Rezzy Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) The embargo was a bad policy, but it's not all the embargo's fault. State abolishing private property and controlling all the production has systematically led to shortages and the exact sort of economic problems Cuba faces. Also, as far as I know, the embargo didn't force Fidel Castro to control the island with an iron fist, neither did it force him to suppress anyone who voices any dissidence. It didn't force him to forbid any sort of free media. It didn't prevent him from organizing free elections, which he never did. The embargo was actually a much needed scapegoat for Fidel Castro to pretend the misery Cuba goes through wasn't his fault. It was such a bad policy. I'm not an expert on the subject, but wasn't the USA the only country that actually followed the embargo? Cuba still had the rest of the world to trade with, so you can't really say that was the deciding factor in their economy. If I'm incorrect in that regard, please let me know. EDIT: On the subject of Andrew Jackson, I think he was one of the worst presidents we've had, and I'm ashamed of what he did to the Native population of America. He was bona fide crazy and killed people in duels for merely insulting his wife. A quick Google search says Jackson was in anywhere between 5 and 103 duels, which is crazy even by 19th century standards. Andrew, I know girls named Rachel are the best thing ever, but you really need to cool it. Edited November 29, 2016 by Rezzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) I'm not an expert on the subject, but wasn't the USA the only country that actually followed the embargo? Cuba still had the rest of the world to trade with, so you can't really say that was the deciding factor in their economy. If I'm incorrect in that regard, please let me know. I don't know if it was the only one, but yeah, the Embargo is not an worldwide thing, it's most an American thing. Cuba can and does trade with China, with Russia (and the former Soviet Union), with some European countries, with Canada, with Venezuela, with my country, Brazil and, I assume, most Latin American countries. The Brazilian government itself helped them build a modern port some years ago, for example. Edited November 29, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dictators, especially those with a high death count under their belt, are always interesting subjects of analysis. Stalin is probably the least interesting one because his rise to power isn't as complex an affair as somebody like Hitler's and as far as his ideology and psyche are concerned it's pretty well documented that he was a psychopath who suffered from heavy paranoia after being beaten up by his violent father as a child several times. What made him become what we know him as is a lot easier to understand than Castro who was born, of all things, into a wealthy catholic-conservative family. fascism isn't a leftist ideology. 'Fascism' and 'totalitarian ideology' are terms that are being used interchangably, accurate or not. Most of the major totalitarian ideologies in history are of collectivist nature - Nationalsozialismus, various incarnations of fascism [in Italy, Japan, Croatia et cetera], Communism and even the abrahamitic religions. And since 'collectivist' and 'leftist' are being used interchangably, accurate or not, you have a direct connection from left-wing extremism to fascism. Of course all these arguments are nonsencial as 'left' and 'right' are misleading terms we all should've removed from our political terminology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwalin2010 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Concering Mussolini's fascism in Italy, just on observation: from what I read (I studied in Milan, high school and university, although I am Russian), Fascism is considered slightly different from Hitler's Nazional Socialism and Stalin's most extreme form of Communsim (with his death it was still an oppressive regime compared to democracy, but anyway I suppose it could be said that before Stalin's death things were definitely different that after he was out of the picture). I mean, Fascism is different because Mussolini's control over all aspects of Italian society wasn't as complete as Hitler's and Stalin's in their countries. There were some parts where his power was limited and he knew it. He couldn't throw the king in jail, to make the most oblvious example (actually, it happened the other way around on a certain point), the army was more loyal to the king than Mussolini if I remember correctly what I read. This is just an observation, I mean, it's not like Mussolini was a better person that other dictators or whatever, it's just that he was weaker in his own country. Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc were way more powerful. Although to be honest, in my opinion the worst dictator of all was Pol Pot. He killed less people than Stalin and Hitler only because his country was smaller and therefore with a smaller population. Usually dictators kill many people to achieve something, like for example Stalin thought that with his terror, executions, gulags and over-working people to death, the country would become stronger. Theoretically, under him the country was a military power etc, although the end certainly doesn't justfy the means, and I have nothing positive say about the concept of military and "war" in general etc, but that would be off-topic....What I mean is that most dictators want to achieve something they could use to their advantage or to the advantage of the country as a political entity, although completely disregarding the value of human life and committing genocide. Their motives are clear, although they don't constitute justification in any way. Pol Pot's massacres, on the other hand, were completely pointless. They didn't bring any order, not even the "order of a graveyard", they didn't make one social class stronger by making the other suffer, they didn't help to make the country stronger in any way, nothing, he didn't even manage to have any real benefit for himself and his "friends" at expense of the Cambodian people. At the end he was overthrown by his own regime accomplices, which doesn't happen to totalitarian dictators that often. Usually, they die a natural death while still in power and people in their country can start criticizing them openly only after that. Or maybe, rather than "worst" (since after all it's the number of victims that is the most important factor I think), I shoud say he was the most stupid and incapable of them all. Edited November 29, 2016 by Dwalin2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dictators, especially those with a high death count under their belt, are always interesting subjects of analysis. Stalin is probably the least interesting one because his rise to power isn't as complex an affair as somebody like Hitler's and as far as his ideology and psyche are concerned it's pretty well documented that he was a psychopath who suffered from heavy paranoia after being beaten up by his violent father as a child several times. What made him become what we know him as is a lot easier to understand than Castro who was born, of all things, into a wealthy catholic-conservative family. 'Fascism' and 'totalitarian ideology' are terms that are being used interchangably, accurate or not. Most of the major totalitarian ideologies in history are of collectivist nature - Nationalsozialismus, various incarnations of fascism [in Italy, Japan, Croatia et cetera], Communism and even the abrahamitic religions. And since 'collectivist' and 'leftist' are being used interchangably, accurate or not, you have a direct connection from left-wing extremism to fascism. Of course all these arguments are nonsencial as 'left' and 'right' are misleading terms we all should've removed from our political terminology. there are extremist elements of both wings to be found in fascism. i would argue, as i think blah did before, that fascism is outside of the spectrum. a third choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Yeah, normal Fascism was fundamentally different from Naziism, mostly because Mussolini's people were radical reactionaries, while Hitler was futurist. Then you have Clerical Fascism (see: Francoist Spain, Saudi Arabia, Iran), Integralism (racism is good, but sexism isn't!), Strasserism ("lets take the 'Socialism' part seriously here, guys"), the Baathists ("fuck the Israelis, fuck the Saudis, fuck the Iranians, fuck the West, and FUCK THE NASSERISTS!"), the Nasserists ("fuck the Israelis, fuck the Saudis, fuck the Iranians, fuck the West, and FUCK THE BAATHISTS!"). National Socialism, I've noticed, has a weird obsession with living space that other forms don't have. So yeah, Fascism is diverse, almost as much as Marxism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Diego Maradona's letter https://m.facebook.com/DiegoMaradonaOficial/photos/pb.104346839616674.-2207520000.1480575022./1297328463651833/?type=3&theater I cannot find an English source translation article for this, but you guys can use google translate. Murió mi amigo, mi confidente, el que me aconsejó, el que me llamaba a cualquier hora para hablar de polÃtica, de fútbol, de béisbol, el que me dijo que cuando se fuese Clinton el que venÃa era peor, que fue Bush. Como no se equivocó nunca, para mà Fidel es, fue y será eterno, el único, el más grande. Me duele el corazón porque el mundo pierde al más sabio de todos.No cualquiera tumba una dictadura con 20 hombres desafÃando al Imperio norteamericano.No cualquiera elimina el analfabetismo en un año.No cualquiera baja la mortalidad infantil de 42% a 4%.No cualquiera forma más de 130 mil médicos, garantizando 1 médico por cada 130 personas, con el mayor indice de médicos per cápita del mundo.No cualquiera crea la mayor Facultad de Médicina del Mundo, graduando1500 médicos extranjeros por año, con 25.000 médicos graduados de 84 naciones.No cualquiera envÃa más de 30 mil médicos a colaborar en más de 68 paises del mundo sumando cerca de 600.000 misiones.No cualquiera logra ser la única nación latinoamericana sin desnutrición infantil.No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs latinoamericano sin problema de drogas.No cualquiera logra 100% de escolarización.No cualquiera puede circular en su pais sin ver un solo niño durmiendo en la calle.No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs del mundo que cumple la sostenibilidad ecológica.No cualquiera logra que su población tenga 79 años de esperanza de vida al nacer.No cualquiera crea vacunas contra el Cáncer.No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs que erradica la transmisión madre-hijo del VIH.No cualquiera logra tener la mayor cantidad de medallas olÃmpicas de Latinoamérica.No cualquiera sobrevive a más de 600 atentados contra su vida y a 11 presidentes norteamericanos intentando derrocarlo.No cualquiera sobrevive a 50 años de bloqueo y guerra económica.No cualquiera llega a los 90 años, con tanto protagonismo en la historia mundial.Querido por millones. Incomprendido por otros cuantos. Lo que no puede hacer nadie, es ignorarlo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) Murió mi amigo, mi confidente, el que me aconsejó, el que me llamaba a cualquier hora para hablar de polÃtica, de fútbol, de béisbol, el que me dijo que cuando se fuese Clinton el que venÃa era peor, que fue Bush. Como no se equivocó nunca, para mà Fidel es, fue y será eterno, el único, el más grande. Me duele el corazón porque el mundo pierde al más sabio de todos. My friend died, my confidant, he who gave me advise, he who called me at any time to speak about politics, football, and baseball, he who said that when Clinton would leave, the one who would come after would be worst, which was Bush, Since he never went wrong, to me Fidel is, was, and will be eternal, unique, and the biggest. My heart aches because the whole world lost the wisest of them all. No cualquiera tumba una dictadura con 20 hombres desafÃando al Imperio norteamericano. Not just anyone removes a dictatorship with 20 men defying the North American Empire. No cualquiera elimina el analfabetismo en un año. Not just anyone eliminates illiteracy in a year No cualquiera baja la mortalidad infantil de 42% a 4%. Not just anyone lowers infant mortality rates from 42% to 4% No cualquiera forma más de 130 mil médicos, garantizando 1 médico por cada 130 personas, con el mayor indice de médicos per cápita del mundo. Not just anyone forms more than 130 million doctors, guaranteeing 1 doctor per 130 people, with the highest index of doctors per capita in the world No cualquiera crea la mayor Facultad de Médicina del Mundo, graduando1500 médicos extranjeros por año, con 25.000 médicos graduados de 84 naciones. Not just anyone created the main faculty of doctors in the world, graduating 1500 foreign doctors per year, with 25000 graduated doctors from 84 nations. No cualquiera envÃa más de 30 mil médicos a colaborar en más de 68 paises del mundo sumando cerca de 600.000 misiones. Not just anyone sends more than 30 mil doctors to collaborate in more than 68 countries around the world, adding up to around 600000 missions. No cualquiera logra ser la única nación latinoamericana sin desnutrición infantil. .... anyone succeeds in being the only Latin American nation without infant malnutrition. No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs latinoamericano sin problema de drogas. ... succeeds in being the only Latin American country without a drug problem No cualquiera logra 100% de escolarización. ... succeeds 100% of schooling (He achieved 100% school enrollment rates) No cualquiera puede circular en su pais sin ver un solo niño durmiendo en la calle. ... can travel around their country without seeing even one child sleeping in the streets No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs del mundo que cumple la sostenibilidad ecológica. ... succeeds in being the only country in the world that meets the ecological sustenaibility No cualquiera logra que su población tenga 79 años de esperanza de vida al nacer. ... that his population have 79 years of life expectancy after birth No cualquiera crea vacunas contra el Cáncer. ... creates vaccines against cancer No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs que erradica la transmisión madre-hijo del VIH. ... succeeds in being the only country that erradicated the transmission of HIV from mother to child No cualquiera logra tener la mayor cantidad de medallas olÃmpicas de Latinoamérica. ... to have the biggest amount of Olympic medals of Latin America No cualquiera sobrevive a más de 600 atentados contra su vida y a 11 presidentes norteamericanos intentando derrocarlo. ... survives more than 600 attempts against his life, and 11 north american presidents trying to overthrow him No cualquiera sobrevive a 50 años de bloqueo y guerra económica. ... survives a 50 year blockade and economic war No cualquiera llega a los 90 años, con tanto protagonismo en la historia mundial. ... gets to live to 99 years of age, with so much protagonism(? He was a main character is what i think he is trying to say) in the history of the world Querido por millones. Incomprendido por otros cuantos. Lo que no puede hacer nadie, es ignorarlo. Loved/Liked by millions, misunderstood by other few. What no one can do is ignore him. I translated the thing, the ... indicates just repeated shit over and over. Let me know how i did guys, if some of you happen to know spanish or if it makes more sense than google translate. But uh, some of those claims sound like total bs/totally exaggerated. I don't know much about cuba though so meh. I will take my leave. Edited December 1, 2016 by SlayerX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmy Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) Diego Maradona's letter https://m.facebook.com/DiegoMaradonaOficial/photos/pb.104346839616674.-2207520000.1480575022./1297328463651833/?type=3&theater I cannot find an English source translation article for this, but you guys can use google translate. Murió mi amigo, mi confidente, el que me aconsejó, el que me llamaba a cualquier hora para hablar de polÃtica, de fútbol, de béisbol, el que me dijo que cuando se fuese Clinton el que venÃa era peor, que fue Bush. Como no se equivocó nunca, para mà Fidel es, fue y será eterno, el único, el más grande. Me duele el corazón porque el mundo pierde al más sabio de todos. No cualquiera tumba una dictadura con 20 hombres desafÃando al Imperio norteamericano. No cualquiera elimina el analfabetismo en un año. No cualquiera baja la mortalidad infantil de 42% a 4%. No cualquiera forma más de 130 mil médicos, garantizando 1 médico por cada 130 personas, con el mayor indice de médicos per cápita del mundo. No cualquiera crea la mayor Facultad de Médicina del Mundo, graduando1500 médicos extranjeros por año, con 25.000 médicos graduados de 84 naciones. No cualquiera envÃa más de 30 mil médicos a colaborar en más de 68 paises del mundo sumando cerca de 600.000 misiones. No cualquiera logra ser la única nación latinoamericana sin desnutrición infantil. No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs latinoamericano sin problema de drogas. No cualquiera logra 100% de escolarización. No cualquiera puede circular en su pais sin ver un solo niño durmiendo en la calle. No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs del mundo que cumple la sostenibilidad ecológica. No cualquiera logra que su población tenga 79 años de esperanza de vida al nacer. No cualquiera crea vacunas contra el Cáncer. No cualquiera logra ser el único paÃs que erradica la transmisión madre-hijo del VIH. No cualquiera logra tener la mayor cantidad de medallas olÃmpicas de Latinoamérica. No cualquiera sobrevive a más de 600 atentados contra su vida y a 11 presidentes norteamericanos intentando derrocarlo. No cualquiera sobrevive a 50 años de bloqueo y guerra económica. No cualquiera llega a los 90 años, con tanto protagonismo en la historia mundial. Querido por millones. Incomprendido por otros cuantos. Lo que no puede hacer nadie, es ignorarlo. I have some experience translating articles, so let me try doing a translation. My friend has died, my confident, the one that advised me, the one that called me all the times to talk about politics, football , baseball, the one that told that once Clinton was gone, the next one would be worse, that was Bush. He never failed at that. For me, Fidel is, and was eternal, the unique one, the biggest one. It breaks my heart because the world has lost the wisest of all. - Not anyone can go against a dictatorship supported by the North American Empire with 20 men - Not anyone eliminates illiteracy in a year - Not anyone can take child mortality from 42% to 4% - Not anyone educates over 130.000 medics, guaranteeing 1 medic for each 130 persons, with the highest index of medics per capita in the world - Not anyone creates the biggest medicine faculty in the world, graduating over 1500 foreigners medics per year, with 25.000 medics graduated from 84 nations - Not anyone sends over 30.000 medics to collaborate in 68 countries around the world, adding close to 600.000 "misiones" - Not anyone achieves in being the only Latin American nation without child malnutrition - Not anyone achieves in being the only Latin American nation without drugs problems - Not anyone achieves in succeeding a 100% in general schooling - Not anyone makes a country without a single child sleeping on the streets - Not anyone achieves in being the only country in the world with ecologic sustainability - Not anyone achieves making a country with a life expectancy of 79 years - Not anyone makes vaccines against Cancer - Not anyone achieves in being the only country in the world that eradicated mother-son VIH - Not anyone succeeds at making the country the one with the highest amount of Olympic Medals in Latin America - Not anyone survives over 600 attempts against his life, with 11 North-American presidents against him to boot - Not anyone survives over 50 years of embargo and economic war - Not anyone reaches the age of 90 years, with such heroism in world's history Loved by millions, not understood by others, what anyone shouldn't do, is ignoring it That's the gist of it, I hope my translation did a job in making this easier to read for people who don't understand Spanish. Edited December 1, 2016 by Calmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 The childhood mortality claim is supect. I've read they simply don't count babies who die shortly after birth to make their childhood mortality numbers look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 "creates vaccines against cancer" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 "creates vaccines against cancer" lol It reminds me of North Korean claims about Kim Jung Il, like he never pooped or shot a dozen holes in one during his first game of golf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) Some sources:Cuba does indeed have a high literacy rate, according to UNESCO. There was a highly concentrated push to eliminate illiteracy in a year (1961).Child mortality rates are at 4% however, like Rezzy says, different countries have different methods of calculating infant mortality - one big example is that almost every country with the exception of the U.S. considers babies that die within 24 hrs to be stillborn. On the other hand, Cuba does also have a good child mortality rate (that link also has other information as to why Cuban mortality rates are so low - namely that women are pressured to abort if the fetus they are carrying is diagnosed with abnormalities).Yes, Cuba has a lot of doctors, and they do send a lot of doctors abroad. Apparently UNICEF did declare a 0% child malnutrition rate in Cuba, although I can't find any official press releases on it? WHO statistics do indicate a lack of underweight children in Cuba. However, I can think of a few reasons why these statistics may be ambiguous - for example, medically fragile children often have a difficult time gaining and maintaining weight, and as mentioned above, those children are more likely to have been aborted or have died shortly after birth in Cuba than in the U.S. Still, Cuba's rates appear to be far, far below those of many other countries.Without drugs problems is a dubious claim (is there any country at all where drugs don't play a part, even if it's a small part?); there is at least *some* drug smuggling in Cuba. Mainly, the government rarely chooses to report upon it... therefore denying it exists.Cuba does have a good standard of education. It's ranked pretty highly by any measure (that wiki link says, 'The 1998 study by UNESCO was particularly impressive, because for the first time all of the countries in the study had agreed on the indicators and procedures in advance.')Homelessness in Cuba is low seems to be a fact generally agreed upon; however, googling brought up several pages of either 'praise Cuba! There's zero homelessness!' or 'they rounded up and jailed all the homeless and shelters for the homeless are really terrible', so I can't find a decent source to link to. It does look as if housing costs are kept low, though. I like the ambiguity in this paragraph in an article on The Guardian: In Cuba, culture cannot be the reason for zero homelessness. In all other Latin countries, with similar cultures, homelessness is a grievous problem. I assume that Cuba's economic model keeps indigence to a minimum, and that a strong state response efficiently mops up any stragglers. Apparently Cuba does meet the requirements for global sustainable development. However, they are not the only country in the world. If you follow the links I posted for life expectancy above, there's some explanation as to why Cuba's life expectancy might be so high (again, the way child mortality data is collected probably plays a part). Vaccines against cancer - well, obviously you can't have a general 'vaccine against cancer'. And much of the world does have access to vaccines that can reduce certain types of cancer - the HPV and Hepatitis B vaccines, which are administered routinely in the U.S. in childhood, help prevent against the cancers caused by those viruses. Cuba ranks #14 at number of medals per capita in all-time Summer Olympics (they've never participated in the Winter Olympics). Their record is decent, but not exceptional. Castro definitely was a survivor; I don't think that's in doubt! Edited December 1, 2016 by Res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Does anyone here actually have a problem with the fact people are willing to name positives about Castro, or is it more the fact that some statements are not proportionate without the context of surrounding negativity? I get the feeling a lot of disagreement in this topic is over a lack of emphasis either way as opposed to anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmy Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 *Fixed some small mistakes, and maybe some incorrect "literal" translations from my part. Hope that wasn't too hard to read, I'm kinda new when it comes to translations so, yeah, did the best that I could in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Does anyone here actually have a problem with the fact people are willing to name positives about Castro, or is it more the fact that some statements are not proportionate without the context of surrounding negativity? I get the feeling a lot of disagreement in this topic is over a lack of emphasis either way as opposed to anything else. More the latter, rather. While Trump omits any of the positives that Castro did for Cuba, the fact that he was the only one to accurately name the oppression that Castro inflicted upon his people makes his statement the one I'd consider closest to being truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Does anyone here actually have a problem with the fact people are willing to name positives about Castro, or is it more the fact that some statements are not proportionate without the context of surrounding negativity? I get the feeling a lot of disagreement in this topic is over a lack of emphasis either way as opposed to anything else. I'd rather take both the good and the bad. This time, I feel that the bad outweighs the good. I suspect that if life is really that good in Cuba, then there shouldn't be people actively fleeing from there (and risking their life to do so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 are there numbers on how many are still leaving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for. Here's some Wikipedia background regarding the situation - no numbers, but context is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) "creates vaccines against cancer" lol http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cuba-medical-innovations_us_56ddfacfe4b03a4056799015 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/salim-lamrani/cubas-health-care-system-_b_5649968.html http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/cuba-health/508859/ Cuba ranks #14 at number of medals per capita in all-time Summer Olympics (they've never participated in the Winter Olympics). Their record is decent, but not exceptional.Maradona meant "in Latin America". It's still higher in rank compare to Brazil or Argentina. I'd rather take both the good and the bad. This time, I feel that the bad outweighs the good. I suspect that if life is really that good in Cuba, then there shouldn't be people actively fleeing from there (and risking their life to do so).I think people from US are more biased against him than non US people. US propaganda against Castro is more successful than those campaigns try to overthrow him. People leave Cuba for many reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba The U.S. Chamber of Commerce estimates that the embargo costs the U.S. economy $1.2 billion per year in lost sales and exports, while the Cuban government estimates that the embargo has cost the island itself $753.69 billion.And it is also easier for a Cuban to become a full American citizen than people from other countries. Edited December 2, 2016 by hanhnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cuba-medical-innovations_us_56ddfacfe4b03a4056799015http://www.huffingtonpost.com/salim-lamrani/cubas-health-care-system-_b_5649968.html Maradona meant "in Latin America".It's still higher in rank compare to Brazil or Argentina. I think people from US are more biased against him than non US people.US propaganda against Castro is more successful than those campaigns try to overthrow him.Honestly, as a Brazilian I absolutely doubt life in Cuba is better than life here even for a poor person.Our basic income welfare program is more than most cubans get. The cuban wage is 20 dollars a month. And that's without taking in acount the absolutely trivial stuff that does make life better and cubans don't have, like easy acess to the internet, cellphones and the like. Cuba also has frequent shortages, which are not the fault of the embargo, but rather an economic system that does not work And then you have the fact that cuba is undeniably a dictatorship, without free elections, without free press, where people can't protest or pick their leaders. Also ffs, Maradona is a soccer player, not a political scientist or an economist. If the matter was about wherter or not Fidel was good at soccer then his opinion would be worth anything, but i don't see why maradona, a friend of the dictator, saying the dictator was good means anything. Edited December 2, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cuba-medical-innovations_us_56ddfacfe4b03a4056799015 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/salim-lamrani/cubas-health-care-system-_b_5649968.html http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/cuba-health/508859/ Can you link to scientific studies or literature that talk about this? I don't trust mainstream media or media outlets when it comes to things like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) And honestly, do you guys know why cuba has such "good" medicine and education? Because doctors and teachers are simply underpaid. A doctor in Cuba get's way less than a doctor in most other normal countries. People there can't start strikes, people there can't bargain for better salaries. They just work for whatever price the government was willing to pay them and that's it. They have a lot of doctors because the government can (under)pay a lot of doctors because they barely make any money. Now, imagine going through all the studies and hard work a doctor goes through to make a miserable amount of money? That's how it is in Cuba. If the government of the USA or the UK, or France, or Australia, or Brazil, or Argentina prevented doctors from working elsewhere, imposed an extremely low salary to them (say, five hundred dollars a month -probably more than a cuban doctor makes), had an extremely authoritarian regimen that oppressed anyone who tried to fight it, then they'd also be able to hire a lot of doctors. Edited December 2, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) Can you link to scientific studies or literature that talk about this? I don't trust mainstream media or media outlets when it comes to things like this.I'm not a medical expert. Since the mainstream media is mostly against him and his regime, this is enough for me. And honestly, do you guys know why cuba has such "good" medicine and education? Because doctors and teachers are simply underpaid. A doctor in Cuba get's way less than a doctor in most other normal countries. People there can't start strikes, people there can't bargain for better salaries. They just work for whatever price the government was willing to pay them and that's it. They have a lot of doctors because the government can (under)pay a lot of doctors because they barely make any money. Now, imagine going through all the studies and hard work a doctor goes through to make a miserable amount of money? That's how it is in Cuba. If the government of the USA or the UK, or France, or Australia, or Brazil, or Argentina prevented doctors from working elsewhere, imposed an extremely low salary to them (say, five hundred dollars a month -probably more than a cuban doctor makes), had an extremely authoritarian regimen that oppressed anyone who tried to fight it, then they'd also be able to hire a lot of doctors. I think you are overreacted. Isn't it the same in US or UK that the Mexican or Polish can earn much more money for the same job they do back home? Also ffs, Maradona is a soccer player, not a political scientist or an economist. If the matter was about wherter or not Fidel was good at soccer then his opinion would be worth anything, but i don't see why maradona, a friend of the dictator, saying the dictator was good means anything.Is that a problem? Can't you stand with someone doesn't share your opinion? Edited December 2, 2016 by hanhnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I'm not a medical expert.Since the mainstream media is mostly against him and his regime, this is enough for me.I think you are overreacted.Isn't it the same in US or UK that the Mexican or Polish can earn much more money for the same job they do back home? I'm not an expert, per se, but I am a doctor and have a background in medicine. As Lord Raven said, I'd want to see any medical claims published in a medical journal. Huffington Post may be good for seeing what the left thinks on political issues, but should not be taken as the sole source for anything medically related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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