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Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War 2017 Tier List - Day 39: The support kids (Corple, Lene, Sharlow and Laylea)


OliKad
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On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 5:45 AM, OliKad said:


If I don't update them by the 16th at noon (in my timezone, at least) then very violently remind me to stop being a lazy fuck, okay? Thank you :)

It's the 20th. I'll be sending a level 30 Narga!Julia to you ready to knock some sense into you. In case you fell asleep, she has a restore staff too.  A man who doesn't like Delmud can't be kept waiting forever to rant about him!

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I am alive but dead inside 

Okay, let's just say that it is now the time to discuss the son and daughter of the Eldigan's lov- *ahem* I mean, the childs of Raquesis, I named Delmud and Nanna.

Oh, and the scrubby subs too, I guess...

 

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Dairmuid is pretty good but sufferes from the same problems as Oifey of being fairly redundant. Charisma is always nice though 7/10

Nanna is pretty sweet and actually quite useful as a mounted staff user in the later part of Gen 2. I'll give her a 7.5/10.

Tristan has a few problems but he is workable. He has all the problems of Dairmuid though and lacks Charisma. 5/10.

Jeanne serves mostly the same role as Nanna but she can't fight very well and she lacks Charisma. 6/10

Edited by Valkama
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Nanna - Her father will more than likely fuck over her magic stat. That said, she's a troubadour. She is arguably a more useful healer than even Anal Lana due to being on a horse, which, as has been covered in nearly every conversation in this thread, is possibly the most important thing for a unit to have in FE4. However, she shines more as a physical unit and can become a monster. Her only real limit tends to be the moderate Paladin caps, which is unfortunate, but not gamebreaking. Plus, her mother being who she is, gives her basically infinite possibilities for sword and staves to inherit. This can make Nanna a very, very good unit under the right situations. Lana will likely have more long term use as a healer, but Nanna can get some healing in on the frontlines in a pinch. She's a solid 8.5/10.

Dairmuid - Despite almost always outclassing his sister in strength and defense when it comes to bases and growths, the Forrest Knight's awful caps end up making this meaningless in the end, and if you decide to pair up Lachesis with any of her non-physical partners, he really suffers, while Nanna mostly benefits. Plus, his inheritance is a lot more limited, as his father has to be a swordie, due to Dairmuid being completely sword locked. Overall, he has a large chance of being pretty mediocre. He has a chance to be good, but his class does him little favors if he does, and you're typically better trying to get a better Nanna when planning a lover for Lachesis. But he's a second gen kid and he's on a horse. So he's still like, a 7/10.

Jeanne - Has awful stats, and only functions as a healbot on a horse. Which is admittedly pretty useful, but she lacks nearly all of Nanna's versatility. She'll die quickly if you try to get her too far out there, though, so it's a constant consideration that holds her back. 5/10

Tristan - Just awful. Unless you're doing a sub-only challenge run, this guy has very little use. He is tied to a class with fairly bad bases and caps, he doesn't even get Pursuit to take advantage of the ONE stat Forrest/Free Knights have over any other mounted class, his growths are awful, and his access to good swords is limited. He's only "good" if the only thing you think a unit needs to be "good" is a horse. He's barely a step above Deimne, and that motherfucker can't even counter attack on enemy phases. Tristan can counter, but he's not going to kill shit on those rounds. He's just going to get stuck in the middle of an enemy party that he wasn't invited to. 3.5-0.5 for having to argue with somebody earlier, making me hate him more. 3/10.

Edited by Slumber
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DELMUD'S TIME HAS COME

AND SO HAVE I

 

really though jokes aside I -love- Delmud and his stupid ugly haircut. Bad caps? Ok, his str is pretty lame at 23, and defense isn't great either, but strength can be compensated with a Silver Blade! Which he can use right out the gate due to Hezul blood, on turn 2 of chapter 6. The Forrest/Ranger is literally a swordmaster on a horse: it gets Continue, it has a stupid high speed and skill cap, and for what? 4 measly points of strength? In exchange for a mount that is an incredible trade. Now yes, Delmud with the wrong dad can be totally garbage, and that low str cap IS hurt by the fact he's basically wasting his Hezul blood upon promotion, but you know what? 

c9b8200d46.png

The stats don't lie. With the right dad Delmud is an ace of most stats and a str ring or a high damage weapon compensates for that piddly 23 cap. Now if only he could do something about looking like Jerid from Zeta Gundam. 9/10.

jerid-messa-12951.jpg?t=1485726844

 

Nanna is a mounted healer. She comes a full chapter later than Ethlyn did but is essential for letting Leif level up on Alster's armor reinforcements. She's basically stuck there for chapter 7, but after that she's as every bit as versatile as a troubador can be. Bad promotion but at least she can use Relives to compensate for her low magic, and with the right dad Nanna can fight semi-decently as well. 8/10, there isn't much to her and she's less available than other healers but dependability can never be looked down on.

 

Tristan.... egh. G2's subs have this annoying habit of being "G1 character but worse", and Tristan is basically Noish in that regard. He can get crits but has no way of doubling or even dueling, but given its G2 you should have access to a hero sword you can drop off on him early on to overcome that. However, hero swords are a valuable item, and being dependent on a specific weapon others might want to use as well isn't a great point in your favor. Still he's mounted and can land crits if rarely, so he's not worthless. 4/10.

Janne is Nanna but should never ever actually fight. This puts more pressure on Leif and Finn in chapter 7, and no inheritence means you're stuck packing a bloody live staff until you can get her to Melgen, but she's lightyears ahead of Miurane at least due to being mounted and thus having long range AND the ability to retreat. 6/10.

 

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Nanna

A troubadour who's a better combat unit than healer actually because of her high strength and low magic. However mend and recover staves can fix it to make her a great healar too. Also charisma is really nice.

8.5

 

Delmud

Umm... in my first run he turned out godly... and in my second run he became absolute trash. He even failed to double. (I guess Beowulf is still the better dad than Alec)

I think he's alright, but far away from being great. He has pursuit but is locked on swords. Furthermore his strength cap is garbage. All in all only a slightly better version of Noish... just because of pursuit and charisma.

6

 

Edited by Magillanica Lou Mayvin
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Delmud is basically Oifaye+ unless you do a shit pairing.  Charisma is useful, as is his horse and above average combat.  I think I gave Oifaye 7 or something so i'll give Delmud 7.5.

Nanna is basically Ethlin with Charisma, her combat is probably better but she's still not the greatest fighter.  Sadly being a mounted healer isn't that big of a deal in gen 2 (compared to gen 1 anyway) so her value is diminished.  Charisma's still really useful though, so she'll get a 6.

Tristan is servicable if given some resources, (the pursuit ring isn't very contested in subs runs, Femina can make do with the hero lance and has worse stats anyway, and Amid is a lower priority for it) and failing that he can take a spare hero sword.  He breaks the subs mold and comes with an actual useful skill (critical) and his bases are actually very good, to compensate for his gen1ish growths (except for his massive HP).  Bad in his join map though due to basically not having a weapon for the important part of the map.  Basically an average unit, so he'll get the average score of 5/10.

Janne is Nanna with less sword rank (doesn't matter) and no skills, (matters a lot more).  Thanks to having no skills, her combat suffers a bit since she can't gain money as easily in the arena, but she doesn't really need very much in the first place since she doesn't have to buy a whole lot, and she can scoop up money by Lenster in her join map anyway.  I'll give her a 5/10 as well, since her and Nanna function basically the same.

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Delmud is generally pretty good, you have to go out of your way to make him a chump. His strength is pretty hard to screw and he's content with Pursuit from his dad. He's essentially Noish and Alec if they decided to combine their useful traits into one unit. His only real flaw is that he doesn't have a super broken weapon locked to him. Also charisma bot so good

7.5/10

Nanna is also pretty swanky, although Troubadour bases are lame so she can't quite fight as well as her bro and she comes a little later. There are way more staff users to contend with, but Nanna generally functions well and charisma is always a bonus. 

6/10

Tristan is still way scrubbier than Delmud but having Critical, early availability and a decent class kinda salvage him. With the pursuit ring, he essentially becomes a second Oifaye except he really needs a lot of investment to get going. He's not amazing, but he's one of the more salvageable subs.

4.5/10

Janne is always going to be worse than Nanna. Mounted horse healer is all well and good, but C staves doesn't really do her any favours. She's essentially a slightly more flexible Mana, but without the possibility for utility later on.

4/10

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Delmud trades a str cap for some worthless points in skl and spd. I've always had the impression Delmud lacks on the attack power front. Charisma is nice. 6.5/10

The best version of Nanna is fathered by Azel. The magic sword game is strong and she has the caps and growths to orko all the mooks. Her staff use is less vital than Ethlin's was, but still valuable. Charisma is good. 7/10

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Delmud 6.5

I've come to prefer Azel!Delmud over Beo!Delmud recently. Being able to hit with Magic Swords allows him to work around his low str cap which is specifically useful in endgame and a more reliable thing to bank on than the Charge Skill he inherits from Beowulf [Continue is way better and Delmud gets it upon promotion regardless of his father]. Beo!Delmud grows faster but the solid Magic Growth rate he inherits from Azel is his only hope of ever surpassing Oifaye who's otherwise strictly better in the first half of gen 2 and then equally good in the second half [if not still better because of Critical Skill and +1 on str cap]. Charisma is nice to have but it only really becomes a big deal if it stacks with other bonuses like lover, sibling, leadership. Overall he's very solid all-around, it's just that by the time he becomes a real powerhouse [which is basically right after promoting] he'll still be outclassed by a number of units that quickly outgrow him - Leaf, Aless, Levin!Arthur, ... you name it. And if you need "auxiliary units" to fulfill secondary tasks you'll still have units like Fin, Fee and Oifaye who can do basically the same things as Delmud but take less investments than him. He'll still reliably fulfill whatever back-up stuff you need somebody for.

Tristan 4.5

He's quite alright for a substitute unit and comes with Critical - one of the best skills to have in gen 2. Without Pursuit though you really want him to have that 50kill Hero Sword asap if you actually want to get the most out of him - it's kind of worth it in a way because Tristan actually has some fairly decent endgame potential with Critical, potential access to the Pursuit Ring and some serious bulk [look at that HP growth!]. I don't think post-promotion Tristan is really worse than some of your regular units, in fact he quickly becomes more useful than some of your other dudes, especially footlocked combat units. It's just kind of a pain in the dong to get him there because he doesn't get to kill a lot in Ch.6 and Magic users in Ch.7 are dangerous as well. It's best to feed him some civilians in Ch.8 to get him ready for promotion in Ch.9. After that the difference to Delmud will actually be somewhat negligable because the tasks you'd use Delmud for Tristan will be able to perform as well.

Nanna 9

She's my favorite gen 2 unit. A basically unscrewable, jack-of-all-trade unit that takes no investment to be useful right off the bat? Ethlin 2.0 with sibling support for Delmud, easily accessible lover support for Leaf, Charisma support for everybody and staffbot utility? With better availability and actually being a very competent fighter on top of that? I'll almost always have her be part of a RescueDance setup with Celice, Leaf and Leen because I can always use her for something - massive support for Leaf, minor support for the others, healing if needed, return staff ... no complaints here.

Janne 5

Being a mounted staffbot makes it impossible for her to not be at least average even though she's honestly nothing more than an all-around gimped version of Nanna. Though she can still provide lover bonuses to Leaf quite easily, she lacks charisma to support other units and instead of Delmud it's Tristan she's giving sibling bonuses too - meh. Being unable to inherit things, especially staves, is another big hit and on top of that she's never actually any good at fighting. So where Nanna is a strictly improved version of Ethlin [though under much easier conditions], Janne is Ethlin reduced to the absolute basics - mounted staffboting. Nothing more, nothing less. Unlike Horace I personally still think that's a fairly important task to fulfill in gen 2 as there aren't any other units who can take care of that: Fee and Leaf are always busy elsewhere. The Return Staff is also quite important for Celice and your Dancer to get swapped around at a castle for maximum efficiency and, again, I don't know who else besides Janne would do that in Nanna's absence.

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Delmud: What Beowulf always wanted to be: useful. Still not too useful compared to others, but he holds his own. Charisma helps a lot, too. 7.5/10

Nanna: Not as useful as Ethlyn was in the previous generation, but having a mounted healer around is always helpful. Decent combat, too. 6/10, +.5 bias because I like Nanna. 6.5/10

Tristan: Underrated unit, in my opinion. If you want him to really function, all he really needs is the hero sword, which you'll have two of in Gen II. And considering that no one else really cares for it, he can make good use of it in conjunction with Critical. He's honestly one of the better subs. Worse than Delmud (duh) and Oifaye for sure, but he's not terrible. 5.5/10

Janne: A worse Nanna, but she's still a mounted staffbot. 3.5/10

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Delmud is going to be your extra horseman that can break things. His low Strength cap is bad for his high Strength growth. His promotion gains in Skill and Speed are really helpful. 8/10

Nanna is a mounted healer that can do chipping damage. 7/10

They're best parents for top potential are Beowulf, Azel, Alec, and Finn.


Tristan is best described as a unit that's existence is to make you like Noish more. He does have the ability to hold the Brave Sword, but why would you do such a thing for this scrub? 1.5/10

Jeanne is Mana on a horse. That's it. 2/10

 

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Goddamn my lad. What chapter is this on? That's probably the best looking Alec I've seen (I wish I kept a savestate of my G1 chars on my last FE4 run reeee).

 

Also mfw no love for Finn!Delmud

Prayer is love, and so is that absurd Luck growth. 

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Delmud has always been thoroughly mediocre for me. He has good availability, I suppose, arriving very early on, but he never can really do much. He starts with an iron sword and inheritance, if his dad happens to be Beowulf or another sword user. If dad happens to be Fin or any other not-sword user, bye-bye any sense of early usability. For skills, Delmud will always have his mother's Charisma, and combined with his horse, he can serve a decent non-combat role buffing his allies. When it comes to combat, he tends to be rather mediocre. You can give him a Silver Blade to help fix that and let him go nuts against Ch6 bandits, but once enemies get out of negative avoid territory, he'll start having problems with it until he promotes and gets a crazy +9 skill. Sure, he mightn't be bad promoted, but you've got plenty of other competent mounts already. Do you really need him?

I guess he has Charisma? He never gets truly great. 5 -0.5 bias since I do not like him for a 4.5/10. First playthrough I sacrificed Delmud to the Dark Warlords to help rig the RNG to aid Sety in dodging the Hel mage. The next run he got skill-screwed. Badly. -7 skill anyone?

PI5VE50.png

As for his sister, she's a more useful unit than chumpy Delmud, but that's not exactly tough to match. Nanna comes at the start of Chapter 7, stuck with her husband-to-be and her father Leaf and Fin defending Lenster Castle against a huge horde of eight units. Nanna brings mounted healing to the table here, and if she inherits Return you can just ignore the whole "defend Lenster" thing and bring the entire party back to base. Whatever skills Delmud has, Nanna will also have, what with them being siblings and all that. Having two mounted charismabots are better then having one, and this bot can heal... not very much. Nanna tends to start with around three magic or so. Rather underwhelming. At least she can heal, if not by very much. Promotion doesn't improve staff rank and just gives a useless lance rank, so she isn't using anything better than Mend ever. Still, 26 HP with 8 move isn't bad. Her combat is alright, though not excellent by any means. Talking to Fin in Ch7 does give her five speed if he's actually dad this time around.  She isn't a master knight like her mother, but she can marry a master knight. That's close enough, right? Right? Funny thing is that would actually work in FE14.

Nanna has a horse and staff access. That's always nice. Charisma helps too. 7/10.
 I believe that their father is Beowulf and/or Fin.

Edited by Darrman
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Delmund is pretty great , but only if he has pursuit. 7.5/10 with +0.5 bias

Nanna is a mounted healer with a pretty great offensive presence if she promotes. 8/10 with +0.5 bias

Tristan and Jeanne are both average units that are boring, 5/10 for both.

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:08 PM, Peppy said:

Lana gets 7.5/10 for good staff utility out of the box (especially good with Warp and whatnot). Not!Lex gets 4.5/10 for having a mount but not really having decent enough stats to be doing anything special.

lol I have never seen the resemblance between Lester and Lex before. I still think that if anything Midir or Jamke is Edain's canon pairing(Lex's is probably Tailtiu)

But that's not what we are here to discuss. Lana is a pretty great early game healer as she almost always ends up good stat-wise no matter her father, comes with great staves if you passed them down but constantly trails behind due to very poor move in the game where that is most important. 5/10 with 0.5+ bias.

Lester is really only good with Midir as his father, but if this happens he is pretty great. Also he is mounted 7/10 no bias.

Mana gets 3/10 Dinma gets a 3/10

I also missed Ayra's kids so if it isn't too late...

Larcei is amazing. 8/10

Ulster is Larcei Light 7.5/10

The subs get 2/10

This never posted for some reason.

Edited by 1japanfan
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Dermott is stuck with Swordlock and a lack of Pursuit with the wrong father but at least has mount utility. 6/10

Nanna is a mounted healer so she can do wonders with Return and the basic heal staves. 7.5/10

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12 hours ago, CappnRob said:

Goddamn my lad. What chapter is this on? That's probably the best looking Alec I've seen (I wish I kept a savestate of my G1 chars on my last FE4 run reeee).

 

Also mfw no love for Finn!Delmud

Prayer is love, and so is that absurd Luck growth. 

At the start of Chapter 5

Also, check this out to see him in action: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123808445

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This time we move onto two siblings that didn't know each other as kids, and who also get involved in Thracia 776.

Spoiler

For these two, their role in combat is pretty similar, using swords to deal damage against their opponent, and either get into a good position for enemy phase or pull back if they're too injured to risk or can't adequately respond in the enemy phase. For Nanna/Janne, being able to use staves is very useful for keeping the units in front alive, even if they're limited in what they can use for healing, despite their attack not being amazing initially.

Nanna and Delmud have Charisma, allowing them to give support to anyone in range and gives a non-combat utility. One thing they'll want is Pursuit, because unlike Lachesis, they don't get it on promotion. Nanna can pretty effectively attack with swords and heal allies, and on promotion can use lances, much as they're not too relevant in practice. Delmud is quite dependant on his dad, as without their father in mind, he'll only have Continue for multiple hits on promotion, so a dad who helps with this is useful. Beowolf gives both of them Pursuit and Charge to greatly increase their offence, gives them growths that boost their HP, much as they don't give as much to their speed and avoid and passes swords to Delmud. Fin gives Pursuit and Prayer for skills which are helpful for the usual reasons and his growths give pretty even improvements to the kids, but he needs to kill bosses so he can pass swords, and he won't have his lances when G2 starts. Alec is like Fin, but he gives Awareness instead of Prayer, less Luck and can pass swords down without killing the Chapter 3 bosses. Lex makes the two tanky, with great HP and defence, Vantage for if they've been beaten down a bit on HP and Elite to level them up quickly... but their speed and skill won't be great, inheritance of swords is even harder for him to work with and they get no skills for multiple hits, and so they're limited in combat anyway. Azel gives Pursuit as a skill (even only that is useful), and can pass up to B rank swords and possibly the Silver Blade, but the boosts to speed and magic both help with avoidance and attacking with magic swords, which no other parent can do for these kids. Unfortunately, his defence and skill are both worryingly low for these two

For inheritance, Nanna would like some swords (Lachesis does have the Prayer, Earth and Thief sword without too much effort), the Return Staff and Ring if you're running away from Lenster and staves like Libro and possibly a status staff if Claude's her dad. As for other rings, a Shield ring can help with her surviving against the lances in Lenster from early on. Delmud would like swords like the silver Blade to help his offence, possibly a magic sword, and in terms of rings a Power Ring would be lovely for him. Nanna can also get a +5 speed boost from Fin if he's her dad right away, much as she'd prefer to get a magic boost.

The substitutes are pretty disappointing, but at least they're mounted and can retreat after doing a single hit. Tristan has a great HP growth, but his other growths are pretty poor. He has Critical to potentially wipe enemies out, but despite this he's essentially a Noish without Charge or lances and decent chances of being a HP sponge. Janne's growths are a mediocre, barring her high Skill and no skills, so her best role is as a mobile staffbot. Tristan does get an event to boost his pretty low speed and boosts his strength and defence as well, while Janne shares an event with Femina to get a defence boost from Shanam.

Diarmuid/Delmud gets a 6.5/10. He is pretty skill reliant, but at his best he'll be a strong offensive unit who will be effective at defeating the mobs you'll be charging at. (Negative bias because it's quite likely he'll be stuck to one attack before promotion)

Nanna gets a 7/10. At her worst she's still a staffbot with Charisma on a horse, but she can be great at that and still be an effective fighter. She'll still be better in Thracia 776. :P

Tristan gets a 3.5/10. His best chance is to get a Brave Sword and Pursuit Ring, but there are quite a few others who would be interested before him. Otherwise, he's essentially a pursuitless Delmud but his growths are poorer.

Janne gets a 3.5/10. She might not be as effective as Nanna at combat and be lacking Charisma, but being a mounted staffbot is still useful.

Edited by Dayni
Mistakes
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9 hours ago, Peppy said:

Dermott is stuck with Swordlock [...]

The only weapon type that's strictly better than Swords is Wind Magic and even then Swords are still at least one level above the next best Weapon Type [which would probably be Thunder Magic]. Delmud being swordlocked is as much of an issue as unpromoted Levin being locked to Wind Magic - none at all.

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For the record, a promoted Azel has B rank swords! Mage Knights have B rank swords, its mage fighters/warmages that only have C rank (but they also gain B rank staves).

Also Finn losing his lances in G2 is barely an issue tbh. Unless you underleveled him, he'll still be significantly higher than Leif or Nanna/Janne, roughly the level 15 range if not just promoted outright as a Duke Knight. The lack of a javelin in chapter 7 is a bit irritating because he can't attack at range, but otherwise he does perfectly well with an iron lance for helping Leif and Nanna/Janne fight off the Alster knights, and he can always buy things back before the chapter ends  (or at the start of the next chapter).

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1 hour ago, CappnRob said:

For the record, a promoted Azel has B rank swords! Mage Knights have B rank swords, its mage fighters/warmages that only have C rank (but they also gain B rank staves).

Also Finn losing his lances in G2 is barely an issue tbh. Unless you underleveled him, he'll still be significantly higher than Leif or Nanna/Janne, roughly the level 15 range if not just promoted outright as a Duke Knight. The lack of a javelin in chapter 7 is a bit irritating because he can't attack at range, but otherwise he does perfectly well with an iron lance for helping Leif and Nanna/Janne fight off the Alster knights, and he can always buy things back before the chapter ends  (or at the start of the next chapter).

True, a levelled up Fin will do fine anyway. I felt that Finn losing his equipment is relevant partly for those Fins who are undelevelled, and partly because you'll have to find those items again. 

Also, well shoot I've been utterly mistaken on Mage Knights, my bad.

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Oh yeah, huh? Amid becomes a war mage too and his ranks are different, pffft.

Also you won't lose any of Finn's stuff if you just dump it on Fury so Fee can inherit it, save for the silver lance - and only Cuan can pass that down, and you're better off not because buying one from the vendor on chapter 9 comes sooner than recruiting Altena.

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Unless Delmud's dad is Beowulf, it is important that his father get the Chagall kill in Chapter 3 to gather the Silver Blade from him, and then never let it go. This is easy if Finn is his father because he is leaving at the end of the chapter anyway. In my experience playing Genealogy I have paired Lachesis with three different dads, and they are the only dads necessary to discuss here: Azel, Finn, and Beowulf. All three fathers net Pursuit which both kids greatly need. The kind of Delmud you want depends on his father, but he's best with Finn or Beowulf due to having better Strength (although Hezul will give him that no matter what). Azel allows him to use Magic Swords to some degree of success, but several of the Generation 2 children also use Magic Swords well, so there may be some competition there (Arthur, Tinny, Seliph, Fee, etc.). Overall Delmud is one of your better units once he gets going especially if he has that Silver Blade.

Nanna is a mounted healer who can actually fight back. Finn and Azel make her the best, especially Azel, since she will actually have a decent Magic stat. Once Leif promotes the two of them can run around the map on their pretty little ponies and destroy everything with the POWER OF LOVE. A great candidate for a Magic Sword as well, Nanna really doesn't need much to get going. She starts with Relive as a staff which nets good EXP and will get any other C-rank Staves from Lachesis as well as whatever swords she was carrying (which, due to Hezul, is helpful for sure). Keep Prayer Sword on her unless Finn is her father or give her one of the Magic Swords.

 

Delmud gets a 7.5/10 from me, and Nanna gets a 8.5/10 from me.

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