Climate Change

[Anacybele]

Related to the link, the cutting of climate change is gonna hurt a lot. What we do from now on is absolutely crucial in regards to the planet, and now the US has elected a man who denies man-made climate change. Wonderful.

You know, I've seen people say Trump disagrees with global warming and that he disagrees with man-made climate change. Which is it? Because these two are not quite the same. Global warming is a natural thing. It's happened to the planet long before people even existed. The earth has gone through ice ages as well as times where the climate was warm everywhere year round, and during these times, humans didn't yet exist. Snowball Earth was when life had barely begun to appear on the planet, and when the dinosaurs ruled, the climate was warm everywhere. And so on.

Man-made climate change would be just that, climate change due to the actions of people. But I don't believe people have had enough of an effect to actually cause global warming and notable climate change. People would have to do pretty drastic and big things to actually affect the entire planet's climate on their own. Climate change happens for a number of reasons. Plate tectonics can affect it (this was the reason Snowball Earth happened), weather patterns can affect it, etc.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

You know, I've seen people say Trump disagrees with global warming and that he disagrees with man-made climate change. Which is it? Because these two are not quite the same. Global warming is a natural thing. It's happened to the planet long before people even existed. The earth has gone through ice ages as well as times where the climate was warm everywhere year round, and during these times, humans didn't yet exist. Snowball Earth was when life had barely begun to appear on the planet, and when the dinosaurs ruled, the climate was warm everywhere. And so on.

Man-made climate change would be just that, climate change due to the actions of people. But I don't believe people have had enough of an effect to actually cause global warming and notable climate change. People would have to do pretty drastic and big things to actually affect the entire planet's climate on their own. Climate change happens for a number of reasons. Plate tectonics can affect it (this was the reason Snowball Earth happened), weather patterns can affect it, etc.

People do stuff -> causes the earth to get warmer at a faster pace than is safe -> causes climate change. Global Warming is the cause and Climate Change is the effect.

The idea (and actual truth) is that the globe is getting warmer which is causing very very horrible changes in weather.

If you want to be more informed on this, I highly suggest you read up on scientific literature. The physics is actually quite simple as to why global warming is a problem (the very basics are related to how thermal expansion works on an extremely large body of water), but the literature shows very clear trends of warming ever since the industrial error and explains the science behind greenhouse gases.

The evidence is extremely real and out there, and the science that results from it (and causes it) is something that is learned in very fundamental physics courses. Global Warming isn't some "chinese conspiracy," even though Trump's denied having made this claim (lol, I'm hoping this means that he will believe in it after all).

EDIT: fyi millennials: https://twitter.com/EByard/status/796317753749729280

hopefully this means something good to come out of 2020 and the DNC won't pull the same shit they did before. I personally believe that Bernie was hard to work with (based on people who worked with his campaign) and even he shot himself in the foot a little bit, but the DNC didn't even make an attempt to entertain him.

In retrospect it's kind of crazy that the democrats didn't realize they weren't actually fighting a Ted Cruz - because this was a war of personality, not a war of actual policy.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Time the Crestfallen]

You know, I've seen people say Trump disagrees with global warming and that he disagrees with man-made climate change. Which is it? Because these two are not quite the same. Global warming is a natural thing. It's happened to the planet long before people even existed. The earth has gone through ice ages as well as times where the climate was warm everywhere year round, and during these times, humans didn't yet exist. Snowball Earth was when life had barely begun to appear on the planet, and when the dinosaurs ruled, the climate was warm everywhere. And so on.

You mean aside from the 'global warning is a Chinese hoax" tweet?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/trump-climate-change-stance-228771

Man-made climate change would be just that, climate change due to the actions of people. But I don't believe people have had enough of an effect to actually cause global warming and notable climate change. People would have to do pretty drastic and big things to actually affect the entire planet's climate on their own. Climate change happens for a number of reasons. Plate tectonics can affect it (this was the reason Snowball Earth happened), weather patterns can affect it, etc.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/pd/climate/factsheets/howhuman.pdf

https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Global-Warming/Global-Warming-is-Human-Caused.aspx

http://globalwarming-facts.info/causes-global-warming-human/

Start with these, then do some research of your own. If you really think that mankind doesn't have a significant impact on global warming, than you're woefully uninformed on the issue.

[Anacybele]

People do stuff -> causes the earth to get warmer at a faster pace than is safe -> causes climate change. Global Warming is the cause and Climate Change is the effect.

The idea (and actual truth) is that the globe is getting warmer which is causing very very horrible changes in weather.

If you want to be more informed on this, I highly suggest you read up on scientific literature. The physics is actually quite simple as to why global warming is a problem (the very basics are related to how thermal expansion works on an extremely large body of water), but the literature shows very clear trends of warming ever since the industrial error and explains the science behind greenhouse gases.

The evidence is extremely real and out there, and the science that results from it (and causes it) is something that is learned in very fundamental physics courses. Global Warming isn't some "chinese conspiracy," even though Trump's denied having made this claim (lol, I'm hoping this means that he will believe in it after all).

Then explain why 2010 was the coldest winter on record for this country. It was the first time in recorded history that EVERY SINGLE STATE got snow somewhere, including Hawaii on the mountain tops.

There was also winter...2014, I believe, where it was much colder in eastern NA than usual. We had record low temperatures that year. If the earth was slowly warming due to people's actions, would these two bitterly cold winters have happened?

[Zanarkin]

Then explain why 2010 was the coldest winter on record for this country. It was the first time in recorded history that EVERY SINGLE STATE got snow somewhere, including Hawaii on the mountain tops.

There was also winter...2014, I believe, where it was much colder in eastern NA than usual. We had record low temperatures that year. If the earth was slowly warming due to people's actions, would these two bitterly cold winters have happened?

Just because it is cold in one region of the planet, does not mean the average temperature of the whole planet did not rise.

[Tryhard]

I believe the consensus is that 97% of scientists agree that man-made climate change is real and while they can't come to the same conclusions about its effects, agree on its cause.

But I mean, it's not like that matters.

[Anacybele]

Just because it is cold in one region of the planet, does not mean the average temperature of the whole planet did not rise.

Then it's still more likely to be natural causes in my eyes. Besides, I'm all for the planet warming up a little. I hate the cold. I'd love to live in a warm-year-round world like the dinosaurs did. Of course, so long as it isn't TOO hot.

[Lord Raven]

Then explain why 2010 was the coldest winter on record for this country. It was the first time in recorded history that EVERY SINGLE STATE got snow somewhere, including Hawaii on the mountain tops.

There was also winter...2014, I believe, where it was much colder in eastern NA than usual. We had record low temperatures that year. If the earth was slowly warming due to people's actions, would these two bitterly cold winters have happened?

a) the average temperature across the world is increasing. In a singular country is different than in the entire world.

b) "Climate Change" => the weather will do funky things. You should also keep in mind that 2014 was a year where Maryland literally ran out of salt for the mid-atlantic, because we would, in the same week, hit 70 degrees and have like 4 total inches of snow. And then it would be so cold that water pipes freeze. That's the east coast.

c) The reason why people prefer the term "climate change" is because when the earth warms up, the climate changes. This does not mean that we have more tropical climates, this means that the climate is much more volatile, much more difficult to predict, and many weather effects become exaggerated.

I believe the consensus is that 97% of scientists agree that man-made climate change is real and while they can't come to the same conclusions about its effects, agree on its cause.

But I mean, it's not like that matters.

I think it's 97% of climate-related scientists, not 97% of all scientists, but in all honesty I wouldn't put too much stock in what all scientists believe because their specialty is not in climate sciences. Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Res]

Ozone layer loss is human-caused and its effects are catastrophic.

I'm also receiving reports of several election-related suicides and even kids are feeling the effects, so please do stay safe (to anyone lurking).

[Nobody]

Then explain why 2010 was the coldest winter on record for this country. It was the first time in recorded history that EVERY SINGLE STATE got snow somewhere, including Hawaii on the mountain tops.

There was also winter...2014, I believe, where it was much colder in eastern NA than usual. We had record low temperatures that year. If the earth was slowly warming due to people's actions, would these two bitterly cold winters have happened?

Global warming does not mean you can't get a cold, or even very cold winter. It's about AVERAGES. Cold winters can and will happen. As will unbelievably hot summers. If you go do some research, you will see that most places are having their highest recorded temperatures the past few years. My city itself included. its average temperature was 69F. The past few years, it has been 72F. That might not seem like it, but it's a huge change. Haven't you been noticing hotter summers where you live? Even if you haven't, it's a fact that temperatures have been rising, that they've been rising fast and that scientists have evidence that that's related to human activity. Why don't you trust actual researches and professionals whose job is figure out that stuff rather than your own anecdotes?

Oh, by the way, the past 5 years have been the hottest years on record. It's a fact, there's no denying or arguing. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37900400

Edited November 9, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody

[Time the Crestfallen]

Then explain why 2010 was the coldest winter on record for this country. It was the first time in recorded history that EVERY SINGLE STATE got snow somewhere, including Hawaii on the mountain tops.

There was also winter...2014, I believe, where it was much colder in eastern NA than usual. We had record low temperatures that year. If the earth was slowly warming due to people's actions, would these two bitterly cold winters have happened?

I'll explain that if you can explain these:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2016/09/20/earth-hottest-summer-record/90731548/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2016/09/08/usa-summer-climate-report/89998172/

https://weather.com/news/climate/news/summer-2016-record-hottest-us-cities

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/17/world/earths-hottest-summer-ever/

http://www.ecowatch.com/its-official-summer-2015-hottest-ever-in-recorded-history-1882096191.html

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-summer-2014-hottest-on-record-noaa-20140919-story.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/09/18/earth-hottest-summer-climate/15823745/

http://www.climatecouncil.org.au/uploads/e806ce05fb7971216b16aeed9346cb94.pdf

That's three years of consecutive hottest summers.

Then it's still more likely to be natural causes in my eyes. Besides, I'm all for the planet warming up a little. I hate the cold. I'd love to live in a warm-year-round world like the dinosaurs did. Of course, so long as it isn't TOO hot.

Human comfort is the very least cause for concern. How about the impacts that it will have on food production and ecosystems? Multiple species of bees were recently added to the list of endangered species in the US, and I shouldn't have to tell you why that's horrid.

http://www.sciencealert.com/seven-species-of-bees-have-been-added-to-the-endangered-species-list

http://www.nature.com/news/climate-change-crushes-bee-populations-1.17950

[ping]

Then explain why 2010 was the coldest winter on record for this country. It was the first time in recorded history that EVERY SINGLE STATE got snow somewhere, including Hawaii on the mountain tops.

There was also winter...2014, I believe, where it was much colder in eastern NA than usual. We had record low temperatures that year. If the earth was slowly warming due to people's actions, would these two bitterly cold winters have happened?

My grandma used to tell the story about her mother scraping out the snowdrops out of the snow so that my father could have flowers on his birthday table on Feb 28th every year.

I can't remember a single time we had snow on that particular date, so clearly this proves that global warming is A Thing.

[UNLEASH IT]

I do believe that global warming is real but if we are to combat it, it has to be an international agreement. It can't just be the US deciding to lower our emission level while China, Brazil, India, Russia other OPEC nations are allowed to do as they please, because that doesn't really solve anything. Also, the viability of solar and wind energy actually isn't that great and these machines needed to harness these energy sources often cost a lot to construct. I mean, nuclear energy is also emission free, but a bit very dangerous if something goes wrong. But at the end of the day, what will really help against global warming is everyone on the planet lowering their daily energy usage. And I really don't have faith in people to make a conscious effort to do that.

[Tryhard]

I think it's 97% of climate-related scientists, not 97% of all scientists, but in all honesty I wouldn't put too much stock in what all scientists believe because their specialty is not in climate sciences.

Err, yes. That's what I meant, and I believe it's just straight up from climate change scientific papers.

That's three years of consecutive hottest summers.

Human comfort is the very least cause for concern. How about the impacts that it will have on food production and ecosystems? Multiple species of bees were recently added to the list of endangered species in the US, and I shouldn't have to tell you why that's horrid.

I found this one the most interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/climate-change-could-make-parts-of-the-middle-east-and-north-africa-uninhabitable-a7010811.html

If people think the refugee crisis right now is bad what are they going to say when parts of the Middle East and Africa become uninhabitable?

[Lord Raven]

Global warming does not mean you can't get a cold, or even very could winter. It's about AVERAGES. Cold winters can and will happen. As will unbelievably hot summers. If you go do some research, you will see that most places are having their highest recorded temperatures the past few years. My city itself included. its average temperature was 69F. The past few years, it has been 72F. That might not seem like it, but it's a huge change. Haven't you been noticing hotter summers where you live? Even if you haven't, it's a fact that temperatures have been rising, that they've been rising fast and that scientists have evidence that that's related to human activity. Why don't you trust actual researches and professionals whose job is figure out that stuff rather than your own anecdotes?

Oh, by the way, the past 5 years have been the hottest years on record. It's a fact, there's no denying or arguing. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37900400

Would also like to add that even a fraction of a degree change in worldwide average temperature results in a significantly higher change in sea level - and this is not counting some of the icebergs that would melt into it, it's just simple thermal expansion. The kind you learn about in high school physics.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I do believe that global warming is real but if we are to combat it, it has to be an international agreement. It can't just be the US deciding to lower our emission level while China, Brazil, India, Russia other OPEC nations are allowed to do as they please, because that doesn't really solve anything. Also, the viability of solar and wind energy actually isn't that great and these machines needed to harness these energy sources often cost a lot to construct. I mean, nuclear energy is also emission free, but a bit very dangerous if something goes wrong. But at the end of the day, what will really help against global warming is everyone on the planet lowering their daily energy usage. And I really don't have faith in people to make a conscious effort to do that.

All true, but it doesn't change the fact that the US has some of the highest CO2 emissions in the world and will be a key player in addressing climate change. It can't just be the US lowering emission levels, but electing a person who denies the man-made impacts on climate change is devastating, especially considering that it's likely Trump will pull the US out of things like the Paris Agreement.

I found this one the most interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/climate-change-could-make-parts-of-the-middle-east-and-north-africa-uninhabitable-a7010811.html

If people think the refugee crisis right now is bad what are they going to say when parts of the Middle East and Africa become uninhabitable?

Yep, same as usual. They're going to drag their feet it right up until the effects are too catastrophic to ignore and by then it'll be far too late to do anything about it.

[Zanarkin]

I do believe that global warming is real but if we are to combat it, it has to be an international agreement. It can't just be the US deciding to lower our emission level while China, Brazil, India, Russia other OPEC nations are allowed to do as they please, because that doesn't really solve anything. Also, the viability of solar and wind energy actually isn't that great and these machines needed to harness these energy sources often cost a lot to construct. I mean, nuclear energy is also emission free, but a bit very dangerous if something goes wrong. But at the end of the day, what will really help against global warming is everyone on the planet lowering their daily energy usage. And I really don't have faith in people to make a conscious effort to do that.

What does it matter what other countries do? The US is still one of the biggest emitters and reducing it is a big step towards a more stable climate. Regardless of what other countries do, its more of a moral imperative for each respective country to do it. If a country claims to be concerned with it's people, ignoring global warming is rather hypocritical.

[Nobody]

I do believe that global warming is real but if we are to combat it, it has to be an international agreement. It can't just be the US deciding to lower our emission level while China, Brazil, India, Russia other OPEC nations are allowed to do as they please, because that doesn't really solve anything. Also, the viability of solar and wind energy actually isn't that great and these machines needed to harness these energy sources often cost a lot to construct. I mean, nuclear energy is also emission free, but a bit very dangerous if something goes wrong. But at the end of the day, what will really help against global warming is everyone on the planet lowering their daily energy usage. And I really don't have faith in people to make a conscious effort to do that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

United States 16.4

Russia 12.5

China 7.6

Brazil 2.5

India 1.6

As you can see, the American CO2 emessions are much higher than most other countries. Of course, all of them have to reduce their emissions, but America is not only one of the countries with the most emissions, it's also a rich country, which means it can afford to reduce them.

This is why Trump appealing to the coal workers the way he did is so dangerous. Coal is bad from an economic and environmental point of view. By telling these people you're doing everything to make sure they can keep working with coal, you're making sure the USA will make more emissions. Hydroelectric energy has been under some scrunity in my country, which gets most of its energy supplies from it (which probably explain our relatively low emissions at 2.5), but its certainly better for the environment than fossil fuels. In this way, the USA has a lot to improve. That's actually why I find it baffling when normally liberal people said Hillary would have been as bad as Trump. Even if you disregard what economists think is a terrible economic policy (Trump's) that would massively increase debt, the sum of all the small things Trump believes in, the republicans wouldn't oppose, and that actually affect the world in a massive way is worrying

Edited November 9, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody

[Anacybele]

Human comfort is the very least cause for concern. How about the impacts that it will have on food production and ecosystems? Multiple species of bees were recently added to the list of endangered species in the US, and I shouldn't have to tell you why that's horrid.

http://www.sciencealert.com/seven-species-of-bees-have-been-added-to-the-endangered-species-list

http://www.nature.com/news/climate-change-crushes-bee-populations-1.17950

That's an issue, I won't deny that, but bees aren't the only things that pollinate flowers. Certain birds, butterflies, and other living things do as well, you know. It's still an issue, but not quite as big as you make it out to be.

[Lord Raven]

No, it's an issue, and frankly at this point you're ignoring all the other points about how destructive global warming is. That was literally one example. What about the middle east becoming uninhabitable? The American Southeast getting hit by ridiculously powerful hurricanes every 2 years? (This is happening by the way - Katrina was no fluke, there were many more to come). Literally the city of New Orleans may not even be around in 20 years.

[Anacybele]

No, it's an issue, and frankly at this point you're ignoring all the other points about how destructive global warming is. That was literally one example. What about the middle east becoming uninhabitable? The American Southeast getting hit by ridiculously powerful hurricanes every 2 years? (This is happening by the way - Katrina was no fluke, there were many more to come). Literally the city of New Orleans may not even be around in 20 years.

Didn't I just say that it's an issue? I said it's not AS big an issue as the rest of you think.

Big hurricanes have hit the southeast for decades, what are you talking about? Also, as far as I've seen, recent hurricanes have yet to be as strong as Katrina was. Matthew was a category 5 for a little while, but not when it actually hit land. It weakened faster than Katrina did.

People think some cities won't be around due to sea level rising. That's happened before people existed too, during the warmer eras of earth's history when there were no polar ice caps and such. And the sea level wouldn't rise to the degree you're describing for many decades yet. Plenty of time to prevent that from happening.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

Didn't I just say that it's an issue? I said it's not AS big an issue as the rest of you think.

Source? And you didn't address anything else. The Middle East becoming uninhabitable isn't a big deal?

Big hurricanes have hit the southeast for decades, what are you talking about?

Yes, and they've been made worse...

People think some cities won't be around due to sea level rising. That's happened before people existed too, during the warmer eras of earth's history when there were no polar ice caps and such. And the sea level wouldn't rise to the degree you're describing for many decades yet. Plenty of time to prevent that from happening.

"many decades" is still an issue. I said two decades. Happening before people existed is irrelevant; there are millions of people in New Orleans and they clearly live there. This is actually not a natural cycle, and you failed to read the literature that showed that this is a man-made issue due to carbon emissions.

We should make a separate thread for climate change anyway, but it is extremely dangerous domestically and abroad that we have a candidate and a congress whose majority doesn't believe in global warming.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Time the Crestfallen]

That's an issue, I won't deny that, but bees aren't the only things that pollinate flowers. Certain birds, butterflies, and other living things do as well, you know. It's still an issue, but not quite as big as you make it out to be.

http://animals.mom.me/would-happen-bees-became-extinct-4816.html

http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa/if-bees-became-extinct-what-effect-would-have-mankind

http://www.globalresearch.ca/death-and-extinction-of-the-bees/5375684

No, it is as big as I'm making it out to be. The loss of bees would collapse entire ecosystems and have devastating consequences on food production.

[Anacybele]

Source? And you didn't address anything else. The Middle East becoming uninhabitable isn't a big deal?

Yes, and they've been made worse...

"many decades" is still an issue. I literally described two decades.

Happening before people existed is irrelevant; there are millions of people in New Orleans and they clearly live there.

Who ever said there was a chance the MIddle East could be uninhabitable? There's been no mention of such a thing until you brought it up.

Also, why do I need to source you all the living things that pollinate flowers? I figured this would be, you know, common knowledge...

No, it is relevant, because it proves that it can happen due to natural causes, not only by people's actions.

[Nobody]

Didn't I just say that it's an issue? I said it's not AS big an issue as the rest of you think.

Big hurricanes have hit the southeast for decades, what are you talking about? Also, as far as I've seen, recent hurricanes have yet to be as strong as Katrina was. Matthew was a category 5 for a little while, but not when it actually hit land. It weakened faster than Katrina did.

People think some cities won't be around due to sea level rising. That's happened before people existed too, during the warmer eras of earth's history when there were no polar ice caps and such. And the sea level wouldn't rise to the degree you're describing for many decades yet. Plenty of time to prevent that from happening.

Have you ever heard of geological time? those old changes happened through the course of million years. What is happening now is happening in decades.