. Prepromotes are generally less liked just because they are prepromotes, even if one is good. Ike is guaranteed, which means you want the best possible support for him, and I can't see Soren as that. Mordecai and Zihark at least I believe are fairly likely to be played. Mia and Gatrie less often, but still occasionally.

On the contrary, he doesn't need Oscar's avoid (after promotion, anyway. It does matter before.). His defensive stats are pretty beastly as is, and he's already getting +avoid from Soren, and add Aether on top of that for practical invincibility. I can, however, give examples of where +attack would make a difference.

You can have two supports in this game anyway, so he's probably getting both Oscar and Soren.

He doesn't need it, but he needs Soren's support even less. Oscar is his fastest support, and arguably his best. His strength and skill are usually good enough, so ensuring he won't even be hit makes for a practically invincible duo. Soren could get a B with him, but IkeXOscar A is better than IkeXSoren A.

Edited by Red Fox of Fire
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